Official Clevo NH55JNNQ / NH5xJNxx 12th gen Socket 1700 LGA laptop thread

[win32asmguy]

8 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

If you're able to disable the e-cores maybe do some before and after runs to see if the p-cores clock higher / run cooler with those e-cores disabled.

 

 

Actually I was just going to reply, yes I did rerun CBR23, multi score was 16100 after disabling the E-cores, at the same 125W draw. It appears their is some limit imposed at 125W as I have yet to see power draw beyond that even with using Throttlestop, and the Clevo default to 150W PL2. Throttlestop reports it as "EDP OTHER" in the limit reasons panel.

 

The score with E-cores disabled seems low to me, I would expect it to surpass the 11900K much more than that. Although it was only at 125W / 3.8ghz all core clock speeds, so maybe it is accurate.

 

Oh and the power plug is a barrel connector not the the rectangular plug. It is used on quite a few clevo laptops.

[electrosoft]

32 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

Actually I was just going to reply, yes I did rerun CBR23, multi score was 16100 after disabling the E-cores, at the same 125W draw. It appears their is some limit imposed at 125W as I have yet to see power draw beyond that even with using Throttlestop, and the Clevo default to 150W PL2. Throttlestop reports it as "EDP OTHER" in the limit reasons panel.

 

The score with E-cores disabled seems low to me, I would expect it to surpass the 11900K much more than that. Although it was only at 125W / 3.8ghz all core clock speeds, so maybe it is accurate.

 

Oh and the power plug is a barrel connector not the the rectangular plug. It is used on quite a few clevo laptops.

 

I'm glad they went back to the barrel connector. That means any clevo barrel PSU should work. I have a few 330w PSUs sitting around I would try with one to see if the power limits increase at least or how it performs with GPU and CPU under load because 140w 3070ti + 125w CPU definitely exceeds the stock PSU.

 

Your 11900k was able to out muscle it a bit pushing 4.4-4.5+ all core overcoming the IPC deficit. Depending on temps, you can start to create a picture of what you would need to get a 12900k going in there and how far it would go. I think single you will (or should) get up to 4.8+.

 

 

What were the temps like versus with e-cores enabled?

With e-cores enabled, did the P-cores still boost to 3.8 all core or were they lower?

 

If with the e cores enabled or disabled you're topping out at 3.8 on the p-cores then that may be the limit for the non-k 12900 all core.

 

 

[electrosoft]

Since eurocom will spec this up to a 12900k, I wonder if that model has a beefier HS? Or did they scale down the prototype shown before since that model was all copper and the CPU only had a 3 position (tri-fail) securing/pairing system versus the shipping 4 post.

 

This to me would be my ideal order for one. I have numerous AX210's around the abode and I definitely would not want the physical HDD:

 

[Tenoroon]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Since eurocom will spec this up to a 12900k, I wonder if that model has a beefier HS? Or did they scale down the prototype shown before since that model was all copper and the CPU only had a 3 position (tri-fail) securing/pairing system versus the shipping 4 post.

 

This to me would be my ideal order for one. I have numerous AX210's around the abode and I definitely would not want the physical HDD:

 

I don't mean to take this thread off topic, but do you have any AX210's you aren't using? I've been looking into getting a better wireless card for my P870 and would rather have my money go towards a fellow enthusiast than a giant corporation 🙂

[win32asmguy]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

I'm glad they went back to the barrel connector. That means any clevo barrel PSU should work. I have a few 330w PSUs sitting around I would try with one to see if the power limits increase at least or how it performs with GPU and CPU under load because 140w 3070ti + 125w CPU definitely exceeds the stock PSU.

 

Your 11900k was able to out muscle it a bit pushing 4.4-4.5+ all core overcoming the IPC deficit. Depending on temps, you can start to create a picture of what you would need to get a 12900k going in there and how far it would go. I think single you will (or should) get up to 4.8+.

 

 

What were the temps like versus with e-cores enabled?

With e-cores enabled, did the P-cores still boost to 3.8 all core or were they lower?

 

If with the e cores enabled or disabled you're topping out at 3.8 on the p-cores then that may be the limit for the non-k 12900 all core.

 

 

Note that it is the single pin barrel connector, not the 4-pin that was used on models like the P775TM and Tornado F5.

 

So, when I look at HWInfo64 it says the 12900 has a max 7-8c ratio limit of 47x, so there is certainly room for more. I want to get the overclocking lock disabled so I can try undervolting as well. Temps were actually higher with the e-cores disabled. 3.8ghz was with the e-cores disabled.

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Note that it is the single pin barrel connector, not the 4-pin that was used on models like the P775TM and Tornado F5.

 

So, when I look at HWInfo64 it says the 12900 has a max 7-8c ratio limit of 47x, so there is certainly room for more. I want to get the overclocking lock disabled so I can try undervolting as well. Temps were actually higher with the e-cores disabled. 3.8ghz was with the e-cores disabled.

 

Oh so barrel not din. I wonder how a Dell 330w adapter would fair (have those too) since it uses a barrel connector.

 

It should definitely clock up higher. When running CB23 what flags trip? Thermal? Power? Both. According to cpu-monkey (barf) you should be getting ~1988 single, ~26400 multi for CB23. Odd that it wouldn't go past 3.8 even if briefly?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[electrosoft]

8 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

I don't mean to take this thread off topic, but do you have any AX210's you aren't using? I've been looking into getting a better wireless card for my P870 and would rather have my money go towards a fellow enthusiast than a giant corporation 🙂

 

Unfortunately the idea is to replace the wifi cards in the laptops in my sig or I would in a heartbeat, sorry.  They are dirt cheap in eBay right now (~$22USD).

 

 

[win32asmguy]

17 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Oh so barrel not din. I wonder how a Dell 330w adapter would fair (have those too) since it uses a barrel connector.

 

It should definitely clock up higher. When running CB23 what flags trip? Thermal? Power? Both. According to cpu-monkey (barf) you should be getting ~1988 single, ~26400 multi for CB23. Odd that it wouldn't go past 3.8 even if briefly?

I have seen as high as 4.1 at the start of a multicore test. Max power consumption observed is 130W, and it always has EDP OTHER in limit reasons. THERMAL appears as soon as it hits 100C. It can sustain 5.1 single just fine.

 

Still no luck on getting undervolting configurable in Throttlestop even with OcLock/CfgLock disabled and "OverClocking Feature" enabled. Maybe I can try manually specify a voltage offset via those options.

 

No idea if the EC allows it to draw more than the rated 11.8A at 19.5v for the 230W brick. But I would certainly consider a 280W brick if it does not heat up as much as the 230W under load. I have not tested the GPU much so no idea if the EC imposes a lower PL1 if the GPU is under load.

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

I have seen as high as 4.1 at the start of a multicore test. Max power consumption observed is 130W, and it always has EDP OTHER in limit reasons. THERMAL appears as soon as it hits 100C. It can sustain 5.1 single just fine.

 

Still no luck on getting undervolting configurable in Throttlestop even with OcLock/CfgLock disabled and "OverClocking Feature" enabled. Maybe I can try manually specify a voltage offset via those options.

 

No idea if the EC allows it to draw more than the rated 11.8A at 19.5v for the 230W brick. But I would certainly consider a 280W brick if it does not heat up as much as the 230W under load. I have not tested the GPU much so no idea if the EC imposes a lower PL1 if the GPU is under load.

 

Ah, ok, so the focus is to work on the thermal component. This doesn't bode well for a K variant 12900k if it is thermal throttling down to 3.8 but a good, binned 12900k (12900ks and 12900k chips do get the best bins) would most likely perform better clock for clock within the same PL constraints and run cooler.

 

I do know some non k CPUs in the past had problems with multi's and UVs but without testing a K variant in there (even a 12600k) at this point we don't know for sure what is holding it back including manually setting a Vcore. Hopefully you can find a solution because a UV, delid (which has now shown consistently to shave 8-15c off the temps) and new thermal application would give it a nice chunk of thermal breathing room.

 

I really am surprised they shipped a 230w PSU with such a system considering PL1 125w and a 140w 3070ti is well over that spec right out of the gate.

 

I emailed RJtech to see if they're going to offer this model. Waiting to hear back.

 

 

[electrosoft]

23 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

I don't mean to take this thread off topic, but do you have any AX210's you aren't using? I've been looking into getting a better wireless card for my P870 and would rather have my money go towards a fellow enthusiast than a giant corporation 🙂

 

I was looking through my parts to see if I had any other extra AX210's for you (I did not sorry) but I found a brand new AX200 if that is an upgrade for you (or if you don't have a wifi card at all). Let me know and I'll drop it in the mail for you this week.

 

 

[jaybee83]

very awesome topic guys, thanks for all the info already posted here! actually looking at this machine as a replacement for my gf's trusty old Dell Vostro from 11 years ago (yikes, ikr! but hey, this is after multiple hardware upgrades, gotta love socketed laptop parts 😁)

 

ive been wondering about the K cpu compatibility here, seems like they are a go if Eurocom's listing is to be believed. would also be very curious to see if there is a way forward in terms of potential upgradeabiliy to Raptor Lake. That'll of course depend on Clevo's willingness to provide BIOS updated an/or inofficial community support 😅

[Tenoroon]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

I was looking through my parts to see if I had any other extra AX210's for you (I did not sorry) but I found a brand new AX200 if that is an upgrade for you (or if you don't have a wifi card at all). Let me know and I'll drop it in the mail for you this week.

 

 

I just bought an AX210 a few hours ago lol, bad timing I guess!

I do appreciate it though!

[win32asmguy]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Ah, ok, so the focus is to work on the thermal component. This doesn't bode well for a K variant 12900k if it is thermal throttling down to 3.8 but a good, binned 12900k (12900ks and 12900k chips do get the best bins) would most likely perform better clock for clock within the same PL constraints and run cooler.

 

I do know some non k CPUs in the past had problems with multi's and UVs but without testing a K variant in there (even a 12600k) at this point we don't know for sure what is holding it back including manually setting a Vcore. Hopefully you can find a solution because a UV, delid (which has now shown consistently to shave 8-15c off the temps) and new thermal application would give it a nice chunk of thermal breathing room.

 

I really am surprised they shipped a 230w PSU with such a system considering PL1 125w and a 140w 3070ti is well over that spec right out of the gate.

 

I emailed RJtech to see if they're going to offer this model. Waiting to hear back.

 

 

I am starting to think the non k 12900 cannot undervolt. I tried configuring an all core and per-core undervolt via the hidden bios options and nothing would take effect.

 

I have not seen total system power to exceed 235W. The GPU just stays at 115W and the CPU at 120W. I have not really seen the GPU go up to 140W either.

 

RJTech will only offer it if Sager does as well. Eluktronics might pick it up as well.

[jaybee83]

8 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

I am starting to think the non k 12900 cannot undervolt. I tried configuring an all core and per-core undervolt via the hidden bios options and nothing would take effect.

 

I have not seen total system power to exceed 235W. The GPU just stays at 115W and the CPU at 120W. I have not really seen the GPU go up to 140W either.

 

RJTech will only offer it if Sager does as well. Eluktronics might pick it up as well.

agree with the others here that we definitely need a K sku to compare this with. really wanna know if UV would work with a K cpu. also check and see if a higher wattage psu would alleviate the wattage limit the system is showing or if this is smth that the board / EC is responsible for...

 

in any case, thx so far for all the super valuable info here win32asmguy, really appreciate it 🙂 

 

edit: alrighty, i have several questions from my side, hope you'll be in the mood for checking 😁

 

- does the machine support xmp profiles or just JEDEC ram sticks? 

- gpu core / vram over/underclocking?

- what kind of options does the clevo control center (or current namesake) offer for hardware adjustments?

- does intel xtu work? i know TS is preferred, but sometimes xtu offers more adjustment options than TS

- with everything tuned down to the max (cpu locked to lowest multi, gpu downclocked and idle, min screen brightness, etc), what kinda battery life are you looking at approx?

 

thanks in advance! 😊

[electrosoft]

17 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

I am starting to think the non k 12900 cannot undervolt. I tried configuring an all core and per-core undervolt via the hidden bios options and nothing would take effect.

 

I have not seen total system power to exceed 235W. The GPU just stays at 115W and the CPU at 120W. I have not really seen the GPU go up to 140W either.

 

RJTech will only offer it if Sager does as well. Eluktronics might pick it up as well.

 

Yep, the only way to validate this is to install a K sku at this point.

 

It may be the board power draw is capped around ~235w due to the PSU in use. Best case, 280w+ PSU will increase power limits and draw. Worst case, your PSU will run much cooler and last longer.

 

Thanks again for being the initial guinea pig on this new model.

 

16 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

agree with the others here that we definitely need a K sku to compare this with. really wanna know if UV would work with a K cpu. also check and see if a higher wattage psu would alleviate the wattage limit the system is showing or if this is smth that the board / EC is responsible for...

 

in any case, thx so far for all the super valuable info here win32asmguy, really appreciate it 🙂 

 

edit: alrighty, i have several questions from my side, hope you'll be in the mood for checking 😁

 

- does the machine support xmp profiles or just JEDEC ram sticks? 

- gpu core / vram over/underclocking?

- what kind of options does the clevo control center (or current namesake) offer for hardware adjustments?

- does intel xtu work? i know TS is preferred, but sometimes xtu offers more adjustment options than TS

- with everything tuned down to the max (cpu locked to lowest multi, gpu downclocked and idle, min screen brightness, etc), what kinda battery life are you looking at approx?

 

thanks in advance! 😊

 

Awesome follow up questions!

 

 

 

[electrosoft]

Just heard back from RJtech and they won't be carrying it. Ah well.

 

 

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Just heard back from RJtech and they won't be carrying it. Ah well.

 

 

BGA soldered crap FTW! tend to the masses! 😅 im eyeing PCSpecialist here in the EU to get the machine for my gf.

[win32asmguy]

Ok I purchased a 12900k and just swapped it out.

 

Undervolting is now possible via Throttlestop. Out of the box this 12900k scores 17000 instead of 16000 (just p-cores active again). Close to 18000 with a -75mv undervolt, 4.4 to 4.2 on all cores still 120W draw.

 

Now I have to decide if I am going to try and have a awkward conversation with Eurocom to see if they will exchange for a different CPU as the one I purchased cannot undervolt.

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

Ok I purchased a 12900k and just swapped it out.

 

Undervolting is now possible via Throttlestop. Out of the box this 12900k scores 17000 instead of 16000 (just p-cores active again). Close to 18000 with a -75mv undervolt, 4.4 to 4.2 on all cores still 120W draw.

 

Now I have to decide if I am going to try and have a awkward conversation with Eurocom to see if they will exchange for a different CPU as the one I purchased cannot undervolt.

dude, youre a rock star! so that suggests that going the K route still has advantages even though we are thermally and TDP limited in this chassis, nice! what do the scores look like with E cores enabled?

looks like ill have to check with PCS if theyre willing to ship our unit with either a 12700K or 12900K 😛 in their configurator they only offer non-K skus... really too bad they dont offer barebones, but lets see, never hurts to ask 😉

 

edit: ok i checked with PCS on RAM compatibility, K CPU availability, Screen options and possibility to purchase the system as a barebone. lets see what they have to say, will keep you guys posted 🙂 

also checked with brother Prema, seems like PCS is the only Clevo licensed shop in the EU that offers the 3070 Ti model.

[GT3000]

GL on the swap/return of the CPU.

[win32asmguy]

23 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

edit: alrighty, i have several questions from my side, hope you'll be in the mood for checking 😁

 

- does the machine support xmp profiles or just JEDEC ram sticks? 

- gpu core / vram over/underclocking?

- what kind of options does the clevo control center (or current namesake) offer for hardware adjustments?

- does intel xtu work? i know TS is preferred, but sometimes xtu offers more adjustment options than TS

- with everything tuned down to the max (cpu locked to lowest multi, gpu downclocked and idle, min screen brightness, etc), what kinda battery life are you looking at approx?

 

thanks in advance! 😊

- XMP: The bios has hidden options allowing a custom profile or XMP profiles to be selected. I did try setting a custom profile but I got the ratio/speed incorrect so it could not boot. XMP should be more forgiving.

- Gpu overclocking: It has the GPU Performance Scaling option in the bios so maybe.

- Clevo Control Center: I have not installed it

- XTU: Yes it works but P-core undervolting was grayed out. TS was perfectly happy to apply an undervolt with the same bios configuration so maybe XTU sees the "H670" chipset and disables stuff in its UI

- Battery Life: I did not specifically lock things down to lowest multipliers, but on a clean boot with the 3070Ti not in use I saw about 18W idle power draw. So maybe 2-3 hours.

 

1 hour ago, jaybee83 said:

dude, youre a rock star! so that suggests that going the K route still has advantages even though we are thermally and TDP limited in this chassis, nice! what do the scores look like with E cores enabled?

looks like ill have to check with PCS if theyre willing to ship our unit with either a 12700K or 12900K 😛 in their configurator they only offer non-K skus... really too bad they dont offer barebones, but lets see, never hurts to ask 😉

 

edit: ok i checked with PCS on RAM compatibility, K CPU availability, Screen options and possibility to purchase the system as a barebone. lets see what they have to say, will keep you guys posted 🙂 

also checked with brother Prema, seems like PCS is the only Clevo licensed shop in the EU that offers the 3070 Ti model.

I think a good bin K series, delidded, is a must if you want the most out of what this chassis can give. I have not tried with the e-cores enabled yet.

[jaybee83]

11 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

- XMP: The bios has hidden options allowing a custom profile or XMP profiles to be selected. I did try setting a custom profile but I got the ratio/speed incorrect so it could not boot. XMP should be more forgiving.

- Gpu overclocking: It has the GPU Performance Scaling option in the bios so maybe.

- Clevo Control Center: I have not installed it

- XTU: Yes it works but P-core undervolting was grayed out. TS was perfectly happy to apply an undervolt with the same bios configuration so maybe XTU sees the "H670" chipset and disables stuff in its UI

- Battery Life: I did not specifically lock things down to lowest multipliers, but on a clean boot with the 3070Ti not in use I saw about 18W idle power draw. So maybe 2-3 hours.

 

I think a good bin K series, delidded, is a must if you want the most out of what this chassis can give. I have not tried with the e-cores enabled yet.

very good info my man 😁

- the fact the machine did not boot is a good sign, means that the ram settings actually do something. but at the same time it also means that the settings are hidden at stock. is it possible in xtu to set ram clocks and timings?

- check and see if u can do anything with afterburner or precisionx when gpu oc is enabled in bios

- good to see that at least TS allows UV. but as mentioned above, xtu might allow us to access ram tweaking?

- kool, definitely some tweaking room left there!

- whats the behaviour now with e cores disabled vs. enabled? u mentioned before u weirdly get higher temps and lower scores with e cores disabled.

 

absolutely agree on the binning, delidding, proper cooling part of the cpu. the cooler the better to be able and reach lower voltages and thus higher clocks 🙂

[electrosoft]

21 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

BGA soldered crap FTW! tend to the masses! 😅 im eyeing PCSpecialist here in the EU to get the machine for my gf.

 

Yeah, if needed I can order one from Eurocom or wait for a used one to pop up somewhere.

[electrosoft]

20 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Ok I purchased a 12900k and just swapped it out.

 

Undervolting is now possible via Throttlestop. Out of the box this 12900k scores 17000 instead of 16000 (just p-cores active again). Close to 18000 with a -75mv undervolt, 4.4 to 4.2 on all cores still 120W draw.

 

Now I have to decide if I am going to try and have a awkward conversation with Eurocom to see if they will exchange for a different CPU as the one I purchased cannot undervolt.

 

 

Well another theory comfirmed with the non-k sku. I had a feeling that was the problem because I've encountered it in the past with non-k sku's on the desktop.

 

I'm curious about the 150w PL limit since it seems stuck on 120w but if you're thermal throttling at this point it really is a battle for another day. Getting 120w thermals under control are paramount.

 

Did you ask Eurocom is this the only heatsink available (IE was the one originally pictured just a prototype and this is the final, only model)? Hopefully like all previous Clevo's aftermarket beefier HSs will show up on Aliexpress.

 

16 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

- XMP: The bios has hidden options allowing a custom profile or XMP profiles to be selected. I did try setting a custom profile but I got the ratio/speed incorrect so it could not boot. XMP should be more forgiving.

- Gpu overclocking: It has the GPU Performance Scaling option in the bios so maybe.

- Clevo Control Center: I have not installed it

- XTU: Yes it works but P-core undervolting was grayed out. TS was perfectly happy to apply an undervolt with the same bios configuration so maybe XTU sees the "H670" chipset and disables stuff in its UI

- Battery Life: I did not specifically lock things down to lowest multipliers, but on a clean boot with the 3070Ti not in use I saw about 18W idle power draw. So maybe 2-3 hours.

 

I think a good bin K series, delidded, is a must if you want the most out of what this chassis can give. I have not tried with the e-cores enabled yet.

 

That is good XMP or custom is available which means memory can be fine tuned. That's another win. Can you post a few screen shots?

 

Clevo Control Center usually gives you a degree of CPU control on its own and many options can be fixed to BIOS and uninstalled and persist including UVs depending on BIOS flexibility. Never hurts to give it a whirl.

 

I know in the past on some models if the chipset was a lower or non OC model XTU would limit options and we would use TS to overcome it but like you found out even TS can't overcome a bit locked non-k sku chip.

 

The good thing is you are getting full single (and few) core turbo. The bad is now it's time to maximize thermals, get them under control and then see about that 150w PL and what a better PSU can do.

 

Thanks so much for basically being the eyes and ears for exploring this model and actually picking up a 12900k to try and answer more questions. It is greatly appreciated!

 

 

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Well another theory comfirmed with the non-k sku. I had a feeling that was the problem because I've encountered it in the past with non-k sku's on the desktop.

 

I'm curious about the 150w PL limit since it seems stuck on 120w but if you're thermal throttling at this point it really is a battle for another day. Getting 120w thermals under control are paramount.

 

Did you ask Eurocom is this the only heatsink available (IE was the one originally pictured just a prototype and this is the final, only model)? Hopefully like all previous Clevo's aftermarket beefier HSs will show up on Aliexpress.

 

 

That is good XMP or custom is available which means memory can be fine tuned. That's another win. Can you post a few screen shots?

 

Clevo Control Center usually gives you a degree of CPU control on its own and many options can be fixed to BIOS and uninstalled and persist including UVs depending on BIOS flexibility. Never hurts to give it a whirl.

 

I know in the past on some models if the chipset was a lower or non OC model XTU would limit options and we would use TS to overcome it but like you found out even TS can't overcome a bit locked non-k sku chip.

 

The good thing is you are getting full single (and few) core turbo. The bad is now it's time to maximize thermals, get them under control and then see about that 150w PL and what a better PSU can do.

 

Thanks so much for basically being the eyes and ears for exploring this model and actually picking up a 12900k to try and answer more questions. It is greatly appreciated!

Eurocom told me that there is only one heatsink for all models. They also told me that the MUX may have been disabled after the manual was created. I am still hoping the chip is present on the system board and maybe a future bios update will fix it.

 

They gave me a Control Center version 3.70 on a thumb drive with the rest of the Windows 10 drivers so I will try it.

 

So with the e-cores enabled any undervolt seems to be causing an immediate crash. Does Core/Pcache/Ecache need to be adjusted in unison? Or is there some other trick I am missing. I know you mentioned Load Line Calibration before as well, I have not looked into that.