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About Windows LTSC (Windows 10/11 Enterprise LTSC)


Aaron44126

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On 5/2/2022 at 8:51 PM, jaybee83 said:

so 2021 seems to be more "feature rich" eh? 😅 and yeah ive run into a few compatibility issues with 1809 unfortunately. lets see, so far 2021 still seems to be a better choice than win11... thx for the info bud, unfortunately ive run out of reactions to give for today 😇

Bruh, Win 11 ain't an option. Its a disaster. This tablet optimized touch OS will only be worse. Remember Microsoft try to match their newest tablet OS with their Surface-books. Exactly as Apple do with their iPad's (tablet). The only difference is that Apple is able to offer 3 different OS depending if you have an smartphone, tablet or Mac Jokebooks. Microsoft want it unisex and prefer only a single OS, and that is mainly meant for tablets, Mini-Jokes and 2 in 1. Win 11 isn't meant for desktops. Hence a huge failure. Go with a dual/tripple boot as bro @Mr. Foxsaid. And I do the same. With Win 11 you'll never know what they will change or add in before its too late. Minor changes will come several times a year in a patch update. A ticking bomb.

 

image.png.20400d4e34a318d76532b3a5d44f840e.png

 

 

“With the updates we made for the new tablet-optimized taskbar in Build 22563, we’re no longer supporting dragging icons in the system tray or between the system tray and the show hidden icons flyout,” a Microsoft official noted in the Feedback Hub.

Officials later clarified that the change was indeed made for the tablet-optimized taskbar in Windows 11, but it also affects the desktop UX since the OS currently doesn’t come with a dedicated tablet mode.

 

https://www.windowslatest.com/2022/05/06/microsoft-backtracks-on-windows-11s-unwanted-taskbar-changes/

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yeah, unfortunately thats pretty much the input and feedback ive gotten from several sources now, ugh. too bad my lady insists on having a "normal" OS with full update functionatliy for her new machine (coming in next week). but still, im planning to go with a somewhat debloated version so that her new hardware is not blocked from the get-go performance-wise.

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My thought a few months ago was that Windows 11 and the new scheduler for Alder Lake/Big.Little gave improvements over Windows 10 but it turned out to be a misdirected view since independent benchmarking told a different story:

No performance improvement could be noted when running 10 and 11 on the same Alder Lake system.

 

It made me realize that running Windows 10 LTSC 2021 is a perfectly good option on a new PC (where "new" in this case means that LTSC 2019 is problematic due to drivers requiring newer hardware). I would be happy to hear different, though - i.e. successful installation and use of LTSC 2019 on [whatever 2021/2022 PC]. 

 

LTSC 2019 with Classic Shell and "Windows 7 tweaking" including Aero theme via WindowBlinds is the best Windows environment I have ever used on this side of 7 Ultimate and I feel that its qualities are very much on par with Mac OS X Snow Leopard (my favorite system beside Mac OS X Panther) in terms of operation and reliability. Optimum would be to successfully run it on 2021-2022 hardware (without running into issues when installing drivers). 

 

I did play a bit with Windows 11 when checking PCs lately and my conclusion is clear: It's not my cup of tea unless the PC is a 2-in-1. Windows 10 LTSC with "7 tweaking" all day long for me. The start menu (Windows 10X Launcher) and dumbing down of the contextual menus are showstoppers. 

 

It is also interesting to note that people are so afraid of installing Windows from an ISO in 2022. It is an indication of a serious degradation of computer knowledge in general considering that the procedure is pretty much similar to installing Mac OS 8/9 or Mac OS X from a disc. We are not exactly talking the "less than good" times of installing Windows 95 or even more 3.1. This is also an indication of a societal problem where the population are out of sync with knowledge about the technology driving the same, thus making it necessary with an aggressive ramp up of education (everything from improved IT learning in pre-school and grade school via study circles and so on).

 

 

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8 hours ago, GeekBear80 said:

My thought a few months ago was that Windows 11 and the new scheduler for Alder Lake/Big.Little gave improvements over Windows 10 but it turned out to be a misdirected view since independent benchmarking told a different story:

No performance improvement could be noted when running 10 and 11 on the same Alder Lake system.

 

It made me realize that running Windows 10 LTSC 2021 is a perfectly good option on a new PC (where "new" in this case means that LTSC 2019 is problematic due to drivers requiring newer hardware). I would be happy to hear different, though - i.e. successful installation and use of LTSC 2019 on [whatever 2021/2022 PC]. 

 

LTSC 2019 with Classic Shell and "Windows 7 tweaking" including Aero theme via WindowBlinds is the best Windows environment I have ever used on this side of 7 Ultimate and I feel that its qualities are very much on par with Mac OS X Snow Leopard (my favorite system beside Mac OS X Panther) in terms of operation and reliability. Optimum would be to successfully run it on 2021-2022 hardware (without running into issues when installing drivers). 

 

I did play a bit with Windows 11 when checking PCs lately and my conclusion is clear: It's not my cup of tea unless the PC is a 2-in-1. Windows 10 LTSC with "7 tweaking" all day long for me. The start menu (Windows 10X Launcher) and dumbing down of the contextual menus are showstoppers. 

 

It is also interesting to note that people are so afraid of installing Windows from an ISO in 2022. It is an indication of a serious degradation of computer knowledge in general considering that the procedure is pretty much similar to installing Mac OS 8/9 or Mac OS X from a disc. We are not exactly talking the "less than good" times of installing Windows 95 or even more 3.1. This is also an indication of a societal problem where the population are out of sync with knowledge about the technology driving the same, thus making it necessary with an aggressive ramp up of education (everything from improved IT learning in pre-school and grade school via study circles and so on).

 

 

 

yep this article came right to mind when reading your post: https://www.pcgamer.com/students-dont-know-what-files-and-folders-are-professors-say/

 

like....seriously? they dont know what files and folders are?!?!?! 🙄🤪😵 we are doomed!

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11 hours ago, Kassowen said:

Out of curiousity, is it worth it to go from win10 pro to the same in LTSC? Or is one just better off upgrading to windows 10 enterprise in LTSC?

 

There is no "Pro LTSC".  Your only options are Enterprise LTSC and IoT Enterprise LTSC.  (See OP.)

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1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

There is no "Pro LTSC".  Your only options are Enterprise LTSC and Enterprise IoT LTSC.  (See OP.)

out of the two i would tend to get the latter, since IoT has a significantly longer support time range. functionally, theyre both the same.

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On 5/18/2022 at 6:29 AM, jaybee83 said:

out of the two i would tend to get the latter, since IoT has a significantly longer support time range. functionally, theyre both the same.

Okay, so its worth going to enterprise, out of curiousity, is windows 10 pro and windows 10 enterprise functionally similar so that I could do a fresh installation of windows 10 enterprise, but use a system image of windows 10 pro on that? I am just trying to think of a way to make this easier as doing a fresh install and doing all the driver installations is a long pain I would rather avoid.

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12 minutes ago, Kassowen said:

Okay, so its worth going to enterprise, out of curiousity, is windows 10 pro and windows 10 enterprise functionally similar so that I could do a fresh installation of windows 10 enterprise, but use a system image of windows 10 pro on that? I am just trying to think of a way to make this easier as doing a fresh install and doing all the driver installations is a long pain I would rather avoid.

 

Not quite sure what you mean here...  But you can upgrade from Windows 10 Pro to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC in-place and thus avoid having to deal with reinstalling drivers, programs, etc..  I did this on four systems that I am currently running and a few coworker systems as well.  I also explain how to do this in the OP.  Look for the section "Upgrading from "ordinary" Windows to Windows LTSC".

 

While it worked out well each time that I tried it, something funny can always happen with a Windows in-place upgrade.  Do a system image backup first.

 

When upgrading in-place you will end up with MS Store and stock UWP apps that you already have still installed.  If you don't want those, you will have to manually remove them afterwards (or, just do a fresh install).

 

To upgrade, you will need Windows 10 (IoT?) Enterprise LTSC install media (ISO file / DVD / USB) and a valid product key to activate afterwards.  In the OP I also have everything that I could dig up on where you might be able to get a license from.  Note that product keys are tied to a specific version of Windows 10 (IoT?) Enterprise LTSC; you can't upgrade freely without a new product key like you can with "regular" Windows 10.  Windows 10 Enterprise (non-LTSC) product keys will not work either.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10LTSC/ is a decent resource, there are a lot of people there discussing Windows 10 LTSC and that will answer questions.

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  • 2 months later...

Installed 10 ltsc on a 10y old HP desktop (was saved from the trash, initially w8), works great.
Everything smooth, light and fast. A few, minimal tweaks + O&O shutup, ready. The perfect OS for older hardware.

Edit: testing 2021 IOT, so far did not discover anything special, behaved exactly like the non-iot (activation, ram, disk, user experience, updates, speed etc).  Apart from longer lifecycle & security-only updates, are there any useful gains in using IOT (that I missed) ?
 

Untitled2.png

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/25/2022 at 8:05 PM, 6730b said:

Installed 10 ltsc on a 10y old HP desktop (was saved from the trash, initially w8), works great.
Everything smooth, light and fast. A few, minimal tweaks + O&O shutup, ready. The perfect OS for older hardware.

Edit: testing 2021 IOT, so far did not discover anything special, behaved exactly like the non-iot (activation, ram, disk, user experience, updates, speed etc).  Apart from longer lifecycle & security-only updates, are there any useful gains in using IOT (that I missed) ?
 

Untitled2.png

think the main appeal for the IoT variant is its activated via HWID instead of KMS and ofcourse the 10 year support vs the 5 year support of the non-IoT

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Indeed, IoT and non-IoT are binary-equivalent.  The only difference is in how licensing/activation works, support length, and also ISOs for one of them has better multi-language options if you want an install in a language other than English (don't remember which, probably non-IoT).  You can switch between the two just by swapping product keys.  I'd presume that there will be a way to install updates intended for the IoT version on the non-IoT version without much hassle, after the first five years of support runs out, but we're a ways off from that yet.

 

Also, technically, IoT is supposed to be run only in "kiosk mode" (only one application running) but that is not actually enforced.....

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  • M2 Max
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Dell Precision 7560 (work)

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    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 IPS display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3)
  • 95Wh battery
  • 720p IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

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On 2/5/2022 at 6:03 AM, Aaron44126 said:

So, to spell it out, the upgrade matrix looks like:

  • Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 may upgrade to Windows 10 LTSB 2015 (and then to a later version).

Hi Everyone and @Aaron44126!

Are you sure that Windows 8.1 can be upgraded to Windows 10 LTSB 2015 (before eventually migrating to LTSC edition...)?

It is my understanding that upgrade path was limited to Windows 8.

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12 minutes ago, carly said:

Hi Everyone and @Aaron44126!

Are you sure that Windows 8.1 can be upgraded to Windows 10 LTSB 2015 (before eventually migrating to LTSC edition...)?

It is my understanding that upgrade path was limited to Windows 8.

 

I have personally done such an upgrade but I actually don't recall if I was upgrading from Windows 8 or 8.1.  I thought it was 8.1 but I might be mistaken.  I do know that Microsoft did not intend to allow any upgrades from old versions of Windows to Windows 10 LTSB, and it is sort of an "accident" that this is allowed for LTSB 2015.  It was properly blocked for later versions.

 

...If Windows 8.1 does not allow an upgrade to Windows 10 LTSB 2015, you could just upgrade to regular Windows 10 (21H2 or earlier) and then upgrade from there to LTSB/LTSC using the procedure that I describe up in the OP.

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Apple MacBook Pro 16-inch, 2023 (personal)

  • M2 Max
    • 4 efficiency cores
    • 8 performance cores
    • 38-core Apple GPU
  • 96GB LPDDR5-6400
  • 8TB SSD
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  • 16.2" 3456×2234 120 Hz mini-LED VRR display
  • Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3
  • 99.6Wh battery
  • 1080p webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

Also — iPhone 12 Pro 512GB, Apple Watch Series 8

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 IPS display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3)
  • 95Wh battery
  • 720p IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

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2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

.I have personally done such an upgrade but I actually don't recall if I was upgrading from Windows 8 or 8.1. If Windows 8.1 does not allow an upgrade to Windows 10 LTSB 2015, you could just upgrade to regular Windows 10 (21H2 or earlier) and then upgrade from there to LTSB/LTSC using the procedure that I describe up in the OP.

 

 

Probably it was 8.0.

From Microsoft source: "In-place upgrade from Windows 7, Windows 8.1, or Windows 10 General Availability Channel to Windows 10 LTSC isn't supported. Windows 10 LTSC 2015 didn't block this in-place upgrade path. This issue was corrected in the Windows 10 LTSC 2016 release, which only allows data-only and clean install options."

 

(In fact, there are even Youtube videos that document a registry hack on Windows 10 'general' in order to install a LTSC release).

 

Therefore I am not sure that makes sense upgrading Windows 8.1 to 21H2 or earlier, i.e. a 'Windows 10 General Availability Channel' release because this procedure would not allow to upgrade further to any LTSB 2016 or LTSCs, at least with in-place procedure that your post#1 implied.

 

Any explanation why it should work, please?

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7 minutes ago, carly said:

Probably it was 8.0.

Microsoft source: "In-place upgrade from Windows 7, Windows 8.1, or Windows 10 General Availability Channel to Windows 10 LTSC isn't supported. Windows 10 LTSC 2015 didn't block this in-place upgrade path. This issue was corrected in the Windows 10 LTSC 2016 release, which only allows data-only and clean install options."

 

In fact, there are even Youtube videos that document a registry hack on Windows 10 'general' in order to install a LTSC release.

 

Therefore I am not sure that makes sense upgrading Windows 8.1 to 21H2 or ealier, i.e. 'Windows 10 General Availability Channel' release because this procedure would not allow to upgrade to any LTSB 2016 or LTSCs, at least with in-place procedure that your post implied.

 

If you go to my OP, I describe making a change to the "EditionId" value in the registry to allow the upgrade.  This is viable and works fine, I have done it at least ten times at this point to switch from a "regular" Windows 10 edition to Windows 10 LTSC in-place.  It is not officially supported by Microsoft but I have never encountered any issues with it.  My two current daily driver systems were upgraded in this manner over a year ago and are still working fine.

 

The Microsoft source that you quoted above is exactly what I am talking about.  Microsoft allowed Windows 7/8/8.1 users to upgrade to Windows 10 LTSB 2015 by accident.  Rather, they failed to put an upgrade block in place.  It is not officially supported, but it does work without any registry trickery.

 

If you're looking for an "officially supported" mechanism to upgrade from non-LTSC to LTSC (without a clean install), there is none.

 

You could probably use a similar registry trick to allow an upgrade from Windows 7/8/8.1 directly to a later version of Windows 10 LTSB/LTSC.  I've never done this so I do not know exactly what values would need to be changed.

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Info posts (Dell) — Dell Precision key postsDell driver RSS feeds • Dell Fan Management — override fan behavior
Info posts (Windows) — Turbo boost toggle • The problem with Windows 11 • About Windows 10 LTSC

Spoiler

Apple MacBook Pro 16-inch, 2023 (personal)

  • M2 Max
    • 4 efficiency cores
    • 8 performance cores
    • 38-core Apple GPU
  • 96GB LPDDR5-6400
  • 8TB SSD
  • macOS 14 "Sonoma"
  • 16.2" 3456×2234 120 Hz mini-LED VRR display
  • Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3
  • 99.6Wh battery
  • 1080p webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

Also — iPhone 12 Pro 512GB, Apple Watch Series 8

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 IPS display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3)
  • 95Wh battery
  • 720p IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Previous

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Thank you for the clarifications.

So if the target for a current Windows 8.1 Pro would be a LTSB 2016 v. 1607, I would need the Windows 10 1607 Build 14393 Anniversary Update - 'Redstone 1' to be installed preliminarly. 

Which source would you suggest to download that untouched old ISO? Eventually I would like to check the SHAs. 

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Without registry tweaking you would need to install Windows 10 LTSB 2015 (build 10240) first. That is the only one without an upgrade block. From there you can upgrade to any later version.

 

LTSB/LTSC ISOs are not as readily available as regular Windows 10 ISOs. My source for ISOs is a Visual Studio subscription. You can also get them from the MS volume license center if your business has access. Otherwise, you may have to resort to “shady sources” but I can give some SHA1 hashes.

 

Again, if finding LTSB 2015 is a problem but you have a later LTSC image/license, you can upgrade to “regular” Windows 10 and then from there to LTSC using the trick described up top; as long as you are never going backwards with the major build number it should work.

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13 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Again, if finding LTSB 2015 is a problem but you have a later LTSC image/license, you can upgrade to “regular” Windows 10 and then from there to LTSC using the trick described up top; as long as you are never going backwards with the major build number it should work.

That's the point. I would gladly accept to use the registry tweak. Thank you.

But I can't upgrade to the latest Windows 10 general availability channel using Media Creator since the destination target will be LTSB 2016. So the first issue to access a Windows 10 - 'Redstone 1' v. 14393-1607 ISO is unfortunately the same.

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3 hours ago, carly said:

So the first issue to access a Windows 10 - 'Redstone 1' v. 14393-1607 ISO is unfortunately the same.

 

Internet Archive has some old ISOs.  I.e.:

https://archive.org/search.php?query=windows+10+1607&sin=

Apple MacBook Pro 16-inch, 2023 (personal) • Dell Precision 7560 (work) • Full specs in spoiler block below
Info posts (Dell) — Dell Precision key postsDell driver RSS feeds • Dell Fan Management — override fan behavior
Info posts (Windows) — Turbo boost toggle • The problem with Windows 11 • About Windows 10 LTSC

Spoiler

Apple MacBook Pro 16-inch, 2023 (personal)

  • M2 Max
    • 4 efficiency cores
    • 8 performance cores
    • 38-core Apple GPU
  • 96GB LPDDR5-6400
  • 8TB SSD
  • macOS 14 "Sonoma"
  • 16.2" 3456×2234 120 Hz mini-LED VRR display
  • Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3
  • 99.6Wh battery
  • 1080p webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

Also — iPhone 12 Pro 512GB, Apple Watch Series 8

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 IPS display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth 5.3)
  • 95Wh battery
  • 720p IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Previous

  • Dell Precision 7770, 7530, 7510, M4800, M6700
  • Dell Latitude E6520
  • Dell Inspiron 1720, 5150
  • Dell Latitude CPi
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On 1/8/2023 at 7:01 PM, 6730b said:

https://isofiles.bd581e55.workers.dev/Windows 10/

and all the rest :O) https://isofiles.bd581e55.workers.dev/

Unmodified & safe > in my experience.

Always smart check the ISOs you download Windows and Office Genuine ISO Verifier 11.12.33.22

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  • 2 weeks later...

Microsoft continue experimenting with their buggy trashware. They sink lower in QC and quality for each new day they work with their junk. I wonder where Microsoft got their software engineers. 

Windows 10 installation bug accidentally forces users to buy Microsoft 365

windowslatest.com- February 4, 2023
Windows 10 has again started displaying a full-screen pop-up that takes up the whole screen (similar to the first boot experience) and attempts to sell Microsoft 365. The pop-up itself isn't new, but there’s a catch – a bug in Windows 11 22H2 prevents users from skipping the Microsoft 365 offer, which means they’re asked to enter credit card details. 
 
In related news, Microsoft is experimenting with a full-screen popup to convince users to try Windows 11 for free. The full-screen popup has four slides attempting to promote Windows 11’s new flagship features, such as the Start menu and redesigned notification center.

"The Killer"  ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | 14900KS | 4090 HOF + 20 other graphics cards | 32GB DDR5 | Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 - 1500 Watt | Second PSU - Cooler Master V750 SFX Gold 750W (For total of 2250W Power) | Corsair Obsidian 1000D | Custom Cooling | Asus ROG Strix XG27AQ 27" Monitors |

 

                                               Papusan @ HWBOTTeam PremaMod @ HWBOT | Papusan @ YouTube Channel

                             

 

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