4 controversial laptop trends that should never have made it mainstream

[Tenoroon]

14 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

Can't see pics...

Should be good now, let me know if you still cant see them.

[1610ftw]

On 6/6/2022 at 3:14 PM, Aaron44126 said:

 

NVIDIA doesn't manufacture MXM cards...  That is on laptop OEMs.

 

MXM 3.0b isn't well suited for modern high-end GPUs — the power and physical space requirements are too great, which is why you see contorted versions of it (in the odd case a system has a swappable GPU at all).  It's also getting worse with each generation as NVIDIA cranks the power limit up.  Someone would have to design an upgrade/replacement to the "standard" and get the greater industry onboard with it...  Seems unlikely because its not really in the OEMs' interest to do this.

I thought it would be the same as with desktop GPUs in so far that there is an Nvidia reference design that manufacturers are supposed to follow.

 

If it only takes a bunch of manufacturers to agree on a new standard then I would propose to create one that supports up to 350W or even 400W for the GPU.

With vapor chambers, improved fans and proper liquid metal application I can see that it will be possible to again have laptops that consume up to 500 or even 550W peak.

 

It is not like we did not have this before:

 

[Mr. Fox]

8 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

I thought it would be the same as with desktop GPUs in so far that there is an Nvidia reference design that manufacturers are supposed to follow.

 

If it only takes a bunch of manufacturers to agree on a new standard then I would propose to create one that supports up to 350W or even 400W for the GPU.

With vapor chambers, improved fans and proper liquid metal application I can see that it will be possible to again have laptops that consume up to 500 or even 550W peak.

 

It is not like we did not have this before:

 

I think the issue is, they don't want us to have that anymore. And/or, they don't want to support it because it requires effort, engineering and diligence, and it's just way lots easier for them to build and sell feces to stupid people than it is to build awesome products.

[Hertzian56]

Oof so even the so called mobile supercomputers are bga only that sucks.

[1610ftw]

6 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

Should be good now, let me know if you still cant see them.

Thanks, I can see it now.

 

I hate people making bullshit claims in their posts - most people over here know that the Clevo X170 and others could go beyond 200W on the 10850/10900 processors, I think mine goes up to 230W. So it was possible to support about 50% more peak power than this generation of laptops.

 

It would be very nice to again have modularity that endures for at least three GPU and CPU generations.

[Mr. Fox]

33 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

I'm not going to continue with this argument, but this is the mindset of a majority of people...
(Talking about the GT77 Titan)

They're a hopeless cause. Don't burn any calories on 'em.

[1610ftw]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I think the issue is, they don't want us to have that anymore. And/or, they don't want to support it because it requires effort, engineering and diligence, and it's just way lots easier for them to build and sell feces to stupid people than it is to build awesome products.

Yep, apparently very little interest to please the few freaks that still care - they probably think that we used to be a pain in the butt and they are happy that they do not have to deal with us any more.

 

There was always this complete disregard for us even from Clevo and MSI which were two companies that supported several generations of MXM based laptops yet they never offered new MXM based GPUs in some kind of kit to end users. It was always a matter of looking everywhere and paying through the nose for something that often needed a bunch of work to make it run again - very far removed from what we know from desktop systems.

[Hertzian56]

I was just looking at the eurocom rapter x15 pics and it does look like it has a socketed cpu at least. Too bad there isn't a real mini-itx gpu they couldn't just design cooling around in there. Smallest desktop mini-itx I can see is a 1660 super which isn't much different than a 2060m without RT of course.

 

https://eurocom.com/ec/images(486)RaptorX15

 

Edit: Saw the MSI Aero ITX 3060 card looks like the board could be reconfigured to close to MXM size, idk not an expert

 

https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/GeForce-RTX-3060-AERO-ITX-12G-OC

 

at 1:53 it shows the itx 3060ti board seems feasible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0VDYX7QZQ8

 

[Clamibot]

10 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

I'm not going to continue with this argument, but this is the mindset of a majority of people...
(Talking about the GT77 Titan)

 

Yeah that person definitely has no idea what they're talking about. My Clevo X170SM-G would like to have a word with this individual.

 

I can sustain a 220 watt power draw on the CPU indefinitely, whether the GPU is running at full speed or not, and the GPU consumes about 220 watts under full load as well. That's a combined 440 watt power draw, which my laptop can sustain indefinitely. During the winter, I can even get the CPU up to 275 watts. My laptop can't sustain that indefinitely, but it can sustain that power draw from the CPU long enough to complete bursty workloads.

 

No other laptop in the world can boost the CPU up to 275 watts. That's almost double what this individual claims previous DTRs were capable of. Perhaps they need to do more research to check their facts.

 

Additionally, there's no reason to ridicule someone who is ridiculing a company for not delivering as good of a product as they delivered in the past. People who give a company a pass for delivering something worse than their previous products, and then defending that company's decision have something seriously screwed up with their thought process.

 

I think the day where I'm forced to make my own laptop is getting closer. I've been contemplating it for a while since MXM upgrades are ridiculously expensive. I may actually end up doing it if I become frustrated enough with the current state of the market for us enthusiasts. I've been slowly updating my parts list over the past 6 years 🤣.

[1610ftw]

Funny guy who calls the GT77 an imposter:

 

 

As Clamibot says the X170 could easily sustain well over 200W for the CPU only so to claim that supporting up to 157W for a short while is great is a joke.

 

I will freely admit that for certain workloads the new processors are so good that they wipe the floor even with the mighty 10900K but then one gets a non-upgradable solution with these devices where the main board can never break out of warranty or it will also break the bank to replace it. Cheap and disposable or wait - it is expensive and disposable - what a brilliant idea!

[aldarxt]

17 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

The upgrade price is the cost of a complete NH55JNNQ system board with the BGA 3070Ti.

So this (NH55JNNQ) looks like the way to go! This is the new Hot Thread then

Official Clevo NH55JNNQ / NH5xJNxx 12th gen Socket 1700 LGA laptop thread 

on this forum all thanks to  electrosoft

 

I just like a 17" screen instead but this https://clevo-computer.com/en/blog/tests-benchmarks/clevo-nh55jnnq-laptop-with-replaceable-processor-and-nvidia-rtx-3070-ti-graphics

says replaceable processor

   

 

[Papusan]

The sick and slimy trend continue. The main trendsetter in Windows world for computers continue. All others will follow after. Gaming laptops, creator notebooks or whatever 2 IN 1 laptops will all get the same makeover/treatments. Everything you find of Laptops will soon enough get motherboards that ain't much bigger than what you can find in yesterdays tablets. Everything done in love for their customers that want their laptops looks more as an Apple-book.

 

Thinner XPS 13 Laptop Uses Dell's Smallest Ever Motherboard pcmag.com

 

Dell launched a new XPS 13 today, which not only counts as its thinnest and lightest 13-inch laptop, but utilizes a motherboard that's 1.8x smaller than last year's model.

 

As with other laptop brands recently, Dell updated the XPS 13 to take advantage of Intel's 12th Gen Alder Lake processors. However, Dell's engineers also took the opportunity to carry out a major design rethink inside the laptop. In the process, they developed and manufactured the smallest motherboard Dell has ever created, allowing more tech (and bigger speakers) to be packed into its tiny frame. 

 

Dell XPS 13 Gets Even Thinner, Lighter And Faster With Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake

[jaybee83]

On 6/8/2022 at 11:02 AM, aldarxt said:

So this (NH55JNNQ) looks like the way to go! This is the new Hot Thread then

Official Clevo NH55JNNQ / NH5xJNxx 12th gen Socket 1700 LGA laptop thread 

on this forum all thanks to  electrosoft

 

I just like a 17" screen instead but this https://clevo-computer.com/en/blog/tests-benchmarks/clevo-nh55jnnq-laptop-with-replaceable-processor-and-nvidia-rtx-3070-ti-graphics

says replaceable processor

   

 

do come and join us there, its a fun place 😁

[Reciever]

It's an ultrabook, not really seeing the issue on that one. 

[Papusan]

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

The sick and slimy trend continue. The main trendsetter in Windows world for computers continue. All others will follow after. Gaming laptops, creator notebooks or whatever 2 IN 1 laptops will all get the same makeover/treatments. Everything you find of Laptops will soon enough get motherboards that ain't much bigger than what you can find in yesterdays tablets. Everything done in love for their customers that want their laptops looks more as an Apple-book.

 

Thinner XPS 13 Laptop Uses Dell's Smallest Ever Motherboard pcmag.com

Forgot to add in. Dell follow Apples steps for their iphone's. Ditching the earphone jack. Why not just buy a smartphone instead for this new thin and slim mess? @Mr. Fox @Ashtrix Maybe all OEMs also should remove more of the I/O ports for desktop motherboards? Why not just a single port for mouse and KB and get rid of the rest as Dell try for their Jokebooks?

 

Dell’s adds Alder Lake CPU to XPS 13, but ditches the earphone jack

[Reciever]

For the highly mobile less cables makes sense. Nearly anyone with a phone in my warehouse is listening to music and podcasts via wireless ear buds. Not my kind of thing but its not a stretch to imagine that this would play out this way.

[Tenoroon]

8 hours ago, Papusan said:

The sick and slimy trend continue. The main trendsetter in Windows world for computers continue. All others will follow after. Gaming laptops, creator notebooks or whatever 2 IN 1 laptops will all get the same makeover/treatments. Everything you find of Laptops will soon enough get motherboards that ain't much bigger than what you can find in yesterdays tablets. Everything done in love for their customers that want their laptops looks more as an Apple-book.

 

Thinner XPS 13 Laptop Uses Dell's Smallest Ever Motherboard pcmag.com

 

Dell launched a new XPS 13 today, which not only counts as its thinnest and lightest 13-inch laptop, but utilizes a motherboard that's 1.8x smaller than last year's model.

 

As with other laptop brands recently, Dell updated the XPS 13 to take advantage of Intel's 12th Gen Alder Lake processors. However, Dell's engineers also took the opportunity to carry out a major design rethink inside the laptop. In the process, they developed and manufactured the smallest motherboard Dell has ever created, allowing more tech (and bigger speakers) to be packed into its tiny frame. 

 

Dell XPS 13 Gets Even Thinner, Lighter And Faster With Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake

I have to admit, stuff like this is quite impressive.

Having an entire computer of this size and still being able to do basic and even advanced tasks with ease is quite impressive. Compare this to the Netbooks of the late 2000's and it completely clowns on all of them.  

I'm not too worried about the size. While I disagree with the move of including these thinner, less powerful laptops into the "Extreme Performance System" branding, I still believe that it doesn't really matter how thin it is. Most of the people using it aren't going to be running benchmarks, crunching lots of numbers, or rendering anything too demanding, and if they were, they would most likely be using or switching to a more powerful machine. 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Tenoroon said:

Most of the people using it aren't going to be running benchmarks, crunching lots of numbers, or rendering anything too demanding, and if they were, they would most likely be using or switching to a more powerful machine. 

The main problem is that the more powerful laptops will follow same paths/trend. The only difference will be the weight differences. Same size for all but the more powerful laptops will be slightly heavier to travel with. 

 

Aka tomorrows laptops will be smaller and tablets will be bigger, LOOL

 

Apple iPad Pro 2022 rumours emerge with talk of a 14.1-inch and Apple M2 powered version

 

[Papusan]

On 6/9/2022 at 8:31 PM, Papusan said:

The sick and slimy trend continue. The main trendsetter in Windows world for computers continue. All others will follow after. Gaming laptops, creator notebooks or whatever 2 IN 1 laptops will all get the same treatments. Everything you find of Laptops will soon enough get motherboards that ain't much bigger than what you can find in yesterdays tablets.

Thinner XPS 13 Laptop Uses Dell's Smallest Ever Motherboard pcmag.com

Dell’s New XPS 13 Shows the Price of Going Too Thin

Its innovative engineering won’t be friendly for simple repairs and upgrades.

 

As other laptop manufacturers chased the MacBook Air, so did they chase the XPS 13. So when the XPS 13 goes thin enough as to be almost totally unrepairable or upgradable by users, I took notice. How much would Dell give up to shave 0.03 inches off the prior model?

 

Ever since Steve Jobs pulled the first MacBook Air out of a manilla envelope at the MacWorld Expo in 2008, the laptop industry has been chasing accolades for the thinnest and lightest designs. And while the MacBook Air has continued to be a white whale, one Windows laptop has become almost as recognizable: the Dell XPS 13.

But where leaders lead, followers follow. Sure, gaming laptops are likely to stay upgradeable, as will workstations. But if the XPS 13 succeeds, we may see a world where even fewer thin notebooks can be repaired or upgraded at all.

 

What? Gaming laptops upgradeable? Nope. The editor is blinded by own lack of tech knowledge. @Mr. Fox @electrosoft

[Mr. Fox]

3 minutes ago, Papusan said:

The editor is blinded by own lack of tech knowledge

That seems to be par for the course now, doesn't it? A very high percentage of the tech advice that I see being given is flawed, based on lack of knowledge, personal bias and mostly worthless. The people receiving it generally are unable to identify bad advice because they just don't know anything. They embrace it on the basis that person giving it is trustworthy and knows more than they do. While there could be a degree of truth to that assumption, the giver and the receiver don't know what they don't know. It is a classic example of the blind leading the blind. And, we all know that old expression about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.

[Papusan]

On 6/10/2022 at 5:29 AM, Tenoroon said:

I have to admit, stuff like this is quite impressive.

Having an entire computer of this size and still being able to do basic and even advanced tasks with ease is quite impressive

Impressive? Engineeer/design a smartphone MB to fits into a bigger chassis than an Iphone ain't impressive at all. Just stupid. From my article above...

 

But perhaps most importantly, it has Dell's smallest ever motherboard (approximately 180.15 x 38.34 mm). This allows the company to cram a large, thin battery in, keeping the laptop tiny and, presumably, long-lasting. (We haven't gotten to test the XPS 13 yet) It's borrowing from the smartphone engineering world for both the motherboard and the RAM, soldering memory that typically goes over smartphone processors to the motherboard.

[Papusan]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

The people receiving it generally are unable to identify bad advice because they just don't know anything.

The SSD, a PCIe Gen 4 NVMe drive, is in an 11.5 x 13 mm package, which Dell calls the smallest in the industry. It's in a BGA, or Ball Grid Array, which uses solder to permanently attach components. You won’t be replacing it if it fails or swapping in something bigger or faster down the line. And the battery is integrated, so replacing it will be a chore if you can do it all.

Elizabeth Chamberlain, director of sustainability at iFixit, said there are several XPS 13 laptops with soldered RAM in her organization, which she had hoped to see change in future revisions.

"We have quite a few XPS 13s deployed at iFixit, and we have had reliability problems with XPS 13 machines with soldered-in RAM failing," Chamberlain said. "When that happens, we have to replace the entire expensive main board rather than swapping out RAM like we can on the XPS 15. Rather than reversing that design mistake, Dell appears to be doubling down."

 

" Dell representatives wrote to Tom's Hardware. "Each product is a series of decisions based on what the customer needs, wants and will value.

 

Today's notebook Jockey's.

[aldarxt]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:29 PM, Tenoroon said:

I have to admit, stuff like this is quite impressive.

Having an entire computer of this size and still being able to do basic and even advanced tasks with ease is quite impressive. Compare this to the Netbooks of the late 2000's and it completely clowns on all of them.  

I'm not too worried about the size. While I disagree with the move of including these thinner, less powerful laptops into the "Extreme Performance System" branding, I still believe that it doesn't really matter how thin it is. Most of the people using it aren't going to be running benchmarks, crunching lots of numbers, or rendering anything too demanding, and if they were, they would most likely be using or switching to a more powerful machine. 

I have to admit, I'm not impressed "Having an entire computer of this size and still being able to do basic and even advanced tasks", I have 5 Laptops 10yrs and 9yrs old all of which are Still able to do basic and advanced tasks that I want, need and demand them to do. If you mean advanced tasks I have no understanding of you need not explain, It would just be lost in translation. But I can do more with my laptops because I can add or subtract components as I like which you cannot do, you would need to replace or RMA which is likley to be replaced anyway. This trend of all manufacturers merging into 1 technologiclly similar and smaller is unacceptable. I feel like they are penning us in or corraled to the slaughter, forcing us to pay their retirement pensions!

[Reciever]

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

Impressive? Engineeer/design a smartphone MB to fits into a bigger chassis than an Iphone ain't impressive at all. Just stupid. From my article above...

 

But perhaps most importantly, it has Dell's smallest ever motherboard (approximately 180.15 x 38.34 mm). This allows the company to cram a large, thin battery in, keeping the laptop tiny and, presumably, long-lasting. (We haven't gotten to test the XPS 13 yet) It's borrowing from the smartphone engineering world for both the motherboard and the RAM, soldering memory that typically goes over smartphone processors to the motherboard.

That's hardly a new design philosophy. 

 

Honestly surprised you aren't pointing out that the cpu is soldered as well since they mention ram being soldered, something that's been done on xps 13's for 5+ years at this point. 

[jaybee83]

18 hours ago, Papusan said:

Dell’s New XPS 13 Shows the Price of Going Too Thin

Its innovative engineering won’t be friendly for simple repairs and upgrades.

 

As other laptop manufacturers chased the MacBook Air, so did they chase the XPS 13. So when the XPS 13 goes thin enough as to be almost totally unrepairable or upgradable by users, I took notice. How much would Dell give up to shave 0.03 inches off the prior model?

 

Ever since Steve Jobs pulled the first MacBook Air out of a manilla envelope at the MacWorld Expo in 2008, the laptop industry has been chasing accolades for the thinnest and lightest designs. And while the MacBook Air has continued to be a white whale, one Windows laptop has become almost as recognizable: the Dell XPS 13.

But where leaders lead, followers follow. Sure, gaming laptops are likely to stay upgradeable, as will workstations. But if the XPS 13 succeeds, we may see a world where even fewer thin notebooks can be repaired or upgraded at all.

 

What? Gaming laptops upgradeable? Nope. The editor is blinded by own lack of tech knowledge. @Mr. Fox @electrosoft

ohno its not lack of knowledge its different levels for expectations: "upgradeable" for them means ure allowed to swap one ram stick and one ssd 😂