*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

All the top end 2-dimmers side by side for Intel Z890:

 

I like the Unify-X followed by the Taichi, Apex and Aorus last.

 

The new Apex is actually pretty ugly. Not because it is white, but it looks cheap overall. I have no intention of upgrading but out of these I am favoring the Tachyon. I wish it were black though. I like the horizontal memory and CPU socket placement like the EVGA Dark motherboards and it looks like it has all of the necessary overclocking features, some of which it looks like maybe the ASRock and Unify-X might be missing.

[tps3443]

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The new Apex is actually pretty ugly. Not because it is white, but it looks cheap overall. I have no intention of upgrading but out of these I am favoring the Tachyon. I wish it were black though. I like the horizontal memory and CPU socket placement like the EVGA Dark motherboards and it looks like it has all of the necessary overclocking features, some of which it looks like maybe the ASRock and Unify-X might be missing.

I’m going to buy the cheapest one available. Probably Tachyon. Or Asrock. I know MSI and their $2,000 GodLike even more expensive than the Asus Extreme. That new Unify-X is gonna be PRICEY! Probably $799 for Unify-X, and $879 for Apex. The Asrock probably $629.99 and Tachyon most likely $699.99 since their last one was already $599.99. (I know right, only $49.99 cheaper than a Apex Encore 😂 and it wasn’t nearly as good so now that they have Kingpin it’s gonna be outrageously high price) maybe do like EVGA did. Laser print his signature on in gold pen the box and sell for $99 more 😆

[Raiderman]

On 10/1/2024 at 11:30 AM, electrosoft said:

 

There is ZERO chance I'm upgrading to an X870 board for AM5. Ridiculous. One day enthusiasts will catch on that Asus is crazy overpriced. Even the Apex is crazy expensive but it brings much more bang:buck than the Extreme.

 

For AM5, after testing quite a few 2-dimm boards on the lower end, I would go with either a low/mid 2-dimm board or if I'm splurging wait for the Crosshair 2-dimm or find a used X670e variant. Worse case, I'd just go ITX again.

 

I'm not sure the entire lineup of 2-dimm X870/e boards that are going to arrive yet.

 

Same for Intel with AL. It has to be a 2-dimm board even if I went cheap on the mATX/ITX level.

 

 

4-dimm is just garbage but I can see for those who need massive amounts of memory. At least it has a use case.

I'm still waiting for day 1 results so we can get an idea of where AL stands. If results are equal or slightly better at best, it is a skip for me but we'll see.

 

We're in a day and age where budget boards are routinely priced at mid or lower top tier pricing from a few generations ago, disgusting.

 

 

 

 

If I was going to get an X870 board, I would probably go for a mid tier AsRock iteration, like the Riptide $279.99, or the MSI Mag Tomahawk ($299.99). I see no reason to spend 5-6 hundred dollars on a top tier board like I did with the X670.

[electrosoft]

7 hours ago, Raiderman said:

If I was going to get an X870 board, I would probably go for a mid tier AsRock iteration, like the Riptide $279.99, or the MSI Mag Tomahawk ($299.99). I see no reason to spend 5-6 hundred dollars on a top tier board like I did with the X670.

 

Agreed. I only picked up the X670E Carbon because it was open box in April 2023 for $345. The difference between X870E and X670E is USB4 is mandatory and that's about it in regards to importance.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

12 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I’m going to buy the cheapest one available. Probably Tachyon. Or Asrock. I know MSI and their $2,000 GodLike even more expensive than the Asus Extreme. That new Unify-X is gonna be PRICEY! Probably $799 for Unify-X, and $879 for Apex. The Asrock probably $629.99 and Tachyon most likely $699.99 since their last one was already $599.99. (I know right, only $49.99 cheaper than a Apex Encore 😂 and it wasn’t nearly as good so now that they have Kingpin it’s gonna be outrageously high price) maybe do like EVGA did. Laser print his signature on in gold pen the box and sell for $99 more 😆

The Godlike board is a joke IMHO. The price is a joke and couple that with the effectively worthless for memory overclocking 4-DIMM configuration, it is a board made for stupid suckers with e-peen/self-worth issues, not enthusiasts. So, what are they all going to offer this go-round? Just one overpriced option for each brand that will sell out and be hard to find and everything else is trash? Yeah... sounds about par for the course.

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The Godlike board is a joke IMHO. The price is a joke and couple that with the effectively worthless for memory overclocking 4-DIMM configuration, it is a board made for stupid suckers with e-peen/self-worth issues, not enthusiasts. So, what are they all going to offer this go-round? Just one overpriced option for each brand that will sell out and be hard to find and everything else is trash? Yeah... sounds about par for the course.

It really is. Regardless of what (4) Dimm  Z890 options are released, these new Z890 (4) Dimm boards shouldn’t have any trouble with DDR5 8600 or even DDR5 9000 and will probably be comparable or better than all of the Z790 (2) Dimm boards. This is what happens with Z690 going to Z790. 
 

 

[Mr. Fox]

19 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

It really is. Regardless of what (4) Dimm  Z890 options are released, these new Z890 (4) Dimm boards shouldn’t have any trouble with DDR5 8600 or even DDR5 9000 and will probably be comparable or better than all of the Z790 (2) Dimm boards. This is what happens with Z690 going to Z790. 
 

 

You might be right, but I am skeptical and won't believe that until I see it. I believe it will be slower and have higher latency than 2-DIMM. If you are correct, then the 2-DIMM boards should easily hit DDR5-10000. And, that would make the 4-DIMM option unacceptable in the next gen for the same reason it is in current gen: inferiority.

 

I honestly expect to see little or no improvement whatsoever in 4-DIMM memory overclocking. If anything, I expect 8000 to be a stretch and only with a better than average CPU IMC. Traces are too long and there is too much EMI/noise with the extra slots.

[win32asmguy]

Just now, Mr. Fox said:

You might be right, but I am skeptical and won't believe that until I see it. I believe it will be slower and have higher latency than 2-DIMM. If you are correct, then the 2-DIMM boards should easily hit DDR5-10000. And, that would make the 4-DIMM option unacceptable in the next gen for the same reason it is in current gen: inferiority.

 

I honestly expect to see little or no improvement whatsoever in 4-DIMM memory overclocking. If anything, I expect 8000 to be a stretch and only with a better than average CPU IMC. Traces are too long and there is too much EMI/noise with the extra slots.

 

I am surprised at how rare 2-DIMM boards are in product lineups. You would expect it to be an easier, less expensive layout to design and should be standard on all Z790 and X670 boards unless its marketed as a "Creator" or "Workstation" board who might need more than 96GB with an understood performance tradeoff.

[Mr. Fox]

29 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

 

I am surprised at how rare 2-DIMM boards are in product lineups. You would expect it to be an easier, less expensive layout to design and should be standard on all Z790 and X670 boards unless its marketed as a "Creator" or "Workstation" board who might need more than 96GB with an understood performance tradeoff.

💯 Yeah, totally agree. I think old habits die hard and it is a common myth among noobs that don't know much that having 4 slots is better than 2 "for RAM upgrades" but hardly anybody actually needs that. I can't remember ever needing to add more RAM to one of my overclocking rigs. I've only needed to do that on an old turdbook that didn't have enough from the factory, and generally that involves replacing low capacity modules with higher capacity, not adding extra low capacity modules. The motherboard manufacturers cater to the lowest common denominators, which makes sense to a degree. But, it makes NO SENSE on a high-end part that is targeted for overclocking.

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

You might be right, but I am skeptical and won't believe that until I see it. I believe it will be slower and have higher latency than 2-DIMM. If you are correct, then the 2-DIMM boards should easily hit DDR5-10000. And, that would make the 4-DIMM option unacceptable in the next gen for the same reason it is in current gen: inferiority.

 

I honestly expect to see little or no improvement whatsoever in 4-DIMM memory overclocking. If anything, I expect 8000 to be a stretch and only with a better than average CPU IMC. Traces are too long and there is too much EMI/noise with the extra slots.

 

The 4 dimm boards are running 7200+ just fine right now, I have my sons really cheap Z790 Asrock at 7000c34 (This like a $119 dollar motherboard) (I cannot go further because it’s a 12900KS, so IMC LIMITS) Most people hitting 7600-7800 range on Z790 (4) Dimmers though with 13/14 gen. Some better chips hitting DDR5 8000. 
 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

The 4 dimm boards are running 7200+ just fine right now, I have my sons really cheap Z790 Asrock at 7000c34 (This like a $119 dollar motherboard) (I cannot go further because it’s a 12900KS, so IMC LIMITS) Most people hitting 7600-7800 range on Z790 (4) Dimmers though with 13/14 gen. Some better chips hitting DDR5 8000. 

Those are rare and I am still skeptical and do not believe that a 4-DIMM motherboard will ever match the memory overclocking abilities of a same-generation 2-DIMM motherboard. So, even it is does better and improves from what it does on Z790, I believe it will still end up being inferior to a same-generation 2-DIMM motherboard, which will make it undesirable. It would need to match the 2-DIMM speed, read/write/copy and latency in the same chipset/generation before I would say that 4-DIMM is an acceptable option for a new high-end overclocking motherboard. Matching the performance of an older generation 2-DIMM motherboard won't be good enough. In other words, your memory overclocking limits and performance would need be the same if you moved your CPU from a 2-DIMM motherboard to a 4-DIMM, with no loss of overclocking abilities.

[tps3443]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Those are rare and I am still skeptical and do not believe that a 4-DIMM motherboard will ever match the memory overclocking abilities of a same-generation 2-DIMM motherboard. So, even it is does better and improves from what it does on Z790, I believe it will still end up being inferior to a same-generation 2-DIMM motherboard, which will make it undesirable. It would need to match the 2-DIMM speed, read/write/copy and latency in the same chipset/generation before I would say that 4-DIMM is an acceptable option for a new high-end overclocking motherboard. Matching the performance of an older generation 2-DIMM motherboard won't be good enough. In other words, your memory overclocking limits and performance would need be the same if you moved your CPU from a 2-DIMM motherboard to a 4-DIMM, with no loss of overclocking abilities.

Z890 is probably not going to come rolling out the gate at peak potential either. There will be some serious growing pains with bios, new rams, new traces and all. I’m only upgrading to try something different. Assuming motherboards are available and not priced crazy high. Worst case scenario, I have to buy another 14900KS who knows what kind of sample it may be. And if I have to do this, then I’ll be buying a nice case too, and building a normal PC for my new office. 
 

I want to get a case and run (2) large radiators. Preferably HWLabs GTX radiators. I want a HW Labs GTX 560mm on the bottom of case, and a HW Labs GTX 480mm on the top, air flow would be going like this ^^^^^ bottom to top. I’m gonna use a 240mm Plexi distribution plate with a D5 pump on the front of the case, and also I will add about 2-3 additional D5’s in the basement of the case for extra flow and pressure. Maybe throw them all down there LOL. 😆 

 

^ This is new goal in mind for new build, and I’m more excited about the new case and new rads and build overall then If it uses a Z790 Apex or Z890 Apex. I really don’t care. 🤷‍♂️ it’s gonna be awesome either way. 😎

[tps3443]

@electrosoft you getting a 9950X3D or a 285K? 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

@electrosoft you getting a 9950X3D or a 285K? 

 

I'm going to wait for some early reviews and @Talon to see the day one assessment and get some early benchmarks. If I like what I see, I'm going to either pick up a 285k and bin a few OR I'm going to wait on the 9950X3D (January ETA launch) and spend a few months watching the bins sort themselves out on the 285k. I completely skipped binning 14th and basically snatched up that SP115 13900KS for awhile so the last time I did the "binning shuffle" was 12th gen.

 

We'll also have some early data too on the 9800X3D which is rumored to launch this month too as it will be in the same ballpark as the 9950X3D to compare against the 285k and get a general idea.

 

[Mr. Fox]

Got the 14900KS from @tps3443. Just starting with the tuning now.

Not delidded and bare die yet, so Cinebench R23 is a little toasty without the chiller in my 78°F office.

[Mr. Fox]

OK, I have tightened this up enough to not burn any more calories on the memory for now. I think I am going to lock this down and call it good enough for now. May try 8800 stable soon.

[tps3443]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

OK, I have tightened this up enough to not burn any more calories on the memory for now. I think I am going to lock this down and call it good enough for now. May try 8800 stable soon.

Thats pretty much exactly how I ran it every single day. That chip has a very good memory controller. Those are some pretty crazy tight timings man! 

[tps3443]

Take a look at these Sapphire rapid platforms. These are overclockable, unlocked, and even allow up to DDR5 6800+ on the ram. They have all of the modern features as Z790 does, only these CPU’s do not use E-Cores on the CPU’s they have all real big cores lol. “Think very modern and unlocked 7980XE” lol. It’s so cool! Or modern Xeon 3175X lol.
 

Intel has the Xeon 2565X which is a TRUE 18/36 unlocked Xeon chip that supports DDR5 6800+ in Quad channel, so the bandwidth is really impressive. I had no idea this platform even existed. They have much more powerful CPU’s available that drop right in to the same socket. Really an awesome platform. The IPC is very very good! These could easily be used as gaming CPU’s in a normal PC or work station PC that has full on overclocking ability. 
 

 

Another note: LGA 4677 water blocks are available from several manufactures. So this platform does not have many limitations. 
 

I feel like I have been under a rock. $1,500 for a CPU like that is expensive. But not too crazy. I have seen the motherboards as low as $700 range. Considering one could drop in a Xeon 3595X which is 60/120 cores/threads and is also unlocked. It’s not a too terrible value. Stuff like this intrigues me. 
 

I’m amazed Intel went the direction we all scratched our heads about years ago. Intel makes a whole slew of unlocked Xeon CPU’s released in 2023 and 2024 for this socket LGA 4677.

 

@Mr. Fox Check out this video!

https://youtu.be/jSae9muJviI?si=JI-YCpdR7dJTS4ib

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

7 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Take a look at these Sapphire rapid platforms. These are overclockable, unlocked, and even allow up to DDR5 6800+ on the ram. They have all of the modern features as Z790 does, only these CPU’s do not use E-Cores on the CPU’s they have all real big cores lol. “Think very modern and unlocked 7980XE” lol. It’s so cool! Or modern Xeon 3175X lol.
 

Intel has the Xeon 2565X which is a TRUE 18/36 unlocked Xeon chip that supports DDR5 6800+ in Quad channel, so the bandwidth is really impressive. I had no idea this platform even existed. They have much more powerful CPU’s available that drop right in to the same socket. Really an awesome platform. The IPC is very very good! These could easily be used as gaming CPU’s in a normal PC or work station PC that has full on overclocking ability. 
 

 

Another note: LGA 4677 water blocks are available from several manufactures. So this platform does not have many limitations. 
 

I feel like I have been under a rock. $1,500 for a CPU like that is expensive. But not too crazy. I have seen the motherboards as low as $700 range. Considering one could drop in a Xeon 3595X which is 60/120 cores/threads and is also unlocked. It’s not a too terrible value. Stuff like this intrigues me. 
 

I’m amazed Intel went the direction we all scratched our heads about years ago. Intel makes a whole slew of unlocked Xeon CPU’s released in 2023 and 2024 for this socket LGA 4677.

 

@Mr. Fox Check out this video!

https://youtu.be/jSae9muJviI?si=JI-YCpdR7dJTS4ib

 

 

 

 

If and when there is a next upgrade for me I am probably going that route. Some of the most fun I have had with overclocking was the X299 Dark with 7960X and 7980XE. Time will tell. I could probably  sell two of my four desktops and cover a big chunk of the cost of the CPU, mobo and extra DDR5 modules. But probably won't. I am incurring a lot of unexpected medical expenses, so now is definitely not the time.

[tps3443]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

If and when there is a next upgrade for me I am probably going that route. Some of the most fun I have had with overclocking was the X299 Dark with 7960X and 7980XE. Time will tell. I could probably  sell two of my four desktops and cover a big chunk of the cost of the CPU, mobo and extra DDR5 modules. But probably won't. I am incurring a lot of unexpected medical expenses, so now is definitely not the time.

Yeah that makes sense. I am just amazed that Intel has offered such a platform. Asrock released a W790 2.0 LGA4677 motherboard which was supposed to retail for $499.99, that alone is a great buy. I just checked the QVL, and someone can run 128GB of DDR5 6800cl32 just fine on one of these systems. The CPU cost is initially expensive, and these platforms do require RDIMMS which is ECC Registered DDR5. But we have the choice of last gen chips for this socket which are cheaper, and the ECC ram is available in Hynix-A die which can be overclocked or XMP Enabled. The die and IHS is huge on these chips, so I can only assume these big processors would run even cooler than X299 ever did. 
 

That Wendell guy on Level1Tech is always doing videos on these platforms. 
 

We are in a time where we are literally offered overclocking Hynix-A die ECC registered server memory that has a XMP profile, that is just awesome and nuts at the same time lol. I guess Intel was forced to do this since AMD allows this as well. 
 

Anyways, if I did run such a platform, I would use a Xeon 2565X which is 18/36 and unlocked, and probably some DDR5 6800c32, and I’d see how far the ram can go and how tight the timings can get. Cinebench on one of these chips is comparable to a 14900K, but once you start overclocking this 2565X from its tame low power 3.2Ghz all core, it starts ripping very fast. I could only assume such a large monolithic die could easily do something like 5.2Ghz+ all Core easily. I remember benching my 7980XE at 4.9-5.0Ghz all-core and it has a smaller die, and much older silicon. So, I’m not really sure how high one could even clock a 2565x, and how much power it would consume, not much info on this 🤣

 

The coolness and curiosity is absolutely there 100% though! What a cool platform that has been hiding in plain sight all this time. Xeons for everyone, in all core counts, with unlocked multipliers and overclocking server ram 🤯. The W790 motherboards even have WiFi and Gen5 PCI-E Support.

[Talon]

26 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Yeah that makes sense. I am just amazed that Intel has offered such a platform. Asrock released a W790 2.0 LGA4677 motherboard which was supposed to retail for $499.99, that alone is a great buy. I just checked the QVL, and someone can run 128GB of DDR5 6800cl32 just fine on one of these systems. The CPU cost is initially expensive, and these platforms do require RDIMMS which is ECC Registered DDR5. But we have the choice of last gen chips for this socket which are cheaper, and the ECC ram is available in Hynix-A die which can be overclocked or XMP Enabled. The die and IHS is huge on these chips, so I can only assume these big processors would run even cooler than X299 ever did. 
 

That Wendell guy on Level1Tech is always doing videos on these platforms. 
 

We are in a time where we are literally offered overclocking Hynix-A die ECC registered server memory that has a XMP profile, that is just awesome and nuts at the same time lol. I guess Intel was forced to do this since AMD allows this as well. 
 

Anyways, if I did run such a platform, I would use a Xeon 2565X which is 18/36 and unlocked, and probably some DDR5 6800c32, and I’d see how far the ram can go and how tight the timings can get. Cinebench on one of these chips is comparable to a 14900K, but once you start overclocking this 2565X from its tame low power 3.2Ghz all core, it starts ripping very fast. I could only assume such a large monolithic die could easily do something like 5.2Ghz+ all Core easily. I remember benching my 7980XE at 4.9-5.0Ghz all-core and it has a smaller die, and much older silicon. So, I’m not really sure how high one could even clock a 2565x, and how much power it would consume, not much info on this 🤣

 

The coolness and curiosity is absolutely there 100% though! What a cool platform that has been hiding in plain sight all this time. Xeons for everyone, in all core counts, with unlocked multipliers and overclocking server ram 🤯. The W790 motherboards even have WiFi and Gen5 PCI-E Support.

 

I've had a complete build in my cart before, and again recently when they dropped the "refresh" lol. I can't pull the trigger though, it won't be faster for gaming and consumes a hilarious amount of power lol. It would be hella fun, but I don't have any practical need for such a beast. 

 

I was looking at the 2595X with this board. 

 

https://www.newegg.com/asrock-w790-ws-extended-atx-intel-w790-lga-4677/p/N82E16813162113

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

I've had a complete build in my cart before, and again recently when they dropped the "refresh" lol. I can't pull the trigger though, it won't be faster for gaming and consumes a hilarious amount of power lol. It would be hella fun, but I don't have any practical need for such a beast. 

 

I was looking at the 2595X with this board. 

 

https://www.newegg.com/asrock-w790-ws-extended-atx-intel-w790-lga-4677/p/N82E16813162113

That makes sense. I think most of the want for me surrounding this platform is merely from coolness and uniqueness of it lol. After owning it, that may wear off, and we’ll want to get back to basics. I would be curious of the gaming performance of these though. No E-Cores, and maybe 64GB of DDR5 6800, I can only assume it would still offer a good gaming experience. I also wonder how high the cores would overclock. 
 

The biggest problem I see right now is why Newegg and other retailers are selling these chips for more than their MSRP. The 2565X is only supposed to be $1339-1349. Makes no sense they are scalping them and selling drastically over the MSRP. 

[Talon]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

That makes sense. I think most of the want for me surrounding this platform is merely from coolness and uniqueness of it lol. After owning it, that may wear off, and we’ll want to get back to basics. I would be curious of the gaming performance of these though. No E-Cores, and maybe 64GB of DDR5 6800, I can only assume it would still offer a good gaming experience. I also wonder how high the cores would overclock. 
 

The biggest problem I see right now is why Newegg and other retailers are selling these chips for more than their MSRP. The 2565X is only supposed to be $1339-1349. Makes no sense they are scalping them and selling drastically over the MSRP. 

 

I was super curious too. I am curious how high you could overclock the cores, if you reduced some of them, say down to 12-16P cores. You'd still have all that cache too which could be super useful for gaming. 6800 in quad channel would also be epic. 

 

https://www.provantage.com/intel-bx807132565x~7ITEP9FM.htm -- Provantage has the boxed version in stock for $1423

 

The "War Box" lol. 

[Mr. Fox]

21 minutes ago, Talon said:

The "War Box" lol. 

I think that is an abbreviation for boxed 3-year warranty, but I like how "war box" sounds. 🤣

 

Having run the 7960X and 7980XE at 5.0 GHz all core I would not at all be surprised if you could overclock it stable to between 5.7 and 6.0GHz all core depending on the silicon quality.

[Clamibot]

14 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Take a look at these Sapphire rapid platforms. These are overclockable, unlocked, and even allow up to DDR5 6800+ on the ram. They have all of the modern features as Z790 does, only these CPU’s do not use E-Cores on the CPU’s they have all real big cores lol. “Think very modern and unlocked 7980XE” lol. It’s so cool! Or modern Xeon 3175X lol.
 

Intel has the Xeon 2565X which is a TRUE 18/36 unlocked Xeon chip that supports DDR5 6800+ in Quad channel, so the bandwidth is really impressive. I had no idea this platform even existed. They have much more powerful CPU’s available that drop right in to the same socket. Really an awesome platform. The IPC is very very good! These could easily be used as gaming CPU’s in a normal PC or work station PC that has full on overclocking ability. 
 

 

Another note: LGA 4677 water blocks are available from several manufactures. So this platform does not have many limitations. 
 

I feel like I have been under a rock. $1,500 for a CPU like that is expensive. But not too crazy. I have seen the motherboards as low as $700 range. Considering one could drop in a Xeon 3595X which is 60/120 cores/threads and is also unlocked. It’s not a too terrible value. Stuff like this intrigues me. 
 

I’m amazed Intel went the direction we all scratched our heads about years ago. Intel makes a whole slew of unlocked Xeon CPU’s released in 2023 and 2024 for this socket LGA 4677.

 

@Mr. Fox Check out this video!

https://youtu.be/jSae9muJviI?si=JI-YCpdR7dJTS4ib

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I don't understand why Intel went the hybrid route on consumer CPUs when they didn't do the same thing on their server class CPUs. It seems very strange to me.