jaybee83

12 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Are you planning to watercool your 5090?

7 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

Very nice!  Top three on air....boom!

 

 

I'm pretty sure @jaybee83 doesn't watercool his cards. I think I asked him before and the answer was no.

 

 

 

 

 

correct, when it comes to gpus im pretty boring, air cooling only for me. thats why i went for the suprim to get the best air cooler 🙂

btw GOOD NEWS GAIZ! i hit 8000 STABLE on one of the kits yeeeehaw! so this is indeed a very interesting finding, were getting a spread of at least 600 MT/s between the worst and best performing kit on the same cpu + mobo. u basically never see any reviewers doing this, they either bin cpus (seldom) or mobos (mostly). 

so this is one of the g.skill 8000 kits, the one running at 1.30V for the XMP profile. i also tried 8100 and it booted but then hang during the windows login screen. dont matter tho, ill take 8000! 

so this leaves 3 kits still to be tested, two out of which are already on their way to me.

stay tuned!

here the current standings:

8000 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048E24GX2-TZ5RK 1.30V (newer SKU) = 7600 / 7800 / 8000 / 8100 (Windows Login)

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048F24GX2-TZ5RK 1.35V (older SKU)

G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO RGB F5-8000J4048G24GX2-TZ5NR Kit 1 = 7600 (1%)

G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO RGB F5-8000J4048G24GX2-TZ5NR Kit 2

Patriot Memory PVXR548G80C38K = 7600 / 7800 (3%)

Kingston Fury KF580C36RLAK2-48

Lexar ARES Gen2 RGB LD5U24G80C40BR-RGD = 7600 (20%)

8200 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8200J4052F24GX2-TZ5RK = 7600 / 7800 (97%)

8400 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB SP-8400J4052G24GX2-TZ5RK = 7600 / 7800 (1%)

15 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

16GB modules or 24GB? The 24GB modules suck on the Gene. They work perfectly on the generation newer Master. If you are testing only 24GB modules I am not surprised. If you want that you're probably going to need to get an X870E motherboard to find the appropriate attention to it at the firmware level. The Gene has a BIOS update intended to support 24GB modules, but using them still sucks in terms of performance and stability. I really do not believe it is a hardware issue, just lack of proper attention to firmware.

all kits im testing are 24GB modules. and yes ofc, theres no hardware issue, everything works as intended. its likely optimizations on the firmware level as u mentioned, with some tubtimings tuned a bit differently on each kit.

i just saw that asus dropped a new bios with "optimizations for high storage RAM sticks" 😄 not sure if 24GB counts though, they likely mean 32GB+ modules.

2 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I really think part of what you are finding is poor firmware support for the 24GB modules. EOL platforms (Intel and AMD) are never going to get the level of firmware support they deserve because the expectation is for everyone to waste money on a new motherboard. I think it is deliberate and orchestrated. The 24GB modules also do not work well on Intel unless the motherboard OEM gives it the effort needed.

ouch, ure not gonna like this bro fox, the first Neo kit errored out right away at 7600. i reran the test and same result 😅

Notes:

Striked through: Out of the race

Blue: current champ

Percentage in parenthesis: how far did the stress test go before it errored out

8000 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048E24GX2-TZ5RK 1.30V (newer SKU)

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048F24GX2-TZ5RK 1.35V (older SKU)

G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO RGB F5-8000J4048G24GX2-TZ5NR Kit 1 = 7600 (1%)

G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO RGB F5-8000J4048G24GX2-TZ5NR Kit 2

Patriot Memory PVXR548G80C38K = 7600 / 7800 (3%)

Kingston Fury KF580C36RLAK2-48

Lexar ARES Gen2 RGB LD5U24G80C40BR-RGD = 7600 (20%)

8200 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8200J4052F24GX2-TZ5RK = 7600 / 7800 (97%)

8400 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB SP-8400J4052G24GX2-TZ5RK = 7600 / 7800 (1%)

15 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Hey Brother @jaybee83 have you tried any of this stuff yet? You get it straight from Splave out of Austin, TX.

 

https://splavepc.com/

 

Essentially the same performance as KPx and Duronaut. The KPx application had been in use a week or so. The Splave One and Duronaut were fresh applications. The Splave one did not work as well with a manual spread. I redid it with a line down the middle and let the waterblock spread it.

 

Bottom line: it doesn't matter which one you choose. Use what you have. If the Duronaut is actually more durable (as claimed) it may be the better long-term choice.

huh! first time ive heard of that paste! seems to perform in the upper echelons, nice 🙂 so far im pretty happy with duronaut, especially the price point is without competition tbh. also still got a bunch of GC extreme and kryonaut, next to the gallinstan and conductonaut extreme i recently bought. for now im all pasted out 😄 

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It is puzzling to me that anyone would pay $1,000 USD for an MSI Godlike or ASUS Extreme motherboard. Other than a couple of cheap to make gadgets and gimmicks they offer little or nothing and seem to be a total waste of money, especially on a Ryzen build. It applies to Intel as well. Just a scam to milk more money from those easily influenced by marketing rhetoric I think.

 

https://www.overclock.net/posts/29469837/

well....as in most cases, "it depends" 😄 i for one am very happy about the crazy storage support that the extreme provides, without it i wouldnt have been able to fully stretch my SSD legs based on the high capacity needs that i have. like 99% of the other AM5 boards dont have these capabilities or have them with compromises (i.e. the need to dial down the primary gpu slot). 

but i agree that in 99% of use cases, godlike / extreme mobos are definitely not needed, especially if all one does is gaming!

alright boiz, the RAM kit binning continues. ive finished another two kits, the G. Skill DDR5-8400 and the Patriot DDR5-8000. Although both managed to pass 7600, theyre out of the race because 7800 errored out quite quickly in both cases. Thus far, the G.Skill 8200 kit is by far the strongest contendor, likely capable of getting 7800 stable with a few more adjustments.

We also have an additional contender now, bringing the total to 10(!) kits, including the Teamgroup kit im already sporting: turns out the shop i ordered from had the Trident Z5 Neo 32GB 8000 kit labeled incorrectly as the 48GB kit, so i guess i get to compare both the 2x24 and 2x16gb kits 😄 should be interesting after what bro @Mr. Fox mentioned!

edit: nevermind LOL. turns out im actually gonna end up with TWO 2x24GB DDR5-8000 Trident Z5 NEO kits 😄 heres the gist: i was using a price search engine to determine which kits and shops i would utilize. the link for the 2x24GB kit led to the shop's listing of the 2x16GB kit which i accidentally then ordered. but in the end they did send me the 2x24GB kit, after all 😄 after i send the order, i separately ordered the 2x24GB kit at another shop, so here we are: two identical kits hahaha. doesnt matter, ill still test them and see whats up 🙂 sorry for the confusion guys, it got a bit messed up 😛 

Notes:

Striked through: Out of the race

Blue: current champ

Percentage in parenthesis: how far did the stress test go before it errored out

8000 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048E24GX2-TZ5RK 1.30V (newer SKU)

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048F24GX2-TZ5RK 1.35V (older SKU)

G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO RGB F5-8000J4048G24GX2-TZ5NR Kit 1

G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO RGB F5-8000J4048G24GX2-TZ5NR Kit 2

Patriot Memory PVXR548G80C38K = 7600 / 7800 (3%)

Kingston Fury KF580C36RLAK2-48

Lexar ARES Gen2 RGB LD5U24G80C40BR-RGD = 7600 (20%)

8200 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8200J4052F24GX2-TZ5RK = 7600 / 7800 (97%)

8400 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB SP-8400J4052G24GX2-TZ5RK = 7600 / 7800 (1%)

first two ram kits done with testing, unfortunately only these two made the delivery today. but tomorrow should bring along many more packages 🙂 already seeing a bit of a spread, makes me hopeful!

so the Lexar kit is the first to drop out of the race, was unstable at 7600. the G.Skill 8200 kit made it through 7600 but errored out at 7800 riiiiight at the very end of the stress test. more to come!

8000 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048E24GX2-TZ5RK 1.30V (newer SKU)

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048F24GX2-TZ5RK 1.35V (older SKU)

G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO RGB F5-8000J4048G24GX2-TZ5NR

Patriot Memory PVXR548G80C38K

Kingston Fury KF580C36RLAK2-48

Lexar ARES Gen2 RGB LD5U24G80C40BR-RGD = 7600

8200 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8200J4052F24GX2-TZ5RK = 7600 / 7800

8400 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB SP-8400J4052G24GX2-TZ5RK

22 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Good. That makes me happy. I hated CAMM2 as soon as I saw it and never wanted it in the first place. I hope the idea gets scrapped. More change merely for the sake of change, and only because imbeciles are making all of the decisions. I wish they would burn their calories on something good and necessary and stop inventing new crap for people to be forced into buying because their old parts will no longer fit. Idiots.

depends. although im not a big fan of the overall form factor with CAMM2, i was hoping for some advantages in terms of signaling / attainable DDR5 speeds. if it really turns out that CAMM2 provides a performance advantage ill go for it for sure, function over form. but as long as traditional sticks can keep up or outperform it, then absolutely, no need for change just for the sake of it!

soooo, looks like 6 or 7 out of the 8 RAM kits i ordered will already be arriving today, nice! will keep u guys posted 🙂 

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Whoa! Go big or go home! 🤣

right, says the one whos already gone through 6 kits 😄 

and hey, its all bro @Mr. Fox fault, he put silly ideas into my head! 😛 

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

Be sure to also test BIOS defaults. In addition to having trouble booting with BIOS defaults with a few Intel kits, many were not even error free running with BIOS defaults. Once I stopped trying and only bought EXPO kits designed for AMD things got a lot easier.

yep ive actually had this happen on my current kit 😄 the JEDEC profile for my previous 7950X at bios defaults with this TeamGroup kit was at 5200 Mhz and ran error free in TM5 anta777 absolut profile. but now with the 9950X3D the bios defaults to 5600 Mhz and that profile does not run error free! soo my "stock" bios profile is actually underclocked to 5200 mhz on this kit 😛 

2 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Interesting that you purchased some Intel XMP kits instead of exclusively EXPO. I have had poor results attempting to use XMP memory on AMD. Even booting using the default memory profile has been hit or miss and custom tuning a bit more cumbersome. Something is different at the firmware level.

 

Look forward to seeing your results.

yep i turned a blind eye on XMP vs EXPO on purpose, just wanted to let the test results do the talking and see what ill get 🙂 

ill ignore the preset profiles anyways and do custom tuning either way, so might as well cast a wide net!

aight boiz, i just ordered 8 different RAM Kits, lets get this binning party started 😄 

all of them 8000+ at 2x24GB, just cant go back to 2x16GB kits anymore even if they might turn out a bit faster in the end. capacity first! 🙂 

Ordered from 4 reputable shops so i can be sure there wont be any hassle with regards to returns.

These are the kits I ordered:

8000 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048E24GX2-TZ5RK 1.30V (newer SKU)

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8000J4048F24GX2-TZ5RK 1.35V (older SKU)

G.Skill Trident Z5 NEO RGB F5-8000J4048G24GX2-TZ5NR

Patriot Memory PVXR548G80C38K

Kingston Fury KF580C36RLAK2-48

Lexar ARES Gen2 RGB LD5U24G80C40BR-RGD

8200 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB F5-8200J4052F24GX2-TZ5RK

8400 Mhz

G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB SP-8400J4052G24GX2-TZ5RK

i left out any kits that didnt offer black versions (gold / silver / white aint my thing) and also skipped CKD kits (currently not supported on AM5).

i have a RAM profile saved with max voltages and loose timings, so will just test that and check what the highest attainable frequency is for each kit, so should go pretty fast. ill start at 7600, since my current setup can already do 7400 stable.

my current RAM kit for context: TeamGroup T-Force DELTA RGB FF3D548G8200HC38EDC01 8200 Mhz 2x24 GB

while not addressing the source of the problem, still interesting stuff nonetheless. especially coming from Seasonic, who are like the Noctua of PSUs in terms of competence and trustworthiness 🙂 

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/power-supplies/seasonics-next-generation-prime-psus-to-will-try-to-stop-connectors-from-melting

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Coil whine and that weird electrical noise. This is like my bud's 5090 FE exactly except frame / load changes would seesaw and scale up and down. Still not as bad as my 3090 FE.

 

You could give me a 5090 FE or one of these 6000 cards, and if it sounded anything like this, it would be insta sold and marked as pure trash in my book.

 

 

 

 

not sure if thats purely coil whine though, might also be coming from unevenly balanced fans scratching at the fins. 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

The end game is obviously a system that looks like it stepped right out of Cyberpujnk / Blade Runner with every component neon lights 'esque lit up.

 

Was @prema able to actually enable 13th gen and/or 14th gen support on the NH55?

well we need some testing hardware first 😉 

20 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I'm surprised nobody at oc.net has jumped on those CPUs and the motherboard combo. They must be scared because of the recent marketplace fraud outbreak, but maybe the guy that bought that one part being first to go out on a limb will break the ice. A number of PMs with interest. All of the CPUs are better than average samples, they just were not my best samples. Brother @Clamibot got one of them. The person that bought the white Apex got the other one.

id actually be highly interested in one of those cpus for my lady's machine. only issue being that i need one with iGPU enabled, so no dice unfortunately.

6 hours ago, Papusan said:

Innovation at it's best. When aRGB ain't enough to trick you into pay more. Same as with modern AIOs. A small screen on everything to increase the prices.

 

V-Color puts displays on memory modules tomshardware.com

 

Of course, screens on the side of memory modules add to the cost, but since they represent a unique feature, enthusiasts will likely be willing to pay extra to have it.

 

 

ah yes, first RGB and now displays. might as well install an electric heater on the RAM 😄 

21 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

As expected. MSI take an Asus. But not a Lighning card. But still with Gold coating to try increase profits further. How much will MSI lift the prices above the vanilla Suprim? $500 ?

 

A great price point would be around $3800 to maximize greed. Or are $4000 too much bro @Mr. Fox😎

 

MSI unveils GeForce RTX 5090 SUPRIM TITANIUM EDITION

 

omg, i dont even know where to start with this, just so many things that went wrong here:

1) why even bother changing the Suprim? The design is simple, industrial, non-gamery looking.

2) how in heck did they make the jump from gold-plated to "Titanium" name rebranding? WTH, titanium is silver-ish looking,

3) this doesnt even look like regular gold plating. this has some kinda weird funky caleidoscope effect...

what did they DO?! 😄 

7 hours ago, Reciever said:

I went ahead and bought an ElmorLabs EVC2SE module. I am sure I am a far and away from a competent soldering technician, however I am comfortable with the iron I have.

 

550w on chilled air is probably the max I would use for a daily vbios but now I want to see how far I can take card.  Still using cheap-o generic pads and the Kryonaught is on its dozenth or so re-application.

 

I can probably add a couple of 900w server PSU's just to split up the load but more importantly reduce the banshee shrieks those PSU's can produce.

 

No idea when the module will show up at this point but I'll keep you guys in the loop as I get more updates...

 

 

niiiiiice.... no worries, if anything blows up here we will aplaud your efforts, much respect! 🙂 

16 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Ah ha! You were being sarcastic. I love sarcasm. Yeah, I can hardly wait to buy my next FE GPU. (Yes, more sarcasm, plus there can be no next without a first. I do not intend for there to be one.)

 

Size is subjective. Those two SFF builds I did in the past year or so really illustrated how relative the perception can be. I was amazed by how much performance fit into a midget-sized package. But, to everyone else it was like, "Huh? What? Small? That's not small. It's just not as massive as your other computers." The way I see it is, if I can hold onto it and walk across the room with it tucked under one arm or move it somewhere else without having to use both hands to wrangle it, then to me it's SFF.

tru i feel that, not a big fan of FEs either. but with the 6000 pro there arent any AIB cards. i wonder if the PCB would be similar enough to the 5090 that a waterblock could fit? now that would be quite the beast!

2 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Small and densely packed jigsaw puzzle computers make me angry. I really do not care for SFF. Kind of like sitting in the middle seat on a 4-hour flight between two extra-fat and sweaty people that can't fit into the seat space allocated. Even the SFF builds I have done were 'too big' for SFF fanboys. Those that are too big can also be frustrating. O11D XL size is near perfect.

i was talking about the gpu not the SFF build 😄 omg u with such a small case is like that classic cartoon of a big mountain of a man getting out of a tiny beetle haha

On 5/15/2025 at 6:18 AM, tps3443 said:

DOOM Dark Ages is very fun! It is on Game Pass for free with subscription! 
 

 

any crashing issues with it yet? ive heard lots of user reports with huge issues of stability, regardless of setup. its definitely on my playlist, although i havent come around to Eternal & Ancient Gods yet. so i guess once i get to Dark Ages, itll have shed its initial instability issues. at least i hope so 😄 

On 5/15/2025 at 6:21 AM, johnksss said:

It also came with my Astral and my laptop. Plus a few other games I need to get installed.

ah the stress of having too many games and too little time to play them 😛 haha

On 5/15/2025 at 6:42 AM, electrosoft said:

Has anyone played Clair Obscur: Expedition 33? It seems to be getting a lot of attention and pretty good reviews.

 

I'm taking a break from Fallout 76 for a bit so that opens up another slot for game play to go along with WoW.

 

 

Expedition 33 is blowing up here in europe, completely insane how everyone is glazing over it. all those reviews and user reports have me intrigued, although im usually not interested in such "anime style" games. if u try please report back on what u think! in any case quite impressive that such a small team could have such a big success. just goes to show that stupidly pumping enormous amounts of money into the nth iteration of the same idea (i.e. battle royals or hero arena shooters) does not guarantee success!

15 hours ago, electrosoft said:

SFF build with the 6000....so nice....

 

 

 

Benchmarks w/ and w/o OC......

 

niiice so it IS indeed overclockable hm? thats good to hear! sooooo, who of us is gonna get one of those? 😛 cmon bro @Mr. Fox i can already see you secretly checking your bank account! 😄 

10 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I don't need it. I just today received a brand new 3080 from Israel that has more of them for under $350. These are like what they use in servers so they're a bit loud and hot, but I can fix that. An aftermarket backplate and waterblock will do the trick. This is indeed brand new and it shipped in generic whitebox type of packaging as though it was never intended for retail consumer distribution. Works like a normal 3080 though. Just stripped down with a crappy blower cooler. They've got more old stock on hand.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/187160768672

 

and to think what these cards cost during the pandemic area, holy guacamole....

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I got rid of the worthless "server-grade thermal conductive gel" in short order on the 9070 XT Elite. It was junk. And, it also is not "gel" at all. It is a putty that is dry and not very sticky. I replaced it with 1.0mm 13 w/mK pads, put Duronaut on the core and added 3.0mm pad covering the back of the GPU. Brought down all temps between 5° and 10°C depending on what part(s) you are measuring. Hotspot and memory junction temps are no longer at or above 90°C as they were with the stock trash.

---

@jaybee83 here are some settings you can mess with for 24GB modules. (Note that they are slower overall than 16GB modules at a given clock speed, same as Intel. 24GB need looser timings than 16GB modules, so you only gain with higher clock speeds, not tighter timings. Two steps forward, one step backward.) 

 These are stable settings. Runs TM5 without error until the modules hit 60°C  on air and error out.

duuude 8400 LOL

time for me to get crackin on binning ram kits. ill likely start by the end of the month 🙂 

@tps3443@electrosoft those are some crazy clocks for D2D OC settings. and @electrosoft dude u havent even maxxed out ur voltage slider! 😄 

with those differences in our OC at +100-200 Mhz higher Core clocks for u guys it seems that higher vcore cards do indeed hit higher stable overclocks. either that or the games / stability tests u guys are using are much lighter than mine 😄 or a combination of both haha.

8 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I don’t know why it may be flawed. I just know that’s how everyone else gets/compares their baked in VFcurve on their GB202 die.

 

What application are you going by to show these max clocks?
 

Run steel nomad, and tell me your GPU voltage range when he’s driving through the gate on his hover bike. Reset your card to default clocks.

any gpu tuning software u prefer, be it PX1, MSI AB, GPU Tweak, etc. and enable locked max boost, thats it 🙂 

speaking of 5090 VCores,  i dont think ive seen ANY other card with as low as a peak as mine. absolute max i can see at idle and low temps is 1.025V. but under load i would never even see 1.02, 1.015 is as good as it gets.

so guys, out of curiosity: whats the highest D2D OC u can get on your cards with a given max VCore? were talking maxed out PL and voltage sliders here and max boost clocks shown at 30C core temp at idle.

mine would be 3240 Mhz at 1.025V (max. PL, max. voltage slider, gpu temp 30C).

welp boiz i finished retesting Suprim Perf. / PNY Epic-X / Gigabyte Master / GIgabyte Master ICE vbios versions, this time with shorter, bursty benchmark runs.

Suprim came in last, with the PNY second to last. Master ICE often had the edge over the regular Master vbios, but its somehow more....volatile? like id have to rerun a bench several times to get that "good" score. with the regular Master, its just flash and forget, provides good scores with every run. so id say the Master is the overall most rounded vbios it seems, whereas if one is out for the best possible scores the Master ICE is a tad bit higher in scores (were mostly talking less than 1%, but sometimes up to 2-3%. but again, very volatlie and difficult to reproduce reliably).

and with those benchmark scores no wonder the guys over at overclock.net are swooning over it 😄

ill test run the Master vbios for a bit now. lately ive been having stuttering issues while gaming ever since switching over to the PNY vbios. hoping this will run more smoothly.

just thought id let you guys now, before anyone is disappointed with the PNY vbios 🙂 

as for the Suprim vbios...like, wth MSI?! with the 4090 it was basically the same: hardwarewise they know their stuff, cooling is awesome, same with fan noise/curves, power delivery but when it comes to vbios theyre like second fiddle....

Gigabyte Master ICE 10-Mar-2025 (274453).rom Gigabyte Master 22-Feb-2025 (273784).rom

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

One feature that I LOVE to pieces on the Apex is this new Q-Dashboard screen. You can interactively click through all of the attached devices, see what is connected to them, etc. It is stinking awesome. I also like that you can change the display resolution in the BIOS to FHD instead of the lower default resolution.

 

 

daaaaaaaamn, now THATS a feature id want across all motherboards, no matter the socket! i am annoyed by the fact that theyre stonewalling the upgrade to FHD resolution in Bios and limiting that feature to X870 boards. i guess theres not enough other "features" to distinguish X870 from X670, so for now theyre not planning to backport this to X670....meh

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

So, the X870E Apex is scheduled for delivery tomorrow.

 

 If it doesn't handle bifurcation on the PCIe slots the way I need it to then I will return it for a refund. I am pretty sure only one M.2 slot and DIMM.2 can be populated. Two of the motherboard M.2 slots must be ignored if you want PCIe X16 for the GPU. Same is true on the AORUS Master, but all of the slots can be used without gimping the GPU.

hm if thats true it would be a regression. on my board i can populate 4 out of the five M.2 slots without affecting the GPU (as i currently am doing with my storage setup).