*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Raiderman]

 

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

EVGA Z15. They have a clicky type and a not clicky type. I have one of each and wish both were the non-clicky type.  You use EVGA RGB software to set the colors and they save to the keyboard NVRAM so the software only needs to run when you want to change something. The EVGA software (like always) is a win32 application, not UWP filth.

 

This is a link for the non-clicky version: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=821-W1-15US-KR

 

6 hours ago, Ashtrix said:

 

Hyper X Alloy Origins is a good choice, its entirely made of AL chassis, removable USB C cable. Downside is UWP app for managing KB features. BUT the KB itself has 3 on-board profiles (which is very rare for many KBs including Corsair which do not have that), you do not need the software once you are done customizing. Another downside depending on user, it does not have media keys.

 

https://hyperx.com/products/hyperx-alloy-origins-mechanical-gaming-keyboard?variant=42330451148957

I like both of those, but I kind of like the "out of stock" price of the evga unit. $59.95 is reasonable, but out of stock 😞

If you click any of the other "where to buy" links, its quite a bit more, even at Amazon. Right now I am using an old Logitech G 19s. Good keyboard, but the backlit keys are very dim.

 

 

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, ryan said:

well. I think that killed it.

 

back on topic. if the cables are defective why buy them. and it looks like the 3060 is equal to the 4060, pitiful.

 

its kinda like buying a bag of apples and all of them have a rotten core...go somewhere else don't repeat and complain. everything has issues

Because the 90 degrees adapters looks much prettier in the Pc-box. And you reduce the bend (2nd, 3rd or 4th reason we see melted 12VHPWR connectors). And not all come defective from CableMod😀@electrosoft😁 

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5279677_papusan_3dmark03_geforce_gtx_980_271450_marks?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5279673_papusan_3dmark05_geforce_gtx_980_109735_marks?recalculate=true

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I like both of those, but I kind of like the "out of stock" price of the evga unit. $59.95 is reasonable, but out of stock 😞

If you click any of the other "where to buy" links, its quite a bit more, even at Amazon. Right now I am using an old Logitech G 19s. Good keyboard, but the backlit keys are very dim.

I like the simplicity of both the EVGA and HyperX keyboards. Not a lot of fluff and gimmicky stuff, just a no-nosense mechanical keyboard with a metal frame and good backlighting. I really like that EVGA has not made any off its software UWP filth. Everything is the vastly superior legacy win32 applications.

 

Keep an eye open for the same price on NewEgg. That is where I bought both of mine for the same price at EVGA's current out of stock price. Maybe set a price alert for $60. 

[Mr. Fox]

I believe it is the connector socket design and NVIDIA's fault for forcing change where change was not necessary and illogical. Instead of the power being spread out over three 8-pin connectors that uses 24 pins and ~2.5 inches of PCB it is a crammed into 12 pins (not counting the sensor wire and three empty sockets) funneling into one inch of PCB. Same principle as using a small guage wire where a larger guage wire is indicated. More power than the small connection can comfortably and reliably manage.

 

Another example of "smaller/thinner/lighter is better" reflecting engineering stupidity.

[Etern4l]

28 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

 

It won't be long before Nvidia announces that merely plugging the 12VHPWR connector in voids warranty ;) 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

It won't be long before Nvidia announces that merely plugging the 12VHPWR connector in voids warranty 😉

It might have turned out better had they used two instead of only one of these dainty little connectors, but that probably would have cut into their profits by at least $1.75 per graphics card, so perish the thought.

 

Comments on that video... all spot on.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

I went ahead and got another 1200W SHIFT PSU. I really like the flat cables and side ports. It is so much easier to manage the flat cables versus round sleeved cables, and the side ports free up usable space. The space they occupy on the side of the PSU is normally unused. The cables on a conventional PSU consume space that can be used for something else, like a drive cage or basement pump for a custom loop. All things considered, the volume this PSU and its cables consume is probably about half what my 1600W Supernova PSU consumes. Maybe the fact that it is native ATX 3.0 and has the factory 12VHPWR cable will help avoid socket melting.

 

 

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I believe it is the connector socket design and NVIDIA's fault for forcing change where change was not necessary and illogical. Instead of the power being spread out over three 8-pin connectors that uses 24 pins and ~2.5 inches of PCB it is a crammed into 12 pins (not counting the sensor wire and three empty sockets) funneling into one inch of PCB. Same principle as using a small guage wire where a larger guage wire is indicated. More power than the small connection can comfortably and reliably manage.

 

Another example of "smaller/thinner/lighter is better" reflecting engineering stupidity

Nvidia should have done as Galax. Dual 12VHPWR connectors as the HOF. Aka 12x 12v lines. But I expect Nvidia was afraid the sales would sink as a stone due not all have PSUs that offer enough 8 pin connectors. And double up with connectors and adapters increase costs. Remember the Nvidia 4x8pin adapter was needed due many of the older PSUs out there have thinner 12v wires (not every PSU maker uses 16g wire for their PCIe cables). A good quality PSU can output 300W from one single 8pin connector if they used thicker wire gauge. Nvidia has to counter on for 150w from the 8pin connector. Aka they would need 4x8pin connectors. So the next best would be going the Galax route (1200W).

 

Here's a new one from today.... The same thing happened to me today. 4090 Tuf, 90 degree adapter.

 

Then you have same QC problems rolling from CableMod... Don't throw away your ugly old adapter from the GPU package. A lifesaver for gamers, HaHa

[Mr. Fox]

7 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Nvidia should have done as Galax. Dual 12VHPWR connectors as the HOF.

Agree. 4080 and 4090 should both have dual 12VHPWR connectors. There is too much current getting pushed through a small connector with fewer pins. If you look at the guage of the pins that solder to the PCB, they are also thinner, which further increases the heat on the connection. It would dramatically reduce the heat load on just one if they distributed the current on two connectors, even if you didn't utilize their full capacity.

 

My 3090 KPE had zero issues with 900W+ running through three 8-pin connectors. 

[johnksss]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:05 AM, Papusan said:

One thing for sure. Intel want some of the gaming chips sales.... 

 

AMD's Ryzen 7 7800X3D Selling Nearly Twice as Fast as 5800X3D in Some Regions

 

And this one is for you bro @Ashtrix

https://www.pcgamer.com/you-know-m2-ssds-suck-right/

Yup, most likely their QC problems.  Some even get their new CableMod cables with small sense wires dingle in the free air.... Aka easier to catch.

 

I opened my case up and this small sense wire from my 12vhpwr was just dangling there. This isn't supposed to be free right? CableMod/reddit

 

 

Definitely, not suppose to come that way! 

 

21 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

@johnksss @Papusan the sense cable makes more sense. While it was technically connected, the cabling was floating on its own versus everything else.

 

Here is a pic of my actual failed Cablemod cable (before I cut it in half as per their instructions). This is the EVGA specific cable and you can also see how they just attached leads based upon which PSU you used:

 

 

 

 

 

Are you able to see the sense pin connecters in the tip? And if so, do they move? 

[Papusan]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Agree. 4080 and 4090 should both have dual 12VHPWR connectors. There is too much current getting pushed through a small connector with fewer pins. If you look at the guage of the pins that solder to the PCB, they are also thinner, which further increases the heat on the connection. It would dramatically reduce the heat load on just one if they distributed the current on two connectors, even if you didn't utilize their full capacity.

Or just made the 12VHPWR bigger to take benefits from all the 12v lines from the 8pin connectors. Each 8pin connector offer 3x 12v lines. So total of 12x 12v pins from the 4x8-pin adapter.

 

At least dual 12VHPWR connectors for the 4090. This would reduce the chance for smoke and fire. Current draw in 12 pins for balancing the power.

14 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

My 3090 KPE had zero issues with 900W+ running through three 8-pin connectors. 

Remember 3x 8pin offer 9x 12v rails. So no problem if you have a normal good quality PSU. But it would be worse if you used the cheaper ones that follow the 150W specs for 8-pin. Nvidia and their partners has to counter for cheapo PSUs.

[Mr. Fox]

9 hours ago, Papusan said:

Or just made the 12VHPWR bigger to take benefits from all the 12v lines from the 8pin connectors. Each 8pin connector offer 3x 12v lines. So total of 12x 12v pins.

 

At least dual 12VHPWR connectors for the 4090. This would reduce the chance for smoke and fire. Current draw in 12 pins for balancing the power.

Remember 3x 8pin offer 9x 12v rails. So no problem if you have a normal good quality PSU. But it would be worse if you used the cheaper ones that follow the 150W specs for 8-pin. Nvidia and their partners has to counter for cheapo PSUs.

It is also a matter of strength and load distribution. The small connector with thinner pins soldering to the PCB not only will get hotter because they are thinner, they are weaker because they are thinner. You can see it just by looking. If I compare the size of them to what the 3090 had and the 6900 XT have on the 8-pin connections, you can instantly tell the diameter is smaller.

 

Remember, NorthridgeFix also showed at least one video where those posts/pin were physically broken. It places too much stress on a weaker/smaller part physically and electrically IMHO. Stupid... the "thinner, lighter, smaller is better" approach always sucks and only dumb-dumbs believe it is true.

[Papusan]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It is also a matter or strength and load distribution. The small connector with thinner pins soldering to the PCB not only will get hotter because they are thinner, they are weaker because they are thinner. Remember, NorthridgeFix also showed at least one video where those posts/pin were physically broken. It places too much stress on a weaker/smaller part physically and electrically IMHO. Stupid... the "thinner, lighter, smaller is better" approach always sucks and only dumb-dumbs believe it is true.

Yep, I said the connector is fragile. This is PCI-sig and Intel design. Nvidia went cheapo and only went for 1 12VHPWR connecor to cut costs. The connector is badly designed. The engineer that made the final design should be fired.

 

The ugly truth. I hour ago. CableMod milk money on the smoking mess. The only benefits is the prettier design and their warranty. But the warranty is paid from the increased costs(You buy new adapter for premium).

 

 

 

90 degree adapter melted....

[Etern4l]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It is also a matter or strength and load distribution. The small connector with thinner pins soldering to the PCB not only will get hotter because they are thinner, they are weaker because they are thinner. You can see it just by looking. If I compare the size of them to what the 3090 had and the 6900 XT have on the 8-pin connections, you can instantly tell the diameter is smaller.

 

Remember, NorthridgeFix also showed at least one video where those posts/pin were physically broken. It places too much stress on a weaker/smaller part physically and electrically IMHO. Stupid... the "thinner, lighter, smaller is better" approach always sucks and only dumb-dumbs believe it is true.

 

Plus this thin connector might incurs some unnecessary energy loss, as thinner wiring could mean materially larger resistance. Does the connector get warm under 400W load? 

[Ashtrix]

6 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Or just made the 12VHPWR bigger to take benefits from all the 12v lines from the 8pin connectors. Each 8pin connector offer 3x 12v lines. So total of 12x 12v pins.

 

At least dual 12VHPWR connectors for the 4090. This would reduce the chance for smoke and fire. Current draw in 12 pins for balancing the power.

Remember 3x 8pin offer 9x 12v rails. So no problem if you have a normal good quality PSU. But it would be worse if you used the cheaper ones that follow the 150W specs for 8-pin.

 

Seasonic Prime TX series uses all 12v pins for the PCIe outputs and label them as CPU / PCIe on the PSU side you can have all the watts you can ofc not exceed the maximum capacity. Ofc the cables vary for CPU EPS line vs GPU lines. But PSU has option not that all PSUs can do this but still a good PSU as you said should suffice.

 

Clearly the existing 8Pins could handle it day and night 24/7 without any issue. But Nvidia wanted to savefor redesigning their stupidity of heatsink the denser PCB design too since Ampere V shaped PCBs due to the HS/Shroud design, all in all they just banked on the smaller connector and called it a day and forced the PCI SIG / Intel to push for it. 

 

Esp the fact on how Ampere lineup uses a 1/2 16Pin design with only 12 Pins, ironically this one had a latch while the 16 Pin does not. Plus none of the 3090s got burnt, and no 3090Ti too, a moot point.

 

Also the HS not like mega tank, for instance if you scrape the Founders Edition Heat Sink Fins edges with a plastic pry tool or even your nails not even scrape just touch, you will lose the black paint, that's how awful their $1500 Heat Sink Fins are. Meanwhile Alienware 17 from decade ago heatsink fins never do that kind of BS on losing the black coating...Well It happened to me accidentally for a small imperfection on a 3090FE.

 

Nvidia also got away with poor cooling on VRAM for 3090FE on the backside. Claiming how Micron GDD6X is fine for 118C, that's scorching hot and no matter what the heat cycling and the opposite side of VRAM having active cooling that heat will bleed everywhere and cause a mess in the long run.

 

Garbage company end to end, esp the new VRAM fiasco and BS Fake frames.

 

Cablemod support is really good, also their cables are really good quality not that they are way superior but they are just good as I noticed stock Seasonic cables have gold coating for the pins which go into the PSU while Cablemod does not. And they did a lot of design even though some of the QC issues exist like PSU pinout do not match for some custom orders etc and the 12VHPWR pin alignment like I showed, 8Pin connectors also do not align always for even Stock PSU cables but they do not have this BS issue because simply surface area of contact on 8 Pins is more than 12/16Pin BS. There's simply more Metal Mass, so much less reduced area of effect for any mishap.

 

The 12VHPWR needs a v2 overhaul not just extending Sense pins and Nvidia needs to compensate every single owner who bought GPUs with this garbage connector with some money, I know both are not going to happen but I hope a Class Action Lawsuit like GTX970 VRAM crap.

[Mr. Fox]

30 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, I said the connector is fragile. This is PCI-sig and Intel design. Nvidia went cheapo and only went for 1 12VHPWR connecor to cut costs. The connector is badly designed. The engineer that made the final design should be fired.

 

The ugly truth. I hour ago. CableMod milk money on the smoking mess. The only benefits is the prettier design and their warranty. But the warranty is paid from the increased costs(You buy new adapter for premium).

 

 

 

90 degree adapter melted....

My Cablemod cable and 90° adapter show no signs of melting or heat despite the recent benchning with more than 600W getting rammed through it.

17 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Plus this thin connector might incurs some unnecessary energy loss, as thinner wiring could mean materially larger resistance. Does the connector get warm under 400W load? 

Neither the cable nor the 90° adapter has ever felt hot during severe load. Slightly warmer than room temperature.

[Papusan]

29 minutes ago, Ashtrix said:

Nvidia also got away with poor cooling on VRAM for 3090FE on the backside. Claiming how Micron GDD6X is fine for 118C, that's scorching hot and no matter what the heat cycling and the opposite side of VRAM having active cooling that heat will bleed everywhere and cause a mess in the long run.

4090FE supper from bad power phase cooling. You really need water vool the GPU if you intend to use the 600W power limits.

29 minutes ago, Ashtrix said:

The 12VHPWR needs a v2 overhaul not just extending Sense pins and Nvidia needs to compensate every single owner who bought GPUs with this garbage connector with some money, I know both are not going to happen but I hope a Class Action Lawsuit like GTX970 VRAM crap.

 

Nvidia and their partners should cover every burned cards whatever adaper or cable you use. Their mess. They havs to clean up.

 

16 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

My Cablemod cable and 90° adapter show no signs of melting or heat despite the recent benchning with more than 600W getting rammed through it.

Neither the cable nor the 90° adapter has ever felt hot during severe load. Slightly warmer than room temperature.

 

Extra connection in the cable loop will add resistance. But not enough to make an difference. 

 

But no adapter will be better in any shape or form if the QC problems continue pop up. And pretty doesn't mean better. The adapter in the GPU packages is really good but not so pretty. Remember most people still use them. Or need them to game while they have sent back custom cables/adapter back to the shop due QC problems😀

[johnksss]

16 minutes ago, Papusan said:

4090FE supper from bad power phase cooling. You really need water vool the GPU if you intend to use the 600W power limits.

 

Nvidia and their partners should cover every burned cards whatever adaper or cable you use. Their mess. They havs to clean up.

 

 

Extra connection in the cable loop will add resistance. But not enough to make an difference. 

 

But no adapter will be better if the QC problems continue pop up. And pretty doesn't mean better. The adapter in the GPU packages is really good but not so pretty. Remember most people still use them. Or need them to game while they have sent back custom cables/adapter back to the shop due QC problems😀

Update to an earlier post...

Looks like Nvidia was the one to replace the card and not CableMod.

level 1

c9chapsui

·15 days ago

 

Hey man, same exact thing happened to me last weekend, I posted it here and the nvidia sub reddit with some pictures. Oddly enough I was also playing jedi survivor... Wonder if your adapter melted the same pins as mine did. Nvidia moved forward with my RMA no issues, so I hope yours gets resolved as well.

[Mr. Fox]

44 minutes ago, Papusan said:

But no adapter will be better in any shape or form if the QC problems continue pop up. And pretty doesn't mean better. The adapter in the GPU packages is really good but not so pretty. Remember most people still use them. Or need them to game while they have sent back custom cables/adapter back to the shop due QC problems😀

I am not sure there is any real evidence to show that Cablemod QC is universally bad or that their cables are causing it. The 90° adapter might create some resistance, but bear in mind that the adapter might be used to avoid bending the cable near the connector in tight spaces. The aesthetic improvement is nice, but it is not necessarily the motivating factor in all cases. It may be used in an effort to prevent the burning cable due to being bent sharply near the connector on the PCB in a case that is not large enough.

44 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Nvidia and their partners should cover every burned cards whatever adaper or cable you use. Their mess. They havs to clean up.

Totally agree with that. The alternative to replacing it free of charge during the warranty period if the connector melts would be a recall and replacement of all GPUs sold so far with a new GPU using a better connector design, or a larger PCB with 8-pin connectors.

 

I would like to see AIB partners do this on their own and start building 4090s with four 8-pin connectors and 4080/4080TI with three 8-pin connectors rather than following NVIDIA's lead on the 12VHPWR connectors. Any GPUs that are replaced under warranty would get the new design that does not use 12VHPWR connectors. 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, johnksss said:

Definitely, not suppose to come that way! 

 

Are you able to see the sense pin connecters in the tip? And if so, do they move? 

 

Yep and they do move slightly back and forth tugging on the cable.

 

Replacement showed up today and visually it looks identical and the sense pins actually move a tad bit more and the lines are still free floating.

[Mr. Fox]

3 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Yep and they do move slightly back and forth tugging on the cable.

 

Replacement showed up today and visually it looks identical and the sense pins actually move a tad bit more and the lines are still free floating.

The thin sensor wires are always free-floating on every example I have seen so far. Even the factory 12VHPWR cable that comes with my Corsair PSU has it free-floating, but it is in the middle between two flat ribbon cables so it is protected pretty well. I think some of them that are sleeved put the sensor wire inside of the sleeve.

[electrosoft]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

The thin sensor wires are always free-floating on every example I have seen so far. Even the factory 12VHPWR cable that comes with my Corsair PSU has it free-floating, but it is in the middle between two flat ribbon cables so it is protected pretty well. I think some of them that are sleeved put the sensor wire inside of the sleeve.

 

I think the problem with the free floating design (potentially) is the floating leads and potential movement in the docking like @johnksss alluded to previously (as if he is rarely or ever wrong 🙂 )

 

 

In hindsight, I would have tested my original moving the wires manually to see if it would work and/or cause a shut down. This time during my next system overhaul I'm going to purposefully play with the lines/pins connected under a few different load levels and see if anything happens.

 

There is zero movement in the MSI adapter (aka Quadro Force Tentacles **ATTACK**)

 

Is there an all in one 12VHPWR 90 degree adapter and line on the market?

 

 

[johnksss]

4 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

I think the problem with the free floating design (potentially) is the floating leads and potential movement in the docking like @johnksss alluded to previously (as if he is rarely or ever wrong 🙂 )

 

 

In hindsight, I would have tested my original moving the wires manually to see if it would work and/or cause a shut down. This time during my next system overhaul I'm going to purposefully play with the lines/pins connected under a few different load levels and see if anything happens.

 

There is zero movement in the MSI adapter (aka Quadro Force Tentacles **ATTACK**)

 

Is there an all in one 12VHPWR 90 degree adapter and line on the market?

 

 

Oh no, plenty of times I have been wrong. And I have to suck it up, except and acknowledge it. 😂

 

When you guys say free...I thought you meant free as in the wire was pulled from the housing and just hanging there like in @Papusan posted picture? That's not what you guys mean?

[Mr. Fox]

19 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Is there an all in one 12VHPWR 90 degree adapter and line on the market?

I have not seen one, but a cable with the terminal on the GPU end having the same variety of 90° orientations as the Cablemod adapter would be good. Having the cable connect to an adapter that connects to the GPU provides a potential additional point of heat-generating resistance, and in the worst case scenario, increasing the opportunity for failure/damage. Even the crappy stubby adapters that ship with new GPUs provide an additional point for possible failure. Those adapters would not be as undesirable if they had cables that were 12 inches long. Their stubby design is what makes them so stinking undesirable. They produce an eye sore in an otherwise clean-looking build.

 

Maybe they made them ugly on purpose so people would want to spend money on new ATX 3.0 PSUs, better aftermarket adapters or 12VHPWR cables. (Yes, that would be collusion and a hybrid scalping technique to spread the money around to everyone that wants to have their hands in the Ada Lovelace profit jar.)

12 minutes ago, johnksss said:

When you guys say free...I thought you meant free as in the wire was pulled from the housing and just hanging there like in @Papusan posted picture? That's not what you guys mean?

What I meant was loose in the middle, but not disconnected at either end. I am not sure what anyone else meant if not that.

[johnksss]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I have not seen one, but a cable with the terminal on the GPU end having same variety of 90° orientations as the Cablemod adapter would be good. Having the cable connect to an adapter that connects to the GPU provides a potential addition point of resistance, and in the worst case scenario, increasing the opportunity for failure/damage. Even the crappy stubby adapters that ship with new GPUs provide an addition point for possible failure. Those adapters would not be as undesirable if they had cables that were 12 inches long. Their stubby design is what makes them so stinking undesirable. Maybe they made them ugly on purpose so people would want to spend money on new ATX 3.0 PSUs, better aftermarket adapters or 12VHPWR cables. (Yes, that would be collusion to spread the money around to everyone that wants to have theirs hand in the Ada profit jar.)

What I meant was loose in the middle, but not disconnected at either end. I am not sure what anyone else meant if not that.

Ah, okay. Mine is also free, but like you mentioned. All 4 of mine are covered in the sheath all the way to the PSU.

Also to add.. All terminals seem to be pretty sturdy and no bent or out of place pins on the card itself.