Precision 7670 & 7770 pre-release discussion (Alder Lake)

[microdou]

Does anyone has recommendation of 4TB SSD? Planning to get two of them for my upcoming 7770.

[pintie]

8 hours ago, AL123 said:

For Solidworks only pro cards are certified and supported,

Well... There is no sharp line between Pro and Consumer...

In my Desktop i have an Titan RTX - This thing supports all Pro features (no ECC) but was listed as consumer...

In fact it was a Quadro RTX 6000 without ECC. you could even use the Quadro drivers.

 

so you're right - but in reality a lot of things work. And for CAD a lot of cards are more than enough even if they are no Pro line.

 

[pintie]

2 hours ago, microdou said:

Does anyone has recommendation of 4TB SSD? Planning to get two of them for my upcoming 7770.

or you could use 4 x Samsung 980 Pro 2TB. cheap (i paid 220€/piece) and super fast and reliable.

 

if it has to be 4 or 8 TB i would try the Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus

[AL123]

1 hour ago, pintie said:

Well... There is no sharp line between Pro and Consumer...

In my Desktop i have an Titan RTX - This thing supports all Pro features (no ECC) but was listed as consumer...

In fact it was a Quadro RTX 6000 without ECC. you could even use the Quadro drivers.

 

so you're right - but in reality a lot of things work. And for CAD a lot of cards are more than enough even if they are no Pro line.

 

It depends, and certainly the blurring of product lines isn’t too helpful. When they got rid of the Quadro brand it caused even more confusion with similar sounding cards e.g GeForce Rtx 3060 vs the pro RTX A3000

 

 I’ve had to deal with the fallout from unsupported hardware purchases so I know first hand it can lead to some awkward conversations if the issue isn’t replicable on a certified system with a pro card you can be in a difficult place! 

 

if you are doing it for a living I wouldn’t risk using a card not certified/ supported by a software vendor. Most software will still run on the consumer card but you are more venerable to an update in either software, OS or drivers breaking things the software vendors work hard with NVIDIA pro graphics team to test and hopefully avoid this!

 

plus I tested a medium size dataset In SolidWorks recently on an rtx 3080 the assembly had about 6000 parts and rotation/ zoom was around 5-6fps in shaded with edges mode 1920x1080

 on an rtx a4000 desktop it was over 60fps so huge noticeable difference in day to day work.

 

Given the pricing is also much closer these days it is a smaller compromise although I appreciate it hurts getting less Cores etc for the same/ more money if your productivity and livelihood depends on it then pro all the way. If you aren’t using applications In that way the I can see why the GeForce is tempting! 

[Reshen]

15 hours ago, operator said:

Why do you spend the money for expensive Dell SSDs and not buy them separately?

This is a business purchase so it's just easier to get everything at once. Also the pro support will cover everything.

 

I think I'm going to change the GPU to the A5500. As nice as the 3080ti sounds, I'll be annoyed if I run into any compatibility issues with ANSYS etc.

 

FWIW, I tested the Win10 scaling with ANSYS and Solidworks and it works on 4k resolution on my 7510. I somehow remember that it didn't when I first got the machine. I wonder if there have been any Win or GPU updates that solved the issue?

 

 

[AL123]

5 hours ago, Reshen said:

This is a business purchase so it's just easier to get everything at once. Also the pro support will cover everything.

 

I think I'm going to change the GPU to the A5500. As nice as the 3080ti sounds, I'll be annoyed if I run into any compatibility issues with ANSYS etc.

 

FWIW, I tested the Win10 scaling with ANSYS and Solidworks and it works on 4k resolution on my 7510. I somehow remember that it didn't when I first got the machine. I wonder if there have been any Win or GPU updates that solved the issue?

 

 

Yeh we do the same with ours even try to keep to 1 larger ssd as IT find setting up bitlocker easier

 

as for graphics Looks like ansys have tested the RTX A series, understandably not the A4500/a5500 laptop cards yet but they are just changes of cores/memory so should be fine 

 

see https://www.ansys.com/content/dam/it-solutions/platform-support/graphical-display-graphics-cards-tested-2022-r1.pdf

 

I know solidworks have also as I run a 7760 with a4000 with all SOlidWorks apps and they will be testing the 7670/7770 asap. 
 

As for the 4k if you tested older versions last time it could be that also I know a lot was fixed In recent SolidWorks versions for sure. Most of the issue now relate to multiple different screens with different resolutions/ scaling. If you move windows between them it doesn’t rescale correctly currently. 

[Reshen]

55 minutes ago, AL123 said:

As for the 4k if you tested older versions last time it could be that also I know a lot was fixed In recent SolidWorks versions for sure. Most of the issue now relate to multiple different screens with different resolutions/ scaling. If you move windows between them it doesn’t rescale correctly currently. 

Yeah. I was on big project for a couple of years and I froze my platforms for my own sanity. Time to test the new stuff!

 

Oh well, I hope a A5500 games well 🙂 (But seriously, this is secondary)

 

Edit: Anyone have a recommendation for a backpack type bag? I've had a Targus one and it's been durable.

[SvenC]

On 7/19/2022 at 4:57 AM, microdou said:

Does anyone has recommendation of 4TB SSD? Planning to get two of them for my upcoming 7770.

I am awaiting a Crucial P3 Pro 4TB - preordered for 443€. Might arrive today or tomorrow. Cant use it to its full potential on my 7740 which has only PCIe 3 slots, but will carry it over to the next laptop. I'll report back how it goes.

 

Edit: The initial estimate after pre-order was 19th of Juli, now arrival is estimated in two month - so it will take a while to say something about that model.

Edited July 20, 2022 by SvenC

[Aaron44126]

8 hours ago, microdou said:

Does anyone has recommendation of 4TB SSD? Planning to get two of them for my upcoming 7770.

 

6 hours ago, pintie said:

if it has to be 4 or 8 TB i would try the Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus

 

I went for Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus for 8TB drives.  (Hope there's no issue with them in the 7770, either with capacity or with the fact that these are "double-sided" drives.  We'll find out soon.)

 

Sabrent drives have a five-year warranty if you register them.  They also have Sabrent Rocket (not plus) which would be a bit cheaper but is just PCIe3, and Sabrent Rocket Q which would be a bit cheaper yet because it is QLC.  PNY also makes some high-capacity drives with five-year warranty.

 

4 hours ago, Reshen said:

FWIW, I tested the Win10 scaling with ANSYS and Solidworks and it works on 4k resolution on my 7510. I somehow remember that it didn't when I first got the machine. I wonder if there have been any Win or GPU updates that solved the issue?

 

There definitely have been improvements to the whole scaling situation since Windows 10 & Precision 7510 were first released (they came in the same year).  I think the 2016 and 2017 updates ("Anniversary Update" / "Creators Update") in particular added some notable improvements.  (Plus, developers have been improving their apps for high-DPI displays over time.)

 

3 hours ago, Reshen said:

Oh well, I hope a A5500 games well 🙂

 

I do not think you will be disappointed...

I've been gaming on a Quadro for ten years (K5000M and M5000M in Precision M6700) and it never seemed like I was missing out compared to GeForce of the same spec.  ...For "work", I do some resource-heavy stuff (VMs & SQL database) but nothing that really stresses the GPU; I went with GeForce in the 7770 because I really just want it for gaming.

 

4 hours ago, AL123 said:

as for graphics Looks like ansys have tested the RTX A series, understandably not the A4500/a5500 laptop cards yet but they are just changes of cores/memory so should be fine

 

see https://www.ansys.com/content/dam/it-solutions/platform-support/graphical-display-graphics-cards-tested-2022-r1.pdf

 

I know solidworks have also as I run a 7760 with a4000 with all SOlidWorks apps and they will be testing the 7670/7770 asap.

 

Regarding what apps have been tested, you can search at http://precisionworkstations.com/software-certification-lookup, they have Precision 7X70 results that have not been published in the "final documentation" PDF files yet.

[Conan11]

7 hours ago, pintie said:

or you could use 4 x Samsung 980 Pro 2TB. cheap (i paid 220€/piece) and super fast and reliable.

 

if it has to be 4 or 8 TB i would try the Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus

Rocket 4 Plus 4TB has endurance of 3PB, while Firecuda 530 has 5.1TB. Any arguments for Sabrent, besides lower price?

 

And there's also Corsair MP600 PRO XT with similar specs to Sabrent.

[Aaron44126]

On 7/12/2022 at 8:06 AM, Aaron44126 said:

Not sure where to find the GeForce part number.  On the quote, it says 490-BHOM; I think that is an order/item SKU code and not the actual part number.  Maybe I'll be able to find the part number after the service tag is issued.

 

Obtained my service tag but any attempt to pull the parts list is kicking out an error, I guess it is still a bit too early...

[operator]

1 hour ago, Conan11 said:

Rocket 4 Plus 4TB has endurance of 3PB, while Firecuda 530 has 5.1TB. Any arguments for Sabrent, besides lower price?

 

And there's also Corsair MP600 PRO XT with similar specs to Sabrent.

 

I think I will also go for the FireCuda 530.

 

  

8 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Obtained my service tag but any attempt to pull the parts list is kicking out an error, I guess it is still a bit too early...

 

Delivery still scheduled for tomorrow?

[Aaron44126]

35 minutes ago, operator said:

Delivery still scheduled for tomorrow?

 

TL;DR:

Well, I don't think so, but it could be "any day now".

 

I was a bit optimistic about that when I first saw it, but have since learned more about the tail end of the order/shipping process...

 

FedEx tracking does still say that the package will be delivered tomorrow, but they don't have the package in hand yet.  I think that it was a default/garbage date that was generated when the shipping label was created.  They will surely update it when Dell hands over the package.  I was poking around Reddit threads yesterday, getting an idea for "how long between build complete and package handoff" or "how long between shipping label created and package handoff", and it is anywhere from a few days to a about week.  (Even though the "build complete" step happened this past Saturday, I don't know if the package would have had any real movement during the weekend.  If it has been flown out of China by now then it seems like a delivery within the next 1-3 days is possible.)

 

The ambiguity here isn't really Dell's fault.  I'm not supposed to "know" the tracking number yet (Dell has not provided it, I found it through FedEx Delivery Manager).  Dell creates the FedEx label when the system build is done (presumably they go ahead and slap it on the box) but the anticipated ship date that FedEx is showing is not accurate, the system still needs to make its way over from China.  I might have only about 18 hours "warning" between when the physical package makes its way into the FedEx system and when it shows up at my house.  Both Precision 7530 and 7560 systems we got had the first scan into the FedEx system in Chicago happening late in the day (7-8 PM) and then the systems were delivered the following business day (FedEx stops by my house at around 1 PM).

 

...Hoping the handoff happens by Thursday evening so that I can have this weekend to play with it and get stuff set up.  (FedEx will not deliver during the weekend.)  But I'd settle for just knowing where the package is.  Dell is still saying "shipping" will happen on July 24 (Sunday) and delivery by July 26 (a week from now).  I'll just be checking every evening and wondering if today is the day...

[win32asmguy]

8 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

FedEx tracking does still say that the package will be delivered tomorrow, but they don't have the package in hand yet.  I think that it was a default/garbage date that was generated when the shipping label was created.  They will surely update it when Dell hands over the package.  I was poking around Reddit threads yesterday, getting an idea for "how long between build complete and package handoff" or "how long between shipping label created and package handoff", and it is anywhere from a few days to a about week.  (Even though the "build complete" step happened this past Saturday, I don't know if the package would have had any real movement during the weekend.  If it has been flown out of China by now then it seems like a delivery within the next 1-3 days is possible.)

For the 7760 I ordered last year, it was confirmed on 7/12, went into production on 8/19, shipped 8/25, picked up by Fedex in Chicago 8/30, delivered in Colorado 9/2.

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

For the 7760 I ordered last year, it was confirmed on 7/12, went into production on 8/19, shipped 8/25, picked up by Fedex in Chicago 8/30, delivered in Colorado 9/2.

 

7560 last year.

Ordered & confirmed 6/17 (two days after launch)

Production 7/4

"Shipped" 7/19

Tendered in Chicago 7/23 (...a Friday...)

FedEx had it at a local facility by 7/24 and it was delivered 7/26.

...About 5.5 weeks end-to-end.

 

What is missing is the "build complete" step, which isn't logged on the order status page for U.S. orders, if you don't happen to catch it when it happens.  Can't really tell how long it took for them to get it from China to the U.S. after assembly was complete.

 

(I don't think the "Shipped" step can be pegged down to a specific point in the process.  Reading timelines on Reddit, I see that sometimes this happens on the same day that they get the package to FedEx, and sometimes it happens several days before that.  I even saw a few reports where the laptop showed up at the doorstep before Dell marked it "Shipped".)

 

Coincidentally, that one was delivered on 7/26, which is the same as the expected delivery date for my 7770, one year later.

 

Looks like your 7760 from last year was more like 7.5 weeks.  I know some others went on for over two months.

 

I was hoping that things would move along a little quicker this year because the supply chain situation is somewhat relieved (but not all of the way back to normal).  Previous launch Precisions I have been involved with (M6700 and 7530) arrived in about 2.5 weeks.  Mine appears to be on track for that but I haven't heard of anyone else's moving to production yet...

[Howard N]

I just joined the forum to ask this question.

I have previously owned about 6 different precision workstation generations, the most recent is a 7750 which I am presently using. I am looking at the 7770 and a 7670. I would always go with the most built-up model based upon my particular needs and I am stuck with a problem between the two models. On the one hand, the 7770 is the most powerful - which I need for computation limited tasks and for major data requirements that I also have. On the other hand the maximum vertical resolution is presently greater on the 7670 at 3840x2400 pixels as compared to a maximum on the 7770 of 3840 x 2160. The extra 10% vertical resolution limits the benefits of upgrading. Does anyone know if the higher resolution UHD+ is going to be offered as an option on the 7770 in the future?

[Aaron44126]

1 minute ago, Howard N said:

Does anyone know if the higher resolution UHD+ is going to be offered as an option on the 7770 in the future?

 

UHD+ will not be offered in the 7770.  7770 is a 16:9 chassis and 7670 is 16:10.  It's a trade-off 😕.

 

I'd hazard a guess that the same will be true for next year's "7780" and "7680" systems.  (Dell likes to use the same chassis for at least two iterations.)

[Howard N]

Aaron. Thank you. Sorry to hear that though. My work around has always been to include a separate 12" iPad running Duet and it is linked via a cable as a dual monitor when traveling. When at home I dock the workstation and have two monitors attached with the laptop cover closed. One laptop is in horizontal mode (8k Dell UP3218k) and a second in vertical position which is a (4k Dell U2720Q). The combination works well.

 

 

[microdou]

19 hours ago, pintie said:

Samsung 980 Pro 2TB

Thanks! I may go with Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, or the Sabrent brand that I'm not familiar to.

 

I'm a bit disappointed with the latest Samsung 980 Pro, because instead of MLC, it's using TLC for pro line now.

 

I wonder what brand Dell is actually using for the 4TB SSD in 7770/7670. At such a high price, is it faster/more reliable than the Sabrent 4TB?

 

 

[microdou]

12 hours ago, Conan11 said:

Rocket 4 Plus 4TB has endurance of 3PB, while Firecuda 530 has 5.1TB. Any arguments for Sabrent, besides lower price?

 

And there's also Corsair MP600 PRO XT with similar specs to Sabrent.

👍 Have to do some research. Previously, its just a no-brainer for me to go with Samsung 970 Pro with MLC chips. Now every brand is using the shady TLC 😅

[microdou]

15 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus for 8TB drives

😍

 

15 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Sabrent Rocket Q which would be a bit cheaper yet because it is QLC

Must avoid QLC! Have a Samsung QLC 8 TB at hand, very slow!

[Aaron44126]

43 minutes ago, microdou said:

I wonder what brand Dell is actually using for the 4TB SSD in 7770/7670. At such a high price, is it faster/more reliable than the Sabrent 4TB?

 

Eh.  Dell's SSD prices are always high.  Just look at price comparisons to Samsung Pro (on capacities where they match offerings); Dell charges around twice as much and I think most people would agree that Samsung is a leader when it comes to both speed and reliability.

 

There is a place for QLC (when capacity & price matter more than speed).  I also have a Samsung 8TB QLC drive that I use for bulk storage and it is fine for that purpose.  I wouldn't use it for an OS/VM drive or something.

 

Sabrent is less familiar to me as well.  I've been using a 4TB Sabrent drive in my Precision 7560 for about a year and it's been fine.  They've been pushing the boundaries of the NVMe 2280 SSD space for a couple of years now.  They were the first to offer an 8TB drive (in 2020, starting with QLC).  I think they have the only PCIe4 8TB drive on the market, and I know they have the only TLC 8TB drive on the market (and it's the same drive, Rocket 4 Plus 8TB).

[microdou]

25 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

I wouldn't use it for an OS/VM drive or something.

Yeah, that's exactly how I found out the slowness. When my VM file is located on QLC, it gives me random freezes.

[Victor]

6 hours ago, microdou said:

I wonder what brand Dell is actually using for the 4TB SSD in 7770/7670. At such a high price, is it faster/more reliable than the Sabrent 4TB?

 

AFAIK, KIOXIA has 4TB models with PCIe4.0x4 interface (XG7-P or XG8 series) for OEM purpose. 4TB models from other brands are all retail products. Correct me If I’m wrong. 😄

 

[Aaron44126]

Touchpad firmware update...  That's sort of unusual.

https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=J7FDY