Official Clevo NH55JNNQ / NH5xJNxx 12th gen Socket 1700 LGA laptop thread

[win32asmguy]

7 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Congrats on the purchase and I am VERY interested in your results and assessment especially CPU thermal characteristics and PL along with a touch of CCC, XTU or TS to see how much it can be tamed and get a look around that BIOS.

Thanks. It will be good to have more information about it so we can know the limitations and hurdles instead of just speculating. If anything it should be a good alternative to high end full BGA which have their own different set of issues and limitations.

 

From what I understand the bios option that allows XTU and TS to work should still be supported on H670, correct? It does not matter if it is hidden or not by the stock bios as I can always modify it using EFI setup variables.

 

18 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

Does this offer G-Sync, Advanced Optimus, or a MUX at the very least? Or is the 3070 Ti permanently connected to the display?

No G-Sync or Advanced Optimus. There should be a MUX as it is described as having one in the user manual. All of the tests Eurocom ran were in hybrid mode as it shows the Intel HD 770 GPU listed in the results. The manual also describes the HDMI, mDP and USB-C all connected to the Nvidia GPU as well.

[electrosoft]

13 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Thanks. It will be good to have more information about it so we can know the limitations and hurdles instead of just speculating. If anything it should be a good alternative to high end full BGA which have their own different set of issues and limitations.

 

From what I understand the bios option that allows XTU and TS to work should still be supported on H670, correct? It does not matter if it is hidden or not by the stock bios as I can always modify it using EFI setup variables.

 

No G-Sync or Advanced Optimus. There should be a MUX as it is described as having one in the user manual. All of the tests Eurocom ran were in hybrid mode as it shows the Intel HD 770 GPU listed in the results. The manual also describes the HDMI, mDP and USB-C all connected to the Nvidia GPU as well.

 

I'm glad you took the plunge. I know the X170KM-G didn't really pan out like you expected. Looking forward to a complete breakdown and analysis.

 

If it is using the Insyder BIOS (which looking at screen shots it does), then it should have access to at a minimum thermal manipulation (Uv, PL, etc...) and most likely underclocking.  I would be curious to see how a k class chip works in there with XTU and TS vs the silicon level locked down 12900.

 

I don't worry too much about gsync these days so that's no loss.

 

 

[win32asmguy]

12 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

I'm glad you took the plunge. I know the X170KM-G didn't really pan out like you expected. Looking forward to a complete breakdown and analysis.

 

If it is using the Insyder BIOS (which looking at screen shots it does), then it should have access to at a minimum thermal manipulation (Uv, PL, etc...) and most likely underclocking.  I would be curious to see how a k class chip works in there with XTU and TS vs the silicon level locked down 12900.

 

I don't worry too much about gsync these days so that's no loss.

 

 

Yeah, I kind of gave up on the X170KM. How is the fan noise on the X170SM with the binned CPU? Does it jump up under short bursts like loading a web page? Ideally for me the fans could be running at a constant low RPM, and smoothly adjust upward under sustained load.

[Clamibot]

I find the X170SM-G runs pretty quiet until put under a heavy sustained load. For me, the only tasks the fans ramp up for are benchmarks and games. They run pretty quiet at all other times.

[electrosoft]

13 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Yeah, I kind of gave up on the X170KM. How is the fan noise on the X170SM with the binned CPU? Does it jump up under short bursts like loading a web page? Ideally for me the fans could be running at a constant low RPM, and smoothly adjust upward under sustained load.

 

 

59 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

I find the X170SM-G runs pretty quiet until put under a heavy sustained load. For me, the only tasks the fans ramp up for are benchmarks and games. They run pretty quiet at all other times.

 

After binning, tweaking, some further heatsink mods and of course Prema it stays absolutely near quiet low fans unless under meaningful load then the fans finally come alive. Surfing and such it stays even and near silent.

 

I will say binning some 10900k's made a marked difference in Vcore, pull and temps at stock and with the same uv applied (-90).

 

This 12900k I have pulls less than all of those 10900k's at stock (208w) and with an undervolt it pulls ~162w on average running CB23. Compared to the worse 12900k I tested that would bork on any UV and needed ~252w to pass stock. When I was binning several 12900k's it stood out from the other ones quickly in its pull and temps.

 

Good 12900k:

 

 

 

 

 

Bad 12900k:

 

[GT3000]

Scooping this one as well. QHD screens were delayed and should arrive later this week but otherwise ready to go. Went with the 12600 due to talk about the IHS warping on the 12900 and just waiting to scoop up a 12700 for cheap as they begin clearancing out for the new Raptor Lake later this year. I'll likely opt for a high end raptor lake when those themselves begin clearancing out and someone fills the void left by Silicon Lottery, not really interested in delidding anything myself.

[electrosoft]

20 minutes ago, GT3000 said:

Scooping this one as well. QHD screens were delayed and should arrive later this week but otherwise ready to go. Went with the 12600 due to talk about the IHS warping on the 12900 and just waiting to scoop up a 12700 for cheap as they begin clearancing out for the new Raptor Lake later this year. I'll likely opt for a high end raptor lake when those themselves begin clearancing out and someone fills the void left by Silicon Lottery, not really interested in delidding anything myself.

 

Congrats on the scoop! Looking forward to seeing your results too especially with a 12600 vs @win32asmguy's 12900 to establish some baselines.

 

On a 15" chassis 1080p would be my go to but my eyes aren't as good as they used to be.

 

The warping issue is mainly for waterblocks and poor back plates. On my desktop I run an Arctic Cool LF II 420 and the socket 1700 kit is a strong, metal back plate. I've been running it for 5-6 months now and when I swapped in a 12900ks to test last week everything was even and straight.

 

With this laptop Heatsink you will get nowhere near the tension of a desktop board so warping won't be an issue.

 

Always a good strategy to get the cheapest, decent CPU offered and select/bin yourself. My plan, if this works out, is to ride my "cool hand luke" 12900k to RPL and then upgrade to it or AMD's new CPUs and slide this puppy into an X15 or similar at that time.

 

 

[win32asmguy]

2 hours ago, GT3000 said:

Scooping this one as well. QHD screens were delayed and should arrive later this week but otherwise ready to go. Went with the 12600 due to talk about the IHS warping on the 12900 and just waiting to scoop up a 12700 for cheap as they begin clearancing out for the new Raptor Lake later this year. I'll likely opt for a high end raptor lake when those themselves begin clearancing out and someone fills the void left by Silicon Lottery, not really interested in delidding anything myself.

Nice! Mine with FHD did ship late last week so I should get it this week.

 

Maybe if I am lucky the 12900 will be a decent bin. If not then I will just use it at lower power limits until I can either bin a 12900k myself or purchase one from someone moving to a 12900ks or raptor lake.

[GT3000]

Ended up seeing a steal on a 1700 board + 12700k (wasted on this laptop board with the locked BIOs but can't complain) and DDR5 RAM with Dying Light 2 for 450 which will be here Thursday. I'm getting it as a gift for the wife since she's still rocking a 8600k so I'll likely kick her the 12600 when it gets closer to her birthday in the summer along with the components and take the 12700k so I'll run some benches well before that happens. Figure I'll just swap it in with the first repasting if I'm not happy with the temps from Eurocom. I'm hesitant to move to a 12900 since I hear this gen runs really really hot.

 

As far as the QHD, I tried it on another laptop and I don't think I can go back to 1080p especially for gamedev. The real estate is just so juicy and 17" is too much machine to lug around back and forth everyday to work.

I am curious has anyone seen any laptop skins/keyboard covers for this Clevo yet? I'm keeping my ear to the ground on Aliexpress and I haven't seen anything. Must be too new. My current F5 Tornado has been wrapped up since day one as I hate seeing wear on my keys/rest. Going to be annoying to not be able to wrap it from day one.

[win32asmguy]

The heatsink is different than the photos on Eurocom's site. It does have 4 screws for the CPU, but only two heatpipes going to just one fan. For Entertainment mode, PL1 is 65W, PL2 is 125W. HWInfo64 says 240A for its IccMax.

 

The bios has no MUX option and the display is connected to the iGPU. It will not be great if it cannot be switched to the Nvidia GPU.

[Clamibot]

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

The heatsink is different than the photos on Eurocom's site. It does have 4 screws for the CPU, but only two heatpipes going to just one fan. For Entertainment mode, PL1 is 65W, PL2 is 125W. HWInfo64 says 240A for its IccMax.

 

The bios has no MUX option and the display is connected to the iGPU. It will not be great if it cannot be switched to the Nvidia GPU.

 

Thanks for taking the plunge for us! We really appreciate this information!

 

Is that a 2.5 inch drive bay I see next to the RAM? (On the opposite side of the battery)

 

That sucks that there's no MUX option. Hopefully someone can unlock that because some games run into a significant bottleneck in optimus mode, such as Watch Dogs 2 or anything else that is CPU bound. The framerate gains from switching to dGPU only mode are significant in those cases.

 

Adding an option to switch between iGPU only, optimus, and dGPU only modes would be awesome. You could get amazing battery life when you need it, and maximum processing power when you need it.

 

The CPU really needs another heatpipe, and the CPU fan should've been a dual vent design like the GPU fan.

 

I hope this means we'll have a proper successor to the X170 series. It looks like we may have that happen given Clevo has made another 15 inch Intel LGA laptop.

 

Is there any option to disable the e-cores in the BIOS?

[win32asmguy]

17 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

Thanks for taking the plunge for us! We really appreciate this information!

 

Is that a 2.5 inch drive bay I see next to the RAM? (On the opposite side of the battery)

 

That sucks that there's no MUX option. Hopefully someone can unlock that because some games run into a significant bottleneck in optimus mode, such as Watch Dogs 2 or anything else that is CPU bound. The framerate gains from switching to dGPU only mode are significant in those cases.

 

Adding an option to switch between iGPU only, optimus, and dGPU only modes would be awesome. You could get amazing battery life when you need it, and maximum processing power when you need it.

 

The CPU really needs another heatpipe, and the CPU fan should've been a dual vent design like the GPU fan.

 

I hope this means we'll have a proper successor to the X170 series. It looks like we may have that happen given Clevo has made another 15 inch Intel LGA laptop.

Yeah the user manual had photos of the bios showing the mux option. Unless this motherboard variant does not have the mux chip.

 

As far as the heatsink goes it is strange because there is clearly a channel for a heatpipe going to the other fan. Maybe the 3060 model ships with a 3 CPU heatpipe solution?

 

Oh and yes it has a 2.5 inch drive bay.

[electrosoft]

6 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

The heatsink is different than the photos on Eurocom's site. It does have 4 screws for the CPU, but only two heatpipes going to just one fan. For Entertainment mode, PL1 is 65W, PL2 is 125W. HWInfo64 says 240A for its IccMax.

 

The bios has no MUX option and the display is connected to the iGPU. It will not be great if it cannot be switched to the Nvidia GPU.

 

Yikes, while I'm very glad it is a proper 4-screw CPU heatsink that is lacking some serious pipes compared to the press release and site photos. Even a 125w PL might get torched on what looks like something made for 40-70w. I'll be curious to see what kind of results you achieve. Maybe it has hidden magic somewhere....

 

Looking forward to a further deep dive.

 

Thanks for taking the plunge!

 

 

[GT3000]

The heck on the missing heatpipe? Did you get the 3060 or the 3070? How's the fan noise under load? How's the weight? Any flex on the keyboard when typing?

[win32asmguy]

6 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Yikes, while I'm very glad it is a proper 4-screw CPU heatsink that is lacking some serious pipes compared to the press release and site photos. Even a 125w PL might get torched on what looks like something made for 40-70w. I'll be curious to see what kind of results you achieve. Maybe it has hidden magic somewhere....

 

Looking forward to a further deep dive.

 

Thanks for taking the plunge!

 

 

Performance mode has PL1 set to 70W and PL2 set to 150W. CBR23 17800 with the stock paste job at those limits. I am using some generic DDR4-3200 CL22 memory for now, any suggestions for something better (has to be 32GB kit).

 

5 hours ago, GT3000 said:

The heck on the missing heatpipe? Did you get the 3060 or the 3070? How's the fan noise under load? How's the weight? Any flex on the keyboard when typing?

Mine is the 140W 3070Ti. Fan noise is better than the X170KM. The weight is fine, great for traveling and lap use despite having a modular CPU. The keyboard does not flex, but mine did arrive with what I think is the UK English layout despite ordering with the US English option.

[GT3000]

Glad to hear about the weight and noise. Are they replacing the keyboard? I wonder how much of a pain it is to replace that. Looks like my QHD screen is locked down due to COVID so no word on when build will finish. Lmao.

 

Anything you don't like? How's the heat/audio/is it a fingerprint magnet?

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Performance mode has PL1 set to 70W and PL2 set to 150W. CBR23 17800 with the stock paste job at those limits. I am using some generic DDR4-3200 CL22 memory for now, any suggestions for something better (has to be 32GB kit).

 

Mine is the 140W 3070Ti. Fan noise is better than the X170KM. The weight is fine, great for traveling and lap use despite having a modular CPU. The keyboard does not flex, but mine did arrive with what I think is the UK English layout despite ordering with the US English option.

 

I could work with a PL2 of 150w depending on thermals I could extract about 90% of the performance out of this 12900k. For an average or bad bin, you would be lucky to get ~ 65-70%. With that PL2 limit and cooling, binning would make a major difference. I'm sure single threaded performance should be fine though.

 

Can you do a CB23 and Timespy run with HWmonitor and GPU-Z open to get an idea of CPU and GPU characteristics?

 

 

[GT3000]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

I could work with a PL2 of 150w depending on thermals I could extract about 90% of the performance out of this 12900k. For an average or bad bin, you would be lucky to get ~ 65-70%. With that PL2 limit and cooling, binning would make a major difference. I'm sure single threaded performance should be fine though.

 

Can you do a CB23 and Timespy run with HWmonitor and GPU-Z open to get an idea of CPU and GPU characteristics?

 

 

 

I'm also curious to see how they match up to EC's numbers on their bench.

[win32asmguy]

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

I could work with a PL2 of 150w depending on thermals I could extract about 90% of the performance out of this 12900k. For an average or bad bin, you would be lucky to get ~ 65-70%. With that PL2 limit and cooling, binning would make a major difference. I'm sure single threaded performance should be fine though.

 

Can you do a CB23 and Timespy run with HWmonitor and GPU-Z open to get an idea of CPU and GPU characteristics?

 

 

Here is with throttlestop with PL1 set to 120W. It is higher than I have seen with any 12900hk atleast.

[electrosoft]

14 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

Here is with throttlestop with PL1 set to 120W. It is higher than I have seen with any 12900hk atleast.

 

Yeah that's not bad at all especially compared to most 12900hk's. Temps in the low 90s but that can probably be helped with the standard stuff (bin, delid, better thermal application, check and enhance pairing, undervolt). What does it net single core run?

[win32asmguy]

28 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Yeah that's not bad at all especially compared to most 12900hk's. Temps in the low 90s but that can probably be helped with the standard stuff (bin, delid, better thermal application, check and enhance pairing, undervolt). What does it net single core run?

I did not run the single core test.

 

I noticed rockitcool offers a delid service including their copper IHS for $70, does that seem decent? Is there some way I can tell if my 12900 is a good bin other than installing it in a desktop board with no power or thermal constraints?

[electrosoft]

Looking at Eurocom's site, they offer it with up to a 12900k and up to a 780w PSU so with a more powerful PSU you may be able to extract more performance.

 

You can order it with no storage or WiFi and save a decent chunk of change.

 

-$200 less for the 3060.

 

No option to order it without a CPU.

 

23 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

I did not run the single core test.

 

I noticed rockitcool offers a delid service including their copper IHS for $70, does that seem decent? Is there some way I can tell if my 12900 is a good bin other than installing it in a desktop board with no power or thermal constraints?

 

That's about right if you never plan to delid more than one 12th gen CPU. For myself, I would order the kit and then order IHS's as needed and delid on my own.

 

There is no context to be able to ascertain if your sample is a better sample. You would need to order more of the same and test them on a desktop board or the laptop itself to differentiate between the chips. Will the 12900 run at PL150 or is PL120 where it tops out in draw?

 

What does the power in plug look like on the PSU?

 

 

 

[Clamibot]

12 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

I could work with a PL2 of 150w depending on thermals I could extract about 90% of the performance out of this 12900k. For an average or bad bin, you would be lucky to get ~ 65-70%. With that PL2 limit and cooling, binning would make a major difference. I'm sure single threaded performance should be fine though.

 

Can you do a CB23 and Timespy run with HWmonitor and GPU-Z open to get an idea of CPU and GPU characteristics?

 

 

 

Assuming you only use the performance cores, I think 150-180 watts is enough for 100% p-core performance across all p-cores.

 

@win32asmguy Is there any option in the BIOS to disable the e-cores?

[win32asmguy]

7 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

Assuming you only use the performance cores, I think 150-180 watts is enough for 100% p-core performance across all p-cores.

 

@win32asmguy Is there any option in the BIOS to disable the e-cores?

Yes there is but it is hidden by Clevo. I modified the hidden option and now the cores are not visible in the OS.

 

I tried modifying the hidden MUX option as well but it resulted in a black screen.

 

File_DXE_driver_DriverSampleDxe_SetupUtility IFR.txt

[electrosoft]

4 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Yes there is but it is hidden by Clevo. I modified the hidden option and now the cores are not visible in the OS.

 

I tried modifying the hidden MUX option as well but it resulted in a black screen.

 

File_DXE_driver_DriverSampleDxe_SetupUtility IFR.txt 3.45 MB · 0 downloads

 

If you're able to disable the e-cores maybe do some before and after runs to see if the p-cores clock higher / run cooler with those e-cores disabled.