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Haha - that is brutal :D To pull that off in this chassis is indeed something and 67C with 155W (ot is it 165W?) is very respectable!

After the warranty period is of course different. It is 3 years over here so that would be a rather long time.. It would indeed help if they did include peak power draw of the GPU and CPU and also highest combined power draw. That would explain a lot. As for your temperatures you could check what happens when you keep the GPU temperature at an average of ca. 60C or less in TimeSpy where you now have 67C in your latest run here: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/131773151 Just as a test with everything else being the same. Nvidia used to downclock quite aggressively in previous generations and lowering temperatures will probably get you a boost and a couple of hundred extra points in the GPU score.

I would assume that shunt modding up to 220W is pretty much safe when temperatures are kept in check and it should give most of the performance improvements. Still I doubt that it would go unnoticed with the manufacturer so it would void the warranty. As these laptops can also break for other reasons I would want to keep that in mind. That Vector is crazy indeed and probably not in anything close to stock condition, wonder if they managed to do all of that with the stock cooling solution and regular fans but I strongly doubt that: It is a shame that MSI still does not have QHD LED panels but then none of the other manufacturers has the MSI panel either so there seems to be some exclusivity involved here. The Raider also has an impressively tacky keyboard this gen which would make it an easy pass even with 4 memory slots:

By the way, video review from notebookcheck: He mentions that the Titan is of much higher build quality than the Asus Scar. I have to say that this would not even make me consider the Asus any more as I do not like that el cheapo feeling in a laptop that would be a bit less but not that much less than the Titan. In any case the 5070 Ti and the 5080 seem to be the GPUs to get for this generation, the 5090 is just too much and with 175 to 175W does not give a sufficient performance increase - it would need a TDP boost to at least 200W to make used of its otherwise superior hardware and preferably to 225W.

Shunt modding seems quite risky but indeed probably what this guy has been doing with his MSI Vector: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/54976166 I would not risk it for this kind of performance increase and prefer to have a warranty 🙂

This is still really impressive and very cool, good to see you at it again! I take it that this is a P870 chassis with vapor chamber, how are temps during your TimeSpy runs?

Haha - anemic, I like that :D Looks like the ones in my Raider and anemic is an apt description. I have heard worse but indeed the older Titans all had fuller sound. Best non-macbook laptop sound that I have heard in the last ten years was the Clevo X170 and that was by some margin. Understood about the baby steps and indeed 50 to 60mv undervolting is rather low.

Yep, sound looks improved indeed. Best 4K panel with LED will still be with the MSI Raider and Titan while Acer, Asus and Gigabyte offer QHD LEDs. Still your M18 has such good performance that this gen will probably be too early to see more than a 10 to 15% improvement.

That is prety cool! On previous Intel gens I usually had anywhere between 75 and 125mV undervolting so it would be interesting to see how things are for this gen.

Any reason except sound that you are consdering the Clevo instead of the new Alienware? Screen specs look similar to the Clevo but with a 300 instead of 240Hz refresh and from what it looks like you will get higher sustained power with the Alienware, too.

I thought that like MSI all Clevo bios were unlockeable so that undervolting would be supported but apparently not. That also means more heat than necessary which makes better fan control a must for me. Does Clevo have a useable fan control implementation in the X580 or do you control them by other means? In the X170 and P775 I am very happy with Clevo Fan Control https://github.com/djsubtronic/ClevoFanControl/releases but I somehow doubt that it will work with the X580! Good luck with those CSODIMMS - they seem to be the way to go for Arrow Lake laptops and I am currently waiting for 48GB modules as I do not really need 256GB but 128GB is not enough either.

Very cool to hear from an owner of the new Titan 18 - 4 SSD slots with up to 128GB memory might be tempting if I did not have an intense hatred for the blue accents on this one. With 200W sustained it will be interesting to hear how far you can go in CB R23 with and without undervolting. About the fans I agree that having them turn on and off is a big annoyance but if you use extreme performance mode then you can create your own fan curve in MSI center which indeed is a less than great piece of software with a look that I guess appeals to 12 year old wannabe gamers. Anyway, with your own fan curve you can let them run at a certain base speed at all times which makes for a smoother user experience and it is also better for memory, SSDs and chipset temperatures. Would be interesting to hear how good the new fans are - do they still run at the same speed between 1 and 25 or do they go down further? The new design with more blades was long overdue so this is great news!

Great to hear that you solved your bluescreen issue! Across multiple devices I have noticed that unless you put 4 of the same memory sticks in all slots those 4 slot designs are often lacking documentation about how to populate those slots. Luckily we can test everything with programs like AIDA64 but it should not be so difficult to give the customer instructions which slots to use in which order and/or what best to do with a given number of memory sticks. That SSD cooling solution does not seem to be well thought out at all. I wonder if anybody even tested it as I have a hard time believing that after some testing they would have come up with this. Why isn't it unified to improve cooling and share the load? How does it even differ from a user supplied NVME heat sink? How is it even much of a benefit in the first place when the SSDs seem to have zero airflow over these heatsinks - that surely can't be a good idea? Makes me want to get a spare bottom cover and do my own SSD cooling solution in case that I get the X580. In any case this is not that big of a deal really and I share your sentiment that this is a good one and for me it is the first Clevo that I consider since the X170 chassis. We will probably never get something like the X170 again but at least this is their first flagship BGA book design that gets the basics right.

I like the cooling concept but on the other hand it does not bode well for my 8TB WD SD for the PS5: It fit perfectly in the Raider 18 HX and it really runs pretty cool so it is a bit of a shame that I may have to get rid of it if I switch to the X580. According to XMG / Schenker it will take 4 double sided drives, I specifically asked for that. So that is good news for those of use that really have 4 double sided NVME drives to fill up all those slots. If you did not have those freezing issues before then it may indeed be because of the memory but there also seems to be something that keeps Schenker / XMG from launching the Key 18 model as it still isn't available for order on their website.

Very good to hear about the audio and the keyboard temps and layout! As you know I have not been much of a fan of the audio of the Raider and Titan 18 as I was still spoiled by earlier MSi and especially the X170. So great news that Clevo again offers proper audio quality. I also have to admit that it did not even occur to me that undervolting and overclocking could be an issue but I am glad it isn't. Is there some kind of control center again where the overclocking / undervolting and fan speed can be adjusted? I hope you can make some progress with memory. If it works out then 4x16GB also has the nice side effect that you have a good amount of capacity for just about everything outside of running specialized memory hungry applications on it. Up to 256GB is a massive amount of memory that is a fantastic option for people who may need it and it would be cool to be able to advertise that. I am really curious if we will have any issues with the new 64GB sticks. With the 4x48GB Crucial I never had any, that was an easy upgrade from 4x32GB.

I really like that you decided to get it so that I do not have to 😄 Great news about the improved cooling and I have to say that those 4 NVME and 4 memory slots look beautiful! From what I recall the keyboard should still be similar to the one in the X170? With the improved cooling really the only criticism that I have is that they have reduced connectivity to a new low. Also 37K CB R23 with 150W is really nice, as is the TimeSpy GPU score! Looking forward to hear what you have to say about the audio as you have a good frame of reference with the many laptops you have owned.

Not interested indeed to be able to push 300W into that 10900K but rather what it can do at about 200W which is where it counts in a (beefy) laptop. Memory temps will most probably be better than in mine as one of the big issues seems to be that the sticks are stacked and I also have 4 x 48GB which doesn't help. The ones closer to the motherboard get a lot hotter, I have seen over 100C for them! I have that pad, too but it is rather uncomfortable when typing and also it does not fit in the same backpack that I put my laptops in so it mostly stays home and currently gets used by my son with his laptop. Oh and my pad has got two big Noctua fans in it - nice and quiet but ugly 🙂

Very nice, looking forward to play with the 10900K 🙂 I also got a decent 10850K by the way but it is just too much for a laptop as it consumes about 15 to 20% more than the chip I got from @electrosoft. Mobile 50x prices are highway robbery right now with MSI, Asus, Razer and others and the Raider with the 4090 will be much better value for money, so I would keep it for a while. As I have rocked the Raider 18HX as my main driver for the last ca. 7 months I can comment on a couple of things even though I have it worse than you guys as mine uses the 14900HX and 192GB memory: I can confirm that it gets VERY hot when not elevated so elevation it a must but then this is true for just about everything out there. Also even with elevation the SSDs, Intel chipset and memory get very hot, especially with the fans turned down which is not a problem for CPU and GPU temps most of the time. This is because until recently all laptops had little to no active airflow over these areas and this is only slowly changing now with first Razer and then Asus adding a center front fan and now Gigabyte one on each side blowing over the other components. Up to more than 100C on the memory and permanently around 60C on SSDs was not what I wanted so I just got a second bottom cover so that I do not care if a few of the plastic noses break off and when not typing on the Raider and with it sitting aside I take it off, takes all of 5 seconds. I do this with most of my laptops that I use for multiple tasks as they all get hot and drop a lot of temps in the SSDs and memory when I do that, also very important for the X170. The difference in memory is as much as 40C and with SSDs I easily see 20C less. Oh and I took off the shield over the memory - no idea how it would be supposed to survive if I retained that shield. Here is what I currently use: Ringke folding stand, it has two height tiers and folds flat when on the road, very convenient: https://www.amazon.com/Ringke-Portable-Lightweight-Anti-Slide-Invisible/dp/B083VT6P7W/ Two Noctua 90mm fans that I had sitting around, just used to move air under the laptop and they can be positioned just about anywhere depending if you type on the laptop or not or if the cover is off or not. Slim 120 x 15mm fans may be even better but I was too lazy to change things. In any case these should just fit under the laptop and in a pinch they can probably be driven directly from the USB-A connector with this: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0DDT78NTK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 I would still prefer some external power and would definitely do that if these fans run permanently and at home. Fans could for example be two or three of these, they can be attached in a row, no added cabling needed: https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-P12-Slim-PWM-Pressure-optimised/dp/B08QDKGCCW/?th=1 and some rubber feet: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X24NTM3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title Fans also work quite well for cooling things down a bit when the bottom cover is closed but of course better when it is not attached or when ventilation openings are increased. So if one never wants to take off the bottom cover I would suggest to get a second one and cut some ventilation openings if needed. TLDR: Use elevation and choose one that you can take with you add some airflow that goes over the bottom, maybe cut out some areas with a spare cover check temps for memory, SSDs and chipset - you may be surprised

I want to find out which one needs lower power indeed. Got a GT76, too that could use a better CPU so we will see where it ends up! Your 10900K will be hard to beat as it uses roughly as much or even less power with 10 cores as many 9900K use with only 8. Of course I will also check out how far it can go with 5.2 or possibly 5.3GHz, and if I can still achieve great results at around 200W and maybe up to 220W: https://hwbot.org/benchmarks/cinebench_-_r23_multi_core_with_benchmate/submissions/5619877 Shame that we cannot bin CPUs any more now that it is more important than ever especially for Intel.

I certainly will not go that far plus I want more memory but I will experiment a bit with external solutions and also with higher speed network. Not sure if I want to go higher than 40G but that would be a nice start.

This year will be interesting with TB5 opening up new possibilities with the ability to be on the road starting with a lower performance GPU like the 5070 Ti and then one can increase the performance massively with a TB5 case and a desktop card that will easily surpass even the 5090 mobile.

Same with the Raider 18 HX - CPU only with the internal display and always on dedicated GPU with external displays.

Well you already had the Raider 18 HX so you know the lower part of the chassis minus the vapor chamber heat sink. CP X18 HX does have a nicer more professional looking lid and no more RGB annoyances as MSI (sadly for me) went for an all whitish keyboard. It is still incomprehensible for me that despite being a workstation it only has two drive slots but for me it is the nicest laptop with that chassis due to the color combination and also a high quality nicely understated lid that fits a lot better in professional / non-gaming settings. So if there is an open box model out there that that may be worth a try. Before you do that I would however check with @song_1118 who still uses it to inquire about the iGPU / HDMI port connection and in case that you plan to use it if iGPU mode is a viable option. I can remember that some Titan 18 users reported having to re-register their Windows when switching between iGPU and the two other modes which meant that I never even tried iGPU mode in the Raider 18 HX.

I think it started with the G5 generation which was the first chassis with the new more edgy design - very high build quality and great looks. I had a nice fan curve and undervolt for the Zbook 17 G5 and then came an update and HP destroyed it all - it is hard to not have very negative feelings about a company crippling their product like that. From what I know all subsequent iterations of their flagship workstation have the same "works as intended" annoying fan cycling and undervolting is blocked, too. The only option that I have found to tame those CPUs a bit was to set lower power limits with Throttle Stop which helps them not to ramp the clocks to unsustainable levels but that is far from ideal. I forgot that my last Precision was the 7760 that by comparison had a very low powered CPU (ca. 130W max) which certainly helped. The best workstation I have tested is the MSI CreatorPro X18 HX. It is quite magnificent with regard to fan noise and sustainable performance, too bad that it only comes with a monstrous price tag. I am mainly interested in the new generation of laptops for TB5 and to get more drives so if the CPUs are a sideway move that might be good enough for me. For people who do not need that this is probably a generation they can skip unless they finally want a proper 18" workstation that wasn't available before from Dell and HP.

As a baseline and to see what is happening when you change things you may want to check power uptake when you start a game - if that causes a power consumption spike to 450W I would expect the laptop to shut down but I somehow doubt that is happening. In any case getting a good meter to measure power draw is recommended. Then the first thing I would try is to reset the bios - all kinds of obscure settings could have been fiddled with in a prema bios and you may never get to the bottom of it. That is unless others advise against it but it would be the first thing to do for me with all these settings being exposed. As for running fine on battery this is no surprise at all as total power uptake from the battery is likely less than 100W - not a surprise that this would work.