Dell Precision 7670 & Dell Precision 7770 owner's thread

[MyPC8MyBrain]

this is just painful to see, buy the 7770 from dell online outlet store for $2,409.00,
or buy the exact same config for 220% more (or 55% less) from dell online store for $5,336.04,

[RYANKO]

Hello~

 

First post on this forum. Learned much(thanks for all the useful info and discussion) from here and would like to share my benchmark results.

 

Coming from almost 8 years Macbook and finally back to native Wintel laptop.

My Specs:

DELL 7770

i7 12850HX

RTX A4500 16GB

64GB SODIMM 

17.3" UHD Display

Win11 Pro

***Delta Fans***

 

Stock(Single run:):16489

 

After IA AC/DC LoadLine fix(Single run)(apply to all rest results):17185

I did try various LoadLine values but not found much to share.

 

After Honeywell PTM7950 repaste(first time doing this, not sure I'm doing fine or not)(apply to rest results):

After repaste, the core may still reach 100C and some orignially hot P cores remain hotter than others. 

 

with Throttle Stop applied:

 

Single run:23107

 

Add coolingpad for further discover the potential(apply to rest results):

Single run:23599

 

10mins:18975

 

30mins:18385

 

Geekbench:1509/15125

 

3DMark Time Spy : 11403

 

without Throttle Stop

Single run:23206

 

10mins:20207

 

30mins:20034

 

Geekbench:1626/15496

 

3DMark:11409

 

As a result, my experience with Throttle Stop helps to boost R23 single run result a little bit further but fails to improve others. Don't know why.

 

Some notes:

1. As others finding, the benchmark is not as high as other gaming laptops.

2. IA AC/DC LoadLine fix helps to improve overall performance.

3. Repaste may help long term performance.

4. According to other's finding, replace Delta fan with Sunon fan may or may not help the overall performance. So I'm a little bit lazy for the exchange experiment.

5. I can't find a good Throttle Stop setting to improve overall long term performance. In addition, with TS applied, my 3DMark often BSOD during benchmarking which is not acceptable.

6. A beast cooling pad do help reduce overall temperature and imporve benchmark result with the cost of loud noise.

7. For proper dGPU performance, dell power manager has to set to high performance mode. For CPU only benchmark or application, cool mode may help a little bit further.

8. The fan seems not rotating at all during idle or light load which is quite quiet. Sometimes it may burst for short load and I'm okay with the sound.

9. The stock WIFI driver seems have some bugs. After updating to latest driver seems fixed.

10.  It's a shame there is no single perfect laptop which covers for both highest CPU/Graphic performance and long term warranty/service/reputation/etc. People have to decide the priority between the absolute best performance or services. Just a little bit dissapointed DELL could do better with the asking price.

 

 

 

 

[1610ftw]

Nice results, are all the 10 and 30 minute runs done with the cooling pad?

 

[RYANKO]

11 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

Nice results, are all the 10 and 30 minute runs done with the cooling pad?

 

Yes, they are.

I was in a hurry to install the working software and get back into real work.

So I only did the benchmark with cooling pad before that.

The funny thing is I don't game at all, just out of curiosity to see how the combination can achieve.

For non-gaming / non-continuous high load scenario I think the in-chassis heatsink is barely enough. 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

need some help guys!
i have opened a thread on TechPowerUp  where UncleWebb has chimed in (Unclewebb is the author of ThrottleStop),
i have explained some issues i was experiencing undervolting the 12950hx, in particular the issue of crashing when just enabling P-Cache undervolt feature without even undervolting, just enabling the feature will crash the 12950hx, unfortunelty i do not have my replacement system in hand yet, he will need some feedback from us with newer CPU's to help improve ThrottleStop for 12'th and 13'th gen CPU's,
please chime in here to help speed ThrottleStop support for our CPU's
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-p-e-core-support.300650/

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

need some help guys!
i have opened a thread on TechPowerUp  where UncleWebb has chimed in (Unclewebb is the author of ThrottleStop),
i have explained some issues i was experiencing undervolting the 12950hx, in particular the issue of crashing when just enabling P-Cache undervolt feature without even undervolting, just enabling the feature will crash the 12950hx, unfortunelty i do not have my replacement system in hand yet, he will need some feedback from us with newer CPU's to help improve ThrottleStop for 12'th and 13'th gen CPU's,
please chime in here to help speed ThrottleStop support for our CPU's
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-p-e-core-support.300650/

 

Unfortunately the GT77 I had is gone again but I also had massive issues with p-cache. It crashed even at minus 50 mV at which point I decided that even less undervolting wasn't worth it as it would not help much to lower temps or power consumption. I doubt however that it was because of throttlestop as p-cache settings also caused crashes in Intel XTU.

 

Where does Unclewebb live? We should somehow get something to him so that he can check out one of the newer systems for himself.

[Aaron44126]

Sidebar —

Unclewebb used to visit and post on NBR, if you refer him over here I wonder if he would make an account now that the site is reasonably active...

[RYANKO]

9 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

need some help guys!
i have opened a thread on TechPowerUp  where UncleWebb has chimed in (Unclewebb is the author of ThrottleStop),
i have explained some issues i was experiencing undervolting the 12950hx, in particular the issue of crashing when just enabling P-Cache undervolt feature without even undervolting, just enabling the feature will crash the 12950hx, unfortunelty i do not have my replacement system in hand yet, he will need some feedback from us with newer CPU's to help improve ThrottleStop for 12'th and 13'th gen CPU's,
please chime in here to help speed ThrottleStop support for our CPU's
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-p-e-core-support.300650/

I think Unclewebb is referring to this post.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/cpu-cache-change-causes-immediate-bsod-i9-12900hx.299837/

My experience with tweaking the ThrottleStop also has crash right after enabling P/E Cache undervolt.

The guy in the post said he fixed it by reducing the "Cache Ratio". (36 in his text but 35 in his screenshot)
However, I remember somewhere else Unclewebb said the Cache Ratio is related to base frequency and since 12850HX's base frequency is 2.1GHz, I set it to 21(see my screenshot above).

This modification does prevent P/E Cache undervolt from crash but I think it also somehow has negative impact for the benchmark(according to my benchmark result).

Also, for some undervolt setting, it could pass the Cinebench R23 without problem but crash during 3DMark in my experience.

 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

if we just enable Unclewebb through one of our machines he will find the issue,
unfortunately as he mentioned he has no access to latest gen cpu to test on,
i believe there's some bug his expert eye needs to catch in order to fix this random crash when selecting P cache,
if no one will by then i will as soon as my replacement arrives which still few weeks out from now,
 

[win32asmguy]

52 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

if we just enable Unclewebb through one of our machines he will find the issue,
unfortunately as he mentioned he has no access to latest gen cpu to test on,
i believe there's some bug his expert eye needs to catch in order to fix this random crash when selecting P cache,
if no one will by then i will as soon as my replacement arrives which still few weeks out from now,
 

 

Just FYI undervolting P-cache isn't usually possible on a 12900K at stock ratios either. The only options are to drop the Ring Max multiplier down or disable all e-cores. I did have a 12900KS that was a good enough bin that it did not crash, so if you are super lucky with the silicon lottery its possible a 12950HX could do it as well.

 

It wouldn't hurt so bad except that the cache power draw counts against CPU TDP so if you can lower it by 15W or more by undervolting it allows much more thermal and power consumption room for the cores so long as they have enough cache bandwidth and latency.

[ATAN]

22 hours ago, RYANKO said:

I think Unclewebb is referring to this post.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/cpu-cache-change-causes-immediate-bsod-i9-12900hx.299837/

My experience with tweaking the ThrottleStop also has crash right after enabling P/E Cache undervolt.

The guy in the post said he fixed it by reducing the "Cache Ratio". (36 in his text but 35 in his screenshot)
However, I remember somewhere else Unclewebb said the Cache Ratio is related to base frequency and since 12850HX's base frequency is 2.1GHz, I set it to 21(see my screenshot above).

This modification does prevent P/E Cache undervolt from crash but I think it also somehow has negative impact for the benchmark(according to my benchmark result).

Also, for some undervolt setting, it could pass the Cinebench R23 without problem but crash during 3DMark in my experience.

 

I was also experiencing this at times, no e cores no problems as well.

 

20 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

 

Just FYI undervolting P-cache isn't usually possible on a 12900K at stock ratios either. The only options are to drop the Ring Max multiplier down or disable all e-cores. I did have a 12900KS that was a good enough bin that it did not crash, so if you are super lucky with the silicon lottery its possible a 12950HX could do it as well.

 

It wouldn't hurt so bad except that the cache power draw counts against CPU TDP so if you can lower it by 15W or more by undervolting it allows much more thermal and power consumption room for the cores so long as they have enough cache bandwidth and latency.

It definitely is the difference between 3.3ghz and 3.7ghz all core load cb(could take much more but I limit it to 80w from 92w after 5 secs cuz heat) and after that I've gotten up to 15.5k cbr23 and only down to 14.75k back to back. It definitely still sucks, if I don't want to burn my legs I limit it down to 45-60w whilst undocked, I'm effectively using the 4 fastest cores unregard of power and treating the 4 slowest as effective p cores by limiting the clocks severely.

[DarginMahkum]

Hello all! My first here. 🙂 I would like to get a desktop replacement laptop with an HX processor, mainly for work. I am an eGPU and Linux user, so actually I am not even interested in having any dGPU. 12800HX and 12900HX processors don't have a built-in TB4 controller, so the eGPU performance is quite lower than a lower grade CPU with a built-in TB4 controller. It looks like 12850/12950HX are the only processors in the HX line-up with integrated TB4 controller.

That brings me to 7670 and 7770. I guess not having any dGPU would help thermals a bit but still looks like to unlock the full performance a repaste and BIOS unlock is necessary. I was actually thinking of applying PTM7950 pads to the sides of the CPU as a barrier and applying LM to the middle actually most of the surface area - or maybe just 7950 for the whole surface. To my questions:

1. Has anyone tried a 7x70 with an eGPU, especially under Linux can say anything about the performance? I currently have a Razer Blade (RB) and when I use an eGPU, I see some stuttering with eGPU, which is also happening under Windows and can be mitigated only by disabling the dGPU. On RB and Timespy (Windows), I get around 16500 "GPU only" score with a 3090 eGPU, and the 12900H performs around 14300 (CPU only score, optimus disabled). Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to disable the dGPU with acpi_call method so far with RB - which has an awfully limited and non-standart BIOS / ACPI implementation. I would expect Dell to be better in that sense.

2. As I understand from the internal photos 7770 has 4 SSD slots and 7670 has 3. Am I right?

3. I would like to order with SO-DIMM modules. I can only order with two sticks, but does that mean it has only two slots for SO-DIMM configuration?

 

4. For the thermals, how does 7670 compare to 7770? Does it make sense to order 7770 instead of 7670 only for the thermals?

5. I have the option to order 180W or 240W power supply. I think, without a dGPU I don't think I need a 240W supply. What do you think?

Thank you. 🙂

 

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

Hello all! My first here. 🙂 I would like to get a desktop replacement laptop with an HX processor, mainly for work. I am an eGPU and Linux user, so actually I am not even interested in having any dGPU. 12800HX and 12900HX processors don't have a built-in TB4 controller, so the eGPU performance is quite lower than a lower grade CPU with a built-in TB4 controller. It looks like 12850/12950HX are the only processors in the HX line-up with integrated TB4 controller.

That brings me to 7670 and 7770. I guess not having any dGPU would help thermals a bit but still looks like to unlock the full performance a repaste and BIOS unlock is necessary. I was actually thinking of applying PTM7950 pads to the sides of the CPU as a barrier and applying LM to the middle actually most of the surface area - or maybe just 7950 for the whole surface. To my questions:

1. Has anyone tried a 7x70 with an eGPU, especially under Linux can say anything about the performance? I currently have a Razer Blade (RB) and when I use an eGPU, I see some stuttering with eGPU, which is also happening under Windows and can be mitigated only by disabling the dGPU. On RB and Timespy (Windows), I get around 16500 "GPU only" score with a 3090 eGPU, and the 12900H performs around 14300 (CPU only score, optimus disabled). Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to disable the dGPU with acpi_call method so far with RB - which has an awfully limited and non-standart BIOS / ACPI implementation. I would expect Dell to be better in that sense.

2. As I understand from the internal photos 7770 has 4 SSD slots and 7670 has 3. Am I right?

3. I would like to order with SO-DIMM modules. I can only order with two sticks, but does that mean it has only two slots for SO-DIMM configuration?

 

4. For the thermals, how does 7670 compare to 7770? Does it make sense to order 7770 instead of 7670 only for the thermals?

5. I have the option to order 180W or 240W power supply. I think, without a dGPU I don't think I need a 240W supply. What do you think?

Thank you. 🙂

 

 

If graphics performance is important for you do yourself a favor and go with an NVME eGPU solution and get a Dell with that bottom SSD cover.

 

You should get better and more consistent eGPU performance that way if you can handle the setup.

I checked it recently with a VERY old ca. 2015 MSI GT72 and an RTX 3080 and without any overclocking or the like we got a 16200 GPU score in TimeSpy. It is also supposed to be much more stable and doesn't have the issues that some games are almost unplayable that you will encounter with Thunderbolt.

 

If I was into that I would probably get the 7770 with the bottom port, a port saver for the SSD connector that eGPU holder, a power supply and a 4080 for about the price of a built in 3080 Ti.

 

If you want to read more you can check this thread IU would think and of course this site:

https://egpu.io/

 

And here a guy built this as an external graphics solution with his min PC:

 

If you want to stay with Thunderbolt then I would suggest to wait until TB5 is out - that will add some much needed bandwidth and hopefully will also result in less issues with certain games.

 

 

[operator]

2 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

2. As I understand from the internal photos 7770 has 4 SSD slots and 7670 has 3. Am I right?

3. I would like to order with SO-DIMM modules. I can only order with two sticks, but does that mean it has only two slots for SO-DIMM configuration?

 

4. For the thermals, how does 7670 compare to 7770? Does it make sense to order 7770 instead of 7670 only for the thermals?

 

5. I have the option to order 180W or 240W power supply. I think, without a dGPU I don't think I need a 240W supply. What do you think?

 

Welcome!

 

2. 7770 has 4 NVMe slots and 7670 has 3 NVMe slots. But depending on the battery size in 7670 only 2 NVMe slots are usable with the smaller battery.

 

3. SO-DIMM is working through an interposer which is mounted to the CAMM. So only 2 DIMM slots are available, maximum 2x32GB usable.

 

4. 7770 has slightly bigger cooler but also is able to draw more WATTS since it has a higher TDP.

 

5. Since the power brick is not very big, I would go for 240W, just in case. But thats only my opinion.

[alaskajoel]

How is discrete graphics only mode working on the 7770? I recall reading some problems with it early on, but I don't recall reading if the issues were resolved.

[Aaron44126]

3 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

5. I have the option to order 180W or 240W power supply. I think, without a dGPU I don't think I need a 240W supply. What do you think?

 

@operator's response above is on point.  I also recommend 240W, at least for the 7770.  The Intel CPU can pull over 150W by itself at peak so the 180W PSU doesn't leave a lot of headroom.  (...If you don't care about absolute top burst performance, which the system wouldn't be able to maintain for very long anyway, 180W would be fine.)

 

If you order 7670 with no dGPU, you will get the "thin" chassis which will only have two NVMe slots usable.  (The third slot will be covered by the battery.)  You must get the A3000 dGPU or better to get the "performance" chassis with all three NVMe slots usable.  7770 has all four NVMe slots open no matter which configuration you select.

 

I hadn't heard anything about the 12900HX and 12950HX being different with regards to Thunderbolt.  That seems odd to me...

 

28 minutes ago, alaskajoel said:

How is discrete graphics only mode working on the 7770? I recall reading some problems with it early on, but I don't recall reading if the issues were resolved.

 

I have an issue here with the system being unreliable in this configuration (sometimes won't wake the display up, sometimes garbled display unless using an external monitor).  I haven't seen this corroborated by anyone else, but I don't know if there are many 7770 users who have tried disabling graphics switching?  I have not engaged with Dell support about it yet, but I do intend to.

[DarginMahkum]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

If graphics performance is important for you do yourself a favor and go with an NVME eGPU solution and get a Dell with that bottom SSD cover.

I play games very seldomly and not too picky with the FPS but with 4x nvme slots, it would be a sin at least not to try it. 🙂Thank you for the detailed information.

1 hour ago, operator said:

2. 7770 has 4 NVMe slots and 7670 has 3 NVMe slots. But depending on the battery size in 7670 only 2 NVMe slots are usable with the smaller battery.

That is wonderful news. So, it will be 7770, then.

1 hour ago, operator said:

3. SO-DIMM is working through an interposer which is mounted to the CAMM. So only 2 DIMM slots are available, maximum 2x32GB usable.

I haven't checked how it is in the US but here in Germany 64 GB SO-DIMM costs €300, whereas 64 GB CAMM costs €1000. So I want to order one with 1x8GB and add 2x32 GB myself.

1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

@operator's response above is on point.  I also recommend 240W, at least for the 7770.  The Intel CPU can pull over 150W by itself at peak so the 180W PSU doesn't leave a lot of headroom.  (...If you don't care about absolute top burst performance, which the system wouldn't be able to maintain for very long anyway, 180W would be fine.)

Good point, thank you.

One more question. Do you think 12950HX makes sense over 12850HX? It is extra €400 which I am not willing to pay for a 3% increase of performance.

[Aaron44126]

5 minutes ago, DarginMahkum said:

One more question. Do you think 12950HX makes sense over 12850HX? It is extra €400 which I am not willing to pay for a 3% increase of performance.

 

Yeah...  Most likely you will not be able to tell the difference between 12850HX and 12950HX unless you are trying to push performance to the very edge.  (They have the same number of cores, same power limit, they'll both be throttled to a similar degree by the cooling system........  Extra cache in the 12950HX would make a little bit of difference.)

[RYANKO]

1 hour ago, DarginMahkum said:

One more question. Do you think 12950HX makes sense over 12850HX? It is extra €400 which I am not willing to pay for a 3% increase of performance.

From my observation here and there on the internet, the difference between 12850HX and 12950HX is around 4%-10% with various benchmark software. 

For real-world application and usage scenario, just like Aaron said, they may behave quite similar. It's again back to the decision between absolute best or saving some money...

[operator]

2 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

I haven't checked how it is in the US but here in Germany 64 GB SO-DIMM costs €300, whereas 64 GB CAMM costs €1000. So I want to order one with 1x8GB and add 2x32 GB myself.

 

This is exactly what I did.

 

2 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

One more question. Do you think 12950HX makes sense over 12850HX? It is extra €400 which I am not willing to pay for a 3% increase of performance.

 

Same thoughts on my side. Thats why I went for 12850. I don't think in real world scenarios it will be noticeable. And even if it will be - the question is how often you push the system so far that you'd need that extra percentage. Thats up to you and your desired usage of the system.

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

I play games very seldomly and not too picky with the FPS but with 4x nvme slots, it would be a sin at least not to try it. 🙂Thank you for the detailed information.

 

If you don't play that often then it will be a great option to go that route and save some money, I think there is even an option that offers both NVME/M2 and TB cabling in case you find the NVME route too much hassle.

 

 

3 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

One more question. Do you think 12950HX makes sense over 12850HX? It is extra €400 which I am not willing to pay for a 3% increase of performance.

 

In single core loads you may get about a 5% increase and probably you can also get a bit better multicore loads due to better binning. Realistically speaking this is not something that is worth 400 Euro more, better use that towards an external GPU and a better heatsink as has been discussed in this thread.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

@DarginMahkum
this should be a huge red flag warning but to each his own, (i returned 2x7670 with 12950HX,
ordered 7770 instead hoping it has enough thermal headroom that's useable), 
you can grab a practically brand new 7770 with 12600HX for as low as 1k with free shipping here

[1610ftw]

13 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

@DarginMahkum
this should be a huge red flag warning but to each his own, (i returned 2x7670 with 12950HX,
ordered 7770 instead hoping it has enough thermal headroom that's useable), 
you can grab a practically brand new 7770 with 12600HX for as low as 1k with free shipping here

 

Or throw in the 12850HX and the RTX A1000 for another 300:

 

7770 refurb

 

That is a fantastic deal if Dell would sell the interposer for the classic RAM separately in case one needs more than what Dell put in.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

not to mention at these prices you can still replace any part through Dell's warranty for free or upgrade to just about any higher spec component off ebay below half the price of buying direct plus waiting two months,
these refarb units can arrive overnight or within days form ordering,

[DarginMahkum]

Unfortunately I am in Germany and there are not so many options here. There are no refurbished 7770s, especially at that price. The ones (mostly the 15" variant) are not really cheaper than the new ones. And Dell doesn't seem to be shipping US items to Germany.

 

But thanks for suggestions and help.