*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[electrosoft]

8 hours ago, cylix said:

 

Nice, i need to tune my ram aswell still working expo at 6000 cl32.. Didnt buildzoid said that 2033 was the best on AM5?

Or was that a bug at the beginnig.

 

After i installed win 11 i found the best config for the 7950x3d chip, so in bios prefer frequency instead of v-cache, then in windows stay on balance mode and turn the crap game mode off and game bar aswell.

Use process lasso and  for Games use CPU Sets to v-cache, everything else leave it alone. Works wonders and love Process Lasso. Getting a little more fps in games like cyberpunk, but especially the lows are so high as before on the 7900x, its so smooth and the cpu is only consuming 60w ..Its crazy how efficient is this cpu, and with the honeywell pad it only goes to 50 Celsius.

 

Now i need to play with PBO and Ram, if i have time..

 

 

 

All things being equal, pushing fclk gives you more bandwidth unless it compromises desired voltages or timings/performance.

 

For example, I can push it to 2167 but performance suffered so you know you're running that red line of errorville.  2133 was the same as 2100 so again I knew I was still in that no returns / redline area. I saw gains stepping 2000->2033->2066->2100.  Once primaries were dialed in they were good to go 2000-2100.

 

Hopefully the 7950X3D can be pushed a bit more but I do know these m-die's have hit a wall but I'm not sure how much more I could extract with a newer set of A-dies. Knowing me, I'll end up picking up a set and pushing those just to see to remove DDR5 limitations as the culprit inside of the AMD ~6000 (Sweet spot) to ~6600 window (fingers crossed). I've seen some fclk's pushed to 2200 with great results.

 

I'll definitely be sticking with SR modules to avoid and headaches.

 

I don't agree with everything Buildzoid presented but his DDR5 tuning videos are fun to watch.

 

I'll definitely keep your groundwork for 7950X3D in mind as I plan on benching my 12900k (which I've optimized to death over the last year+) vs 7800X3D vs 7950X3D (as AMD intended) vs 7950X3D CCD off vs Lasso to see if all roads for my use cases lead to the same valley.

 

Once I finish up terts I'll move onto PBO.

 

I know I'm having a blast with AMD so far. No USB issues so we're already starting out good.🙂

 

 

 

 

[ryan]

@Mr. Fox I deeply apologize but I simply don't have the money to buy your nuc. I want it and if its available in a month ill keep my eye on it. But i have to tell you in advance. Sorry bro 😞

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, cylix said:

 

 

Two useless extra fans at the cost of no dual vbios switch.... Yeah, that's real stupid. 

4 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, that's real stupid. 

 

[Etern4l]

9 hours ago, cylix said:

Its crazy how efficient is this cpu, and with the honeywell pad it only goes to 50 Celsius.

 

Now i need to play with PBO and Ram, if i have time..

 

 

 

50C in CB23? Edit: Nm, it's the 7800X3D, 8 cores, so plausible. 

 

BTW AIDA read throughput looks a bit low for 6000. What gives? AFAIR my slow 5600@5200 modules push more (in AIDA, about 65GBps in other benchmarks), despite higher latency. Is that an AMD+AIDA thing?

[Mr. Fox]

  

30 minutes ago, ryan said:

@Mr. Fox I deeply apologize but I simply don't have the money to buy your nuc. I want it and if its available in a month ill keep my eye on it. But i have to tell you in advance. Sorry bro 😞

I am not offering it for sale anywhere else, so if you still want it and want to save up the money that is fine. It'll collect some dust, but it won't hurt it to sit. 

  

On 4/18/2023 at 10:48 PM, tps3443 said:

This motherboard is SICK!!! 

Asus auto voltages and LLC are always tuned so WELL!!! Stock right out of the box, no adjustment at all. I run Cinebench and my 13900KS hits 287 watts max. That’s simply amazing! This is an SP104 chip. 

 

 

The Z690 Apex (thank you for selling it to me) is working fine now that I downgraded the BIOS to v2204. The newest (2305) was trash on the Strix and that proved to be true on the Apex as well. Unexplainable random BSOD and Windows lockups on both machines using identical BIOS setting or running with BIOS defaults. Instantly fixed by going back to v2204.

 

It is really sad and unfortunate that ASUS is blocking firmware downgrades and making customers have to jump through hoops to use the firmware they want to use. That's a really messed up approach to a company masquerading as enthusiast-centric. Their behavior proves otherwise.

 

What is not working fine is the memory overclocking. The Hynix M-die modules I am using ran like at top at 6800 and 7000 on both the Unify-X and Dark. When I put it in the Strix it maxed out at 6400. The maximum supported memory clock on the Strix is DDR5-6400. I assumed that, along with being a 4-DIMM setup, was why. Now I am thinking that was wrong because it maxes out at 6400 stable on the Apex as well. It will boot and run at 6800, but very unstable (was the same on the Strix) to the point of being unusable.

 

So, I'm going to test using the A-die in the Dark to see if it is the memory has degraded somehow. I can't use the memory waterblock I had on the Strix because it is a 4-slot waterblock and the DIMM.2 slot is too close to the memory slots... almost touching. I'm not sure if the 2-slot waterblock will even work. Very stupid that ASUS put them so close together like they did. At 6400 all memory tests pass unless I let them run long enough for the memory to overheat and the system reboots. Running MemTestPro with the DangWang GUI the memory reaches ~70°C and the system reboots. The memory also requires more voltage at 6400 than it did in the Unify-X or Dark. I assumed that was the Strix having weaker memory traces, but the same is true on the Apex. That part is not helping with the high temperatures (which I why I put the waterblock on to begin with).

[cylix]

16 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Two useless extra fans at the cost of no dual vbios switch.... Yeah, that's real stupid. 

 

Yeah crazy that dual bios feature is missing but they put so much care building it nice with those pads on the backplate for extra cooling.

[cylix]

33 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

50C in CB23? Edit: Nm, it's the 7800X3D, 8 cores, so plausible. 

 

BTW AIDA read throughput looks a bit low for 6000. What gives? AFAIR my slow 5600@5200 modules push more (in AIDA, about 65GBps in other benchmarks), despite higher latency. Is that an AMD+AIDA thing?

 A no, in gaming, Cyberpunk 2077 with the 7950x3d. In CB23 it settled around 79-80, that honeywell pad is gold!

 

@electrosoftNice infos, thanks. I eagerly await your findings and what you can squeeze  out of the x3d chips. I think in the end you will have a home for the 7950x3d😁. Lovely chip and for a tinker like yourself is a dream come true 😄. The fact that is so well made for gaming but you also can use it for a power productivity build with the help of Process Lasso is awesome.

 

Sry for the double post 😄

[electrosoft]

30 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

50C in CB23? Edit: Nm, it's the 7800X3D, 8 cores, so plausible. 

 

BTW AIDA read throughput looks a bit low for 6000. What gives? AFAIR my slow 5600@5200 modules push more (in AIDA, about 65GBps in other benchmarks), despite higher latency. Is that an AMD+AIDA thing?

 

Yep, it's an AMD thing. Even AM4 had higher latency and lower overall bandwidth vs Intel 10th and 11th but the end performance was all that mattered.

 

 

[cylix]

💩💩💩

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

50C in CB23? Edit: Nm, it's the 7800X3D, 8 cores, so plausible. 

 

BTW AIDA read throughput looks a bit low for 6000. What gives? AFAIR my slow 5600@5200 modules push more (in AIDA, about 65GBps in other benchmarks), despite higher latency. Is that an AMD+AIDA thing?

  

28 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Yep, it's an AMD thing. Even AM4 had higher latency and lower overall bandwidth vs Intel 10th and 11th but the end performance was all that mattered.

Very true. Memory performance on  the 5950X was pathetic. And the plethora of WHEA errors, USB drop-outs and insane runaway thermals at modest overclock speeds were also  pretty disgusting. It was one of  the worst buying decisions I have made.

[Reciever]

2 hours ago, ryan said:

@Mr. Fox I deeply apologize but I simply don't have the money to buy your nuc. I want it and if its available in a month ill keep my eye on it. But i have to tell you in advance. Sorry bro 😞

Take that to PM. 

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, cylix said:

💩💩💩

 

Yep, Nvidia destroyed the xx70 SKU this gen. So yet another no go. Previous gen aka 3070 got crippled by the 8GB vram limit. So it seems Nvidia continue with their screwups. Not only screwed up prices... The whole product is screwed up.

 

As a footnote. The cheapest 4070 here home is $736.25 United States Dollar🤢

3 hours ago, cylix said:

Yeah crazy that dual bios feature is missing but they put so much care building it nice with those pads on the backplate for extra cooling.

 

Whats the point put more money in a cooling that is worse than for the FE cards? They used damn expensive pads. Ten times more expensive than the best Fuji-Poly can offer😎 And what does a dual bios feature cost? +- $10 ?  

 

Those two useless small extra fans maybe increased their cost with $3 as max. But useless gimmics often increase the attention. So maybe worth it... For Maxsun. Not the buyers. 

 

Here you can see how useless works out...

 

The two small whiny fans should be traded with dual bios feature. And Maxun should have taken the cost difference. 3$ vs 10$. So 7$ off the profits..

[Mr. Fox]

This arrived today. Unbelievable how heavy this sucker is. Looking forward to testing it.

 

[tps3443]

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

  

I am not offering it for sale anywhere else, so if you still want it and want to save up the money that is fine. It'll collect some dust, but it won't hurt it to sit. 

  

The Z690 Apex (thank you for selling it to me) is working fine now that I downgraded the BIOS to v2204. The newest (2305) was trash on the Strix and that proved to be true on the Apex as well. Unexplainable random BSOD and Windows lockups on both machines using identical BIOS setting or running with BIOS defaults. Instantly fixed by going back to v2204.

 

It is really sad and unfortunate that ASUS is blocking firmware downgrades and making customers have to jump through hoops to use the firmware they want to use. That's a really messed up approach to a company masquerading as enthusiast-centric. Their behavior proves otherwise.

 

What is not working fine is the memory overclocking. The Hynix M-die modules I am using ran like at top at 6800 and 7000 on both the Unify-X and Dark. When I put it in the Strix it maxed out at 6400. The maximum supported memory clock on the Strix is DDR5-6400. I assumed that, along with being a 4-DIMM setup, was why. Now I am thinking that was wrong because it maxes out at 6400 stable on the Apex as well. It will boot and run at 6800, but very unstable (was the same on the Strix) to the point of being unusable.

 

So, I'm going to test using the A-die in the Dark to see if it is the memory has degraded somehow. I can't use the memory waterblock I had on the Strix because it is a 4-slot waterblock and the DIMM.2 slot is too close to the memory slots... almost touching. I'm not sure if the 2-slot waterblock will even work. Very stupid that ASUS put them so close together like they did. At 6400 all memory tests pass unless I let them run long enough for the memory to overheat and the system reboots. Running MemTestPro with the DangWang GUI the memory reaches ~70°C and the system reboots. The memory also requires more voltage at 6400 than it did in the Unify-X or Dark. I assumed that was the Strix having weaker memory traces, but the same is true on the Apex. That part is not helping with the high temperatures (which I why I put the waterblock on to begin with).

Glad it’s working okay. DDR5 7000 was definitely working. And it managed to get through “The Last of Us (Vanilla) 30 minute shader compile. This is seriously a tough test lol. I also ran the Aida 64 memory stress test at DDR5 7000 but not for very long.
 

Make sure to disable both MRC fast boot, and regular fast boot. MRC fast boot is in the Dram timing page. 
 

I would apply your memory setting of 6800 reboot and hit the retrain button.
 

My Z790 Apex was fantastic out of the box, then I go and update its FW and bios. And it took a turn for the worse, board was horrible man I actually thought I literally broke it. Disabling those 2 items and hitting retrain button fixed me right up, it was literally a magic button (I wish I would have tried this on the Z690 Apex, but I had no idea about it)

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

This arrived today. Unbelievable how heavy this sucker is. Looking forward to testing it.

 

 

Not really sure why EK didn’t take the more simplistic approach like the Ice man DD block. Im really curious to hear how this competes against the 12th gen super cool DD.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

Glad it’s working okay. DDR5 7000 was definitely working. And it managed to get through “The Last of Us (Vanilla) 30 minute shader compile. This is seriously a tough test lol. I also ran the Aida 64 memory stress test at DDR5 7000 but not for very long.
 

Make sure to disable both MRC fast boot, and regular fast boot. MRC fast boot is in the Dram timing page. 
 

I would apply your memory setting of 6800 reboot and hit the retrain button.
 

My Z790 Apex was fantastic out of the box, then I go and update its FW and bios. And it took a turn for the worse, board was horrible man I actually thought I literally broke it. Disabling those 2 items and hitting retrain button fixed me right up, it was literally a magic button (I wish I would have tried this on the Z690 Apex, but I had no idea about it)

Did you enable MRC fast boot afterwards (after training) to speed up the boot? Or you're stuck with slower boot now?

 

The Asus Z690 Apex MB lottery is probably the worst lottery I have ever seen. Some can barely do 6000 while some can do +8000. Asus should have branded this MB as... Asus Z690 Apex DDR5 Guinea Pig Edition.

 

A (Average) S (Sub quality) U (Utter trash) S (Stupid expensive). 

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Did you enable MRC fast boot afterwards (after training) to speed up the boot? Or you're stuck with slower boot now?

 

The Asus Z690 Apex MB lottery is probably the worst lottery I have ever seen. Some can barely do 6000 while some can do +8000. Asus should have branded this MB as... Asus Z690 Apex DDR5 Guinea Pig Edition.

 

A (Average) S (Sub quality) U (Utter trash) S (Stupid expensive). 

Yeah the Z690 Apex boards were upsetting. I still liked it so much though, I was willing to sacrifice a little memory overclock ability just to use the motherboard. The voltage control was nice, and it ran a CPU stock extremely well. It’s impressive seeing my current Apex drive a 13900KS without power limited to 280 watts under R23 with auto/default stock voltages. @Mr. Fox could also pick up that one Z690 Apex on HWBot with no heatsinks or covers and swap all of the parts over. Both board cost(s) combined would still make it a great deal. 

 

I guess I should turn MRC back on. It trains pretty quickly with it off though. It’s not so bad. I’m tempted to grab me some really cool ram now 🤣 and a white PCB 4080 or 4090. The new 2x24GB DDR5 and 2x48GB DDR5 kits are looking good! Speaking of which if I was @electrosoft I’d be grabbing some of the new Hynix A-Die 2x48GB (6400) sets. I think that dual rank A-Die would match well with Ryzen 3D chips.  
 

The Apex Z790 is very solid though. I can definitely live happily with this motherboard. I guess I should have had one about 4 months ago. But no worries. Not much of the really cool PC stuff in the US. Right now I’m memory limited though, I have to send 1.650V VDD/VDDQ to stabilize just 8000c34 using my 7200c34 sticks. 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

The Apex Z790 is very solid though.

Yep, after all the problems with the Z690 Apex board they hadn't many other choices than try  improve it. I wonder how it would be received by the fanboys if Asus yet again have thrown out a new Apex board with the same uneven and trashy quality as the old board.  

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5257238_papusan_3dmark_vantage___performance_geforce_gtx_670_55885_marks?recalculate=true

[Clamibot]

6 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

This arrived today. Unbelievable how heavy this sucker is. Looking forward to testing it.

 

 

This thing looks awesome and very well built. We're looking forward to seeing your results!

 

I took a look at the installation part of the video you posted again to see if I missed anything. Here is the list of dos and don'ts:

 

Do:

- Apply masking or electrical tape on the CPU to secure it in the socket

- Gently massage the waterblock into place after putting it on top of the CPU (if needed). You probably won't need to do this, but you can if the screw holes are off when you initially install the waterblock.

 

Don'ts:

- Do not overtighten the screws. Hand tight or slightly tighter is enough.

- Do not use a power tool like an electric screwdriver to install the screws (lol). Use a hand tool only.

- Do not use too much force while screwing in the screws. Be gentle.

[Mr. Fox]

Yeah, I think this is an example of a not-great Apex. I've definitely seen worse, but I am so glad I didn't pay normal price for it. It was worth every penny paid for it, but not worth the new asking price. I moved the A-die from the Dark to the Apex for testing. It will not boot using my daily driver memory overclock settings that runs 8000 totally smooth and stable I can boot the A-die at 7600 installed in the Apex, but I can't get it stable past 6800-7000. My 6800 M-die settings that worked great on the Dark and Unify-X will not boot when applied to the Apex,

 

@tps3443the button you mention is the "retry" (not "retrain") and what it does it try to boot and train the memory again.

 

The M-die works the same as it always did on the Dark. It seems nothing is wrong with the memory modules, just the Strix and Apex are grossly inferior to the Dark mobo and Unify-X. The Apex is better than the Strix for a few minor reasons, but it is not half the motherboard as the Dark. It weighs a lot less and feel like a budget board compared to the Dark.

 

I forgot the wonky way that ASUS handles switching BIOS. When you select the second BIOS position with the button it goes through a process that seems like reflashing the same chip instead of simply deactivating one and using the other. It reprograms the Aura  lighting and "updates" the BIOS. I forgot how stupid that is. With the 3-way BIOS on the Dark, you turn it off, slide the switch to the position you want, and it boots from the associated BIOS chip... not flashing or anything.

 

I am going to have to install my external RGB controller tomorrow. The Aura settings do not save permanently using OpenRGB. I have to manually apply the white LED profile manually at every reboot or it automatically moves into rainbow puke mode by default.

[1610ftw]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:07 AM, Ashtrix said:

Now I'm just thinking about 3 options of new machine - Clevo X170 KM with a lot of baggage attached.., 1/2 BGA Precision 7720 Refurbished for cheap. A BGA Lenovo Legion 7i 2022.

 

Unfortunate.

 

In case you cannot save your Alienware you may want to also look into the MSI GT75 - it is quite old now but it has the works when it comes to options and can be had for as low as 600$ with 4 cores:

- overclocking and undervolting with very good (MXM) GPU performance for the 1080 models that can sustain about 200W for a 8000+ Time Spy GPU score, the CPU can sustain south of 100W 

- very good accessibility as long as you do not have to access anything above the motherboard but that is doable, too I am told but I have never had to do it on mine

- very good 1080p 120 Hz screen (4k is rare) but should also take QHD and 4K screens or even an 18" ugprade if you are into putting in another screen

- 10G ethernet for the first two generations - no other laptops ever had that - take that puny 2.5G!

- 4 memory slots with up to 64GB and 4 drive bays for storage (3x m2 and 1x 2.5") with excellent cooling

- very nice mechanical keyboard but you got to be able to tolerate "unique" key placement 

- excellent fan control options and very quiet in normal use

- excellent sound, among the best and also plays quite loud

- overall among best in class connectivity

 

And you did not mention them but I have looked at Clevo P775 / P870 prices and they have been going for as low as 600$ it seems with a 1080 so they would be excellent deals for a fully upgradeable and modular platform. That is if you can put up with their subpar keyboard and not very exciting base chassis and buggy software. So you will possibly want to put more work into them but it also means that you CAN put more work into them and the threads in the Clevo section prove it 😄

If you start out with at least the DM3 versions then you can always upgrade from that later with the final options being 9900K, 3080 and even special heatsinks with and without watercooling. The rabbit hole goes very deep...

 

Oh and X170SM-G with 10900K and 2080 Super have been as low as 1100$ lately which was a steal. If you want more drives and 10 cores it will be preferable to the X170KM-G.

 

No comment on recent BGA books but you may get best bang for the buck CPU and GPU performance out of the usual suspects with a 3070 or 3070 Ti, there are even a bunch of good screen options. Pride of ownership you will obviously not get and I will leave it to others to make recommendations there as I have no interest in them.

[Mr. Fox]

57 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

This thing looks awesome and very well built. We're looking forward to seeing your results!

 

I took a look at the installation part of the video you posted again to see if I missed anything. Here is the list of dos and don'ts:

 

Do:

- Apply masking or electrical tape on the CPU to secure it in the socket

- Gently massage the waterblock into place after putting it on top of the CPU (if needed). You probably won't need to do this, but you can if the screw holes are off when you initially install the waterblock.

 

Don'ts:

- Do not overtighten the screws. Hand tight or slightly tighter is enough.

- Do not use a power tool like an electric screwdriver to install the screws (lol). Use a hand tool only.

- Do not use too much force while screwing in the screws. Be gentle.

Thank you for the intrpreter summay. Very useful.

[Etern4l]

Hmm, what do you guys think about the actual difference between those 2 memory kits?

 

VENGEANCE® 96GB (2x48GB) DDR5 DRAM 5200MHz C38 Memory Kit — Black

 5200 38-38-38-84

and

VENGEANCE® 96GB (2x48GB) DDR5 DRAM 5600MHz C40 Memory Kit

5600 40-40-40-77

The 5200 JEDEC profile for this, is also 38-38-38-84  

 

They are almost the same price, $10-20 difference. I am not sure I will be able to run them at more than 5200 (my fury beast 5600 barely boots at 5600, and 5400 probably good enough for light benching but unstable in 4x config), but the question is: which one is likely to have better timings at 5200? Is there really any difference (given the almost identical price), or is just some marketing gimmick? Could the 5600 variant be better binned?

I understand memory chips to be Micron BTW. 

 

The 5200 variant has a bit better availability... 

Put another way: is it likely that the 5600 SKU is better binned, so will likely run at 5600 with no issues in the future, IMC/mobo permitting, and could end up with better timings at 5200, or is there unlikely to be any difference between the two in practice? 

 

My Fury Beast 5600CL40 runs at 5200 30-38-38-38-70 completely stable which is fairly good I guess. Would be disappointing to see a significant regression. I think (but not sure) the RAM is SK Hynix, not Micron though. 

[electrosoft]

13 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Yeah the Z690 Apex boards were upsetting. I still liked it so much though, I was willing to sacrifice a little memory overclock ability just to use the motherboard. The voltage control was nice, and it ran a CPU stock extremely well. It’s impressive seeing my current Apex drive a 13900KS without power limited to 280 watts under R23 with auto/default stock voltages. @Mr. Fox could also pick up that one Z690 Apex on HWBot with no heatsinks or covers and swap all of the parts over. Both board cost(s) combined would still make it a great deal. 

 

I guess I should turn MRC back on. It trains pretty quickly with it off though. It’s not so bad. I’m tempted to grab me some really cool ram now 🤣 and a white PCB 4080 or 4090. The new 2x24GB DDR5 and 2x48GB DDR5 kits are looking good! Speaking of which if I was @electrosoft I’d be grabbing some of the new Hynix A-Die 2x48GB (6400) sets. I think that dual rank A-Die would match well with Ryzen 3D chips.  
 

The Apex Z790 is very solid though. I can definitely live happily with this motherboard. I guess I should have had one about 4 months ago. But no worries. Not much of the really cool PC stuff in the US. Right now I’m memory limited though, I have to send 1.650V VDD/VDDQ to stabilize just 8000c34 using my 7200c34 sticks. 

 

DR is a possibility but it can be hard on the fclk for AM5 so I want to see where my 7950X3D stacks up in a week or so when I unbox it for testing. On the 7800X3D I have no problems going from 2100 (its max) to 2000 for DR memory but if the 7950X3D is a 2200 I would most likely stick with SR unless they clear up the DR situation or I just buy a set to test for myself and see if it can handle it.

 

 

[Papusan]

15 hours ago, Papusan said:

The Asus Z690 Apex MB lottery is probably the worst lottery I have ever seen. Some can barely do 6000 while some can do +8000. Asus should have branded this MB as... Asus Z690 Apex DDR5 Guinea Pig Edition.

 

A (Average) S (Sub quality) U (Utter trash) S (Stupid expensive). 

Users Report Ryzen 7000X3D Chips Burning Out, Killing Motherboards It could be a motherboard BIOS issue.

 

Asus has just withdrew old BIOSes for many of its AMD X670-based motherboards, but for some of them old BIOSes are still available.

 

For now, we recommend that those with AMD's Ryzen 7000X3D processors keep a close eye on their CPU temps, use adequate cooling and keep their BIOSes up-to-date.

 

Great... You will always have to use newest firmware, even if you want it or not. And ASUS and bios updates can be a hit or miss. Mostly a downgrade for stability. But you get latest security patches (some that remember Plundervolt and what it did for Jokebooks?)....

 

Here is another flooop. But from Nvidia......

 

0:46 RTX 4070 Week 1 Sales Leak – An Overall Flop

 

The damn AI technology race come all too early. I wish it started 6 months later or fall 2023. Nvidia would be forced to do some changes on prices before the 4000 series popped out. But this would probably not help if you wanted the 4090. Only for the lower tier 40xx  SKUs.