Dell Precision 7670 & Dell Precision 7770 owner's thread

[win32asmguy]

52 minutes ago, PHVM_BR said:

@MyPC8MyBrain

This GPU limitation on the 2022 Precision 7000 is somewhat obscure.

 

As far as I know, the 2021 RTX has Dynamic Boost up to 15W and this has been increased to up to 25W in the 2022 releases (3080Ti included).

 

The Nvidia control panel reports the maximum TGP of 150W (base TGP + Dynamic Boost) so the base TGP should be at least 125W.

 

@Dell-Mano_G

 

Could you comment on the limitations reported by several owners?

 

I am pretty sure Dynamic Boost is working on the 7670 with 3080Ti. If I disable Nvidia PCF in the device manager, the sustained TDP is 90W, but if it is enabled then the sustained TDP is 102W.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/33796418/spy/33791770#

[MyPC8MyBrain]

40 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

I am pretty sure Dynamic Boost is working on the 7670 with 3080Ti

i believe boost is also working in the 7770 with 3080Ti just not as advertised,
i think the limit is 115w and we get extra 5w boost for a total of 120w,

 

i feel that @Dell-Mano_G silence on this entire dGpu and overheat fiasco speaks louder than words!

 

for those reading this later on...
if you're researching for a robust capable workstation look elsewhere!

[PHVM_BR]

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

 

I am pretty sure Dynamic Boost is working on the 7670 with 3080Ti. If I disable Nvidia PCF in the device manager, the sustained TDP is 90W, but if it is enabled then the sustained TDP is 102W.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/33796418/spy/33791770#

OK, Dynamic Boost is working, great, but throttling remains.

 

The maximum TGP shown in Nvidia's control panel is 125W (right?).

 

The reason for this limitation at 102W is that it must be answered by dell.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

17 minutes ago, PHVM_BR said:

it must be answered by dell.

their best response is posted few posts back, and their final official answer to this issue,

despite the agents trying to make it sound like i was asking for something that's not supported by Dell,

 

engineering claim to look into this issue and confirmed it is limited due to power supply limit (which they also imposed),

 

[Aaron44126]

25 minutes ago, PHVM_BR said:

The reason for this limitation at 102W is that it must be answered by dell.

 

Maybe disappointing, but this is not new or unexpected.  Last year's systems were reporting 140W max TGP but effectively capped lower as well (I forget what exactly, 110-115W in Precision 7760?).

 

@Dell-Mano_G doesn't manage the support reps so I doubt he will have much input as to why certain support experiences played out the way that they did.  I suspect he knew that there would be those of us disappointed with the power levels which may be part of the reason that they were not divulged ahead of launch (as they have been in the past), and even at launch we only got CPU+GPU combo limits and not the individual limits.  I haven't seen Dell advertising 150W GPU power limit anywhere.  In any case, it's unusual for Dell to make any changes or feature additions to a product after launch, so I figured that getting them to unlock the TGP or change the fan control behavior was a long shot at best.  (...They will fix things, though, as we have seen with the IA AC/DC loadline fix for example — that might have even come as a direct result of the posts in this forum.)

 

2 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

if you're researching for a robust capable workstation look elsewhere!

 

The sad state of affairs is, every system out there right now for this generation is compromised in some way, so you have to do some research and figure out which one has the downsides that bother you least.  There are some 17" gaming-focused systems that might offer higher total raw performance.  I'm only aware of three Alder Lake laptops that offer 4× NVMe slots.  And if you want business-class support, you're really just looking at Lenovo, HP, and Dell.  Of those, only HP and Dell are offering 4× NVMe (important to me right now, maybe less so if 16TB drives become available)...  I haven't looked at HP too close but I suspect their GPU power level is even more gimped than the Precision 7770's (that's normally the case for them).  HP does have a BIOS option to keep the fans from powering off, but that forces them to run at around ≈2400 RPM at the lowest level (so I hear), too noisy for idle workloads.  And anyway, only Dell is offering 17", so there's really no other choice.  I don't run super performance-heavy stuff, just moderate gaming and occasionally video encoding, and I've been OK with what I'm getting out of this system even if the benchmarks don't top the charts.  (I do have a bulk data archiving project going on which is why I need all these drives!)

[PHVM_BR]

6 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

their best response is posted few posts back, and their final official answer to this issue,

despite the agents trying to make it sound like i was asking for something that's not supported by Dell,

 

engineering claim to look into this issue and confirmed it is limited due to power supply limit (which they also imposed),

 

Locking CPU power to low values is a way to force Dynamic Boost to act at full capacity on limited systems (temperature and/or power).

 

If even limiting the cpu to 30W the maximum TGP is not reached, there is something beyond that only Dell can answer...

 

Even with the power supply limited due to the 240W adapter, sustained 130+W on the 3080Ti should be possible with the processor limited.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

4 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

doesn't manage the support reps so I doubt he will have much input as to why certain support experiences played out the way that they did

completely understood, it was more a friendly needle at @Dell-Mano_G 

 

6 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

and I've been OK with what I'm getting out of this system

i don't disagree with most of what you stated above with the exception of the above,
can you tell me that 17' XPS with 3060 will give you less performance than the 7770 is currently dishing out?
 

the only difference will be 2 x M.2 slots, beyond that the value is just not there for a workstation class,

extra 2 x M.2 slots can be circumvented and not worth the extra expenses just to get a worst performing machine,

i really feel bad for because you could have bought a new car with how you spec'd your system,

money doesn't grow on trees clearly these agents have little respect for our hard earned money with pile of lies and army of customer service ready to refute and wear out our patience,
 

[PHVM_BR]

16 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

but I suspect their GPU power level is even more gimped than the Precision 7770's (that's normally the case for them).

I believe the (real) TGP is even lower on the Fury 16 G9 and similar on the P16...Regarding the 7770.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

@Aaron44126

here's funny true story for you,

as i was going through trying to get some attention to the fan and heat issue,

a Pro Support agent was trying to help resolve the problem, he did his research while i was waiting,
taken him quite some time he went through few options i responded with i already tried,

eventually he came up with "you should use Dell Fan Management Tool"

to which i responded with i am actually in touch the the Author of the software....

and he himself is in the same predicament i am in as he own a 7770 as well,

 

30 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

as we have seen with the IA AC/DC loadline fix for example — that might have even come as a direct result of the posts in this forum.

 100% 

from my timeline view this happened 3 days after i showed the agent this specific thread and your fan support thread and explained that you are in the same boat as I am and we are all trying to figure out a way to resolve this, but if a capable author cannot help himself how are we suppose to navigate this?
 

i also explained how bad the system heats up out the box and load line calibration we apply ourselves, 

in my view none of these should have left the factory this way but yet it did,

yes this thread been a great help in getting attention to these issues.

[Aaron44126]

37 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

can you tell me that 17' XPS with 3060 will give you less performance than the 7770 is currently dishing out?

 

Huh?  I'm not sure that I understand this comment.  XPS 17 9720 has a puny-by-comparison 130W PSU.  With a GeForce RTX 3060, it scores around 6600 in Time Spy.  Precision 7770 certainly tramples it even without any tuning.

 

Anyway, I knew full well going in that both the CPU and GPU are recycled/underpowered desktop components that would perform accordingly.

 

Dell doesn't turn BIOS updates around in 3 days.  I've been through beta testing BIOS updates with them before.  If anything I suspect that this went through a few weeks of investigation/planning/implementation/testing before it was included with the BIOS update posted on the support site.  (Referring to the AC/DC loadline fix here.)

[win32asmguy]

3 minutes ago, PHVM_BR said:

I believe the (real) TGP is even lower on the Fury 16 G9 and similar on the P16...Regarding the 7770.

 

The Zbook Fury 16 G9 is 90W for the A4500, no dynamic boost or pull beyond that. It has a unified vapor chamber but rather small fans and overall cooling unit size.

 

The Thinkpad P16 is a 115W A4500, with dynamic boost to 130W. It does have TWO separate vapor chambers one for CPU and another for GPU, so the best cooling and highest TDP. The stock paste is NOT Honeywell PTM79xx so the factory job can vary.

 

The Precision 7770 was generally 120W from my experience, nothing I did could get it up to 130W where Aaron's machine would sit hence me thinking he had an early production machine that somehow accidentally has higher boost limits.

 

This 7670 appears to be 90W with boost up to 102W. It is a lot better price / performance though. As a refurb with the 12950HX and 3080Ti and FHD for only $2100 before taxes its significantly cheaper than the 7770 config. I also found the 18W extra GPU TDP only brought roughly 10% more performance. Even more hilariously the fans on the 7670 do not have the stupid grinding/whoosh noise when cycling on/off.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

42 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

Huh?  I'm not sure that I understand this comment.

its not that puny, for comparison i scored 8184 with XPS 17 with 3060 and 11980HK,
which is last gen 8 core cpu https://www.3dmark.com/spy/28621022 

if i run the same test now with latest CPU im pretty sure i can get very close to what we see with our 7770 and 3080Ti, mind you that system never throttle down or overheated no matter how hard i run it (with LM TIM),

 

here's what XPS 17 with 12700 and 3060 roughly scores atm (bit low then i expected)

note graphics score is not far off the 3080Ti we see atm (compared with my best, most here have a hard time achieving to begin with, and are more in the 3060 score range),

our CPU with 3080Ti is not even able to achieve its average of 13800 score for same hardware spec, as hard as i tried it wont get near 13k, not to mention get close to the highest score at 14800,
 

[justdevelop]

Hello

I work as a developer, don't play games, so my graphics requirements are low, no rendering, also never use more than 1080p screens to avoid scaling the screen over 100%. However, needs a lot of memory, 17 inch screen and powerful processor with many threads and fast hard drive, therefore precision 7770 appeals to me.

 

But I'm thinking a bit about what kind of integrated graphics it is in the processor i7hx and i9hx. according to dell it is Iris. but I can't get it together. if hx is a desktop chip, there should be a 32eu uhd graphic. Anyone know more about this? and is there anyone who runs these computers only with integrated graphics, is the performance ok, is it possible to connect several screens?

[MyPC8MyBrain]

On 12/5/2022 at 1:47 PM, Aaron44126 said:

The iGPU is determined by the CPU.  You'd have to complain to Intel about this.  They use the same iGPU in all Alder Lake HX CPUs.  (Well, aside from 12450HX which gets only half of the EUs compared to the rest.)

 

The iGPU in Alder Lake HX does use the same Xe graphics architecture used in the Alder Lake H CPUs.  It is just 32 EUs, compared to 64 or 96 in the Alder Lake H CPUs that they have labeled as "Iris" graphics.

@justdevelop see above
the 12950HX gets UHD integrated,
some of the lower thin chassis cpu combo somehow end up with the newer Iris integrated, not sure what the conditions are to get the Iris integrated, i tried asking my system spec'd with the Iris integrated, Dell refused!
 

one of the members on here was looking to replace the heat pipe and plates that come with the 7770 and high end dGpu to see if he could lower his temps in his system without dGpu, 

later on i removed my dGpu and tested the chassis without it (see here),
the cpu with or without dGpu performs well and to spec!
(it will thermal throttle very quickly due to lack of thermal headroom in the chassis and anemic embedded thermal solution)

as for external screen compatibility without dGpu i have no hands on experience to share, 

[justdevelop]

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

@justdevelop see above
the 12950HX gets UHD integrated,
some of the lower thin chassis cpu combo somehow end up with the newer Iris integrated, not sure what the conditions are to get the Iris integrated, i tried asking my system spec'd with the Iris integrated, Dell refused!
 

one of the members on here was looking to replace the heat pipe and plates that come with the 7770 and high end dGpu to see if he could lower his temps in his system without dGpu, 

later on i removed my dGpu and tested the chassis without it (see here),
the cpu with or without dGpu performs well and to spec!
(it will thermal throttle very quickly due to lack of thermal headroom in the chassis and anemic embedded thermal solution)

as for external screen compatibility without dGpu i have no hands on experience to share, 

 

Thank you @MyPC8MyBrain

 

Strange of Dell to write IRIS when it clearly isn't.
I can click in Dell's IRIS (UHD) together with the FullHD variants of screen. That would be enough for me and I don't need more graphics performance.

 

However, I am a bit afraid that the machine will run hot and lose performance. During development, there will be many application builds and they take all the processing power that is available.

 

Might have to consider if this is something for me.

[Aaron44126]

6 hours ago, justdevelop said:

But I'm thinking a bit about what kind of integrated graphics it is in the processor i7hx and i9hx. according to dell it is Iris. but I can't get it together. if hx is a desktop chip, there should be a 32eu uhd graphic.

5 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

i tried asking my system spec'd with the Iris integrated, Dell refused!

 

You are right, Alder Lake HX just has the iGPU with 32 EUs.  If you need more power from the iGPU, you should get a system with an Alder Lake "H" CPU and not "HX".  (Dell has no way of offering the system with "Iris" graphics; there are no Alder Lake HX CPUs that offer this.  I think they might have written "Iris" in some marketing material because it is the same Xe graphics architecture used in other Alder Lake CPUs... it just has fewer EUs.  But, that is misleading for sure.)

 

I've used this and previous systems with three 4K displays connected to the iGPU (one built-in + two external) and performance is fine for desktop applications and high-resolution video playback.  I do always get my work dev systems (like my Precision 7560) with a low-end NVIDIA GPU though, just in case some better graphics performance is needed for something.  Nowadays, even the bottom-end NVIDIA dGPUs have tensor cores which can be used for AI applications as well.

 

As for CPU performance, I also work in the software development field and again I have found performance to be "fine".  It's better than Precision 7X60 for sure, even if there are other systems that could push the CPU a bit harder.  Alder Lake's hybrid architecture is a bit of an adjustment, I'm still running Windows 10 and I am using Process Lasso to make sure that certain processes end up on certain types of cores as I desire.

[1610ftw]

13 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

its not that puny, for comparison i scored 8184 with XPS 17 with 3060 and 11980HK,
which is last gen 8 core cpu https://www.3dmark.com/spy/28621022 

if i run the same test now with latest CPU im pretty sure i can get very close to what we see with our 7770 and 3080Ti, mind you that system never throttle down or overheated no matter how hard i run it (with LM TIM),

 

here's what XPS 17 with 12700 and 3060 roughly scores atm (bit low then i expected)

note graphics score is not far off the 3080Ti we see atm (compared with my best, most here have a hard time achieving to begin with, and are more in the 3060 score range),

our CPU with 3080Ti is not even able to achieve its average of 13800 score for same hardware spec, as hard as i tried it wont get near 13k, not to mention get close to the highest score at 14800,
 

 

There is only the MSI workstation that will give you 14K+ but it is based on a gaming laptop.

The other manufacturers also do not give you what you want.

 

So it is a bit strange that you keep coming at Dell here when both Lenovo and HP aren't any better and in fact possibly a bit worse when it comes to the GPU part. Personally I would rather have a mostly silent Dell even with lesser CPU stamina than the annoyingly loud HP Zbook 16 G9 or the Lenovo workstation with a ridiculous storage capability of only 2 NVME SSDs - it is not as if on the other side that grass is really greener once you have a closer look.

 

 

 

[PHVM_BR]

12 hours ago, justdevelop said:

But I'm thinking a bit about what kind of integrated graphics it is in the processor i7hx and i9hx. according to dell it is Iris. but I can't get it together. if hx is a desktop chip, there should be a 32eu uhd graphic. Anyone know more about this? and is there anyone who runs these computers only with integrated graphics, is the performance ok, is it possible to connect several screens?

Intel HX processors have UHD Graphics 770, which is a limited version of Iris Xe with only 32EUs.

 

As with the Iris Xe G7, up to 3 monitors plus the internal screen are possible.

Up to 4K@60Hz via HDMI and up to 8K@60Hz via DP.

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/228439/intel-core-i912950hx-processor-30m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz/specifications.html

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-UHD-Graphics-770-Alder-Lake-GPU-Benchmarks-and-Specs.633858.0.html

[MyPC8MyBrain]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

There is only the MSI workstation

sure there is there's HP, Lenovo and Asus, wont touch with a stick but still MSI is also a player,

there is no such thing as gaming based laptop, what does that actually mean?

it can do something the 7770 cant do or just do it and every other task better?

that's all marketing nonsense.
 

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

So it is a bit strange that you keep coming at Dell

I didn't do business with the others i gave Dell $4500 of my hard earned money and paid for 6 year damage insurance that's why, Dell didn't admit their faults but instead kept wasting my time the past 6 months with replacements pretending there's a fault in the device when in reality they know very well what they did, and just using their army of support people to fend what they know coming.

 

you all keep defending the undefendable, they know what they did long before we got these machines in hand, to try and draw imaginary line between two machine then impose deliberate crippling features they try to hide, i stand on two legs with that statement, how many legs is Dell standing on saying that they cant deliver proper functioning dGpu to its spec when they do it with no issues on the Alienware, it gets the 330w proper power supply that is fully able to drive dGpu, so tell me pls which leg is Dell standing on the third one?

 

and who here doesn't love their patronizing attitude... "work with our customer care team to request and work on getting a refund as this system does not meet the specifications required that you expected." it actually does meet my requirement if Dell delivered instead of manipulating and why i choose the spec in the first place,
zero accountability.

[Aaron44126]

46 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

there is no such thing as gaming based laptop, what does that actually mean?

 

Everyone has their own definition, but to me a "gaming" laptop would be a high-spec laptop that doesn't quite hit workstation-class.  You could certainly use a "gaming" laptop for work just like you could a "workstation", but most businesses wouldn't buy one, so gamers are the main audience.  Workstation-class would entail business-class support (mainly, prompt attention and parts replacements without having to mail the laptop in), a durable build (using more metal than plastic for the chassis), and long-term support (BIOS and driver updates for several years).  MSI and ASUS haven't hit this threshold.

 

46 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

they cant deliver proper functioning dGpu to its spec when they do it with no issues on the Alienware, it gets the 330w proper power supply that is fully able to drive dGpu, so tell which leg is Dell standing on the third one?

 

Yeah, I think that the main sticking point here is expectations.  I fully expected Dell to have a pretty "low" limit on the dGPU when I bought this thing.  (Nowhere are they advertising a particular power capability for either the CPU or dGPU.)  I've been around this space for a while and I know how they operate.  I purchased it with that in mind and was not the least bit surprised to find out that my expectations were correct.  I'm generally happy just that the power limits have been raised a bit from the Precision 7760.  I feel that the trajectory that Dell is going with the Precision 7000 line means that they will be trying to shrink the chassis by a few mm's whenever they refresh it, and they will not be increasing the power supply above 240W (unless there is some big advance in cooling design/materials), the perception being that their main audience (large businesses) does not want "bigger" systems.

 

They didn't design this system to go toe-to-toe with Alienware.  The latest 17" Alienware uses more space on the cooling system with four fans, which means higher power limits and compute potential but less room for other things (NVMe drive slots for example).  I'd also argue that the Precision 7X70 systems largely working "as designed", as the rep even said.  It simply wasn't designed to the level of capability that you were hoping for.  I might wish that they made some different design choices, for sure, but there isn't much any single individual or small group can do to change how they approach their product design.  (I also wish that the industry as a whole would be more transparent when it comes to expected performance / power levels when the same chips are offered in different products.)  There have been some missteps (AC/DC loadline, poor performance from some of the early coolers) which Dell worked to fix, but they aren't obligated to design to max out their dGPU and CPU power limits to the highest levels "allowed" by NVIDIA and Intel.

 

As for the others (HP, Lenovo, ASUS, etc.), as has been discussed in recent posts, each of their systems has its own compromises.  Everything is a trade-off (ever constant in computing).  The other workstation makers (HP/Lenovo) have apparently decided that their main audience (large businesses) does not want "bigger" systems to the point that they dropped their 17" offering altogether.  Anyway, everyone has got to look at the options and pick what matters to you the most — this forum may be unique in that there are threads going around discussing all of these things with each of the options on offer.  For myself, I've put business-class support, 17" display, and max storage at a higher priority than max CPU and dGPU performance.  ...Otherwise, I would have bought a "gaming" laptop.

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

sure there is there's HP, Lenovo and Asus!

there is no such thing as gaming based laptop, what does that actually mean?

it can do something the 7770 cant do or just do it and every other task better?

that's all marketing nonsense.

 

There is no comparable workstation from Asus with regard to a professional exterior, memory or storage.

I think that Asus unit you brought up earlier does not even have a camera or fingerprint reader and I would not be surprised if they did not have a Kensington lock either.

 

I have no idea what a gaming based laptop means as I did not write about them, you did 😉

 

Obviously the MSI workstation has a lot higher sustained performance than the Dell units with very similar hardware, memory and storage capabilities which is why I mentioned it. It also does not look that much like a gaming laptop and can be had with I believe 4 years warranty but 6 years like with Dell probably isn't possible nor do they offer the same level of on site support to my knowledge.

 

 

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

I didn't do business with the others i gave Dell $4500 of my hard earned money and paid for 6 year full coverage, that's why,
Dell didn't admit their faults but instead kept wasting my time the past 6 months with replacements pretending there's a fault in the device when in reality they know very well what they did, and just using their army of support people to fend what they know coming.

 

you all keep defending the undefendable, they know what they did long before we got these machines in hand,

to try and draw imaginary line between two machine then impose deliberate crippling features they try to hide,

i stand on two legs with that statement, how many legs is Dell standing on saying that they cant deliver proper functioning dGpu to its spec when they do it with no issues on the Alienware, it gets the 330w proper power supply that is fully able to drive dGpu, so tell me pls which leg is Dell standing on the third one?

 

 

 

I was putting things in perspective. Is it reasonable to expect performance and/or an overall package that does not exist with any other manufacturer?

 

Dell has been pretty outspoken about the performance limitations of the chassis short of explicitly stating that it sucks which is probably the clarity you would have needed to not buy? In any case you cannot have it all with Dell probably still ticking most of the boxes appreciated by workstation users which do not include maximum sustained performance.

 

By the way: I agree with you that on an absolute scale the performance of these workstations is rather deplorable especially as they come from the factory but this has become very clear quite early in the thread yet you decided to go ahead with your 7770 purchase - it is not as if you are experiencing something that could be descibed as unexpected when it comes to the performance limitations of this chassis when @Aaron44126and @win32asmguy have been pretty outspoken about it from the very start of this thread.

 

So overall I think that you still got the best compromise out of this generation of laptops. CPU may be better with Lenovo and HP but the power limits of the GPU make the Dell pull ahead in GPU performance even though it does not achieve the scores you may have wanted - 12K is pretty good already and not that far off.

 

 

 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

to me a "gaming" laptop would be a high-spec laptop that doesn't quite hit workstation-class.

i feel the same way, a logic that's the other way around just doesn't sit we'll with me,

a workstation that doesn't hit the gaming platform performance threshold is just wrong imho.

 

1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

MSI and ASUS haven't hit this threshold.

mostly agreed, i come from the days when 8MB stick RAM was a big deal or a 64MB (< not a typo!) drive was huge, for me to make such distinction is just odd, how desperately these companies try to make a distinction by crippling features,

i and most here happen to know there isn't a difference despite marketing efforts to create such differences,

i find it very hard to gel with these greedy manipulations,

 

1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

I think that the main sticking point here is expectations.  I fully expected Dell to have a pretty "low" limit on the dGPU when I bought this thing.

how did you figure that out in advance?

i never expected a workstation class to deliver lower than a generic gaming platform performance,

 

i can pull my Dell order list you will see all the way back to 03 i been buying laptops for my kids and family,
there easy 40-50 units i purchased over the years, there was never a crippling features in the precision line so another model can shine brighter, granted i mostly worked professionally with their PowerEdge line in extremally large capacity,

but laptops always been my preferred platform for personal computing, its not my first rodeo even with me being an old geezer.

 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

2 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

overall I think that you still got the best compromise out of this generation of laptops.

bit on the fence there, i didn't want to buy a compromise at $4500,
for around 2k i don't have an issue with some compromising,

i was hoping the 7770 larger chassis will have bit more thermal headroom than the 7670 has,
i think i even stated somewhere here that if i can get the 7770 to 13k score it will be good enough for me to keep,
yes i am not that far off from that score but i am well aware that I am off by at least 1400 point from the same hardware average performance and that is a hard pill to swallow coming from Dell top of the line workstation,

 

[Aaron44126]

25 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

mostly agreed, i come from the days when 8MB stick RAM was a big deal or a 64MB (< not a typo!) drive was huge

 

I remember this as well, I've been into computing since the DOS days when monitors could show black and orange, and you had to manually configure how many heads and cylinders your hard drive had in the BIOS settings, and I used some early laptops that had a LCD screen transition delay so bad that you could see a "ghost image" of the mouse pointer for a second or so after it was moved.  🙂  And I remember using the Windows 95 with multiple apps open and Internet and everything, but only 16 MB of RAM, and somehow that was workable... boggles the mind now.

 

25 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

how did you figure that out in advance?

 

Like I said...  I've been in this space for a while and I know how they operate.  I'm talking about the Dell Precision mobile workstation space in particular.  Even though I don't get to personally use a new model every year, I've been active on this site (or NBR) around all Precision product launches going back to 2012 (and I was "lurking" even before then).  Last year with Precision 7X60 it was exactly the same thing, except for the power limits were slightly lower.  A dGPU chip which NVIDIA had spec'ed to work at 165W was limited to 110-115W in the Precision 7760, despite NVIDIA control panel showing 140W max TGP.  (Limits in Precision 7560 were even lower.)  Why would this year's models be different?  I would not hold out hope that things are going to change for next year's models either, nor the year after...

 

The big difference between now and the "old days" is the ever-increasing power ceiling on chips.  A decade ago you could expect CPUs and GPUs to operate at their maximum speeds and power levels even in a laptop as long as cooling system was sufficient; that's not really the case anymore.  Different manufacturers have approached this challenge in different ways with different models (comes back to "everything is a compromise"), and Dell is more conservative with the power limits in Precision than they are in Alienware.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

28 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

boggles the mind now.

100% agree same here,

i can show you a 32k remote application from late 90's that works to this day, with active DS and dynamic DNS with NAT traverse (from RA Industries, company closed by now), any installer background image for the wrapper is larger then that whole application today 😄 

Apollo flown to the moon and back with 16k total capacity and Dell cant figure this out? 😉