Dell Precision 7670 & Dell Precision 7770 owner's thread

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, FlashWolf said:

Good Day my fellow Dell precision 7*70 mates,

 

First i want to thank you all for your efforts, you really help us alot with your research about this laptop generation.

 

 

So, my Dell precision 7670 has the same problems as yours, thermal throttling and about 15,5k points in cinebench r23.

i already did the loadline and resizeable bar fix in efi and added arctis mx4 thermal paste. the temps are horrendous also after that modifications^^ the temps are maxing out at 107° in idle 😅

 

now i try to undervolt the cpu but somehow if i unlock the voltage for the cpu p cache and add for example -2 mv it instantly keeps crashing. somehow it looks like my cpu does not like undervolting of the cpu p cache at all? 

whereas the cpu core allows me an undervolt of -160mv and e cache about -30mv.

 

is this a problem related to my windows or do i have a bad sample of cpu?

 

here are my specs:

 

i9 12950HX

RTX A2000 8GB

64GB CAMM

16" 500nits Display

2TB Samsung Pro 980

 

thanks in advance, 

 

If you already repasted then something is very much not right with 100+ degrees idle so in my opinion you should return it. You may ask for a refund, a replacement or you could go for maximum savings and get one of these:

https://tinyurl.com/7670-outlet

 

 

[pintie]

thanks for the help with the tweaks...

 

i did the loadline cal. and used

-125mV on the main core with IccMax 255.75

-75mV on P cache with IccMax 255.75
-75mV on E cache

all cores 5.0 GHz

 

did a repaste with MX4

 

The CPU max is 109 Watts, Temps still 100°C when benching. (using the cold profile in Dell software)

 

i'am at 18650 in Cinebench now (6min). still not where it could be with a proper cooling, but ok for now.

 

again thanks to all the nerds that try to tweak everything insted of having a life 😁

 

[Aaron44126]

2 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

you do not need to undervolt anything else beside these two variables,

on my CPU i was able to achieve -165mV on CPU Core and -150.4mV on CPU P Cache,
do not try to jump to these values each CPU bin is individual!

 

I haven't had time to look at this at all so I will ask you;

Do you know how to code these voltage changes into the BIOS (setup_var) so that you don't have to use ThrottleStop to activate them?  (This will be required to use undervolting + virtualization features at the same time.)

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, pintie said:

thanks for the help with the tweaks...

 

i did the loadline cal. and used

-125mV on the main core with IccMax 255.75

-75mV on P cache with IccMax 255.75
-75mV on E cache

all cores 5.0 GHz

 

did a repaste with MX4

 

The CPU max is 109 Watts, Temps still 100°C when benching. (using the cold profile in Dell software)

 

i'am at 18650 in Cinebench now (6min). still not where it could be with a proper cooling, but ok for now.

 

again thanks to all the nerds that try to tweak everything insted of having a life 😁

 

 

That is a big improvement! Any reason why you are running Cinebench for 6 instead of 10 minutes?

[pintie]

9 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

 

That is a big improvement! Any reason why you are running Cinebench for 6 instead of 10 minutes?

no time 🙂   tried it now with the dell optimal profile 2 times 10 min. Ambient is 19°C.

16800 and 17500.   

 

If someone would sell a better aftermarket cooler - i would buy it 🙂

i will 3d print a stand and put a 14cm fan under it. but that is not going to solve anything.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

5 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

I haven't had time to look at this at all so I will ask you

i gave it a try at the time i was not able to find all desired variables, i wasn't fully set on my underclock setting so i didn't insist on making these work from the bios directly at the time, 

i believe these can be set in bios just need to locate and verify their variables,

(i couldn't find ring down "Voltage Mode" to set it to minus before setting a value on ring down which is variable for P-Cache)

 

setup_var CpuSetup 0x1E8     # Ring Down Bin (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x263     # GT Voltage Mode (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x266     # Offset Prefix (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x26C     # GT Voltage Mode (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x26F     # Offset Prefix (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x2DE     # Uncore Voltage Mode (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x261     # Offset Prefix (Default 0x0)

 

@Aaron44126
here you go i think i fond the missing link

setup_var CpuSetup 0x1E9     # Ring Voltage Mode (Default 0x0)

 

here are few more variables that can be set
setup_var CpuSetup 0x2E3     # Thermal Velocity Boost (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x2E4     # TVB Voltage Optimizations (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x378     # Enhanced Thermal Velocity Boost (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x7         # Expected CPU Freq (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x2AF     # E-core L2 Voltage Mode (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x2B4     # Offset Prefix (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x27C     # VF Offset Mode (Default 0x0)
setup_var CpuSetup 0x1EE     # Offset Prefix (Default 0x0)

 

here is a binary converter,
 

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, pintie said:

no time 🙂   tried it now with the dell optimal profile 2 times 10 min. Ambient is 19°C.

16800 and 17500.   

 

If someone would sell a better aftermarket cooler - i would buy it 🙂

i will 3d print a stand and put a 14cm fan under it. but that is not going to solve anything.

 

Hehe, good reason and thanks for the numbers 😄

 

If you get this one and some kind of rubber feet you will not even need a stand when you do not type on the laptop when at home:

 

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a20-pwm-chromax-black-swap

 

There is also a 5V version that could probably be regulated with a fan controller but I used this one and it runs at its slowest setting here at 5 instead of 12V and my 7760 sits on it. Really brought down the SSD temps that now are mostly between 25 and 40 degrees.

 

 

 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

8 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

brought down the SSD temps

fyi ssd's are happier at 54c idle and up, they tend to be nonresponsive when cold,

they require heat buildup for proper operation,

[ATAN]

12 hours ago, FlashWolf said:

Good Day my fellow Dell precision 7*70 mates,

 

First i want to thank you all for your efforts, you really help us alot with your research about this laptop generation.

 

 

So, my Dell precision 7670 has the same problems as yours, thermal throttling and about 15,5k points in cinebench r23.

i already did the loadline and resizeable bar fix in efi and added arctis mx4 thermal paste. the temps are horrendous also after that modifications^^ the temps are maxing out at 107° in idle 😅

 

now i try to undervolt the cpu but somehow if i unlock the voltage for the cpu p cache and add for example -2 mv it instantly keeps crashing. somehow it looks like my cpu does not like undervolting of the cpu p cache at all? 

whereas the cpu core allows me an undervolt of -160mv and e cache about -30mv.

 

is this a problem related to my windows or do i have a bad sample of cpu?

 

here are my specs:

 

i9 12950HX

RTX A2000 8GB

64GB CAMM

16" 500nits Display

2TB Samsung Pro 980

 

thanks in advance, 

You definitely have some wiggle room, I'm getting 15.2k back to back runs on just my p cores. 18k without much tweaking/tuning with the ecores, prolly could get 21/22k first run only now. Cache undervolting is the main gain source for my system. Stock vs -125 I go from 13.8k to 15.2k(can't stable -140), my core is only -140, it can do -190 if kept under 75c.

 

On another note I kinda want the new 7900xtx more than this 7770(i like it and im still looking towards mods or if i keep it just adding more copper with a heatsink swap to the gpu version), if i return the 7770 I could build a smaller zen 4 system with new gpu or get a gpd winmax 2 in addition to the new GPU for $1000 + Tax with a hundred to spare. Desicions

[ATAN]

Have any of you with a higher tier gpu sku tried disabling your dgpu for more cpu headroom?
Just asking as I look at these other heatsinks on ebay.
 

[Aaron44126]

35 minutes ago, ATAN said:

Have any of you with a higher tier gpu sku tried disabling your dgpu for more cpu headroom?
Just asking as I look at these other heatsinks on ebay.

My Cinebench runs have been with graphics switching on / dGPU powered off.  (That’s the default configuration…)

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

fyi ssd's are happier at 54c idle and up, they tend to be nonresponsive when cold,

they require heat buildup for proper operation,

Not really my experience with benchmarks and in real life use but then these SSDs do not stay below 30 when not idling, in use they are usually closer to 40 and with heavier use they can go up to about the mid to high 50s.

[ATAN]

2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

My Cinebench runs have been with graphics switching on / dGPU powered off.  (That’s the default configuration…)

I see i see, nvidia profucts arent anythinf ive paid alof od attention to. Its been about two upgrade since i was support to alternate and trt nvidia, i couldnt stomach their practices.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

4 hours ago, ATAN said:

any of you with a higher tier gpu sku tried disabling your dgpu for more cpu headroom?

there's is no higher mobile sku than the 12950hx atm 

[pintie]

12 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a20-pwm-chromax-black-swap

There is also a 5V version

yeah, the 5V Version is a perfect USB fan.

 

i have a box of these... they go down to 400rpm and are also extrem quiet.

https://noctua.at/en/nf-a14-industrialppc-2000-ip67-pwm

 

but the 20cm is a good idea...

[1610ftw]

3 minutes ago, pintie said:

yeah, the 5V Version is a perfect USB fan.

 

i have a box of these... they go down to 400rpm and are also extrem quiet.

https://noctua.at/en/nf-a14-industrialppc-2000-ip67-pwm

 

but the 20cm is a good idea...

 

If you print a stand anyway you could make it wide enough to fit two of these in between, after all they should only come out to 28cm wide. Main reason I went with the 20 cm version is that it also doubles as a stand - works well with the Clevo X170 and the 7760.

[1610ftw]

Some new youtube videos about the 7770 directly and indirectly.

 

praise:

 

 

not so much praise plus a link of a productivity benchmark only dominated by gaming laptops:

I guess you could say that MSI has a workstation with gaming laptop performance but then it is really a gaming laptop with some added certification for workstation use.

 

Also interesting to see that again Asus comes out on top in that benchmark - they seem to have nailed their cooling for this generation.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

  

2 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

not so much praise plus a link of a productivity benchmark only dominated by gaming laptops

spot on!
a gaming laptop that can boost a 30min loop on CB23 with a 26k score while our premium workstations can barely scratch half that score, that is aggravating and insulting that Dell has the goal to think they can get away with 50% castration on their expensive premium flagship workstation because we (used to) blindly trust them to always be the best, 

 

2 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

Asus comes out on top

for general information all top 100 results on 3DMARK for the 12950HX & 3080 Ti combo we compete against are from less than a handful of users all running the same ASUS Scar 17 SE with the above basic specs, this unit comes from factory with a vapor chamber backed up by two fans, we cannot pull result beyond top 100 on 3DMARK i suspect the same handful of users logged up thousands of results as they appear to be competing with each other posting improved result, throwing off average scores for our machine class, what it does prove though beyond a shadow of a doubt (despite both CPU and GPU on that unit come with LM TIM from factory) is that proper taming of the beast is possible for this hardware level it just takes a proper vapor chamber like the one shown in the video below,

 

 

[1610ftw]

8 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

  

spot on!
a gaming laptop that can boost a 30min loop on CB23 with a 26k score while our premium workstations can barely scratch half that score, that is aggravating and insulting that Dell has the goal to think they can get away with 50% castration on their expensive premium flagship workstation because we (used to) blindly trust them to always be the best, 

 

for general information all top 100 results on 3DMARK for the 12950HX & 3080 Ti combo we compete against are from less than a handful of users all running the same ASUS Scar 17 SE with the above basic specs, this unit comes from factory with a vapor chamber backed up by two fans, we cannot pull result beyond top 100 on 3DMARK i suspect the same handful of users logged up thousands of results as they appear to be competing with each other posting improved result, throwing off average scores for our machine class, what it does prove though beyond a shadow of a doubt (despite both CPU and GPU on that unit come with LM TIM from factory) is that proper taming of the beast is possible for this hardware level it just takes a proper vapor chamber like the one shown in the video below,

 

 

 

To be fair I got a CB score of 26481 but only in a single run, 10 minute runs have been less great at ca. 21.5K. it is possible that liquid metal or better paste would have helped but that GT77 was returned and the seal wasn't broken.

 

Best for a 10 minute run seem to be the 23K that have been posted by Jarrod's tech for the Asus.

 

As far as 3DMark is concerned it seems that a wide variety of models achieve quite spectacular scores including a Lenovo and at least three MSI models, but they all have the 12900HX with identical performance specs. If you go for the leaderboard view it also declutters results a lot as only the best run from each user will be shown:

 

 

The scores are so high that I can only assume that these guys somehow get around power limits as in my testing I found the GT77 to be severely power limited with temps hardly reaching 60 degrees and I assume that this would also go for other models from both MSI and other manufacturers.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

  

6 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

I found the GT77 to be severely power limited

that system has a heat pipe design not a vapor chamber hence the differences,

 

6 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

The scores are so high that I can only assume that these guys somehow get around power limits

they don't need to, with a solid vapor chamber the unit is able to maintain higher clocks its that simple,

if you research you will see some show 60c constant temps during their tests which suggest heavy regulated cold environment, I've seen enterprise data center drivers in use in conjunction with these high scores,
our platform is so far off there's no point in comparing,

i also got 26k score on CB23 but it wasn't easy and it was for a single run,
on a 30min loop i got 19k and again it wasn't simple to get there,
the system had to be heavily manipulated first,

that Asus shown tested unmodified and healed 26k score after 30 min loop,
that's HUGE 40% performance losses for workstation class,
when did it became ok that a workstation plays second fiddle to gaming station? 

[win32asmguy]

2 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

they don't need to, with a solid vapor chamber the unit is able to maintain higher clocks its that simple,

if you research you will see some show 60c constant temps during their tests which suggest heavy regulated cold environment, I've seen enterprise data center drivers in use in conjunction with these high scores,
our platform is so far off there's no point in comparing,

 

I would have been happy if they used a design similar to the 7760 but with side vents and additional heatpipes so it could utilize a 330W brick with 157W+ CPU TDP, 175W GPU TDP or combined 250W CPU+GPU. Even if it has to grow in size to support it. If people want thin and light, choose the 7670, 5770, 5570, 5470. There is no reason to castrate the 7770 at its asking price if it is still reasonably portable. In the past people somehow managed to carry around machines like the M6800 despite it being larger and heavier.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

its not like we are asking for something in the sky,
their alienware line all run with a 330 bricks with proper thermals,
its just handful of greedy pissant marketing executives thinking they outsmart us all,

to them we are clearly too stupid to notice or know the difference,

 

this is no longer Dells flagship its Dell's compromise ship.

[1610ftw]

15 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

they don't need to, with a solid vapor chamber the unit is able to maintain higher clocks its that simple,

if you research you will see some show 60c constant temps during their tests which suggest heavy regulated cold environment, I've seen enterprise data center drivers in use in conjunction with these high scores,
our platform is so far off there's no point in comparing,

i also got 26k score on CB23 but it wasn't easy and it was for a single run,
on a 30min loop i got 19k and again it wasn't simple to get there,
the system had to be heavily manipulated first,

that Asus shown tested unmodified and healed 26k score after 30 min loop,
that's HUGE 40% performance losses for workstation class,
when did it became ok that a workstation plays second fiddle to gaming station? 

 

Temperatures are not the only issue, at some point you will need more power. There is no way that you can post those combined CPU and GPU scores with a sub 250W power limit - it is simple physics.

 

As for the Asus he is only showing that the Asus is giving him 23.4K, not 26 - that is a big difference:

 

 

And here he explains that the benchmark is not really one single run of 30 minutes but three runs of 10 minutes each averaged:

• Multi core scores are 3x 10 minute runs averaged together and represent a worst case after CPU boost periods expire. Higher scores are possible if you just run one single test.

. Would be interesting to know how long he pauses between these runs as this will affect results.

 

https://jarrods.tech/laptop-cpu-performance-in-cinebench-r23/

 

As for a workstation playing second fiddle to a gaming laptop wasn't that always the case? The only really powerful workstations that I know about were actually gaming laptops with little to no changes to their gaming version from the likes of mainly Clevo and MSI. From what I know they were always more powerful than Dell, HP and Lenovo workstations from their generation and up to a point that is fine as one gains other qualities.  Only now people are getting upset as the gap gets so much bigger in this generation and this is made even worse by the fact that at the same time the performance gap between even the best laptop and the best desktop is getting bigger, too. 

 

 

 

 

[1610ftw]

4 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

its not like we are asking for something in the sky,
their alienware line all run with a 330 bricks with proper thermals,
its just handful of greedy pissant marketing executives thinking they outsmart us all,

to them we are clearly too stupid to notice or know the difference,

 

this is no longer Dells flagship its Dell's compromise ship.

 

It is the ship that hisses the white flag when it sees a benchmark on the horizon 😄

 

Kidding aside I would not be surprised if Dell is working on improving things on their side and in the end no manufacturer owes us anything and it is upon us to vote with our wallet.  Last year my wallet voted for the 7760 but it is very unlikely that I will vote for the 7770 this year.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

55 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

Temperatures are not the only issue, at some point you will need more power

100%

 

55 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

he is only showing that the Asus is giving him 23.4K, not 26

true, hmm... where did i pull 26k number from 

 

55 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

here he explains that the benchmark is not really one single run of 30 minutes but three runs of 10 minutes

i missed that bit completely in his video, i just read off the image he posted there,

 

55 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

As for a workstation playing second fiddle to a gaming laptop wasn't that always the case?

in a way gaming always had an edge or bit gap over workstations usually representing bleeding edge technology not fully suited to deploy on workstations (yet), but it was never this significant where a gaming station puts to shame a flagship workstation from one of the top manufacturers, come to show how much marketing taking precedence over engineering priorities now days, which is exactly what has changed the past 10-15 years with Dell,