*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Clamibot]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

That is just messed up. I am sorry that is happening. There is no good excuse for it.

 

It is equally wrong to charge sales tax or income tax on the sale of used items where sales tax was already paid when the item was originally purchased and the item is sold for less than the original purchase price. That is double-taxation and being taxed on your loss, not your income. That kind of behavior is a dead giveaway that the government-sponsored organized crime ring that enjoys molesting their citizens is being run by corrupt, unscrupulous and hopelessly evil bastards.

 

But, the label on the outside of the box still cracks me up. How blatantly and deliberately misrepresented... 16 copies of "The Adventure Challenge Couples Book" LOL. And, the customs people are too stupid to use an x-ray machine or shake the box to hear how it sounds? (Maybe a safe assumption there.) I'm pretty sure it wouldn't sound like a box of books if you jiggled it.

 

 

That's precisely why I don't buy stuff on ebay anymore. The last time I went to buy something there, they were now charging sales tax, which is stupid. I'm buying a used item from a person, not a new item from retail. I specifically went there to pay less for used items and avoid sales tax on said used items to save even more. It was like an online garage sale. Not anymore unfortunately.

 

Lol, the label says MADE IN CHIAN. I'm assuming that's supposed to say China.

[Reciever]

1 hour ago, Clamibot said:

 

That's precisely why I don't buy stuff on ebay anymore. The last time I went to buy something there, they were now charging sales tax, which is stupid. I'm buying a used item from a person, not a new item from retail. I specifically went there to pay less for used items and avoid sales tax on said used items to save even more. It was like an online garage sale. Not anymore unfortunately.

 

Lol, the label says MADE IN CHIAN. I'm assuming that's supposed to say China.

No no, I made a country and it's called chian, it's definitely not for avoiding vat or duties. 

 

Promise. 

[Mr. Fox]

50 minutes ago, Reciever said:

No no, I made a country and it's called chian, it's definitely not for avoiding vat or duties. 

 

Promise. 

Chian is a special place designed for people that can't spell.

[Reciever]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Chian is a special place designed for people that can't spell.

So you DO understand! 🥰

 

And here I was worried, thats a load off. 😂

[electrosoft]

19 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

welp, never mind on that then if it aint beating an NH-D15 *lol*

 

Yeah all that hype to score the same or slightly worse than the NH-D15. I still keep one as a back up ready to go just in case.

 

 

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Yeah all that hype to score the same or slightly worse than the NH-D15. I still keep one as a back up ready to go just in case.

 

 

probably a good call if u want to be prepared for potential downtimes of your watercooling setup but still want the best of air cooling 🙂 

[Clamibot]

Has anyone tried doing direct die cooling with a thermoelectric cooler before?

 

Basically I want to remove my IHS and the copper cold plate on my cooler and have the CPU die come in direct contact with the TEC plate. Is this safe or will it cause a short? I know electricity is running through the TEC, but I'm not sure if the contact plates themselves are electrically conductive or not. To my understanding, they're ceramic.

[Tenoroon]

Finally got my dream Venezuelan setup 😉

I managed to implement the old microcode into my BIOS to have a fully unlocked 4710mq. This thing is of a very bad quality though. I don't think I can push it past 4.2-4.3ghz without extreme cooling lol. If only the CPU was of a better bin... 😄

Edit:
Jaybee recommended that I put this here, so I will...

 

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, Tenoroon said:

Finally got my dream Venezuelan setup 😉

I managed to implement the old microcode into my BIOS to have a fully unlocked 4710mq. This thing is of a very bad quality though. I don't think I can push it past 4.2-4.3ghz without extreme cooling lol. If only the CPU was of a better bin... 😄

thats some nice tweaking right there, loving it! 😄 

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Clamibot said:

Has anyone tried doing direct die cooling with a thermoelectric cooler before?

 

Basically I want to remove my IHS and the copper cold plate on my cooler and have the CPU die come in direct contact with the TEC plate. Is this safe or will it cause a short? I know electricity is running through the TEC, but I'm not sure if the contact plates themselves are electrically conductive or not. To my understanding, they're ceramic.

I am not aware of any reason it would be more unsafe than any other direct die setup except for the possibility of condensation, which you would need to guard against with LN2, DICE, phase change, or even chilled water if you are in a humid climate. You would want to insulate the CPU/socket to prevent condensation from forming and causing an electrical short, but the contact itself would not be harmful. The CPU die is not electrified and is in direct contact with metal or liquid metal at all times during normal use.

 

Direct die cooling is not dangerous. The IHS provides a level of protection, but whether that protection is actually necessary is open to debate. In my opinion it is only dangerous if a person is reckless and does something that causes physical damage to the die. It is worth noting that all laptops CPUs and GPUs use direct die cooling.

[electrosoft]

Final nail in the coffin for that ProSiphon Elite from der8auer @ ~245w (OC'd 11th gen):

 

 

 

 

[Reciever]

Too expensive, reminds me for some reason of the CoolerMasterV10 

 

Still sort of want one lol

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, Reciever said:

Too expensive, reminds me for some reason of the CoolerMasterV10 

 

Still sort of want one lol

haha yeah its kinda like the Intel Arc A380, we all know it totally sucks but its just something completely new, a foray into the unknown 😄 

[Papusan]

Bro Fox. Are you ready to jump on your second round of Ryzen chips?🙃 Maybe pair it with the new Intel Arch graphics for the ultimate setup/build. Here's a short write up for you. You have a Chiller so maybe you'll be able to squize out more than AMD have been able to do from Ryzen 7000 series processors. I just hop you won't run into the normal teeth issues from new chipset, USB, I/O, Pcie 5 and DDR5. Not fun if AMD can't fix it before they are ready with 8000 series Ryzen chips (5000 series Ryzen platform, I look at you). And be prepared to struggle a bit making Intel's new graphics baby able to offer what Intel try to offerit's customers... Fantastic drivers, software and that you forwards can enjoy your older games. Always fun with new tech. Tinkering with new HW is half the fun. Isn't it? 🙂

 

Leak Claims AMD Zen 4 Ryzen 7000 CPUs May Offer Limited Overclocking Potential

AMD's next-generation Ryzen processors are on the way, and the leaks we've seen so far are super promising. The chips perform well in single-threaded benchmarks, and that translates to solid GPU performance too. We haven't seen a leaked multi-threaded benchmark of the top-end 16-core part, but AMD's own demo of same was quite impressive.

 

Here's a leak that is not so promising: supposedly, AMD will be locking down voltage control on its Ryzen 7000-famiily processors such that users won't be able to overvolt. Overvolting is a key part of overclocking, as it allows the processor to better maintain clock rate stability, albeit at the cost of extra power (and thus heat). But be aware this info come from WCCFTECH so take it with however many grains of salt. AMD have most likly squized out most of the OC headroom, so maybe you won't gain much with unlocked voltage control on custom water/AIO. 

 

The trend with new modern HW continue also from Intel. And this new tech ain't for you if you enjoy play older games. As well forget a nice results streaming your old games with the new Intel graphics cards (top livestreaming performance won't make your old games fly on your new shiny Intel cards). One thing for sure.... Bro @Ashtrix who enjoy older games won't touch this mess even with a 10 foot pole...

 

 

 

 

Are Intel Arc graphics cards dead on arrival?

Techspot.com Aug 04, 2022 - The launch seems to be lurching from bad to worse

 

Intel's Latest Video Details Performance Of Older Game APIs On Arc Graphics

Early reviews of the Intel Arc graphics cards have not been bursting with praise. We only have reputable third-party reviews of the entry level Arc A380 thus far, but even with suitably lowered expectations, no one is recommending these Intel discrete GPUs for general use. 

[jaybee83]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Bro Fox. Are you ready to jump on your second round of Ryzen chips?🙃 Maybe pair it with the new Intel Arch graphics for the ultimate setup. Some write up for you. You have a Chiller so maybe you'll be able to squize out more than AMD have been able to do from Ryzen 7000 series processors. I just hop you won't run into the normal teeth issues from new chipset, USB, I/O, Pcie 5 and DDR5. Not fun if AMD can't fix it before they are ready with 8000 series Ryzen chips (5000 series Ryzen platform, I look at you). And be prepared to struggle a bit making Intel's new graphics baby able to offer what Intel try to offerit's customers... Fantastic drivers, software and that you forwards can enjoy your older games. Always fun with new tech. Tinkering with new HW is half the fun. Isn't it? 🙂

 

Leak Claims AMD Zen 4 Ryzen 7000 CPUs May Offer Limited Overclocking Potential

AMD's next-generation Ryzen processors are on the way, and the leaks we've seen so far are super promising. The chips perform well in single-threaded benchmarks, and that translates to solid GPU performance too. We haven't seen a leaked multi-threaded benchmark of the top-end 16-core part, but AMD's own demo of same was quite impressive.

 

Here's a leak that is not so promising: supposedly, AMD will be locking down voltage control on its Ryzen 7000-famiily processors such that users won't be able to overvolt. Overvolting is a key part of overclocking, as it allows the processor to better maintain clock rate stability, albeit at the cost of extra power (and thus heat). But be aware this info come from WCCFTECH so take it with however many grains of salt. AMD have most likly squized out most of the OC headroom, so maybe you won't gain much with unlocked voltage control on custom water/AIO. 

 

The trend with new modern HW continue also from Intel. And this new tech ain't for you if you enjoy play older games. One thing for sure.... Bro @Ashtrix who enjoy older games won't touch this mess even with a 10 foot pole...

 

 

 

 

 

jokes aside, not much OC headroom is not a surprise, with both AMD and Intel going head to head theyll both squeeze out as much as they can, not to leave any potential performance on the table.

 

as for locking down OV....wtf 😵 heres to hoping that this is just wccftech being wccftech....

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

haha yeah its kinda like the Intel Arc A380, we all know it totally sucks but its just something completely new, a foray into the unknown 😄 see

It actually worked about the same as the products der8auer compared it to. There was little very difference in temps. I don't think there is anything that works as well as a custom loop with strong pumps and properly engineered water blocks. It is huge and I expected it would have been better than the other air cooler and small AIO, so the fact that it wasn't is kind of sad. 

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

Bro Fox. Are you ready to jump on your second round of Ryzen chips?🙃 Maybe pair it with the new Intel Arch graphics for the ultimate setup. Some write up for you. You have a Chiller so maybe you'll be able to squize out more than AMD have been able to do from Ryzen 7000 series processors. I just hop you won't run into the normal teeth issues from new chipset, USB, I/O, Pcie 5 and DDR5. Not fun if AMD can't fix it before they are ready with 8000 series Ryzen chips (5000 series Ryzen platform, I look at you). And be prepared to struggle a bit making Intel's new graphics baby able to offer what Intel try to offerit's customers... Fantastic drivers, software and that you forwards can enjoy your older games. Always fun with new tech. Tinkering with new HW is half the fun. Isn't it? 🙂

 

Leak Claims AMD Zen 4 Ryzen 7000 CPUs May Offer Limited Overclocking Potential

AMD's next-generation Ryzen processors are on the way, and the leaks we've seen so far are super promising. The chips perform well in single-threaded benchmarks, and that translates to solid GPU performance too. We haven't seen a leaked multi-threaded benchmark of the top-end 16-core part, but AMD's own demo of same was quite impressive.

 

Here's a leak that is not so promising: supposedly, AMD will be locking down voltage control on its Ryzen 7000-famiily processors such that users won't be able to overvolt. Overvolting is a key part of overclocking, as it allows the processor to better maintain clock rate stability, albeit at the cost of extra power (and thus heat). But be aware this info come from WCCFTECH so take it with however many grains of salt. AMD have most likly squized out most of the OC headroom, so maybe you won't gain much with unlocked voltage control on custom water/AIO. 

 

The trend with new modern HW continue also from Intel. And this new tech ain't for you if you enjoy play older games. One thing for sure.... Bro @Ashtrix who enjoy older games won't touch this mess even with a 10 foot pole...

 

 

Those are both mistakes that I am not likely to make. Although, there is a greater chance that I would buy an Intel GPU  than there is that I would give Ryzen trash another chance. If they lock down their next gen garbage CPUs, then it's not even  open for consideration in passing. Like a snowball's chance in hell... zero. I would almost go as far as saying wasting money on a chintzy turdbook would be more likely. At least then you step into it knowing full well that you are spending your money on a POS that is going to suck before you even open the box.

[Tenoroon]

I'm at 100.33 x 42 right now, but its more like 41.5 because the CPU is on the edge of power throttling. Anymore voltage and I'd have to set the system to a static voltage (which is annoying with the microcode mod as the CPU voltage readings are bugged.) If I crank the offset voltage up on adaptive, it will run the benchmark, but BSOD at the very end when the CPU dips the voltage down as the drop is so big.

I'm running the rig like this right now. Not using LM as it's annoying to use, but I can't cool any better lol. I tried going direct die with the Scythe Katana 5, but that doesn't end well as there is not enough pressure on the die. Maybe I can figure out a better way to cool this beast as I know the mounting bracket for the CPU is bent a bit, and the heatsink doesn't seem to be flat.



On another hand, I recently started school, and I've been wanting to take a shot at building a fully working single-stage phase change. It would be quite difficult (and costly), but it I could probably learn a lot in the process of trying to build one lol. That, and my STEM teacher used to be an HVAC technician, so his knowledge may be helpful.

Edit:
https://valid.x86.fr/cxg3a8

😉
4788.57mhz @ 1.492 volts (static voltage reading with this microcode is half of the true voltage) 

[Clamibot]

I did it! I got past 5.6 GHz!

 

Here's a sweet 5.7 GHz on my super 10900K. Only single core, but I already know my cooler can't handle a 5.7 GHz all core load. I'm gonna need a water chiller for that. The power draw at 5.4 GHz all core is already getting insane as is.

 

 

Next step, 5.8 GHz.

 

What is the maximum safe voltage for daily use on a 10900K?

[Mr. Fox]

10 hours ago, Clamibot said:

I did it! I got past 5.6 GHz!

 

Here's a sweet 5.7 GHz on my super 10900K. Only single core, but I already know my cooler can't handle a 5.7 GHz all core load. I'm gonna need a water chiller for that. The power draw at 5.4 GHz all core is already getting insane as is.

 

 

Next step, 5.8 GHz.

 

What is the maximum safe voltage for daily use on a 10900K?

Congrats on the tuning. You are doing a great job, bro.

 

For daily use I would go with something on the verge of extreme, extremely good but not brutal. If your cooler is up to it, you should be able to run that chip 24/7 at 5.3GHz all core, no AVX offset, static voltage at around 1.350-1.375V with high LLC to stop vdroop nonsense and pass a Cinebench run, or 5.4GHz with about 1.420-1.430V. As we chatted about, there is going to be some variance between mobos, but both of those options were 100% stable with the Z490 Dark. On the hotter summer days where I could not keep my office  ambient temps cool enough I went with 5.3GHz.

[Mr. Fox]

One of the hardest things to grasp for people that are used to struggling with laptop overclocking when they abandon them and move to desktops is the effect of temperatures. They are so accustomed to everything  being a pain in the ass and anything under 90-95°C being viewed as "good" the idea that 50-60°C can actually be "too hot"  for anything more than modest overclocking is kind of baffling. I know it was for me at first. A lot changed over the years when I was a laptop jockey. At the time I originally moved from desktops to laptops the concept of PC water cooling was an extremely rare novelty that was insanely expensively and required a degree of custom fabrication or adaptation of parts that were not originally intended for water cooling a computer.

 

Prefabricated components were few and far between and AIOs and water cooling kits, fancy fittings, pumps and reservoirs we're not even invented yet. The first components in the early days were generally limited to water blocks and radiators, and they were crazy expensive novelty items.

[Tenoroon]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

One of the hardest things to grasp for people that are used to struggling with laptop overclocking when they abandon them and move to desktops is the effect of temperatures. They are so accustomed to everything  being a pain in the ass and anything under 90-95°C being viewed as "good" the idea that 50-60°C can actually be "too hot"  for anything more than modest overclocking is kind of baffling. I know it was for me at first. A lot changed over the years when I was a laptop jockey. At the time I originally moved from desktops to laptops the concept of PC water cooling was an extremely rare novelty that was insanely expensively and required a degree of custom fabrication or adaptation of parts that were not originally intended for water cooling a computer.

Yeah, aren't lower temperatures better because CPUs require less voltage to be stable compared to a CPU running at the same speed, but significantly hotter?

 

[Mr. Fox]

3 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

Yeah, aren't lower temperatures better because CPUs require less voltage to be stable compared to a CPU running at the same speed, but significantly hotter?

 

100%... Heat increases the need for voltage and adding voltage creates more heat. It becomes a vicious circle. That is why ambient cooling with air or water becomes an impediment sooner. You will eventually hit a wall even with extreme cooling, but that wall is further away.

[Tenoroon]

I stuck in the i5 4210m, and its completely locked down as expected, meaning the microcode only unlocks Haswell CPUs that utilize turbo bins.

Also, I was lookin' on the bot, and I'm baffled of how this guy who got his BCLK all the way up to 107.39.
https://valid.x86.fr/ruzyv4
Is this just luck? Or are there actually ways to get the BCLK higher?

[Clamibot]

6 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

Yeah, aren't lower temperatures better because CPUs require less voltage to be stable compared to a CPU running at the same speed, but significantly hotter?

 

 

6 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

100%... Heat increases the need for voltage and adding voltage creates more heat. It becomes a vicious circle. That is why ambient cooling with air or water becomes an impediment sooner. You will eventually hit a wall even with extreme cooling, but that wall is further away.

 

Yep. Decreasing temperature decreases electrical resistance, which in turn decreases the voltage required to remain stable. This increases power efficiency, which is why performance oriented laptops need better cooling than they currently have. Having better cooling will actually increase battery life. If people want better battery life, then we need thicker laptops! Or at least ones with better cooling.

 

The whole temperature affecting stability concept didn't make sense to me at first, but you can think of it this way: more heat increases the voltage required to remain stable as @Mr. Fox said. When you go into extreme overclocking territory, the voltage requirements start increasing incredibly quickly, so a minor increase in temperature may require a significant increase in voltage to keep the CPU stable.

 

CPUs don't like wild voltage swings. Those cause instability. Keeping the CPU as cool as possible minimizes the severity of voltage swings when the temperature changes, thus decreasing the chance of instability occuring.

 

When the temperatures get really high, like at the thermal throttling point (TjMAX), the voltages required at stock max speeds are higher than normal, but manageable by the motherboard. However, under extreme overclocking scenarios, the voltages required to keep stability at that temperature may be in excess of 1.7 volts, which is really high. I think only high end motherboards can handle the kind of stress this voltage induces on the VRMs.

 

Thus, temperatures always matter. The more extreme levels you want to take your overclocking to, the colder temperatures you will need to prevent wild, instability inducing voltage swings from occurring.

[Mr. Fox]

49 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

I stuck in the i5 4210m, and its completely locked down as expected, meaning the microcode only unlocks Haswell CPUs that utilize turbo bins.

Also, I was lookin' on the bot, and I'm baffled of how this guy who got his BCLK all the way up to 107.39.
https://valid.x86.fr/ruzyv4
Is this just luck? Or are there actually ways to get the BCLK higher?

I think it depends on a lot of things, including the CPU microcode and Intel ME firmware. Increasing BCLK has the same effect as increasing core ratio, plus other less desirable side effects because doing that overclocks other things that are not normally overclocked. And, increasing voltage is necessary to handle the higher frequencies. BCLK is more limited on CPUs with integrated graphics. I don't remember the exact number now, but I think it is something like 102.7 is the hard limit on modern processors with integrated graphics, because the graphics part of the chip can't deal with higher BCLK.