Precision 7670 & 7770 pre-release discussion (Alder Lake)

[Pultzar]

Thanks Aaron, that is helpful.

 

I have been looking at various gaming systems but most of them lack more than 2 NVMe slots and almost none of them support double sided drives (Alienware X17 for example).  I'm not sure if the GT77 supports them either.

 

As I would be using this new computer for my job, next day support would be really valuable in the case of a failure.

[Aaron44126]

22 hours ago, Pultzar said:

Any thoughts on the new MSI GT77?

 

Just following up again, I saw an article about it today and this photo shows a good look at the keyboard layout (if you zoom in).

 

 

Doesn't really seem like a great "work" keyboard.  Basically same complaints about this one that I have about 7X60/7X70 — No dedicated Home/End keys, no dedicated PgUp/PgDn keys.  But, there's more...  The numeric keypad layout is interesting, making the buttons slightly smaller to allow for full-size arrow keys, but it makes for a strange layout for other keys that are normally around the numpad.  Fn key is in a strange place as well.  Not sure why there's a second backslash key between the right Ctrl and Alt keys.  Touchpad is not centered beneath the spacebar?

[Pultzar]

The Lenovo P16 has a nice keyboard layout but only two drive slots.  The HP Fury G9 has dedicated page up/down/home/end keys.  Seems like a nice computer on paper if I can get over my distrust of HP quality that developed sometime in the early 2000s 🙂

[alittleteapot]

19 hours ago, Pultzar said:

The Lenovo P16 has a nice keyboard layout but only two drive slots.  The HP Fury G9 has dedicated page up/down/home/end keys.  Seems like a nice computer on paper if I can get over my distrust of HP quality that developed sometime in the early 2000s 🙂

 

Lenovos have always had that soft-but-firm keyboard feel that I think is just the best.  I haven't used one seriously for a few generations though, as some bad ecosystem moves in the past have made me weary.  Also, 2 drive slots is no fun!  We got an HP ZBook 14 G2 and an Elitebook 840.  The ZBook has a mushy keyboard that sometimes would drop keypresses, so it didn't get a lot of use around here.  The Elitebook 840 was an abandoned laptop and to integrate it into our workspace I had to desolder two firmware chips and resolder two new ones... but I was surprised how an $80 investment in parts and equipment got a very stable and usable laptop.  Aside from the keyboard issues, the ZBook 14 G2 has been very stable as well, so these have built up a lot of goodwill here for the HP brand.  The ZBook Fury G9 has a 16" screen but the 16:10 ratio is very tempting from a coder's perspective.  However, I think the biggest pill to swallow for me for the HP series is that they are, by average, 50% more costly than an equivalent Dell laptop.  Unless their customer service reps can cough up a 50% discount somehow off the list price 🙂

[Conan11]

On 6/2/2022 at 3:31 PM, Pultzar said:

almost none of them support double sided drives (Alienware X17 for example)

How do you find out that a laptop supports only single sided drive?

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, Conan11 said:

How do you find out that a laptop supports only single sided drive?

 

Basically, no way to know other than "someone tries to install a double-sided drive and it fits / doesn't fit".  You'd have to poke around forums like this and see.

 

...It's not even confirmed that 7X70 will support double-sided drives (though I have the drives already and will be trying it right away).  Past Precision 7000 series systems do support them, though.  And the extra NVMe drive slots not having the drives physically stack on top of the motherboard PCB is a good sign for this, I think.  There should be plenty of space.

[Conan11]

17 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Basically, no way to know other than "someone tries to install a double-sided drive and it fits / doesn't fit".  You'd have to poke around forums like this and see.

Does it concern only the mechanical size of the drive, or are there other limitations? Perhaps you can judge if the drive would fit just from looking at the slot? It might be hard to see on the photo, but if you own the laptop you can check to avoid buying wrong drive?

[Aaron44126]

5 hours ago, Conan11 said:

Does it concern only the mechanical size of the drive, or are there other limitations? Perhaps you can judge if the drive would fit just from looking at the slot? It might be hard to see on the photo, but if you own the laptop you can check to avoid buying wrong drive?

You just need physical clearance for the chips on the “bottom” side of the drive.  You may be able to make a judgement by carefully checking a laptop that you already own.  I think it would be hard to tell from online pictures…

[Aaron44126]

I've got a chat rep putting a quote together at this very moment.  If you want to get your order in ASAP, go through the sales channels, it looks like they can put orders through even though it is not live on the web site yet.

 

I can confirm that GeForce RTX 3080 Ti is an option at launch.  Core i9-12900HX is not available (as expected, you have to get 12950HX).

 

I'll update in a bit once I actually get the quote.

[Aaron44126]

Core i9-12950HX

GeForce RTX 3080 Ti

4K 120 Hz display

128GB CAMM

(cheapest SSD option)

5 year ProSupport Plus

 

I was wondering what sort of price I'd get from a chat rep...

 

Total is coming back at just under $6,000 USD — Honestly cheaper than I thought, by a good bit.  I'm having the rep tweak the quote (he put in wrong options for fingerprint reader, bottom cover, and battery) but I do expect to proceed with the order.

 

Also it shows an ETA of July 11, also sooner than I would have expected them to show.

[Aaron44126]

Order placed!

(More details to follow.)

 

I can confirm that the price to go from GeForce RTX 3080 Ti to RTX A5500 is about $900 USD.  (Sticking with GeForce myself.)

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

I've got a chat rep putting a quote together at this very moment.  If you want to get your order in ASAP, go through the sales channels, it looks like they can put orders through even though it is not live on the web site yet.

 

I can confirm that GeForce RTX 3080 Ti is an option at launch.  Core i9-12900HX is not available (as expected, you have to get 12950HX).

 

I'll update in a bit once I actually get the quote.

Nice! Did the Dell rep happen to have more details on the sustained CPU power limits?

[Aaron44126]

Hopefully, the system goes live on the web site tomorrow so I can see if this was really a decent deal or not.

 

Orders are live.  Ended up being a little over $6,000 with the extra battery warranty added.  Hopefully, the system goes on sale on the web site tomorrow so I can see if this was actually a good deal.  (Can always cancel and re-order if necessary but I am doubting that.)  Also I'm hoping that they hit that ship date but wouldn't be surprised if they miss it...  I was sort of expecting them to be pushing the estimate out to near August.  But I guess maybe the supply chain situation is a good bit better than last year?

 

I can get the information on the specific rep I ordered through to you if you are interested (PM me).

 

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

Nice! Did the Dell rep happen to have more details on the sustained CPU power limits?

Nope, but I am hoping we can get an answer on this soon:

[Aaron44126]

@Dell-Mano_G, with the launch happening, I was wondering if you could take a look at these questions:

1. What are the maximum boost power level of the GPU in the 7670 and 7770?  Assuming top-spec GPU.  (NVIDIA's GPU spec sheet shows RTX A5500 maxing out at 165W.)
2. Are power limits the same between the RTX A5500 and the RTX 3080 Ti?
3. Can you share what the PL1/PL2 CPU power limits are in these systems?
4. Is it the case that just two NVMe slots are available for use in Precision 7670 systems with the thin chassis?
5. Are you able to give any timing for when SODIMM/ECC configurations will be available?
6. Will a 64GB ECC configuration be available / supported?  (This is not listed on the spec sheet, but seems like it should work with 2× 32GB ECC SODIMM modules...)

Thank you!

[kors]

I still don't see the 7770 on the page to purchase.

[Aaron44126]

4 hours ago, kors said:

I still don't see the 7770 on the page to purchase.

 

At the moment you can order through a sales rep only.

Dell normally doesn't do overnight go-lives.  The system might go live on the web site sometime during the morning.  (I wonder, though, seems like it should be live on the China page by now...)

[__starrify__]

A Dell sales representative (Ireland/UK region) told me today that they may now give quotes, and possibly accept orders.

Quoted from our communication:

Quote

May I know the specs that you are interested in please so that I can email you a detailed quote and the first page will have the estimated delivery date if ordered today.

 

[Aaron44126]

It looks like the available specs are very similar to the Precision 7760 with obvious things changed like available CPU/GPU, the CAMM memory modules, and 7670 getting an OLED option.  So, you can basically look through the online 7760 "choose your specs" page to get the list of what you need to look at.

 

Current CPU and GPU choices are enumerated in the first post of this thread.  RAM choices right now are 16GB / 32GB / 64GB / 128GB (all CAMM, non-ECC).

 

You can also look at page 7 of the spec sheets.  7670 | 7770

Avoid ordering 7670 with the base FHD+ display.  Even if you don't want the 4K/OLED panel...  Upgrade to the 500 nits FHD+ and confirm that on the quote.

 

When you receive a quote, pay close attention to some of the smaller things like fingerprint reader type, whether or not the SSD door is present, whether or not you get the IR webcam and backlit keyboard, etc. and make sure that they are set up how you want.  (My rep did not do all of these as I asked the first time through.)

[win32asmguy]

@Aaron44126Was the rep particularly pushy about selling a warranty upgrade with the system? I spoke to one and he quoted the same price with or without a very expensive warranty package.

 

They quoted me $4000 for the following:

12950HX

32GB Non-ECC CAMM DDR5-4800

256GB SSD

3080Ti

FHD 60hz 100% DCI-P3 with FHD non-IR camera

Non-backlit keyboard (whoops)

No SSD door/Security devices

Windows 10 Pro

96W Battery

4 year ProSupport

 

Hopefully the sustained CPU TDP with the GPU idle is much higher than 75W. As far as combined loads, 65W+150W would be great, but my guess is not enough headroom with the 240W power brick.

[Aaron44126]

38 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

@Aaron44126Was the rep particularly pushy about selling a warranty upgrade with the system? I spoke to one and he quoted the same price with or without a very expensive warranty package.

 

They quoted me $4000 for the following:

12950HX

32GB Non-ECC CAMM DDR5-4800

256GB SSD

3080Ti

FHD 60hz 100% DCI-P3 with FHD non-IR camera

Non-backlit keyboard (whoops)

No SSD door/Security devices

Windows 10 Pro

96W Battery

4 year ProSupport

 

Hopefully the sustained CPU TDP with the GPU idle is much higher than 75W. As far as combined loads, 65W+150W would be great, but my guess is not enough headroom with the 240W power brick.

 

That seems like a pretty good price too.

I knew I wanted 5 years going in so there was no reason for the rep to be pushing it.  I did mention that some systems currently have a "buy four years ProSupport, get the fifth year free" deal going on, so maybe ask about that.  I saw it on the Precision 7760 config page yesterday (U.S. market).  I didn't get a good answer from my rep on if that was available/applied to the 7770 that I got.  (When the price came back a bit lower than I "feared" it would be, I didn't push much around on that.)

 

...I think the 128GB CAMM module accounts for a good chunk of the price difference between our quotes.  I also have 4K panel, IR camera, and fingerprint reader which would each add a little bit.  (Still waiting for the systems to go live on the web site so we can see some of what the actual advertised component prices are.)

 

[Edit]

I think the reps have more latitude on what they quote for ProSupport/warranty, compared to physical components.  When I bought my M6700 (ten years ago), when I hesitated on ProSupport, the rep threw in an upgrade from basic NBD to ProSupport for free.  (Ended up being glad for that.)

[Aaron44126]

35 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

Hopefully the sustained CPU TDP with the GPU idle is much higher than 75W.

 

Also wanted to mention, I have some saved posts here from @Ionising_Radiation who managed to raise/bypass the stock CPU power limit in the Precision 7560 with ThrottleStop.  Hopefully a similar technique can be used in this system if the "default" power limit is too low?

one | two (yellow checkbox can be seen here)

 

I agree that 75W+150W seems a bit too high for a sustained load.  Hoping that NVIDIA Dynamic Boost 2.0 does a good job shuffling power between the CPU and GPU as needed to achieve maximum performance on the current load, given the "global" power limit.  I haven't actually tried it out myself with anything.

[Pultzar]

Do most people go for the SSD door?  Seems like it would be nice to clone the drive before booting up the first time.  However down the road, it seems like a vulnerability?

[win32asmguy]

30 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Also wanted to mention, I have some saved posts here from @Ionising_Radiation who managed to raise/bypass the stock CPU power limit in the Precision 7560 with ThrottleStop.  Hopefully a similar technique can be used in this system if the "default" power limit is too low?

one | two (yellow checkbox can be seen here)

 

I agree that 75W+150W seems a bit too high for a sustained load.  Hoping that NVIDIA Dynamic Boost 2.0 does a good job shuffling power between the CPU and GPU as needed to achieve maximum performance on the current load, given the "global" power limit.  I haven't actually tried it out myself with anything.

Yeah, with Throttlestop it should be possible to lock the limits as high as the EC allows. I don't expect to get the same as gaming machines allow, like the GT77 157W CPU / 75W+175W Combined, just because this is a business system and needs to be more conservative. Although I would hope with improved thermals and a vapor chamber we can get a higher CPU limit as the cooling system isn't biased towards both CPU and GPU in operation.

 

Its a shame, because the gaming systems have become so gaudy and are either high performance and plastic chassis, or thin and light but better build quality. There are also issues with running Windows 10 and even Linux on those systems so the business models have some advantages.

[Hank]

Hello,

 

My first post at NotebookTalk, so please be gentle.

 

I am in the process of getting a quote and then the purchase a Precision 7770 for my small business.  The sales rep is trying to answer my questions but seems to be limited to what is published.

 

The two questions posed to the rep are: 1) does the ethernet port support 2.5Gbe and 2) what is the average and TGP delivered to the RTX GPUs.  I have my doubts that I will get an answer.

 

I also asked about the WD19DCS (or WD19DC) docs and possible updates.  The rep replied that this is the dock for the 7000 series.  I was hoping Dell would match HP G4 dock with more power and 2.5Gbe support.  I may wait on the Dell dock.  At least I can get it cheaper through resellers. 

 

[Rinconmike]

49 minutes ago, Pultzar said:

Do most people go for the SSD door?  Seems like it would be nice to clone the drive before booting up the first time.  However down the road, it seems like a vulnerability?

I got on a 7760 and two 7560.  Probably will never use.  I agree it could be a security issue of some cant take the laptop but can pull the drive. I am not concerned with that.  I also think on the 7x60 since the drive under the door is the only Gen4 it is a waste since that is where I have the boot drive and have no need for swapping boot drives.  Another issue on the 7x60 is the disappearing drive issue that others have had and I do not want to pull the drive unless i need to.

 

On the 7x70 since all slots are Gen4, it may be more useful where you can have the boot drive in one of the other bays and a data drive to swap under the door.