HP ZBook Fury G9/G10 (16") General Thread

[Snoflo]

22 hours ago, Easa said:

 

You probably just got a lemon. Happens. I had 5-6 RMA Issues back on M4800, zero with Zbook G1 🙂 But it is true that the HP service just does not compare to Dell, thats a whole different league.

 

Anyways, my contact in HP just responded after holiday slumber, I will have this configuration for a review:

https://www.lasystems.be/en/hp-62u90ea-abh

 

Oh my! 6 RMAs. Okay, thank you: I feel a little better now. Sorry you had to go through that. Yeah, reading through the forum gives me the impression that Dell support seems really good. 

 

I look forward to your review. Interested to know if the fans are annoying. The fans are on my unit, but I sort of just live with it. My unit has same specs as the one you will be reviewing save for the RAM and graphics (64GB and A5500 on mine, respectively).

 

Thanks for the support.

[saperkus]

I was able to test two 16 G9 with different configurations:

• i7-12850HX, RTX A1000, 1920x1200 400nits 100% sRGB display.
• i9-12950HX, RTX A5500 (Vapor Chamber), 1920x1200 400nits 100% sRGB display.

I compared them to 15 G8, so visually I prefer G8 ascetics - especially palmrest area. G9 is definitely not as loud as G8 during the work. I would even say, that the loudness was on tolerable level, but as I am using cooling pad with G8, my noise tolerance may be quite a bit higher than rest of the users. Temperature-wise, G9 is also quite better than G8, however G8 was not that bad, when I compare it to G7. The bottom cover of G7 had over 70C during the load. Even on idle it was very uncomfortable to touch (around 50C).

Going back to G9... Good points were already mentioned in topic, so I will focus on some of issues... Device is a real scratch magnet in comparison to G7/G8. Just by putting it upside-down to get an access to internals was enough to get some scratches on the top. I have also observed some strange flickering on the display - it was not a PWM, but it seems that one of panels had some issues with displaying some colors. This issue was not visible on every unit, so it could be that one of panel vendors provided a faulty panels. Performance wise, there is no point in getting anything better than i7-12850HX, as I got basically exactly there same performance on i7 and i9 devices. There might be a slightly better single core performance, but this is not enough to justify extra cost (and higher thermals). If someone is using HP Thunderbolt docks, then device can also have some strange issues with them, but I do not think they will have any impact on home use.

[FlashWolf]

23 hours ago, saperkus said:

I was able to test two 16 G9 with different configurations:

• i7-12850HX, RTX A1000, 1920x1200 400nits 100% sRGB display.
• i9-12950HX, RTX A5500 (Vapor Chamber), 1920x1200 400nits 100% sRGB display.

I compared them to 15 G8, so visually I prefer G8 ascetics - especially palmrest area. G9 is definitely not as loud as G8 during the work. I would even say, that the loudness was on tolerable level, but as I am using cooling pad with G8, my noise tolerance may be quite a bit higher than rest of the users. Temperature-wise, G9 is also quite better than G8, however G8 was not that bad, when I compare it to G7. The bottom cover of G7 had over 70C during the load. Even on idle it was very uncomfortable to touch (around 50C).

Going back to G9... Good points were already mentioned in topic, so I will focus on some of issues... Device is a real scratch magnet in comparison to G7/G8. Just by putting it upside-down to get an access to internals was enough to get some scratches on the top. I have also observed some strange flickering on the display - it was not a PWM, but it seems that one of panels had some issues with displaying some colors. This issue was not visible on every unit, so it could be that one of panel vendors provided a faulty panels. Performance wise, there is no point in getting anything better than i7-12850HX, as I got basically exactly there same performance on i7 and i9 devices. There might be a slightly better single core performance, but this is not enough to justify extra cost (and higher thermals). If someone is using HP Thunderbolt docks, then device can also have some strange issues with them, but I do not think they will have any impact on home use.

 

Hello saperkus,

 

thanks for your reply, i am also experiencing problems with all the thunderbolt docks, looks like a general thunderbolt problem. for information: we use the 280w Thunderbolt G4 and a dell wd19dcs. the dell tb15 with 180watt isnt even charging the hp notebook....

We are experiencing random display disconnects, so sporadically one of the connected displays disconnects and after 3 seconds connects again. this problem appears on all thunderbolt docks. we have already switched in bios from hybrid to discrete graphics but no success.

 

we have 4 hp zbook fury g9 and all 4 have the same problems..

 

 

another thing is: why does the zbook not adress the full speed of the ram? inside are 2x16GB samsung 4800mhz ddr5 but in hwinfo and windows its showing me that the effective speed is only 4000mhz? also the intel specification of the 12950hx shows that it should be able to use the speed of 4800mhz

 

maybe you can confirm that you have the same problem?

 

thanks

 

best regards 

 

sebastian

[saperkus]

4 hours ago, FlashWolf said:

another thing is: why does the zbook not adress the full speed of the ram? inside are 2x16GB samsung 4800mhz ddr5 but in hwinfo and windows its showing me that the effective speed is only 4000mhz? also the intel specification of the 12950hx shows that it should be able to use the speed of 4800mhz

 

maybe you can confirm that you have the same problem?

That's the reason why Dell developed the CAMM modules... This is not a problem, but a platform limitation. Both Lenovo ThinkPad P16 and HP ZBook Fury 16 G9 are affected. With DDR5, we came to limits of SO-DIMM standard. These limits are not so apparent with two SO-DIMM slots devices, but four SO-DIMM slots requires longer routes, which effectively limits the maximum performance. Additionally, 2 Rank modules (32GB) will reduce maximum speed to 3600MHz. In general, if you are using up to 4x8GB, 4x16GB, 2x32GB RAM modules and you have not mixed modules form different vendors (in majority of cases), then you should get 4000MHz. If you have installed 3x32GB or 4x32GB, then maximum speed will be 3600MHz. And if you mix 1 Rank (8GB, 16GB) and 2 Rank (32GB) modules, then you may end up with 2000MHz...

 

And for your information, DDR4-3200 is also affected by this issue (I have verified it on HP ZBook Fury 15 G8). If you mix modules or use an unsupported configuration like 2x16GB + 2x8GB, then speeds will drop to 2933MHz.

 

4 hours ago, FlashWolf said:

i am also experiencing problems with all the thunderbolt docks, looks like a general thunderbolt problem. for information: we use the 280w Thunderbolt G4 and a dell wd19dcs. the dell tb15 with 180watt isnt even charging the hp notebook....

You should avoid any non-HP branded docks... WD19DCS has a custom charging implementation, which can be utilized only on Dell Precision 7000 Series devices. It can deliver 130W for other Dell devices (another custom implementation) and 90W for non-Dell devices. TB15 is a vile thing with a hardware flaw. Dell recalled it back in 2016. You should scrap it ASAP.

 

4 hours ago, FlashWolf said:

We are experiencing random display disconnects, so sporadically one of the connected displays disconnects and after 3 seconds connects again. this problem appears on all thunderbolt docks. we have already switched in bios from hybrid to discrete graphics but no success.

 

we have 4 hp zbook fury g9 and all 4 have the same problems..

Oh, this issue. I think, I first saw it back in 2014 or 2015 with HP ZBook 17 G1... It can have a different "flavors". Screen could be blinking or device will simply stop recognizing external displays. I have experienced it few weeks ago - last time on HP ZBook Fury 15 G8. There was a dock with two external displays connected to it. When only one display was powered on, then screen was blinking and artifacts were visible on the display. But, when I have turned out second display, issue was gone. You need to change display topology (e.g. use more/less displays than usual) - this should force the device to reinitialize the video. You can also simply connect directly one display, which previously was never connected to the device. This should also do the trick.

 

And switching from Hybrid to Discrete will change nothing in this regard, as all external outputs are wired to discrete GPU. Old Dell Precision 7000 devices had an option in BIOS to route all video outputs to iGPU. I never saw a similar option in Lenovo ThinkPad P-series or HP ZBook devices.

[FlashWolf]

22 hours ago, saperkus said:

That's the reason why Dell developed the CAMM modules... This is not a problem, but a platform limitation. Both Lenovo ThinkPad P16 and HP ZBook Fury 16 G9 are affected. With DDR5, we came to limits of SO-DIMM standard. These limits are not so apparent with two SO-DIMM slots devices, but four SO-DIMM slots requires longer routes, which effectively limits the maximum performance. Additionally, 2 Rank modules (32GB) will reduce maximum speed to 3600MHz. In general, if you are using up to 4x8GB, 4x16GB, 2x32GB RAM modules and you have not mixed modules form different vendors (in majority of cases), then you should get 4000MHz. If you have installed 3x32GB or 4x32GB, then maximum speed will be 3600MHz. And if you mix 1 Rank (8GB, 16GB) and 2 Rank (32GB) modules, then you may end up with 2000MHz...

 

And for your information, DDR4-3200 is also affected by this issue (I have verified it on HP ZBook Fury 15 G8). If you mix modules or use an unsupported configuration like 2x16GB + 2x8GB, then speeds will drop to 2933MHz.

 

You should avoid any non-HP branded docks... WD19DCS has a custom charging implementation, which can be utilized only on Dell Precision 7000 Series devices. It can deliver 130W for other Dell devices (another custom implementation) and 90W for non-Dell devices. TB15 is a vile thing with a hardware flaw. Dell recalled it back in 2016. You should scrap it ASAP.

 

Oh, this issue. I think, I first saw it back in 2014 or 2015 with HP ZBook 17 G1... It can have a different "flavors". Screen could be blinking or device will simply stop recognizing external displays. I have experienced it few weeks ago - last time on HP ZBook Fury 15 G8. There was a dock with two external displays connected to it. When only one display was powered on, then screen was blinking and artifacts were visible on the display. But, when I have turned out second display, issue was gone. You need to change display topology (e.g. use more/less displays than usual) - this should force the device to reinitialize the video. You can also simply connect directly one display, which previously was never connected to the device. This should also do the trick.

 

And switching from Hybrid to Discrete will change nothing in this regard, as all external outputs are wired to discrete GPU. Old Dell Precision 7000 devices had an option in BIOS to route all video outputs to iGPU. I never saw a similar option in Lenovo ThinkPad P-series or HP ZBook devices.

 

Perfect, thanks for your informations, they're really useful!

in the meanwhile i also wrote to the hp support but their help isnt really useful for me, they only told me that i need to put the dimms in the correct channels and so on... but not that the maximum speed is 4000mhz due to that so dimm limitation... the good thing at least is that hp support responds very fast!

 

but i found a security flaw in all 4 of our hp zbook fury g9 notebooks, we've just checked the automatic bitlocker function in windows 11 security center (under Settings), it says hardware encryption is active. so far so good. but after looking under system information (with administrative privileges) under the section "Support for device encryption" it says not possible due to not allowed dma devices / bus.

in the windows event viewer list i find these entries:

 

The following DMA (Direct Memory Access) capable devices are not declared as protected from external access, which can block security features such as BitLocker automatic device encryption:

ISA Bridge:
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7A8D (Intel(R) LPC Controller/eSPI Controller - 7A8D)

PCI-to-PCI Bridge:
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7AB0 (Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #9 - 7AB0)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Upstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7ABD (Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #6 - 7ABD)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7AC8 (Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #25 - 7AC8)
 

So, windows 11 says in the security center that the hard drives are encrypted but according to the system info and the event viewer its not. researching shows me that somehow the used dma devices in the new zbooks are not whitelisted in microsofts database?

does some of you have any clue about this topic?

 

[saperkus]

18 minutes ago, FlashWolf said:

but i found a security flaw in all 4 of our hp zbook fury g9 notebooks, we've just checked the automatic bitlocker function in windows 11 security center (under Settings), it says hardware encryption is active. so far so good. but after looking under system information (with administrative privileges) under the section "Support for device encryption" it says not possible due to not allowed dma devices / bus.

in the windows event viewer list i find these entries:

 

The following DMA (Direct Memory Access) capable devices are not declared as protected from external access, which can block security features such as BitLocker automatic device encryption:

ISA Bridge:
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7A8D (Intel(R) LPC Controller/eSPI Controller - 7A8D)

PCI-to-PCI Bridge:
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7AB0 (Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #9 - 7AB0)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Upstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7ABD (Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #6 - 7ABD)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7AC8 (Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #25 - 7AC8)
 

So, windows 11 says in the security center that the hard drives are encrypted but according to the system info and the event viewer its not. researching shows me that somehow the used dma devices in the new zbooks are not whitelisted in microsofts database?

does some of you have any clue about this topic?

Bitlocker is not my forte, so I cannot help much there. I was never a fan of SED (Self-Encrypted) disks, due to some vulnerabilities and thus I have some experience with software encryption only. There are two settings in the BIOS, which affects DMA on the device. First one is DMA protection and second configures what should be protected. You can try to disable it and check if this change anything or enable and limit support for Thunderbolt devices only/all PCIe devices.

[Snoflo]

Just an update: HP replaced both the motherboard and trackpad on my unit. It has solved all of the issues I was having. I haven't noticed screen flickering at any point since getting the unit. 

[fp23]

Thanks for your update.

 

Do you still have fan issues, tough?

[Easa]

So, throughout this February, I had an opportunity to use this evaluation unit. Configuration i9-12950HX / A4500 / 32GB / 2TB / 4K DreamColor 120Hz / Premium KBD Backlit / SmartCard / FP / NoWWAN.

 

 

Needless to say, I had a mixed experience. To sum it up, starting with the good:

 

• It has probably the best screen that I ever experienced on laptop in the last 10 years. 3840x2400@120Hz, great colors, wonderful and even backlight, no bleeding, just perfect for both work and gaming usage. 16:10 is a godsend.
• Audio quality is top notch, speakers ale clean, crisp, even got bass. Definitely best sounding workstation that I ever had the opportunity to test, even among the multimedia laptops it sounds good. 
• Keyboard feels very precise, durable and just expensive by its mechanical feeling, but the size and layout is something that I would need to accomodate to. I made a lot of mistakes during fast typing.
• Touchpad, both by surface and buttons, is flawless. Fast, precise, nothing wrong to say here.
• Despite its bulky appearance, it is definitely more compact than my old Zbook 15 G1. Must be the thin bezels. 
• It can actually cool itself within normal temperatures of 70-85°C, not staying at 100°C the whole time. Vaporforce just works, and with some additional tweaking (repasting and repadding) the cooling could be even better. I was not allowed to disassemble the machine.

 

There are downsides though:

 

• My unit capped the CPU power at 95W, but I suspect this to be an issue with the factory W10 image. I updated the drivers and BIOS, but nothing changed. Still varied between 55-95W, with one ocassional jump to 99W that I only managed to do once. This means that CB R23 results were around 17200-18000 points. On the low side for this CPU, like the Precisions.
• Similar to CPU, the A4500 GPU was capped to 90W, could not go past that. What is interesting, is that even during peak CPU+GPU load, the GPU temperature was only around 62-64°C. There definitely is a headroom for more power. GPU reached 7700 points in Superposition 4K, around 25k in FireStrike Graphics and 9100 points in Time Spy Graphics.
• I still dont get why the heck do they use a 230W PSU. Only the already bottlenecked 90W+90W CPU/GPU combo pulls 180-190W of power, not counting the hungry panel, WLAN, PCH and peripherals. It is just not enough. At least 280W, better yet, 300W PSU would be adequate solution for this laptop.
• The fans behave quite good, no ramping up and down, but they run most of the time. And they have that turbine sound signature during heavy load.
• The bottom cover was not nearly as nice fitted to the palmrest as they used to on the older units. Also, the sliding door was wobbly in the middle, which caused annoying noise upon putting the unit to hard surface like table. Similar to flapping a sheet metal in hand. Not something you would want in laptop for this price. The other parts of the body were rock solid though.
• DRAM and M.2 units are covered by EMI shields, which are then taped to chassis or heatsink by mylar tape. I like open spaces, not this, it will look bad after first disassembly. 

 

Overall, I still think its a good workstation, but it just has some flaws that will need to be adressed, and I hope that the G10 with Raptor Lake and Ada Lovelace GPUs will be more refined. Something like A3500 Ada (speculated TDP 100W) could be a better fit for this machine, as it will go practically full power without bottleneck, retaining the raw power of A4500 Ampere. I am still in the market for a new workstation later this year, and the Fury G10 is #1 candidate for now, but I will probably stick to something like i7-13850HX or so (i see no point in i9) and +- 100W GPU, i.e. the lowest one that will be available with VaporForce. 

 

 

 

 

[Easa]

Enclosing some photographs so you can see what my rant is about.

 

[fp23]

Thanks for your review!

 

It's a shame to see how they conceived the fan's vent. They are really misplaced, in my opinion.

 

They probably won't redesign the case for the next G10 model, so let's hope they fix the PSU, at least.

[Easa]

9 hours ago, fp23 said:

Thanks for your review!

 

It's a shame to see how they conceived the fan's vent. They are really misplaced, in my opinion.

 

They probably won't redesign the case for the next G10 model, so let's hope they fix the PSU, at least.

 

Well, I would also like it more if they did it in a way the ThinkPad P16 chassis is done, but the cooling is capable on this machine, cannot argue with that. Being a pessimist myself, I think that the only thing they will do is stuff new CPU & GPU inside. 

 

PS: A bit OT, but look at the "new" Asus ExpertBook B6 Flip. I do not like Asus laptops in general, but thats one perfect laptop, both by internal & external design. And the connectivity options! If they can do it in this price point like this, I wonder why HP just cannot do better, when they can go three times up in cost. 

[fp23]

2 hours ago, Easa said:

 

Well, I would also like it more if they did it in a way the ThinkPad P16 chassis is done, but the cooling is capable on this machine, cannot argue with that. Being a pessimist myself, I think that the only thing they will do is stuff new CPU & GPU inside. 

 

PS: A bit OT, but look at the "new" Asus ExpertBook B6 Flip. I do not like Asus laptops in general, but thats one perfect laptop, both by internal & external design. And the connectivity options! If they can do it in this price point like this, I wonder why HP just cannot do better, when they can go three times up in cost. 

 

Thanks for your suggestion. Not a fan too, but it looks like a good alternative per Notebookcheck: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ExpertBook-B6-Flip-review-Beefy-workstation-convertible-with-stylus.681663.0.html#toc-8. Also, they have been primarily inspired by Lenovo's workstations for their case/cooling design:

 

I will probably wait a bit to see what HP has in store for the G10 generation, but it's unlikely they will change the design, so the fans will still be misplaced to have a proper cooling for me.

 

Of course, Lenovo's ThinkPad P16 is also a great alternative. However, not having an ethernet port and 4G/5G connectivity is a no-go for me. Perhaps the next generation this year will be better.

[fp23]

Here is the new generation HP ZBook Fury G10: https://www.hp.com/us-en/workstations/zbook-fury.html

[Easa]

So, exactly as I thought. Nothing changed, except for the CPU&GPU. Sad.

[fp23]

11 hours ago, Easa said:

So, exactly as I thought. Nothing changed, except for the CPU&GPU. Sad.

Indeed, it was expected. They tend to change the design every two generations.

 

However, HP ZBook Power G10 will be available with an AMD CPU: https://www.hp.com/us-en/workstations/zbook-power.html

[the_professor]

Seems HP ditched the Z logo for the G10 series and went back to the classic HP logo. It's quite a shame as I found it a cool distinguisher from the Elitebooks and all the consumer models.

 

Anyway, I'm mainly looking at the 16" studio and it seems just a minor spec bump compared to G9. They offer the gorgeous DreamColor matte screen but otherwise the machine is quite unremarkable.

[Easa]

I somehow expected this to happen, but its sad anyways. I liked the previous logo for the exact same reasons. 

[Researcher]

When will the Fury16G10 available? The sealler told me that it should be someday late spring. Can wait for G10.

[Easa]

Guys, if anybody here can do a measurement, will M.2 slot (the upper one) on G9/G10 accept M.2 22110 (110mm) SSD? I have a NOS Optane 905p that I would like to use. 

[Researcher]

5 hours ago, Easa said:

Guys, if anybody here can do a measurement, will M.2 slot (the upper one) on G9/G10 accept M.2 22110 (110mm) SSD? I have a NOS Optane 905p that I would like to use. 

G9 only supports 2280. No idea about G10. But I suppose it cannot accept 22110.

[Ionising_Radiation]

At a first glance, the new ZBook Furies look very favourable compared to the equivalent Dell Precision 7680 and 7780. 

 

The biggest issue for me is price; when I last checked, HP's laptops were easily 50% more expensive than Dell's and it is hard justifying this sort of price increase.

I still want to see where it goes, though, because I much prefer HP's all-metal design, straightforward keyboard layout, real trackpad buttons, high-quality speakers... And perhaps most importantly, the fact that HP offers a 4K-class, 16:10, high-refresh-rate, deep-colour, wide-gamut display (whereas even the 7680 is still stuck with a 1920×1200 60 Hz) is very enticing indeed. 

[fp23]

By reading comments on the dedicated 7680/7780 sections, ZBook laptops seem to be better at fan management/noise, although they are not perfect due to the chassis design choice.

 

HP ZBook laptops also offer WWAN upgrades, whereas 7680/7780 do not, and it's a deal breaker to me for a workstation nowadays.

[saperkus]

On 4/30/2023 at 8:35 AM, fp23 said:

HP ZBook laptops also offer WWAN upgrades, whereas 7680/7780 do not, and it's a deal breaker to me for a workstation nowadays.

This depends. HP offers two versions of motherboards - WWAN ready and no WWAN. In the later, device do not have M.2 port and SIM slot on the motherboard, so it's physically impossible to install it later. It's always a good practice to check, which type of the motherboard the device has.

 

On 4/29/2023 at 9:49 PM, Ionising_Radiation said:

And perhaps most importantly, the fact that HP offers a 4K-class, 16:10, high-refresh-rate, deep-colour, wide-gamut display (whereas even the 7680 is still stuck with a 1920×1200 60 Hz) is very enticing indeed. 

Years ago HP began cooperation with DreamWorks. The results of this cooperation are DreamColor displays, which you've mentioned.

 

On 4/22/2023 at 8:17 AM, Researcher said:

When will the Fury16G10 available? The sealler told me that it should be someday late spring. Can wait for G10.

HP released the QuickSpecs of the device, so it is most likely already released.

 

https://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c08580055

 

It could be, that device is currently available for bulk orders and it will take a few weeks before it will be available on the retail market (or configurable at HP Site).

[1610ftw]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:13 PM, Easa said:

Guys, if anybody here can do a measurement, will M.2 slot (the upper one) on G9/G10 accept M.2 22110 (110mm) SSD? I have a NOS Optane 905p that I would like to use. 

 

I guess they could fit a set of longer slots in a Zbook 18 G10 that could also come with a nice and still relatively compact 330W GAN power supply and improved CPU, GPU and total system power limits but I doubt we will see such a beast.

 

Fully agree about the 230W power supply in the Zbook 16 G9 by the way - it is too small and too low in power and often seems to be close to cooking itself - I usually cool it with an additional fan on my Zbook 17 G5 as it gets so hot.

 

Coming back to the 22110 form factor was there ever a laptop that could hold these SSDs except for the MSI GT75?

 

Not to my knowledge and in the GT75 it was more like a means to use some space left over from a second GPU slot of previous generations and not a "normal" design decision: