Precision 7670 & 7770 pre-release discussion (Alder Lake)

[FabeFromBOD]

On 9/19/2022 at 1:28 PM, Aaron44126 said:

The heatsink will not fit.  Get it without.

 

What do you think about the new 990 pro ? is it a good alternative ?

[Aaron44126]

2 minutes ago, FabeFromBOD said:

What do you about the new 990 pro ? is it a good alternative ?

 

My understanding is that it is a little bit faster and a little bit more expensive.  I'm sure it's a fine drive, but "noticing a real-world difference" from 980 Pro (other than benchmarks) would probably be difficult.

[microdou]

On 9/17/2022 at 2:04 PM, microdou said:

After exactly 2 months, my order of 7770 with SSD door is in production 🥳

 

 

The order page had been showing "Build Complete and sheduled to arrive end of month".

 

Suddenly it shows the machine has arrived in Chicargo and will be delivered in two days 🥳

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, microdou said:

The order page had been showing "Build Complete and sheduled to arrive end of month".

 

Suddenly it shows the machine has arrived in Chicargo and will be delivered in two days 🥳

 

My 7770 order status shows that it was expected to ship on Sept 18 -- three days ago.  But it doesn't show that it shipped, and I haven't received a shipping confirmation yet.

I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised but 🤷‍♂️.

[Frosty]

I received an email from Dell this morning (the first in many weeks) indicating that my 7770 just shipped.  It linked to a tracking number.  I clicked the tracking link, which opened the courier's website showing that that 7770 was delivered to my studio yesterday.

The order status page still shows that the laptop was scheduled to be shipped on Sep 18 with an expected arrival date of Sept 28.

It's a little annoying that Dell can't keep order status straight or send accurate, meaningful status updates, since that meant an extra hour of driving for me today, but at least I have my new laptop ahead of schedule.

[Frosty]

Any suggestions for a dock to use with my new 7770?  I've had awful experiences with Dell's dock for the 7730, so not partial to Dell at all.

[AL123]

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Any suggestions for a dock to use with my new 7770?  I've had awful experiences with Dell's dock for the 7730, so not partial to Dell at all.

We’ve found the WD19DC/S reliable in recent years. I remember the first TB-16 docks were a horror show we gave up on them and went back to the old display link docks even though they weren’t ideal. However once we tried the WD19DC things were gradually more positive with just a few BIOS/firmware updates needed before rolling out company wide.

 

Have been pretty rock solid for us running precision 7740-7760 worst I’ve had reported has been occasional need to reboot the dock by pulling the power cable and reconnect everything.
 

I think of them as a small computer so expect to have restart them on occasion as they are in an office and run for long periods . Only briefly tested with precision 7670 and 7770 but didn’t note any issues so far. They do only deliver 210W vs 240W from the power supply but you can always connect the power supply also when worried about absolute peak performance 

 

 

 

[SilverAzide]

2 hours ago, Frosty said:

Any suggestions for a dock to use with my new 7770?  I've had awful experiences with Dell's dock for the 7730, so not partial to Dell at all.

I'm using the Thunderbolt 4 dock, WD22TB4. The downside to this dock it is can't power the laptop by itself, so you still need the power brick.  The other dock people use (and which Dell actually recommends) is the WD19DC/S one, which can power the laptop if you use both USB-C connections.  I wanted the TB4 connections, so I went with the TB dock.

[FabeFromBOD]

20 hours ago, AL123 said:

We’ve found the WD19DC/S reliable in recent years. I remember the first TB-16 docks were a horror show we gave up on them and went back to the old display link docks even though they weren’t ideal. However once we tried the WD19DC things were gradually more positive with just a few BIOS/firmware updates needed before rolling out company wide.

 

Have been pretty rock solid for us running precision 7740-7760 worst I’ve had reported has been occasional need to reboot the dock by pulling the power cable and reconnect everything.
 

I think of them as a small computer so expect to have restart them on occasion as they are in an office and run for long periods . Only briefly tested with precision 7670 and 7770 but didn’t note any issues so far. They do only deliver 210W vs 240W from the power supply but you can always connect the power supply also when worried about absolute peak performance 

 

 

 

 

Idem for us.

[SvenC]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:51 AM, SvenC said:

I am awaiting a Crucial P3 Pro 4TB - preordered for 443€. Might arrive today or tomorrow. Cant use it to its full potential on my 7740 which has only PCIe 3 slots, but will carry it over to the next laptop. I'll report back how it goes.

 

Edit: The initial estimate after pre-order was 19th of Juli, now arrival is estimated in two month - so it will take a while to say something about that model.

Realized the P3 Plus is QLC which I wanted to avoid for my OS drive.So I used the delay to switch to ADATA Gammix S70 Blade 4TB - fits easily and has nice numbers in my 7740 which has only PCIe 3, so the PCIe 4 drive will have to wait for the next laptop to get full specs. Current I see this:

 

[SvenC]

Hmm, my new ADATA S70 blade just failed, after 4 days 😞 

Win 11 BSOD, no bootable device. Booted into Win10 on my other disk. Disk management shows an uninitialized 2GB disk???

ADATA SSD Toolbox shows a MN-5236 with no size onformation, instead of the S70.

Anybody seen such a thing? And advise (except contacting support, which I did)?

[Frosty]

On 9/24/2022 at 12:55 PM, AL123 said:

We’ve found the WD19DC/S reliable in recent years. I remember the first TB-16 docks were a horror show we gave up on them and went back to the old display link docks even though they weren’t ideal. However once we tried the WD19DC things were gradually more positive with just a few BIOS/firmware updates needed before rolling out company wide.

 

Have been pretty rock solid for us running precision 7740-7760 worst I’ve had reported has been occasional need to reboot the dock by pulling the power cable and reconnect everything.
 

I think of them as a small computer so expect to have restart them on occasion as they are in an office and run for long periods . Only briefly tested with precision 7670 and 7770 but didn’t note any issues so far. They do only deliver 210W vs 240W from the power supply but you can always connect the power supply also when worried about absolute peak performance 

 

Interesting.  My experience with the TB18DC dock caused me to lose my hair.  It was a struggle to get it to stay connected and work properly.  I gave up on Dell docks because of that experience.  I expected such an expensive piece of hardware to be well-designed and reliable.  I'm glad that you're having a good experience with the WD19DC.  Hopefully Dell has learned from the debacle of the TB18DC.
 

Quote

They do only deliver 210W vs 240W from the power supply but you can always connect the power supply also when worried about absolute peak performance 

Noted.  Fewer cables is better, but connecting the power supply isn't a big deal.

 

On 9/24/2022 at 1:45 PM, SilverAzide said:

I'm using the Thunderbolt 4 dock, WD22TB4. The downside to this dock it is can't power the laptop by itself, so you still need the power brick.  The other dock people use (and which Dell actually recommends) is the WD19DC/S one, which can power the laptop if you use both USB-C connections.  I wanted the TB4 connections, so I went with the TB dock.

 

Have you had any issues with the WD22TB4?  I'm looking for a TB4 port also, so that's likely what I'll end up with.  I'm not in a hurry so I'll set up a monitor on that page to see when/if it goes on sale.

Is anyone else here using a third-party TB4 dock like Belkin or Kensington or Brydge?

 

[Frosty]

What do I need to know about drives for my 7770?  Will any M.2 drive work?

I ordered my 7770 with a single 512 GB drive, planning to buy new drives separately. Belarc Advisor identifies the installed drive as "NVMe PC801 NVMe SK hynix 512GB".

 

For my 7730 I had a variety of 1-2 TB Samsung 970 Evo Pro and Plus drives, since as a photographer I need plenty of storage.  Is there any performance advantage to replacing those drives with newer versions or should I continue using them in my new machine?

[Frosty]

Also, has anyone sourced a power supply for the 7770?  I like to leave one at my studio and havbe another in my laptop bag.

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

What do I need to know about drives for my 7770?  Will any M.2 drive work?

 

Yes, as long as it physically fits, and as long as it is NVMe and not SATA (some older Precision systems supported both NVMe and SATA for M.2).  For Samsung drives, 800-models are SATA and 900-models are NVMe.  2280 size drives work.  Shorter drives like 2242 will need a spacer adapter.  Drives that come with a heatsink attached will probably not fit.

 

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

For my 7730 I had a variety of 1-2 TB Samsung 970 Evo Pro and Plus drives, since as a photographer I need plenty of storage.  Is there any performance advantage to replacing those drives with newer versions or should I continue using them in my new machine?

 

For dealing with photos, even with large volumes of files, I can't imagine that you'll see much real workflow improvement from moving to PCIe3 to PCIe4.  (Using your old drives is fine, just make sure you have a backup strategy.)

 

You can find 4TB and 8TB size drives these days, and these will also work.  (I can confirm that 8TB works, even though it is not listed on Dell's spec sheet and they are not offering it.)  Samsung will have 990 Pro available in 4TB next year.

 

1 hour ago, Frosty said:

Also, has anyone sourced a power supply for the 7770?  I like to leave one at my studio and havbe another in my laptop bag.

 

All of the different Dell 240W power adapter models are cross-compatible.  I am using the big fat PA-9E 240W adapters (came bundled with Precision M6600-7720) and they work fine with 7770.  I literally have them scattered around my house, hidden under furniture and such, in places where I tend to use my laptop, and I was glad that I did not have to replace any of them when I got the 7770.  They are also pretty cheap to source.  You could leave one of these at the office and put the slim one that came with the system in your travel bag.

 

(Any power adapter that worked with your 7730 should also work with the 7770.)

[Frosty]

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Yes, as long as it physically fits, and as long as it is NVMe and not SATA (some older Precision systems supported both NVMe and SATA for M.2).  For Samsung drives, 800-models are SATA and 900-models are NVMe.  2280 size drives work.  Shorter drives like 2242 will need a spacer adapter.  Drives that come with a heatsink attached will probably not fit.

 

Some drives that would otherwise be compatible won't physically fit?  Interesting.  I'll keep that in mind.

  

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

For dealing with photos, even with large volumes of files, I can't imagine that you'll see much real workflow improvement from moving to PCIe3 to PCIe4.  (Using your old drives is fine, just make sure you have a backup strategy.)

Good to know that, thanks.  I do have a vigorous backup strategy involving 2 x 8-bay Synology NAS devices and unlimited Dropbox storage.

  

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

You can find 4TB and 8TB size drives these days, and these will also work.  (I can confirm that 8TB works, even though it is not listed on Dell's spec sheet and they are not offering it.)  Samsung will have 990 Pro available in 4TB next year.

 

It doesn't look like my local retailer has any 4 TB drives in stock so in the interest of finalizing setting up my 7770 sooner than later, I might standardize on 2 TB drivres for now.

 

  

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

They are also pretty cheap to source.  You could leave one of these at the office and put the slim one that came with the system in your travel bag.

 

(Any power adapter that worked with your 7730 should also work with the 7770.)

 

Excellent.  Thanks for this information.  Since I already have four power adapters for my 7730, I'll do as you suggested and keep the big, heavy adapters at my work desks and keep the new, light adapter in the bag.

 

[Aaron44126]

21 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Some drives that would otherwise be compatible won't physically fit?  Interesting.  I'll keep that in mind.

 

M.2 drives come in different sizes.  2280 is the longest that you would typically see.  (That refers to 22×80mm.)  All of the slots in Precision 7X70 can accommodate 2280 drives.

 

 

You can install the shorter drives in a 2280 slot with a simple adapter like this.  It's just a spacer that makes the drive longer.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B084VLMQWC

 

Even with the Precision 7770, if you order the smallest size drive (256GB?), they ship it to you as 2242 with adapter in the system.

 

Drives like Samsung 980 Pro with heatsink won't fit because you can't close the case down over the heatsink, it makes the drive too "tall".

[Light]

Also debating on whether to wait for the Samsung 990 Pro to be released October 2022, or go with the already great-performance 980 Pro

 

The 990 pro says: "Samsung’s newly designed controller dramatically improves the SSD’s power efficiency by up to 50% compared to the 980 PRO" and boosts performance from 

 

Sequential Read/Write Speed	990 pro Up to 7,450 MB/s, Up to 6,900 MB/s vs 980 pro Up to 6,900 MB/s, Up to 5,000 MB/s
Random Read/Write Speed (QD32)	990 pro Up to 1,400K IOPS, Up to 1,550K IOPS vs 980 pro Up to 1,000K IOPS, Up to 1,000K IOPS

[Light]

I wonder if October 2022 will be sooner or later... my new precision should arrive this week 🙂 😄

[Light]

Also with the SODIMM ECC option, does the "interposer" support two SODIMM modules? 

[operator]

1 hour ago, Light said:

Also with the SODIMM ECC option, does the "interposer" support two SODIMM modules? 

 

Yes. The Interposer has 2 slots and according to Dell online configurator, you can do configuration for example with 2x16 GB ECC.

[Light]

I ordered with 1x16 GB ECC. 
Now I'm wondering if I should add an additional 16GB module while I have it open to add SSDs.

On the support -> parts page for the 7770 it doesn't appear I can currently buy a matching 16 GB ECC SO-DIMM module from dell (only seeing non ECC modules.) What would be the matching 16 GB ECC SO-DIMM module to purchase online? Should I match brands to what dell uses?

[SvenC]

37 minutes ago, Light said:

I ordered with 1x16 GB ECC. 
Now I'm wondering if I should add an additional 16GB module while I have it open to add SSDs.

On the support -> parts page for the 7770 it doesn't appear I can currently buy a matching 16 GB ECC SO-DIMM module from dell (only seeing non ECC modules.) What would be the matching 16 GB ECC SO-DIMM module to purchase online? Should I match brands to what dell uses?

 

I seem to remember that DDR5 SO-DIMM has always ECC. Everything listed here says "on-die ECC": Arbeitsspeicher (RAM) Speicher mit Typen: DDR5/SO-DIMM, Kitgröße: ab 32GB Preisvergleich Geizhals Deutschland. About €180 for 32GB kits and €330 for 64GB kits - might be the safest to exchange with two identical instead of adding one to an existing from Dell.

[pintie]

on die ECC is not the real ECC.

 

let's call it ECC light. it is only single bit and interal in the chip. The real ECC is multibit and covers the way to the CPU.

 

[Aaron44126]

Right, there is still a difference between on-die ECC (which is certainly “better than nothing”) and “real ECC”.

 

If you want to add another 16GB module, I’d wait until the system arrives.  Use a tool like CPU-Z to get the module timings (CL, etc.) and then make sure that the new module that you get matches that.  Doesn’t have to be the same brand (but I’d probably get the exact same module if I could find it for purchase at a reasonable price…)