*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Raiderman]

14 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Glutton for punishment update:

 

So I purchased another 7900XTX.....

 

....it will be here next week.

 

I'm sorry.

 

🤣

Not sorry... it's an excellent gpu!

 

9 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

noice, staying below 95C on full bore 🙂 whats your cooling setup? and what cpu tweaks implemented?

@jaybee83 It's a custom Raijintek loop. It's been 8 or so months since installing it. Definitely needs repaste and flush. I do the undervolt on all cores negative 30 via PBO.

 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

 

I think he would be happy with a normal AIO for a couple of months while he gets his new home in order. The question is how long would he last without high-end components and custom watercooling.

 

For my workstation, I don't use any custom watercooling anymore, and I'm thinking about selling my EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra Hybrid that I was using in that workstation. I replaced it with my A770 for the time being until I make my decision. 

 

So it is possible for him to hold back but for how long. 

Are you using a 13900K+ in any scenario that would push it to 90%+ utilisation for extended periods?

 

I can see the following reasons against using a custom loop:

 

1. Lack of know-how / insufficient understanding of the benefits

2. Fear of leaks

3. Extra setup cost

4. Air+AIO cooling already results in a pleasantly quiet and efficient system

5. Voided GPU warranty

6. Extra setup hassle

 

So in the case of @tps3443 running a 14900K system only 5 and 6 might apply, as he already has a custom loop setup in place.

 

I did not include extra space requirements as a consideration, since an external chiller/rad is optional.

 

The reason my PC is not running a custom loop is a combination of 1-3, 5, 6, and initially 4 (with 12th gen). I wish I did not spend all that time trying to satisfy 4. with 13900K. Would have been much better off switching to a custom CPU loop at least.

 

 

 

 

[Raiderman]

14 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Are you using a 13900K+ in any scenario that would push it to 90%+ utilisation for extended periods?

 

I can see the following reasons against using a custom loop:

 

1. Lack of know-how / insufficient understanding of the benefits

2. Fear of leaks

3. Extra setup cost

4. Air+AIO cooling already results in a pleasantly quiet an efficient system

5. Voided GPU warranty

6. Extra setup hassle

 

So in the case of @tps3443 running a 14900K system only 5 and 6 might apply, as he already has a custom loop setup in place.

 

I did not include extra space requirements as a consideration, since an external chiller/rad is optional.

 

The reason my PC is not running a custom loop is a combination of 1-3, 5, 6, and initially 4 (with 12th gen). I wish I did not spend all that time trying to satisfy 4. with 13900K. Would have been much better off switching to a custom CPU loop at least.

 

 

 

 

Custom loops can be a pain sometimes. It helps to have quick disconnects and drain valves. Otherwise switching hardware is a messy ordeal.

[Mr. Fox]

22 hours ago, tps3443 said:

@Mr. Fox I’d test both 14900K’s and settle for whichever can produce about 1.300-1.320V under load stock at 6Ghz. Because once you pop the IHS and run direct die it’ll take off another 0.040-0.050 more under load putting you at or below 1.270V equivalent to your KS. I do not think the Bios VFcurves are comparable between 13900KS and 14900K. So I wouldn’t go by that too much. 
 

I do think SP97+ is pretty dang good though. Many of these lower SP chips are on direct die 6Ghz+ doing 1.243V-1.260V load. So I think you will be surprised. 
 

Also, check the E-Cores and ring as well. Both on 14th gen are pretty amazing. Unless it’s a complete dud chip lol.

Well, the one from NewEgg arrived and I am not impressed. SP92 overall, P99, E80, MC82. Hopefully, the one from Amazon will be better so I can send this crappy sample back to NewEgg to sell to a gamerboy. That is at the bottom of the barrel from the samples the Igor's Lab binned.

1 minute ago, Raiderman said:

Custom loops can be a pain sometimes. It helps to have quick disconnects and drain valves. Otherwise switching hardware is a messy ordeal.

100%. They're easier and better if you set them up right from the start. If you build it closed loop like an AIO you're not doing yourself any favors.

[Etern4l]

8 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Custom loops can be a pain sometimes. It helps to have quick disconnects and drain valves. Otherwise switching hardware is a messy ordeal.

Definitely. I would only go with quick disconnects if GPUs were involved.

[Rage Set]

14 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Are you using a 13900K+ in any scenario that would push it to 90%+ utilisation for extended periods?

 

I can see the following reasons against using a custom loop:

 

1. Lack of know-how / insufficient understanding of the benefits

2. Fear of leaks

3. Extra setup cost

4. Air+AIO cooling already results in a pleasantly quiet an efficient system

5. Voided GPU warranty

6. Extra setup hassle

 

So in the case of @tps3443 running a 14900K system only 5 and 6 might apply, as he already has a custom loop setup in place.

 

I did not include extra space requirements as a consideration, since an external chiller/rad is optional.

 

The reason my PC is not running a custom loop is a combination of 1-3, 5, 6, and initially 4 (with 12th gen). I wish I did not spend all that time trying to satisfy 4. with 13900K. Would have been much better off switching to a custom CPU loop at least.

 

 

 

 

 

In my case, the workstation CPU/GPU does get worked hard during multiple renders for periods that can exceed an hour or so. I am using a 3960X which hits 85C+ using my air cooler (Ice Giant ProSiphon Elite), but the GPU never goes over 60C due to the hybrid AIO design. 

 

I can see number 1 being a huge hurdle for most PC users, even the enthusiasts. I only had one leak in all of the custom watercooled builds I've made, for both myself and clients. That leak was due to my own mistake and it didn't kill anything.

 

As for voided GPU warranties, it's illegal in the US to void a warranty if they can't prove you damaged it. I remove the Warranty Voided if Removed sticker on purpose, and I never had a warranty denied due to its removal. 

 

I use custom watercooling on four of my seven computers. And the only reason why is due to the yearly maintenance. Otherwise, they all would be watercooled.  

[Etern4l]

8 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

 

In my case, the workstation CPU/GPU does get worked hard during multiple renders for periods that can exceed an hour or so. I am using a 3960X which hits 85C+ using my air cooler (Ice Giant ProSiphon Elite), but the GPU never goes over 60C due to the hybrid AIO design. 

 

I can see number 1 being a huge hurdle for most PC users, even the enthusiasts. I only had one leak in all of the custom watercooled builds I've made, for both myself and clients. That leak was due to my own mistake and it didn't kill anything.

 

As for voided GPU warranties, it's illegal in the US to void a warranty if they can't prove you damaged it. I remove the Warranty Voided if Removed sticker on purpose, and I never had a warranty denied due to its removal. 

 

I use custom watercooling on four of my seven computers. And the only reason why is due to the yearly maintenance. Otherwise, they all would be watercooled.  

TRX4 has almost 3x the surface area of LGA1700 for a CPU slower (and less power hungry?) than 13900K. Just like Sapphire Rapids, you could probably just run it on air.

 

Why would the annual maintenance be any more of a requirement for a custom loop than it is for an AIO? AIOs come with long guarantees although I don’t think those guarantee no performance degradation. If anything, it would be reasonable/intuitive to assume that the smaller AIOs need to be serviced more often to maintain top performance.

Good point about the warranties, just included for completeness’ sake. Didn’t really think @tps3443 would be worried about that lol

 

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The guy that bought my Z690 Dark purchased a 7900XTX to use in it and he has been pulling his hair out with stuttering problems with games. Trying to help him out, came across this that might help.

 

https://community.amd.com/t5/drivers-software/here-is-a-solution-for-stuttering-issue-on-radeon-cards/td-p/653693

 

I went through some of these issues back in January 2023 before AMD broke their drivers even more for WoW and you could kinda get it going for testing in DX12. For AMD, the microstutters are more prevalent in DX12 titles but they seem to have DX11 overall on lock except for, well, WoW. I found the fix was to lock power, clear cache and cap fps in RT and have M$ power plan set to high power / max performance along with a minimal (drivers only) install and nuke as much low power state BS as possible (That's what that registry mod does). That stupid defaulting to low power sleep states has been around for years. I remember it with my 5700xt and nuking it.

 

In AMD's defense (sorta), I had no problems in Fallout 76, Hogwarts, Diablo IV and more once all the above steps were taken.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Not sorry... it's an excellent gpu!

 

Well, hopefully third time is the charm but as this won't be targeting WoW, that will remove a lot of the issues. I will be installing and testing WoW of course though and see how it is 3-4 months removed from my MSI 7900XTX and 12+ removed from my XFX 7900XTX.

 

I can't remember the last time I picked up a white GPU though. Mix it up and go for something different. I also know it will fit in the Cougar Dust 2 ITX case while every >=330mm GPU will not (as I found out with the MSI 😞 ).

 

 

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

Well, the one from NewEgg arrived and I am not impressed. SP92 overall, P99, E80, MC82. Hopefully, the one from Amazon will be better so I can send this crappy sample back to NewEgg to sell to a gamerboy. That is at the bottom of the barrel from the samples the Igor's Lab binned.

 

Yeah, if a 14900KS is on the horizon this is what started to happen with the 13900k and 12900k later cycle chips. Just garbage bins with a few bright spots here and there. The problem is they have juiced this node so much that there are truly garbage chips passing as "ok" even moreso.

 

So many SP92/93 chips or even SP95 chips with 1.504 6ghz vids and the SP scores are only being pumped up  by better E-cores. What does the V/F curve look like? How's the 5800mhz? Your luck, it will have a lights out awesome IMC. 🙂

 

 

[electrosoft]

I'm a hustla baby!

 

MSI sponsored video sends him a whole bunch of items. He opts to personally keep the case (which he was fawning over at CES) and 1300w PSU for his own custom build (and future review video to satisfy sponsors).

 

Other items bought by discord members.

 

Hawks his custom binned memory kits he will have up for sale (and used in the review).

 

"Game recognizes game and you're looking awfully familiar" -JayZ

 

 

[Rage Set]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

TRX4 has almost 3x the surface area of LGA1700 for a CPU slower (and less power hungry?) than 13900K. Just like Sapphire Rapids, you could probably just run it on air.

 

Why would the annual maintenance be any more of a requirement for a custom loop than it is for an AIO? AIOs come with long guarantees although I don’t think those guarantee no performance degradation. If anything, it would be reasonable/intuitive to assume that the smaller AIOs need to be serviced more often to maintain top performance.

Good point about the warranties, just included for completeness’ sake. Didn’t really think @tps3443 would be worried about that lol

 

 

When I was actually manually overclocking the 3960X, I was pulling over 400W for the CPU alone. That was at 4.6 allcore. The CPU and 2080 TI were custom watercooled. The CPU and 2080 TI's had their own loop, each cooled by a MO-RA3 rad and Noctua iPPC 3000 fans. Fun times, lol. 

 

Still didn't hold a candle to my former 7980XE, which pulled well over 500W. I think @Mr. Fox got it over that when he chilled it.

 

Most AIO's are sealed and while you can get in some units, they are usually meant to be throwaways. That is normally a positive for custom watercooling components, you can clean and reuse them on multiple builds....unless the socket changes drastically or in the case of a GPU, you get a new one. I have over 10 different CPU blocks that I've collected (for use in my own personal builds) that can still be used, even on 1700 and AM5. 

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

What I think, and again only speculation, is that AMD is following the silly path of Micro$lop and focusing way too much on power management instead of allowing the GPU to do what is best for performance at the exclusion of all other considerations. Focusing on using as little power as possible almost always results in undesirable performance behaviors. Trying to have it both ways is generally a fool's errand. Striving for dynamic clock behavior algorithms often produces undesirable results as well.

 

Yup, the payback for Mr. Azors bragging about AMDs graphics cards have lower power consumption than equal Nvidia cards. In short... F. Azor said AMD focus more on lower power consumption than Nvidia. And they have had problems with too high power draw in idle state/dual monitors for their new and shiny Radeon GPUs. I'm sure many of those fixes should never have been implemented. And they keep up with same trash for lower end CPUs and Jokebooks with AMD hardware. I'm happy Intel and Nvidia don't offer this disgusting mess. And AMDs quality control and QC is equal messed up (read my many posts about this topic in earlier posts).

AMD Set to Fix Ryzen 8000G APU STAPM Throttling Issue... .

First, it's essential to understand what the Skin Temperature-Aware Power Management (STAPM) feature is and what it does. Introduced by AMD in back 2014, STAPM is a key feature within their mobile processors.

AMD To Release BIOS Update to Fix Performance Throttling ...

 

Btw. Arctic is on the way destroy one of the main reason for why their AIOs sell. Bombed or better say dumbed  down with more RGB... No thanks. 

 

 

Arctic Liquid Freezer III AIO CPU Cooler Pictured

[Mr. Fox]

22 hours ago, Rage Set said:

Still didn't hold a candle to my former 7980XE, which pulled well over 500W. I think @Mr. Fox got it over that when he chilled it.

7960X and 7980XE ranged between 900W and 1100W from the wall running Cinbench at 5.0GHz all core on chilled water. I had to buy a new circuit breaker and move up to the next amp size just to keep the lights on when benching that monster setup. The lights would still dim a bit, but the circuit breakers held. And, it did slightly melt the insulation on my EPS cables. It was awesome. That was a real metal test of the EVGA SuperNova 1600 P2 and X299 Dark. Both held up like a champ.

[Etern4l]

25 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

 

When I was actually manually overclocking the 3960X, I was pulling over 400W for the CPU alone.

 

13900K can probably be pushed into that territory, given that it "achieves" 330W+ stock, and again: at 1/3 the die size of a Threadripper. It's nuts.

 

25 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

Most AIO's are sealed and while you can get in some units, they are usually meant to be throwaways. That is normally a positive for custom watercooling components, you can clean and reuse them on multiple builds....

 

Yes, but my question is: do you absolutely need to annually service a custom loop if there is no apparent performance issue? Best practice to prolong pump and rad life I guess.

[Mr. Fox]

8 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Yes, but my question is: do you absolutely need to annually service a custom loop if there is no apparent performance issue? Best practice to prolong pump and rad life I guess.

Good question. Short answer: no.

 

But, that depends. Case-by-case. Might need to be more often or less often. It depends on what kind of coolant you are using, how clean the loop was at the start, whether you use in-line filters (I do) and how often you take things apart, dump out some of the coolant and replace it with fresh coolant. If you are using straight distilled water it will require more maintenance than something with a biocide and corrosion inhibitor. If you run colored coolant or use aesthetic coloring additives it will plug things up and get kind of nasty. 

 

I have very little maintenance using automotive antifreeze/coolant (50/50 premix). It has additives that help it stay clean. It might increase the temps 1-2°C over pure distilled water, but it is definitely worth it.

 

You will start noticing temps getting higher as the fins in the waterblock jet plates get clogged up. That also happens with an AIO, but they are not as user-friendly in terms of ease of maintenance.

[Etern4l]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Good question. Short answer: no.

 

But, that depends. Case-by-case. What kind of coolant you are using, how clean the loop was at the start, whether you use in-line filters (I do) and how often you take things apart, dump out some of the coolant and replace it with fresh coolant. If you are using straight distilled water it will require more maintenance that something with a biocide and corrosion inhibitor. If you run colored coolant or use aesthetic coloring additives it will plug things up and get kind of nasty. 

 

I have very little maintenance using automotive antifreeze/coolant (50/50 premix). It has additives that help it stay clean. It might increase the temps 1-2°C over pure distilled water, but it is definitely worth it.

 

Thanks. I guess another difference between AIOs and many custom loops is that the former tend to use opaque black tubing, presumably to optimise durability. Clearly this would limit bio growth, but apparently the other benefit is that clear tubes can leach some plasticizer compounds into the loop. The recommendation here is to use black EPDM tubing.

 

 

 

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

TRX4 has almost 3x the surface area of LGA1700 for a CPU slower (and less power hungry?) than 13900K. Just like Sapphire Rapids, you could probably just run it on air.

 

Why would the annual maintenance be any more of a requirement for a custom loop than it is for an AIO? AIOs come with long guarantees although I don’t think those guarantee no performance degradation. If anything, it would be reasonable/intuitive to assume that the smaller AIOs need to be serviced more often to maintain top performance.

Good point about the warranties, just included for completeness’ sake. Didn’t really think @tps3443 would be worried about that lol

 

 

I put up my custom loop with black tubes. Pure water with a a dash of premix clear and Automotive glycol. Have been running like this for over two years. I only take out 3dl of the fluid and swap in new each 1/2 year. The fluid I swap out is clean as day one. Clear tubes is trash. And the very dark tinted glass doors on the Corsair 1000D help reduce the sun light into the case and loop. All black bro @electrosoft🤩

 

Edit. I even made a black cover I can turn to the glass door to stop sun light

 

[Mr. Fox]

I prefer the clear tubing so I can easily see what is going on inside of it. I have some tubing that has been in use for more than 2 years and I am not having any issues. But, if you get really cheap tubing it might not hold up as well. The Corsair tubing is too soft and easily collapses or gets kinked from bending. I use tubing that is fairly stiff and designed to stand up to chemical exposures. In fact, what I usually use is an industrial product and I usually buy it from Home Depot, LOL. It is a bit stiff and unwieldy but it works well considering that most of my loop is external. The runs of tubing inside of the case are fairly straight and flexibility is not as important if everything was kept inside of the case.

[Papusan]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I prefer the clear tubing so it can easily see what is going on inside of it. I have some tubing that has been in use for more than 2 years and I am not having any issues. But, if you get really cheap tubing it might not hold up as well. The Corsair tubing is too soft and easily collapses or gets kinked from bending. I use tubing that is fairly stiff and designed to stand up to chemical exposures. In fact, I usually buy it from Home Depot, LOL.

 

Clear tubes and colored premix in combination with higher water temp is the main problems for clogging the loop. I see what I need to see from the tube reservoir. And I have it never topped up. And easy to see if there is bubbles or gunk in there.

 

If AIOs had clear tubes they would be useless after 2 years use.

[Mr. Fox]

1 minute ago, Papusan said:

 

Clear tubes and colored premix is the main problems for clogging the loop. I see what I need to see from the tube reservoir. And I have it never topped up. And easy to see if there is bubbles or gunk in there.

I used colored stuff one time and it permanently cured that mistake. It might look OK at first, but it gets old looking at colored water and it definitely is crap in terms of clogging things up and staining your parts. In a word, I found it to be a nightmare that will never be repeated again, LOL. The coloring material is like adding trash to your loop.

[tps3443]

I did a re-paste with Kryonaut Extreme on my CPU and dropped 4C on everything. 😁 I shaved off about 2 watts of power, and it made a huge difference. I was using TF7 before which had 650 hours on that mount since getting this 14900kfr CPU. Every single core dropped by exactly 4C. Identical water temp/ room temp. 
 

I’m seriously wondering how that’s even possible. I did use some Flitz polish on my waterblock cold plate and mirrored it up real nice. But that’s all I did. I’ll take it! Worth the $20 bucks I think. 😎

 

BEFORE

 

AFTER

 

 

[Etern4l]

My long and painful quest for the ultimate non-LM TIM concluded with PTM7958 SP. I think it has been running without a hitch for unprecedented several months now.

[electrosoft]

53 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Yup, the payback for Mr. Azors bragging about AMDs graphics cards have lower power consumption than equal Nvidia cards. In short... F. Azor said AMD focus more on lower power consumption than Nvidia. And they have had problems with too high power draw in idle state/dual monitors for their new and shiny Radeon GPUs. I'm sure many of those fixes should never have been implemented. And they keep up with same trash for lower end CPUs and Jokebooks with AMD hardware. I'm happy Intel and Nvidia don't offer this disgusting mess. And AMDs quality control and QC is equal messed up (read my many posts about this topic in earlier posts).

AMD Set to Fix Ryzen 8000G APU STAPM Throttling Issue... .

First, it's essential to understand what the Skin Temperature-Aware Power Management (STAPM) feature is and what it does. Introduced by AMD in back 2014, STAPM is a key feature within their mobile processors.

AMD To Release BIOS Update to Fix Performance Throttling ...

 

Btw. Arctic is on the way destroy one of the main reason for why their AIOs sell. Bombed or better say dumbed  down with more RGB... No thanks. 

 

 

Arctic Liquid Freezer III AIO CPU Cooler Pictured

 

Arctic, like all companies, follow the money and what buyers want and the bean counters must have seen their RGB AIOs were selling well enough to the point to "extend and embrace" RGB even moreso in their AIO line up.

 

I'm ok with RGB but outside of targeted builds, I do not go out of my way to light up my case like the 4th of July.

 

6 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I did a re-paste with Kryonaut Extreme on my CPU and dropped 4C on everything. 😁 I shaved off about 2 watts of power, and it made a huge difference. I was using TF7 before which had 650 hours on that mount since getting this 14900kfr CPU. Every single core dropped by 4C. Identical water temp/ room temp.

 

All I've heard are good things about Kryonaut Extreme. I tended to shy away from them ever since that run of bad Kryonaut batches along with just being outclassed by other pastes but I might have to give them a try again.

 

 

[Etern4l]

10 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

All I've heard are good things about Kryonaut Extreme. I tended to shy away from them ever since that run of bad Kryonaut batches along with just being outclassed by other pastes but I might have to give them a try again.

 

I've read mixed opinions. My concern would be durability under extended load. Kryonaut products tend to target the OC community where durability is of relatively low importance.

 

And yes, batch quality variance probably plays a role here. We all know @tps3443 is a lucky dude: best SP chips, best Kryonaut batches etc ;)

[tps3443]

3 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

All I've heard are good things about Kryonaut Extreme. I tended to shy away from them ever since that run of bad Kryonaut batches along with just being outclassed by other pastes but I might have to give them a try again.

 

 

 

This pink stuff is amazing! I’m going to order the little tub of it for sure that cost like $90 bucks I know that’s a lot, but this paste is that good, and I don’t know how long this will last lol. Maybe 1 months, maybe 2 months. But it’s an actual difference you can see. I powered off pulled chip, reapplied new paste, powered on and ran again right on the same profile and water temp. And shaved -4C right away. 

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

What does the V/F curve look like? How's the 5800mhz?

Not very good. Disappointing.

@tps3443