1610ftw

The P870 is a better desktop but it had issues cooling the 9th gen CPUs. The X170 was the better laptop except for the stupid dual power supply construction: much better sound better keyboard better fans unified heatsink I would also have preferred to see those improvements in a slightly bigger chassis with even better cooling but Clevo probably thought it would be overkill. Looking at the size of 5080 and 5090 desktop cards minus the cooler it is indeed a shame that nobody puts them in a laptop. We know it is possible to cool up to 400W of GPU in a laptop as has been shown by SLI designs from Clevo and MSI.

The X580 is kind of a return to form after the lackluster X270 and X370 but they did not go all the way like with the X170 that in many aspects was a very good design.

Cool 🙂 Let us know how things work out with your SSDs!

Not really - only MSI offers the combo of 4 drives, vapor chamber, UHD LED screen and mechanical keyboard. I have asked Schenker about the option to undervolt the X580 as I have done this with all my main laptops for a long time now and there is always some improvement to be had by undervolting.

So this week after some more testing I wanted to pull the trigger on the 5070Ti version of the X580 from Schenker and along comes this: https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/forge-tomorrow-the-new-lenovo-legion-9i-18-10-brings-games-to-life-for-gamers-and-developers-from-vision-to-victory/ 18" 4 drives 4 memory slots 2 TB5 So same as in the Clevo which is pretty unbelieveable coming from Lenovo! Crazy specs, and some things that I have been missing in the Clevo: undervolting vapor chamber cooling rated at up to 280W 400W power supply TB5 with 140W power delivery unless something changes dramatically a very nice keyboard with a good cursor key section Not so great and potential downsides: possibly no QHD display which could be a dealbreaker dual sided SSDs are not confirmed as being supported no subwoofer but supposedly a 6 chassis speaker system looks less understated than the Clevo

This is all still pretty new so I would simply check temps and performance, they should be easy to check. Plus for workstation use I will mostly use the CPU in my laptops so that already helps with temps.

This can actually be a very smart solution as in todays laptops memory, chipsets and the SSDs can get very toasty. So an added fan or two that get(s) the air moving over all those components is a really good idea. More and more manufacturers seem to want to make sure that those areas are cooled and so far we are already seeing that third fan with Asus, TongFang and Gigabyte even has two added fans for that purpose. The Cooling has some TongFang vibes by the way if you look at their latest 16" watercooling design:

I doubt it would make much more than a 20 to 30W difference and for CPU only / CPU heavy loads it will probably have very little real world impact. I have waited (very long) for feedback about the 5070Ti and it seems that it is pretty good and not that much worse than the 4080 mobile last year so it looks like I will go with that, looking forward to the 580!

I checked a few pics from CES and one of their models looks like a Clevo and another one has a distinct Dell vibe. Looks like they emulate the look of other manufacturers including TongFang. Do you have a link where we can see the inside of the X560? 3 drives is above average for sure and it is still puzzling that Clevo does not go for a vapor chamber in their top model.

Surprise surprise: Medion announced its ERAZER Beast 18 X1 and I thought it was another X580 vendor but instead it looks like a TongFang! Sadly without liquid cooling: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/medion-erazer-beast-18-nvidia-rtx-5080-32gb-18-qhd-240hz-intel-ultra-9-27-lap-mdn-04289.html Connectivity is rather sparse and if I had to guess it is 2 NVME and 2 memory slots each. For me this might be the best looking chassis this gen including the keyboard with proper cursor keys and a separate power button.

He already ordered a Thinkpad P16 Gen 2 and received it on the 14th of March.

Haha - that is brutal :D To pull that off in this chassis is indeed something and 67C with 155W (ot is it 165W?) is very respectable!

This is still really impressive and very cool, good to see you at it again! I take it that this is a P870 chassis with vapor chamber, how are temps during your TimeSpy runs?

Yep, sound looks improved indeed. Best 4K panel with LED will still be with the MSI Raider and Titan while Acer, Asus and Gigabyte offer QHD LEDs. Still your M18 has such good performance that this gen will probably be too early to see more than a 10 to 15% improvement.

Any reason except sound that you are consdering the Clevo instead of the new Alienware? Screen specs look similar to the Clevo but with a 300 instead of 240Hz refresh and from what it looks like you will get higher sustained power with the Alienware, too.

I thought that like MSI all Clevo bios were unlockeable so that undervolting would be supported but apparently not. That also means more heat than necessary which makes better fan control a must for me. Does Clevo have a useable fan control implementation in the X580 or do you control them by other means? In the X170 and P775 I am very happy with Clevo Fan Control https://github.com/djsubtronic/ClevoFanControl/releases but I somehow doubt that it will work with the X580! Good luck with those CSODIMMS - they seem to be the way to go for Arrow Lake laptops and I am currently waiting for 48GB modules as I do not really need 256GB but 128GB is not enough either.

Great to hear that you solved your bluescreen issue! Across multiple devices I have noticed that unless you put 4 of the same memory sticks in all slots those 4 slot designs are often lacking documentation about how to populate those slots. Luckily we can test everything with programs like AIDA64 but it should not be so difficult to give the customer instructions which slots to use in which order and/or what best to do with a given number of memory sticks. That SSD cooling solution does not seem to be well thought out at all. I wonder if anybody even tested it as I have a hard time believing that after some testing they would have come up with this. Why isn't it unified to improve cooling and share the load? How does it even differ from a user supplied NVME heat sink? How is it even much of a benefit in the first place when the SSDs seem to have zero airflow over these heatsinks - that surely can't be a good idea? Makes me want to get a spare bottom cover and do my own SSD cooling solution in case that I get the X580. In any case this is not that big of a deal really and I share your sentiment that this is a good one and for me it is the first Clevo that I consider since the X170 chassis. We will probably never get something like the X170 again but at least this is their first flagship BGA book design that gets the basics right.

I like the cooling concept but on the other hand it does not bode well for my 8TB WD SD for the PS5: It fit perfectly in the Raider 18 HX and it really runs pretty cool so it is a bit of a shame that I may have to get rid of it if I switch to the X580. According to XMG / Schenker it will take 4 double sided drives, I specifically asked for that. So that is good news for those of use that really have 4 double sided NVME drives to fill up all those slots. If you did not have those freezing issues before then it may indeed be because of the memory but there also seems to be something that keeps Schenker / XMG from launching the Key 18 model as it still isn't available for order on their website.

Very good to hear about the audio and the keyboard temps and layout! As you know I have not been much of a fan of the audio of the Raider and Titan 18 as I was still spoiled by earlier MSi and especially the X170. So great news that Clevo again offers proper audio quality. I also have to admit that it did not even occur to me that undervolting and overclocking could be an issue but I am glad it isn't. Is there some kind of control center again where the overclocking / undervolting and fan speed can be adjusted? I hope you can make some progress with memory. If it works out then 4x16GB also has the nice side effect that you have a good amount of capacity for just about everything outside of running specialized memory hungry applications on it. Up to 256GB is a massive amount of memory that is a fantastic option for people who may need it and it would be cool to be able to advertise that. I am really curious if we will have any issues with the new 64GB sticks. With the 4x48GB Crucial I never had any, that was an easy upgrade from 4x32GB.

I really like that you decided to get it so that I do not have to 😄 Great news about the improved cooling and I have to say that those 4 NVME and 4 memory slots look beautiful! From what I recall the keyboard should still be similar to the one in the X170? With the improved cooling really the only criticism that I have is that they have reduced connectivity to a new low. Also 37K CB R23 with 150W is really nice, as is the TimeSpy GPU score! Looking forward to hear what you have to say about the audio as you have a good frame of reference with the many laptops you have owned.

Not interested indeed to be able to push 300W into that 10900K but rather what it can do at about 200W which is where it counts in a (beefy) laptop. Memory temps will most probably be better than in mine as one of the big issues seems to be that the sticks are stacked and I also have 4 x 48GB which doesn't help. The ones closer to the motherboard get a lot hotter, I have seen over 100C for them! I have that pad, too but it is rather uncomfortable when typing and also it does not fit in the same backpack that I put my laptops in so it mostly stays home and currently gets used by my son with his laptop. Oh and my pad has got two big Noctua fans in it - nice and quiet but ugly 🙂

Very nice, looking forward to play with the 10900K 🙂 I also got a decent 10850K by the way but it is just too much for a laptop as it consumes about 15 to 20% more than the chip I got from @electrosoft. Mobile 50x prices are highway robbery right now with MSI, Asus, Razer and others and the Raider with the 4090 will be much better value for money, so I would keep it for a while. As I have rocked the Raider 18HX as my main driver for the last ca. 7 months I can comment on a couple of things even though I have it worse than you guys as mine uses the 14900HX and 192GB memory: I can confirm that it gets VERY hot when not elevated so elevation it a must but then this is true for just about everything out there. Also even with elevation the SSDs, Intel chipset and memory get very hot, especially with the fans turned down which is not a problem for CPU and GPU temps most of the time. This is because until recently all laptops had little to no active airflow over these areas and this is only slowly changing now with first Razer and then Asus adding a center front fan and now Gigabyte one on each side blowing over the other components. Up to more than 100C on the memory and permanently around 60C on SSDs was not what I wanted so I just got a second bottom cover so that I do not care if a few of the plastic noses break off and when not typing on the Raider and with it sitting aside I take it off, takes all of 5 seconds. I do this with most of my laptops that I use for multiple tasks as they all get hot and drop a lot of temps in the SSDs and memory when I do that, also very important for the X170. The difference in memory is as much as 40C and with SSDs I easily see 20C less. Oh and I took off the shield over the memory - no idea how it would be supposed to survive if I retained that shield. Here is what I currently use: Ringke folding stand, it has two height tiers and folds flat when on the road, very convenient: https://www.amazon.com/Ringke-Portable-Lightweight-Anti-Slide-Invisible/dp/B083VT6P7W/ Two Noctua 90mm fans that I had sitting around, just used to move air under the laptop and they can be positioned just about anywhere depending if you type on the laptop or not or if the cover is off or not. Slim 120 x 15mm fans may be even better but I was too lazy to change things. In any case these should just fit under the laptop and in a pinch they can probably be driven directly from the USB-A connector with this: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0DDT78NTK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 I would still prefer some external power and would definitely do that if these fans run permanently and at home. Fans could for example be two or three of these, they can be attached in a row, no added cabling needed: https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-P12-Slim-PWM-Pressure-optimised/dp/B08QDKGCCW/?th=1 and some rubber feet: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X24NTM3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title Fans also work quite well for cooling things down a bit when the bottom cover is closed but of course better when it is not attached or when ventilation openings are increased. So if one never wants to take off the bottom cover I would suggest to get a second one and cut some ventilation openings if needed. TLDR: Use elevation and choose one that you can take with you add some airflow that goes over the bottom, maybe cut out some areas with a spare cover check temps for memory, SSDs and chipset - you may be surprised

I want to find out which one needs lower power indeed. Got a GT76, too that could use a better CPU so we will see where it ends up! Your 10900K will be hard to beat as it uses roughly as much or even less power with 10 cores as many 9900K use with only 8. Of course I will also check out how far it can go with 5.2 or possibly 5.3GHz, and if I can still achieve great results at around 200W and maybe up to 220W: https://hwbot.org/benchmarks/cinebench_-_r23_multi_core_with_benchmate/submissions/5619877 Shame that we cannot bin CPUs any more now that it is more important than ever especially for Intel.

I certainly will not go that far plus I want more memory but I will experiment a bit with external solutions and also with higher speed network. Not sure if I want to go higher than 40G but that would be a nice start.

This year will be interesting with TB5 opening up new possibilities with the ability to be on the road starting with a lower performance GPU like the 5070 Ti and then one can increase the performance massively with a TB5 case and a desktop card that will easily surpass even the 5090 mobile.