Dell Precision 7670 & Dell Precision 7770 owner's thread

[win32asmguy]

2 hours ago, Dell-Mano_G said:

Sorry for the late notice, I just saw this on my calendar.

Join our Dell Client Community for some info on the Precision 7000 series and CAMM memory

Topic: HOLD: Dell Client Community Precision Mobile 7000 Series and CAMM Deep Dive

Time: Nov 15, 2022 11:45 AM Central Time (US and Canada)

 

Join Zoom Meeting

https://innovatisgroup.zoom.us/j/97128197405?pwd=TXM3ckpyR1ZnRWNWaHgxY0V2V3NEUT09

 

Thank you for this meeting! It was very informative. I was able to send an email to Alex requesting a bios option to have the system fans run at a minimal RPM in idle conditions instead of cycling on and off. I hope it is a possibility as that is the way they behave on the 7560/7760 as well.

 

I should also ask him if we could confirm if "Core/IA VR Domain -> AC Loadline" is mistakenly set to 4.0mOhms instead of 1.7mOhms.

[Aaron44126]

13 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

I hope it is a possibility as that is the way they behave on the 7560/7760 as well.

 

I  missed the meeting.  Too much going on today.

 

I can say though that my Precision 7560 fans definitely turn off on low load.  They just don't make any noise when powering back on to low RPM.  You wouldn't know if you weren't using a tool to watch the fan speed.

 

(That said, I'd also love the option to have the fans never power off.  I'm running a dynamic artificial CPU load to make that happen.  I understand that HP has that option in their latest workstation, but if the idle fan speed is ≈2500 RPM, that's also bad...)

[Light]

On 11/13/2022 at 9:02 PM, Aaron44126 said:

BIOS update 1.7.3.

https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=XMCK4

 

Fixes:
- Firmware updates to address security vulnerabilities including (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures - CVE) such as CVE-2022-21198, CVE-2022-26845, CVE-2022-29893, CVE-2022-27497, CVE-2022-33159, CVE-2022-26047, CVE-2021-23223, CVE-2021-37409, CVE-2021-44545, CVE-2022-21212, CVE-2022-21197, CVE-2022-21160, CVE-2022-21139, CVE-2022-21172, and CVE-2022-21240.

1.7.1 right?

[Aaron44126]

13 minutes ago, Light said:

1.7.1 right?

You are right, I mistyped.

[Kataphract]

I know this will read like I am absolute idiot, but I've built countless workstations over the years, so I know a thing or two about PCs. And yet.. I have no idea how to make additional PCIe3 m.2 SSDs work. No setting in bios makes them visible in Windows (device manager), I am not even sure I see them in bios.

The SSDs are fully working, I have enclosure on hand I tested them at before and after. Is it because the stock installation (single 1TB PCIe4 ssd) is setup as Raid ? They are fully inserted, correctly. I tried different SSDs in each of the two additional slots. Nothing happens.

Honestly I am just clueless, I have no idea what to try.

[Aaron44126]

13 minutes ago, Kataphract said:

Honestly I am just clueless, I have no idea what to try.

 

It should be just like connecting any other type of drive.  It "just works", even if RAID mode is enabled, if you don't put them in an array they will show up as individual drives.

 

In BIOS setup you should be able to go to the "Storage" section and scroll down, and it will show you what drives are connected.  It shows the drive model and capacity next to the toggle to enable or disable each M.2 slot.

 

(Of course, if they are blank drives you will need to go to Disk Management in Windows and initialize+format them.  They should still show up in Device Manager before you do that, though...)

 

Note, this system will accept only M.2 NVMe drives and not M.2 SATA drives (even though M.2 SATA drives will physically fit).

[MyPC8MyBrain]

@Kataphract new drives will not be automatically added after raid is initiated/activated,
it is possible that additional bays are disabled in bios for safety if raid was initiated with empty slots,
 

[Aaron44126]

31 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

@Kataphract new drives will not be automatically added after raid is initiated/activated,
it is possible that additional bays are disabled in bios for safety if raid was initiated with empty slots,

 

This has not been my experience.  Newly added drives will show up as individual drives automatically.

 

There's not much of a safety concern.  The RAID configuration (that is, which drives belong to which array) is not stored in the BIOS; it is stored as metadata on the drives themselves, so that Intel Rapid Storage RAID arrays can be "transplanted" between compatible systems with no configuration required.

[Kataphract]

These are of course, PCIe drives as I wrote, I don't even own any SATA m.2 anymore (since they lost their usefulness outside of external enclosures to me).
The Raid option is in section that I vaguely recall as some SSD-mode with 3 options :  Something, AHCI/NVME and lastly, Raid (IRS as well?). It's on that Raid. I presume I can't change this anymore without reinstalling Windows on that boot drive. 
(or is there a way to salvage current install? I don't plan on ever using any Raid in any form whatsover. I would like to get rid of Raid/IRS just for posterity.

But simply inserting the SSD haven't done anything. I think the section in bios that lets me enable or disable m.2 slots just shown them as empty or enabled. Would it show the populated SSD in name if it was recognized? I'll open it again over the weekend, re-insert and play more in bios.

Single-drive from factory set to Raid. Didn't even occur to me to check this before doing fresh install.

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, Kataphract said:

or is there a way to salvage current install?

 

Follow the steps to switch from RAID to AHCI/NVMe mode.  The first boot after the switch needs to be safe mode, and then it will be fine.

https://www.nbrchive.net/forum.notebookreview.com/threads/precision-7560-7760-owners-thread.836381/page-64.html#post-11112315

[MyPC8MyBrain]

12 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

it is stored as metadata on the drives themselves

precision workstation i believe are equipped with an actual raid controller chip not a software based raid,
you activate raid mode in bios which in turns activates separate raid menu post boot allowing one to configure raid 0/1/5/10, the main reason i believe it is a hardware/chip based raid vs. software raid is due to the raid option available, raid above 0/1 (or JBOD) usually deployed with hardware raid not software raid mainly to offload parity calculations overhead from the cpu, I could be wrong i have not fully researched this,

[Kataphract]

9 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Follow the steps to switch from RAID to AHCI/NVMe mode.  The first boot after the switch needs to be safe mode, and then it will be fine.

https://www.nbrchive.net/forum.notebookreview.com/threads/precision-7560-7760-owners-thread.836381/page-64.html#post-11112315

Thank you will try this. 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

2 hours ago, Kataphract said:

Thank you will try this. 

be advised... you cannot just switch RAID on/off (you technically can),
doing so will brick your OS and you will need to reinstall from scratch!

when you break a raid array (even if its one drive) the logical volume will technically mark deleted,
you also cannot "switch" back and forth between AHCI and Raid without losing your data from either direction, you usually set Raid or AHCi and only than deploy your OS not after,
there is no going back and forth or auto conversion between the two schema's,

you also cannot switch raid back on after bricking it or switching it off expecting it to work,
a new random key will be generated for encrypting the new volume data stripes,

i don't believe the information or procedure contained in the article Aaron found is accurate.

[Kataphract]

Yeah I am not fully sure either, I am more inclined towards your explanation as well. It wouldn't hurt too much to reinstall it now, just a little, 3-4 hours wasted getting my software back up.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

if you are not too invested in the the current OS install, it would be wise to start clean now before you start accumulating precious data, you could prob backup your current user profile folder (copy paste to external drive) then move it later to the new install to save some reinstall/config time,

[Kataphract]

I manage semi-large render-farm and 5-6 workstations, so I am used to re-installing a lot :- ) I am just bit miffed since I installed this laptop just month ago.
Windows is 15 minutes, Autodesk & Adobe suite one hour, so far all automatized, but all the plugins and their unique licencing schemes..  half a day of work. 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

if you have a another similar system running there you could prob image it over in matter of minutes 😉 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

you also have an option to create a live image of the system from within windows with something like acronis true image before you break raid, save it to external drive and deploy it after you switch to AHCi,

there is one caveat to this method, you will need to set your volume boot record manually, you can easily do this with a third party tool like AOMEI Partition Assistant off PE environment/USB boot,

 

you could also just install a clean new windows and let windows setup recreate your volume and boot records etc., than just deploy your backup image back in without overwriting existing boot records,

[SvenC]

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

be advised... you cannot just switch RAID on/off (you technically can),
doing so will brick your OS and you will need to reinstall from scratch!

when you break a raid array (even if its one drive) the logical volume will technically mark deleted,
you also cannot "switch" back and forth between AHCI and Raid without losing your data from either direction, you usually set Raid or AHCi and only than deploy your OS not after,
there is no going back and forth or auto conversion between the two schema's,

you also cannot switch raid back on after bricking it or switching it off expecting it to work,
a new random key will be generated for encrypting the new volume data stripes,

i don't believe the information or procedure contained in the article Aaron found is accurate.

 

The article works if you did not create a raid array. I had to switch to AHCI from RAID to use Samsung Magician. Standalone disks have no problems, no data lost.

 

At least that worked on 7730 and 7740. IIRC I did that on my old m6800 as well because Dell seems to enable RAID by default in BIOS.

[Aaron44126]

6 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

precision workstation i believe are equipped with an actual raid controller chip not a software based raid

 

This is not true.  It is software RAID, implemented in the driver.

 

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

be advised... you cannot just switch RAID on/off (you technically can),
doing so will brick your OS and you will need to reinstall from scratch!

 

You can switch, I've done it many times, as have others. You don’t need to do any sort of image/recovery. I linked the directions above, follow the steps and you will be fine.

[1610ftw]

On 11/14/2022 at 12:32 PM, pintie said:

thunderbold 4 = 4 PCI-Express-3.0-Lanes (= 32 Gbit/s)

you could also use the SSD door and the M2 slot  - also 4 x PCIe3

 

a 4090 would not make any sense. But something like a 2080 is not very limited with this.

 

 

On reddit somebody added a 4090 that way and achieved over 30000 in TimeSpy - seems to make a lot of sense to me if it makes a laptop way faster than desktops with every other card that exists:

 

 

 

I recently added an RTX 3080 eGPU to a Clevo P870TM from 2017 and got about 16200 to 16500 in TimeSpy - faster than the fastest 3080 Ti in laptops on the 3D Mark site and achieved without much of an effort.

[Aaron44126]

10 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

you also cannot switch raid back on after bricking it or switching it off expecting it to work,
a new random key will be generated for encrypting the new volume data stripes,

 

Just noticed this and wanted to clarify as well.  Intel RST RAID arrays are defined entirely off of metadata stored on the drives.  (They are not defined by anything saved in the BIOS/firmware.)  You can have a RAID array, switch to AHCI mode, switch back to RAID mode, and have the RAID array still functional.  You can't use the RAID array while the system is in AHCI mode (of course) but as long as you don't touch the drive data, the RAID will automatically be working again when you switch back to RAID mode.  People have done this to do firmware updates on drives, which sometimes is not possible while RAID mode is on.

 

Because of this, you can also move a RAID array to a different system that supports Intel RST.  Just move all of the drives over and Intel RST will automatically recognize the array, no configuration required.

  

10 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

when you break a raid array (even if its one drive) the logical volume will technically mark deleted,
you also cannot "switch" back and forth between AHCI and Raid without losing your data from either direction

 

When using Intel RST with a single drive not assigned to an array, there is nothing different about how the data is stored on the drive compared to using straight AHCI/NVMe mode.  The disk structure and partition layout is exactly the same.  You can switch back and forth freely and you will still be able to access the drive data without trouble.  (Indeed, if you use Linux, you don't have to take any special steps to switch back and forth and have the system boot up fine.)  The only issue causing "bricking" is that Windows really expects the disk controller for the primary drive to be the same, always.  If you boot to AHCI when the system was set up for RAID, it will try to load the RAID driver and fail, causing an "inaccessible boot device" BSOD.

 

Booting safe mode once, as the directions linked above show, works around this.  Windows will notice that the disk controller is different and set up the appropriate driver.  Also note — switching from RAID to AHCI is easily done, and if you do that, you can also switch back to RAID mode later if you like using the same process, since Windows already knows about the Intel RAID driver and can "find" it when you boot safe mode.  However, if Windows was installed with AHCI/NVMe mode on, switching to RAID mode can't be done using the same process unless you take additional steps to preload the Intel RAID driver.  (I've done this before as well.  It takes some specific registry work.)

 

Some of the "gotchas" presented by @MyPC8MyBrain are true for older dedicated RAID cards, but not with the "lite" software RAID implementation in the Dell Precision laptops.

[DarginMahkum]

2 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

On reddit somebody added a 4090 that way and achieved over 30000 in TimeSpy - seems to make a lot of sense to me if it makes a laptop way faster than desktops with every other card that exists:

I was able to achieve around 16500 using 3090 + TB and 12900H Razer Blade. Although I like the idea of direct PCIe connection, being able to safely and easily plug/unplug while the computer is running is something prefer over a performance jump. I am not planning to get a 4090 or anything, so I can live with this performance for now - though I am dying to try it. 😛

[MyPC8MyBrain]

11 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

but not with the "lite" software RAID implementation in the Dell Precision laptops

if that's the case then raid on mobile precision is another sad marketing department joke, and shouldn't be used to increase but rather slowdown performance in favor of data replication priorities, there is already a built-in function for software raid in windows and in either cases when cpu is doing the striping, parity, and encryption overhead on the fly is huge performance hit on the cpu and defeats the point of having a powerful mobile workstation,  just another pointless case of "lets put it in there it makes us look good, our customers don't know the difference or better" eye candy, just as they did with this poor example of thermal solution... "ahh they will buy it anyway"

  

11 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Some of the "gotchas" presented by

the "gotcha" is not my breakdown,
the way i described Raid is fundamentally the basics of how raid operates to this day, 
this thin down version of "Intel soft raid" implementation is the "gotcha" pawning raid functionality secretly on cpu instead of a traditional more expensive separate integrated raid controller to govern the overhead, 
not the other way around 😉 

 

11 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

I was able to achieve around 16500 using 3090

impressive results!
are you aware that the Asus Scar 17 SE with a proper vapor chamber scores higher with its 3080Ti dGpu and 12950HX CPU?
GPU score is around 15k and cpu score around 17k on 3DMARK, comes to show how bad the CPU thermal bottleneck is in this chassis if external 3090 barely able to perform similar to a 3080Ti dGpu,

 

 

 

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

impressive results!
are you aware that the Asus Scar 17 SE with a proper vapor chamber scores higher with its 3080Ti dGpu and 12950HX CPU?
GPU score is around 15k and cpu score around 17k on 3DMARK, comes to show how bad the CPU thermal bottleneck is in this chassis if external 3090 barely able to perform similar to a 3080Ti dGpu,

 

 

 

 

The bottleneck will probably be there in a few games that rely heavily on CPU but overall a 3090 will still give a big increase over the 11K or so score that apparently is what is possible with an internal 3080 Ti.

 

And just to point this out as your graphics score number is a bit too high for the 3080 Ti / 12950HX combo:

 

Even the top 5 scores are around 14.5K, still very good but not 15K: