*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

I'd kill for the dry heat. It isn't so much the temps in Jersey that are brutal but that humidity.....

 

Either give me humidity or give me high temps. Don't slap me around with both! 🙂

Yeah I hate humidity and rain or any other forms of precipitation. I grew up in that kind of climate and I would never want to move back to it. I'm reminded of how miserable it is to live in a humid place every time I visit one for business or pleasure. No thank you. 

 

I have lived in high desert regions in the Pacific Northwest and now the desert Southwest for decades, and while I don't really like the extreme heat, I do like the extreme dryness a lot. I probably should be a cat instead of a fox because I hate getting wet unless I'm taking a shower. And, around these parts it's drier than a popcorn fart.

 

That mini ITX setup sounds like it's probably about as screwed up as a desktop can get. Seems more like a turdbook. Are you sure it wasn't made by Dell/Alienware, LOL?

 

You might be able to do some things to lessen its crappiness, but you'll never get it to run as fantastic as a real desktop the way it's built. From what you've described it has some very debilitating engineering choices that would make complete remediation essentially impossible. Unfortunately, smaller always means compromised when it comes to computer performance. But they sure don't compromise on how much they charge you for their gimped crap, now do they? 

[ryan]

yeah thats a great idea, does he have fans cough desktop chiller lol. shuts of his 50 computers temps drop by 10c/

 

but honestly id look at the cold water fan idea, could be worth the effort

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, ryan said:

yeah thats a great idea, does he have fans cough desktop chiller lol. shuts of his 50 computers temps drop by 10c/

 

but honestly id look at the cold water fan idea, could be worth the effort

It actually works. You can turn a chiller in to an extremely powerful A/C unit. Probably not ideal for cooling a house, but easily a large room. In any case I would use a big 12-15K BTU window unit for large area, and small 3-5K for all other small rooms in the home if I needed to work as good as central A/C. 

[Tenoroon]

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Plight of the 13900ks and the MSI Z790i Edge:

 

I've been testing the 13900k on the MSI Z790I Edge ITX board in my tried and true workhorse test bench Corsair 540. I'm thinking I might have to send it back but the problem may exist on other ITX boards too.

 

At first, it ran at 5ghz with CB23 at ~35k no matter what I did so I started digging around in the BIOS and MSI defaults to ~307a versus 512a. I manually switched it back and the 13900ks was now running full tilt (ish). In hindsight this might be a purposeful choice on their part.

 

With default power MSI style (supplying too much) and amps adjusted accordingly, the board by nature is limited to 300w (single CPU power in like all ITX boards basically) so initial runs were hitting the 300w cap resulting in ~38k. You can tell at best this board is designed right around a normal 13900k and down.

 

I've been playing with lite load (aka MSI speak for LLC) and undervolting and reached a maximal equivalent of Mode 5 = -0.100 UV which keeps the CPU easily under the 300w cap and CB23 temp at ~68-71c.

 

Then I did some stability runs. Mode 5 crashes out at ~6min but using a stock UV of -0.100 it has no problems since auto LLC can compensate if needed for those pesky transients.

 

All is well, right? Nope.

 

The 13900ks just pushes the poor VRMs to the brink. Even with the fan/cooling system on the VRMs coming to life, once the VRMs hit ~95c the whole board throttles and enters VRM throttling hell as it touches 95c, speeds drop immediately to 3200 (yes, 3200) from 5600. As soon as it backs off to ~93c, they go back up. Touches 95c again, back down they go....rinse/repeat. Meanwhile the CPU is sitting well under 300w in all cases and temps never leave the 70s even at full proper load sustained till the VRMs hit 95c and back down we go.

 

I remember having this exact same problem with an Asrock Z390 Taichi years ago with a 9900ks before switching to an EVGA Z390 Classified and suddenly all those problems went away with better VRMs and VRM cooling.

 

Mind you, this is in a completely open case (as pictured) for testing with plenty of outside cooling. Putting this motherboard in a cramped, hot ITX case with a GPU also in there? I'm sure my normal D2D use would most likely not push the VRMs this hard but still to know under sustained load the VRMs give up the ghost...

 

I retested on my "lowly" Strix Z690 D4 set for a 30 min stability test with the 13900ks and the VRMs held strong the entire time not even breaking into the 80s. Score one for Asus here.

 

I'm thinking of reversing direction and moving the 13900ks to the desktop and building out the 7800X3D into an ITX juggernaut now since it consumes a fraction of the power.

 

 

Ugh....

 

 

If you have some time, try taking the entire VRM heatsink off and aiming a fan on the FETs. I'd assume that board uses some high quality FETs and that in reality, no heatsink should be needed. I'm thinking that maybe the heatsink is trapping heat, doing more harm than good. It definitely isn't built for cooling well as the only fins on the heatsink are on the sides.

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I wonder what would happen if you took apart the motherboards and revised their thermal pad/thermal paste/ heatsink mounting a little bit. Maybe even put one of those big Optimus Fujipoly pads on the entire backside of the motherboard VRM area. Or maybe some small little fans or something. 

 

I thought about at least the thermal pads. This is destined for a very small ITX SFF case so extra/aux fans have no room or space. The VRMs come with a built in fan already. I am going to double check it when I remove it from my test case and before I put it in the N200R for now.

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

That mini ITX setup sounds like it's probably about as screwed up as a desktop can get. Seems more like a turdbook. Are you sure it wasn't made by Dell/Alienware, LOL?

 

You might be able to do some things to lessen its crappiness, but you'll never get it to run as fantastic as a real desktop the way it's built. From what you've described it has some very debilitating engineering choices that would make complete remediation essentially impossible. Unfortunately, smaller always means compromised when it comes to computer performance. But they sure don't compromise on how much they charge you for their gimped crap, now do they? 

 

One of the problems is the Z790i Edge only has a 10+1+1 Phase design and relatively small heatsinks while the Z690 D4 is 16+1 with a much more massive cooling design. It had no problems running the 13900ks at stock or with reduced LLC / UV.

 

I'm loathe to think what would happen with a garbage sample 13900k or ks trying to suck down power on this thing. Basically if you can't get it under ~290w you're going to be capped and leaving performance on the table.

 

I'm so used to even mid bottom tier ZX90 boards all having beefy VRMs especially MSI boards where even their budget Pro line could handle 10th through 13th i9 chips like a champ with killer VRM temps. First time I've run into VRM overheating issues on one of their boards but in their defense it is an ITX board that are known for their performance tradeoffs in exchange for their size (See modern day laptops).

 

1 hour ago, Tenoroon said:

If you have some time, try taking the entire VRM heatsink off and aiming a fan on the FETs. I'd assume that board uses some high quality FETs and that in reality, no heatsink should be needed. I'm thinking that maybe the heatsink is trapping heat, doing more harm than good. It definitely isn't built for cooling well as the only fins on the heatsink are on the sides.

 

I'm not quite sure how to translate that into a small case like eventually a Dan C4 or Lian Li A4 which is the end game. There will be no extra room inside. The Z790i Edge has a fan built into the shroud to pull air across the VRM array.

 

 

After researching the 2-3 other Z790i boards on the market, they all use the same 10+1 105A design.

The B760i boards all use 8+1 designs (even Gigabyte while trying to blow smoke with a double 16+2 market jargon BS).

 

ITX boards can't match their desktop breathen both in VRM nor heatsink density. I could be just asking too much for this board to be able to power a 13900ks through a 30 min full CB23 run at full speed. I was hanging on for a good 15 to 20 minutes before temps finally hit 95c on the VRMs and it started to throttle.

 

I do think I am going to remove the shroud and double check the pipe, heatsink and pad placements and slap in some much higher quality models. This wouldn't be the first time I've cracked open a piece of hardware and the thermal application was an absolute mess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ryan]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

It actually works. You can turn a chiller in to an extremely powerful A/C unit. Probably not ideal for cooling a house, but easily a large room. In any case I would use a big 12-15K BTU window unit for large area, and small 3-5K for all other small rooms in the home if I needed to work as good as central A/C. 

i was thinking of buying him one but im broke atm. maybe tomorrow not sure about prices and tax

[Etern4l]

7 hours ago, ryan said:

how much would it cost for a AC unit in your area. like a portable one, one for the bedroom

Depends on the size of the bedroom, the starting temp, the desired temp, how many hours per day you need this on etc. Obviously depends on your electricity costs. Need to do the math, but I would ballpark at $50-100/p.m. in the summer.

 

7 hours ago, Reciever said:

 

I basically work in those temperatures, if not a bit higher due to the heat generation from various (thousands) of PC's in a warehouse. I may have to quit though, HR is not approving my sick leave, and also not allowing me to return. Im not a supervisor or manager yet I manage up to 18 people for 10 different projects in a given day but private and public sectors with varying clearance levels.

 

They have been abusing me for some time now, though there is an offer to become a Project Manager. I didnt want to take it as a means of self preservation but this might be the only option on the table if I am to stay with this company. I know the PM's well and its their boss who made the offer, who has similar thought processes in terms of operations (where he used to operate). The title could prove useful in future endeavors though.

 

I despise crossroads.

You work in 108F/42C? Geez. Can’t you sue them? (easier said than done, I know, especially if you are still in) I mean this must be affecting your health.

[ryan]

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

You work in 108F/42C? Geez.

it would kill you. 

 

High environmental temperatures can be dangerous to your body. In the range of 90˚ and 105˚F (32˚ and 40˚C), you can experience heat cramps and exhaustion. Between 105˚ and 130˚F (40˚ and 54˚C), heat exhaustion is more likely. You should limit your activities at this range. An environmental temperature over 130˚F (54˚C) often leads to heatstroke.

 

source

Hot and Cold: Extreme Temperature Safety (healthline.com)

 

if he is told to work in that temp he could sue for alot of money, worlds easiest case to win unless of course the judge is handicapped.

 

 

this doesn't suprise me, as one time as I was about to be promoted to district manger of the water bottles, I had to wear a mascot suit outside in 45c weather and it was against the rules to drink water or take breaks, so I had to quit. lmao i think he was joking or it was a hyperbole

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Etern4l said:

You work in 108F/42C? Geez. Can’t you sue them? (easier said than done, I know, especially if you are still in) I mean this must be affecting your health.

Everyone in the state of Arizona that has a job involving working outdoors works in that environment or worse. It's unavoidable and a fact of life. You drink lots of water, keep something on your head and keep your skin covered as a matter of life or death. Imagine pouring hot asphalt in the middle of the day in the summer here. Or putting their roof on a house. You wear gloves because everything is too hot to touch with your bare hands. When you dump out your partially consumed water bottle because the water is too hot to drink it actually boils on the pavement.

[Etern4l]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Everyone in the state of Arizona that has a job involving working outdoors works in that environment or worse. It's unavoidable and a fact of life. You drink lots of water, keep something on your head and keep your skin covered as a matter of life or death. Imagine pouring hot asphalt in the middle of the day in the summer here. Or putting their roof on a house. You wear gloves because everything is too hot to touch with your bare hands. When you jump out you're partially consumed water bottle because the water is too hot it actually boils on the pavement.

There is a difference between an unavoidable situation and an employer skimping on aircon for employees working indoors. Would be interesting to know what it looks like from the legal perspective in @Reciever’s state.

[tps3443]

9 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

I thought about at least the thermal pads. This is destined for a very small ITX SFF case so extra/aux fans have no room or space. The VRMs come with a built in fan already. I am going to double check it when I remove it from my test case and before I put it in the N200R for now.

 

 

One of the problems is the Z790i Edge only has a 10+1+1 Phase design and relatively small heatsinks while the Z690 D4 is 16+1 with a much more massive cooling design. It had no problems running the 13900ks at stock or with reduced LLC / UV.

 

I'm loathe to think what would happen with a garbage sample 13900k or ks trying to suck down power on this thing. Basically if you can't get it under ~290w you're going to be capped and leaving performance on the table.

 

I'm so used to even mid bottom tier ZX90 boards all having beefy VRMs especially MSI boards where even their budget Pro line could handle 10th through 13th i9 chips like a champ with killer VRM temps. First time I've run into VRM overheating issues on one of their boards but in their defense it is an ITX board that are known for their performance tradeoffs in exchange for their size (See modern day laptops).

 

 

I'm not quite sure how to translate that into a small case like eventually a Dan C4 or Lian Li A4 which is the end game. There will be no extra room inside. The Z790i Edge has a fan built into the shroud to pull air across the VRM array.

 

 

After researching the 2-3 other Z790i boards on the market, they all use the same 10+1 105A design.

The B760i boards all use 8+1 designs (even Gigabyte while trying to blow smoke with a double 16+2 market jargon BS).

 

ITX boards can't match their desktop breathen both in VRM nor heatsink density. I could be just asking too much for this board to be able to power a 13900ks through a 30 min full CB23 run at full speed. I was hanging on for a good 15 to 20 minutes before temps finally hit 95c on the VRMs and it started to throttle.

 

I do think I am going to remove the shroud and double check the pipe, heatsink and pad placements and slap in some much higher quality models. This wouldn't be the first time I've cracked open a piece of hardware and the thermal application was an absolute mess.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I imagine you can get those VRM temps in check, and you got the know how to do it. I would grab some of that high heat transfer thermal puddy. I saw a guy yield crazy reductions on a Z790 Apex with that stuff. 

[ryan]

I guess everywhere's different. here in canada if it hits 43c everything is beach related. I can't see anyone working in 42c weather unless it a norm and has to be put up with but I heard that kinda heat can kill you in minutes but who knows with all the false information out there

[Etern4l]

I can’t work very effectively above 30C -productivity goes down significantly. Any employer forcing people to do computer work at 40C is a toxic and moronic org, probably at odds with regs in many countries.

[Reciever]

6 hours ago, ryan said:

it would kill you. 

 

High environmental temperatures can be dangerous to your body. In the range of 90˚ and 105˚F (32˚ and 40˚C), you can experience heat cramps and exhaustion. Between 105˚ and 130˚F (40˚ and 54˚C), heat exhaustion is more likely. You should limit your activities at this range. An environmental temperature over 130˚F (54˚C) often leads to heatstroke.

 

source

Hot and Cold: Extreme Temperature Safety (healthline.com)

 

if he is told to work in that temp he could sue for alot of money, worlds easiest case to win unless of course the judge is handicapped.

 

 

this doesn't suprise me, as one time as I was about to be promoted to district manger of the water bottles, I had to wear a mascot suit outside in 45c weather and it was against the rules to drink water or take breaks, so I had to quit. lmao i think he was joking or it was a hyperbole

I don't employ the use of hyperbole. 

 

As far as I could tell there is no laws on the books that prevent working in those conditions as we have outdoor workers on the daily for things that @Mr. Fox has already detailed. I have access to water, I take my legally and policy enforced breaks.

 

Then you'd have to argue semantics or push the blame to the landlord that holds the lease. 

 

I'm not exactly complaining about that, those are constants every year it's not going away. My issue stems strictly from abusing my position when it's convenient for my leadership to do so. Then pretend everything has been in the straight and narrow the whole time. Those are things that irritate me. 

[electrosoft]

I remember thinking my 7970 was just a monster GPU. I loved that thing. Good seeing AMD make such massive strides over the years in performance...

 

 

 

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I imagine you can get those VRM temps in check, and you got the know how to do it. I would grab some of that high heat transfer thermal puddy. I saw a guy yield crazy reductions on a Z790 Apex with that stuff. 

 

Yeah I have thermal pad paradise over here of all types including fujipoly normal and extreme. The specs say they use 7W/mK so there's room for improvement just right there. I refuse to work with K5 Pro ever again. It is messy and it eventually breaks down and seeps moisture. That is what happened in my X170SM-G after a year or so.

 

I'm happy with the performance as the 13900ks is running full tilt no problem till the VRMs eventually overheat. The problem is by design itx boards are capped at ~300w max (realistically 290w before you start bouncing off that) so from an MSI perspective you will hit that cap or heat that will throttle before the VRMs. Toss in a good silicon sample that can run well under that and runs cool? Suddenly the VRMs become suspect as the chip isn't throttling anywhere else and the board has to sustained that load.

 

All Z790i motherboards are built around a 10+1 delivery design and only MSI and Gigabyte offer 8000+ support. Asus is next at 7600 on their Strix. The rest are sub 7000.

 

Next up is testing these DDR5 sticks (A-die 2x32GB, M-die 2x16GB).

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, ryan said:

I guess everywhere's different. here in canada if it hits 43c everything is beach related. I can't see anyone working in 42c weather unless it a norm and has to be put up with but I heard that kinda heat can kill you in minutes but who knows with all the false information out there

Yes, it can definitely kill you. Easily if you are not smart, but sometimes it gets you even if you are. The trouble with "the dry heat" scenario is it can be ridiculously hot and you do not realize it because of the lack of humidity. Your body work effectively, sweat dries instantly and you're not drenched. You dehydrate and suddenly, and without warning, you're hit by heat stroke and very sick or dead. Drink lots of water and protect yourself from the sun and you'll be too hot, but live to tell about it, LOL.

1 hour ago, Reciever said:

I don't employ the use of hyperbole. 

 

As far as I could tell there is no laws on the books that prevent working in those conditions as we have outdoor workers on the daily for things that @Mr. Fox has already detailed. I have access to water, I take my legally and policy enforced breaks.

 

Then you'd have to argue semantics or push the blame to the landlord that holds the lease. 

 

I'm not exactly complaining about that, those are constants every year it's not going away. My issue stems strictly from abusing my position when it's convenient for my leadership to do so. Then pretend everything has been in the straight and narrow the whole time. Those are things that irritate me. 

There is nothing illegal about requiring staff to work in harsh conditions as long as they are consistent with the job description and not something nefariously induced by the employer. Most states are at-will employment scenarios. If the working conditions are objectionable, the employee is free to look for another job that suits their fancy. Reasonable accommodations are required for those that develop actual disabilities while engaging in their occupation, as long as the accommodations allow them to continue performing the requirements of the job. 

  

7 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

I refuse to work with K5 Pro ever again.

There are other absolutely outstanding thermal puttys that are very dense, almost like kneaded eraser, only stickier. EVGA used that on the VRMs of the 3090 Kingpin. It works very well. Much better than thermal pads. They're not as messy as K5 Pro and don't seep silicon oils.

[electrosoft]

Hmmmm, no 5000 (aka Blackwell) series till 2025 from Nvidia: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-to-introduce-ada-lovelace-successor-in-2025 versus the normal 2 year cadence (IE no 2024 launch).

 

You know there is going to be a refresh in there either this fall or early 2024.

 

Looks like I'll be getting at least 2.5yrs+ out of this 4090

 

15 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

There are other absolutely outstanding thermal puttys that are very dense, almost like kneaded eraser, only stickier. EVGA used that on the VRMs of the 3090 Kingpin. It works very well. Much better than thermal pads. They're not as messy as K5 Pro and don't seep silicon oils.

 

I'll have to take a look. The K5 Pro really left a bad taste in my mouth to the point I'm fine with 17K/mH Fujipoly (of which I have an abundance along with 11K/mH) unless the gains are substantive.

 

*Sigh* EVGA.....

 

 

 

 

[Reciever]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes, it can definitely kill you. Easily if you are not smart, but sometimes it gets you even if you are. The trouble with "the dry heat" scenario is it can be ridiculously hot and you do not realize it because of the lack of humidity. Your body work effectively, sweat dries instantly and you're not drenched. You dehydrate and suddenly, and without warning, you're hit by heat stroke and very sick or dead. Drink lots of water and protect yourself from the sun and you'll be too hot, but live to tell about it, LOL.

There is nothing illegal about requiring staff to work in harsh conditions as long as they are consistent with the job description and not something nefariously induced by the employer. Most states are at-will employment scenarios. If the working conditions are objectionable, the employee is free to look for another job that suits their fancy. Reasonable accommodations are required for those that develop actual disabilities while engaging in their occupation, as long as the accommodations allow them to continue performing the requirements of the job. 

  

There are other absolutely outstanding thermal puttys that are very dense, almost like kneaded eraser, only stickier. EVGA used that on the VRMs of the 3090 Kingpin. It works very well. Much better than thermal pads. They're not as messy as K5 Pro and don't seep silicon oils.

I don't work in direct sunlight, which has its own list of concerns that you would want mitigated. The trade off is greater heat exposure. 

 

I use a product directed at marathoner types called lyte show, basically all the things you want for proper hydration beyond just water alone. I was a little low on my potassium so I'll need to supplement that a bit more otherwise I should be fine. The main issue was the flu interrupting my bodies internal processes. 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I'll have to take a look. The K5 Pro really left a bad taste in my mouth to the point I'm fine with 17K/mH Fujipoly (of which I have an abundance along with 11K/mH) unless the gains are substantive.

 

*Sigh* EVGA.....

Yeah, really sad about EVGA... first GPUs, now mobos. The Z690 Dark is still way better than the Z790 Apex. I'm not dissatisfied with the Apex, but disappointed with the lower quality at a higher price. It doesn't overclock with equal stability and the build quality is notably inferior. And, no... that does not suprise me even a little. Kind of expected that.

 

Thermal putty is sometimes available from Mouser or Digi-Key, but limited stock (often out of stock) and too expensive. Here is an example though, which is not grossly overpriced. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805073778959.html

[Etern4l]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

There is nothing illegal about requiring staff to work in harsh conditions as long as they are consistent with the job description and not something nefariously induced by the employer.

 

Yeah, neither the US nor the UK regs specify max temperature , although the UK rules say the temperature must be "reasonable".  For one thing, many of those rules were written 50 years ago, when hot conditions were a less prevalent problem.

 

Employment at will is strictly great for employers, and perhaps for the lucky folks who have plenty of alternative good job options available at a moment's notice.

[Reciever]

59 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Yeah, neither the US nor the UK regs specify max temperature , although the UK rules say the temperature must be "reasonable".  For one thing, many of those rules were written 50 years ago, when hot conditions were a less prevalent problem.

 

Employment at will is strictly great for employers, and perhaps for the lucky folks who have plenty of alternative good job options available at a moment's notice.

 

They would probably want to use reasonable since legally it would difficult to come up with a labor law regarding temperature when its always in a state of flux.

 

At-will works both ways, there is no reason to give "2 weeks notice" in states that have at-will, at least not in my opinion. Especially when you dont really get the same treatment, at least in my spot. Most of the people I have seen give notice were shown the door that moment.

 

I thought I could make something of their production (in fact, already determined how to do it, and proofed) but corporate politics once again takes center stage.

[Etern4l]

45 minutes ago, Reciever said:

 

They would probably want to use reasonable since legally it would difficult to come up with a labor law regarding temperature when its always in a state of flux.

 

At-will works both ways, there is no reason to give "2 weeks notice" in states that have at-will, at least not in my opinion. Especially when you dont really get the same treatment, at least in my spot. Most of the people I have seen give notice were shown the door that moment.

 

I thought I could make something of their production (in fact, already determined how to do it, and proofed) but corporate politics once again takes center stage.

 

Sure, there is no reason to give notice unless it's contractually or legally required, other than perhaps to avoid burning bridges if the relationship had been very good. Where no employment-at-will applies, however, you may be shown the door (for security reasons, as an example), but have to get paid throughout your contractual (and some minimum statutory notice period, such as 2-4 weeks) anyway. Just a bit of protection to even out the quite unbalanced relationship between corporations and people. Apparently the point is moot in the US though - at-will is the default everywhere, with the minor exception of Montana which also has some probatory period protection. Oh well, you guys get paid more to compensate for this.

[ryan]

yeah I was just joking around sorry, here in canada temps rarely pass 42c so it seems extreme and ludacris to work in anything near 42c but you guys in the states are used to that kinda weather and I get that. as for laws I don't think there is one saying you are exempt

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Hmmmm, no 5000 (aka Blackwell) series till 2025 from Nvidia: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-to-introduce-ada-lovelace-successor-in-2025 versus the normal 2 year cadence (IE no 2024 launch).

 

You know there is going to be a refresh in there either this fall or early 2024.

 

Looks like I'll be getting at least 2.5yrs+ out of this 4090

With a bad/lower sales of 4000 series cards they will have a flood of them at end of summer/fall 2024. And people are more careful with their money. No loss for Nvidia continue with a small refresh of Ada chips until beginning of 2025. If people want graphics cards.... This is what we offer. People are still willing to pay premium for 3000 series cards, so.... Why not? And newer gen wafers wont be cheaper.... Only more expensive https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-expected-to-charge-25000usd-per-2nm-wafer

 

Isn't this the box you got bro @Mr. Fox?

TEST29

New reference for flexible high-end cases?

be quiet! Dark Base Pro 901

 

[tps3443]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, really sad about EVGA... first GPUs, now mobos. The Z690 Dark is still way better than the Z790 Apex. I'm not dissatisfied with the Apex, but disappointed with the lower quality at a higher price. It doesn't overclock with equal stability and the build quality is notably inferior. And, no... that does not suprise me even a little. Kind of expected that.

 

Thermal putty is sometimes available from Mouser or Digi-Key, but limited stock (often out of stock) and too expensive. Here is an example though, which is not grossly overpriced. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805073778959.html

There has to be something at play here going on. Pretty sure a Z690 Dark is not going to outpace the Z790 Apex. I would try some different ram or something. Maybe some different bios or FW off of Bianbao.net
 

Think about that for a moment. These are really great overclocking motherboards.
 

Now I will say, when I first got my Z790 Apex I couldn’t get my Team Group 7200’s to run like my Unify-X ran them, I was stuck at 7800 range. Not sure if this was bios, growing pains, or just swapping out ram that fixed it. But, I’m pretty sure I can get DDR5 8700 out of my ram if I really really tried.