Aaron44126

...I am suspecting 7670-thin gets only two SSD slots instead of three; waiting for @Dell-Mano_G to weigh in. (This is based on his comments of which RAID modes are supported with each chassis.) So, if that matters to you and you're also wanting a low-end GPU, you might have to get the 7770. Mostly, 7770 vs. 7670 is basically down to preference. You can look at photos from the previous page (in spoiler blocks) and get a feel for the difference in the chassis size between the two. (Look at how much space there is to the left and right of the keyboard, for example.) You are right that 7770 does not have a thin chassis version. 7770 gets four NVMe slots. 7770 has a 16:9 panel (LCD) while 7670 has 16:10 (...OLED, if you get the UHD one). Typically, the 17" system has had slightly better cooling and higher GPU power limits, but that's less of a concern if you're not going for a high-end GPU. (GPU power limits on these new systems has not yet been confirmed.)

The spec sheet indicates that ECC RAM up to 64GB will be supported via the SODIMM interposer. (Not right at launch, though; this is a "coming soon" item.) Xeon is not required. Intel is now supporting ECC via the Core i5/i7/i9 CPUs, if you have a workstation chipset/PCH in the system.

That is interesting; can you only put two NVMe drives in the 7670 "thin" chassis?

@Dell-Mano_G I believe @SvenC is referring to Precision 5000-series, not 7000-series. 5000-series (and XPS) seem to have a CPU/GPU restriction. If you try to get a better CPU then it forces a better GPU on you as well. @SvenC Maybe Precision 7670 "thin chassis" is something to look at...

Hee hee. https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-spotted-using-unsupported-cpu-during-its-windows-11-insider-webcast-program/

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I have a few followups. Will the SODIMM interposer be available for purchase separately later on? (I.e. I know that only configs with CAMM modules will be offered at launch, so, maybe after Dell starts allowing SODIMM configurations at order?) Definitely interested in this so I will be poking back at launch... I want to order one ASAP but the answer to these questions could impact which GPU I select. 🙂 (Also have a CPU question which can't be addressed yet...) Also interested in these when you have a moment to investigate (...but I do not think it would impact which config I order). On the second point, confirmation that you are using the same panel as the Alienware M17 R5 would be enough. (If you are using the same panel that was used in last year's 7760, then it probably does not have it.) ... Does that mean WWAN antennas? Were the WWAN antennas moved out of the display enclosure? If so, does that mean WWAN+IR camera configurations can be ordered now? Thanks again.

Past systems have allowed for configs like this. You do not have to have all drives in the array, you can do two in and one out, or all three in if you choose. If you want to do a split config then just order the system with individual drives and set up RAID after you receive it. (Or you can order the system with one drive and add more aftermarket. Dell includes all of the NVMe heatsinks even if you do not order it with drives in all slots.)

Here is the CAMM patent application referenced in the PC World article. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220029322A1/ (info) https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/87/ca/f3/74f33834848280/US20220029322A1.pdf (pdf) Looks like they are not interested in producing ECC CAMM modules at the moment, but the interface should support it (they are offering ECC support via SODIMM for Precision 7X70). Though it seems to me that they could fit four more DRAM chips on there if they extended the board length just slightly. Maybe we'll see ECC CAMM modules in the next year or two ...?

Interestingly, the board size changes depending on the capacity. If this becomes a standard, presumably laptop manufacturers would be OK with not offering the full 128GB on some systems and could design those systems with only the smaller modules in mind. (Sort of reminiscent of MXM 3.0a vs MXM 3.0b.) Also, the 16GB and 32GB modules could probably be shrunk down a bit more if they made double-sided versions. (And of course, as memory "shrinks" they will be able to fit more capacity on smaller modules.) Interesting development all around. Will be curious to see how it plays out. [Edit] Ninja'd 128GB version can't be that much bigger than four SODIMMs. It has the same number of DRAM chips and they are really packed on there. The physical space for the CAMM connector is a pretty good size, though. I guess they can't put chips there because there will be a "bolster plate" there doing the... "compression attachment". [Edit 2] Seems like the line of thinking is ..... Other than saving space, SODIMM is going to have signal issues if we start trying to push the memory speed much higher, and Dell is trying to head that off with a new design for memory modules. Putting it in Precision 7X70 (before it is a "standard") is their way of saying, "See? It works."

Really interesting article on CAMM, which it turns out is not intended to be a Dell proprietary standard, but rather potentially the "next thing" after SODIMM if it gets JEDEC approval. https://www.pcworld.com/article/693366/dell-defends-its-controversial-new-laptop-memory.html

Full details out on this today. There are a lot of issues with modern laptops, including vendor lock-in... but this has been notably mishandled by the press jumping on a leak. CAMM was designed with input from a number of companies, including Dell, Intel, and memory manufacturers. CAMM is not intended to be a proprietary standard. (Maybe other manufacturers will pick it up? It needs to be approved by JEDEC and that's something they're working on.) Dell is not manufacturing the CAMM modules going into the new Precision laptops. Dell has committed to supporting both CAMM and SODIMM in Precision systems moving forward. SODIMM modules can be installed into a CAMM slot with an interposer/adapter. (Dell does hold some patents on CAMM.) https://www.pcworld.com/article/693366/dell-defends-its-controversial-new-laptop-memory.html https://videocardz.com/newz/dell-introduces-camm-ddr5-memory-for-its-new-precision-laptops-up-to-128gb-per-module

@Dell-Mano_G, I was hoping that I could trouble you to take a look at these questions. I have a good number of them this time... I see 180W and 240W power adapters listed on the spec sheet for both Precision 7X70 systems. What determines which one you get? Somewhere, I saw mention that the power adapters are smaller now. Are you using the GaN power adapters (like Alienware has started using recently)? Any issue with using older 180W or 240W power adapters? On the cooling system, anything you'd like to note about that? The design is rather different than previous generations going back to 7X10. Do all of the NVMe drive slots support PCI Express 4? Is there any difference in performance between the slots? CAMM memory modules — What was the impetus for adding these to the system design? Do you expect SODIMM configurations to continue to be offered as a choice in future generations of Precision Mobile Workstation systems? Will the SODIMM interposer be available for purchase separately? (If not right off of the web site, then through the spare parts dept.?) What is the maximum boost power level of the GPU in the 7670 and 7770? Assuming top-spec GPU. (NVIDIA's GPU spec sheet shows RTX A5500 maxing out at 165W.) Are power limits the same between the RTX A5500 and the RTX 3080 Ti? Are you able to share anything regarding Dell's reasoning for now offering a GeForce GPU in the Precision 7000 systems? (Basically a point of curiosity for me.) NVIDIA's GPU spec sheet lists ECC vRAM support for the RTX A3000, RTX A4500, and RTX A5500. Is this available/enabled in the Precision systems? Is it something that is "for free" / "always on", or do you have to go and enable it from NVIDIA Control Panel or something? (I am recalling that with some older mobile Quadros, you would have to explicitly enable ECC vRAM, and turning it on would reduce the amount of available vRAM as it basically used some of the GPU vRAM to provide ECC.) Is NVIDIA Dynamic Boost 2.0 supported? (It looks like this was not initially supported in Precision 7X60, but it was added with the 1.8.x BIOS update.) Is NVIDIA "Advanced Optimus" supported? (Note: Referring here specifically to "Advanced Optimus" which is different from "Optimus".) Is OLED image retention or "burn-in" a concern for the Precision 7670 UHD+ display? (Thinking some display elements on the screen could be fixed for hours at a time.) Does the Precision 7770 4K/120Hz panel support FreeSync or any other dynamic refresh rate mechanism? (...I saw that the Alienware M17 R5, which launched recently, has a 17" panel that includes this.) With those hinges, how far can the display open? Anything that you would like to mention regarding the display panels? Are those "lines" on the very front of the sides of the system WLAN antennas, or what? Anything else new that you would like to draw attention to? Any hint as to when the systems will be available to order? Amazing work from the Precision team, as always... I wanted to note that I'm very grateful for the improvements in fan behavior made with the Tiger Lake / 7X60 systems, something that I wasn't actually expecting until I actually had one in front of me. The EC/BIOS fan control is much more granular now and my work Precision 7560 is able to spend much of the time with the fans running, but below 2000 RPM (basically inaudible). I hope that the 7X70 systems have maintained this.

Dell announced the 7000 series (earlier than expected)! Not available to order, still in "coming soon" status. Looks like they gave a FYQ2 release window, which I believe runs May through July. (Will update this post shortly with some links.) [Edit] Dell press release. https://investors.delltechnologies.com/news-releases/news-release-details/reimagined-work-demands-redesigned-machines The press release doesn't mention "Adler Lake HX" but it does note that Intel will be dropping new 55W mobile CPUs "soon". Spec sheets released have the CPU details blanked out. Hadn't been thinking that they might do a "partial announcement" in this manner. This article from wccftech has a lot of information and photos. (The same photos have shown up in articles from a number of other outlets... I just found this one first.) https://wccftech.com/dell-precision-7770-7670-workstation-laptops-official-intel-alder-lake-hx-16-core-cpus-camm-128-gb-ddr5-memory/ Precision 7770 (There's a good view of the keyboard layout; seems to be exactly the same as 7X60, as expected.) Dell Precision 7670 Breakdown images: 7770 [Edit] - This photo doesn't make sense... Heatsink and fans should be below the motherboard, right? 7670 CAMM module vs SODIMM CAMM module physical PCB shots. Module size seems to change depending on capacity? (I sort of figured that they would do this. The module that we saw before could not hold enough memory chips for 128 GB of RAM.) SODIMM interposer There's also a Precision 5470 "anniversary edition" system with a cool blue finish, which will be available for a limited time. [Edit 2] VideoCardz has a nice page where you can see front-and-back images of all four different CAMM modules. The width also changes a little depending on capacity. https://videocardz.com/newz/dell-introduces-camm-ddr5-memory-for-its-new-precision-laptops-up-to-128gb-per-module It also states that CAMM was designed in collaboration with other companies, including Intel, and is not intended to be a proprietary standard. (Maybe we will see it being used in place of SODIMM in systems from other manufacturers at some point?) [Edit 3] Two different chassis sizes for Precision 7670. (Spot the difference?) [Edit 4] Interesting timing. New driver from NVIDIA supports all of the new workstation GPUs. https://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/187606/en-us I looked at the Dell INF file. It supports GPUs in the Precision 5X70 but not 7X70, yet.

It just depends on what the CPU supports. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/52227/intel-core-i72820qm-processor-8m-cache-up-to-3-40-ghz.html DDR3 1066/1333/1600

I think part of the deal with the keyboard is that Dell really wants to standardize it between their different laptops…. Or at least between all of the business laptops. And they have succeeded there. They all have the same layout, with the only variation being whether they have the numeric keypad or not. So, that might mean that we’ll no longer get a Precision-specific layout like we had with 7X30 and 7X40 (which most agree were perfectly fine). Regarding compatibility between systems, there has been precedent for this working before. For example, users were able to take the Precision 7X30 keyboard, which had a favorable layout, and install it in Precision 7X10 or 7X20. Really, though, that’s unlikely to work out for either the keyboard or touchpad this time. Even if the physical cable connections are the same, you’d have to swap out the entire palmrest, and with a chassis refresh, palmrests from other systems will definitely not fit. We will be able to check out the cables when the service manual is available, and that should be at the same time that the systems become available to order. I’ve been getting by on the keyboard by doing some custom key mapping. F11/F12 = Home/End Insert/Calc = F11/F12 Right Alt/Ctrl = PgUp/PgDn … I do miss full size arrow keys. You can also get used to using the numeric keypad with num lock off which could “solve” all of these keys, but that didn’t work out well for me. (Some apps will trigger on PgUp/PgDn while I am trying to use it to type in “alt” character codes.) Regarding the touchpad, for users who really like the physical buttons… Seems like Dell is not interested in going that way right now. 😕

Windows 10, version 21H2 is deployed as an enablement package if you are coming from Windows 10, version 2004. It's not a full build upgrade like most prior "feature upgrades". It is normal for it to only take a few minutes to install. Very strange to me if it is causing issues like this. It really has very few changes. You can roll back to your previous version of Windows 10, though, by uninstalling the KB4562830 update package.

@Steerpike What you are describing is a pretty common issue for screen shots when the scaling ratio is higher than 100%, in any web situation. I've run into this myself. The forum doesn't know what scaling ratio your screen shot was captured at, so it just assumes 100%. If the screen shot has 150% scaling then it will come out on the forum 50% too big. You'd have to manually shrink it down accordingly (divide the pixel dimensions by 1.5). Assuming that the forum doesn't actually downscale the image (it does not appear that it does) then it will still look sharp to other visitors who are using 150% scaling, and it will at least not appear to be blown up to users who are using 100% scaling.

[Edit] Wrote a long thing but decided after several weeks that I don’t want to leave it up here.

First Alder Lake HX leak from another laptop maker? Not really sure if it really counts as a leak. AORUS/Gigabyte has posted information about a new system with an Alder Lake HX CPU. They didn't make an announcement, as far as I can tell, but the system details were found on their web site. This one has i9-12900HX and RTX 3080 Ti. https://www.aorus.com/zh-tw/laptops/AORUS-17X--Intel-12th-Gen/Key-Features ASUS's May 9 event still seems to be the best indication of when Intel may formally announce Alder Lake HX. (No real chance to see a proper announcement from Dell about these systems until that happens.) [Edit] Also, Dell today announced an AMD Alienware system with 17" 120Hz dynamic refresh rate 4K display (FreeSync). I wonder if there's any chance that 7770 uses the same panel...

This has been misrepresented a bit in the press. Dell introduced a new CAMM module, but they are supporting SODIMM modules on these systems as well (with an adapter). Dell is providing an interposer that allows two SODIMM modules to be connected to the CAMM slot on the motherboard. (Their price list shows the equivalent SODIMM option to be cheaper than CAMM, to boot.) None of the news articles seem to be catching onto this, even though it was clear in the original leaked material. They are all claiming that Dell is forcing this standard with no alternative. CAMM does allow memory to be packed more densely so if you want 128GB of RAM in your laptop (which would require four SODIMMs), you have to use a CAMM module. Not necessarily trying to defend Dell here. Just setting facts straight. This has been discussed in-depth over in the Precision 7X70 pre-release thread (before it even started showing up on tech news sites). [Edit] (One week later) Good article on the subject. https://www.pcworld.com/article/693366/dell-defends-its-controversial-new-laptop-memory.html

ASUS has announced this event... I think they blew the lid on the Intel's Tiger Lake H45 announcement date last year with a similar pre-announcement. It may well be the case that Intel announces Alder Lake HX in the morning on May 9 (U.S. time)... then there is this ASUS event (plus new system announcements from several other laptop vendors)... and I guess Precision 7X70 is on sale as soon as the next day? (No need to wait a few weeks for Intel workstation CPUs to be ready this time...)

Now live in the US market. Not sure what is up with China prices. 5770 i9+A3000 config matching the one here (i.e. FHD, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD) is $3,917 USD... less than half. ETA seems to be about one month, more or less, depending on the model (May 13-23). I updated the top post with links to the order pages and I'm also adding support pages (en-US). @yslalan was spot on about the Precision 3000/5000 launch date. Hopefully, the Precision 7000 launch date is also accurate. ...With Dell staging all of this promo material, I am wondering if Intel's Alder Lake HX announcement is imminent? (Hoping there is some time between announcement and release of the 7000 series for evaluation + Q&A.)

Support pages for 3000/5000 seem to be live (with drivers, manuals, etc.). Here is 5770. https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/product-support/product/precision-17-5770-laptop/overview Systems are not live to order in the US market yet, but it looks like they're working on it. Precision 5570 is listed but the page is broken. I guess they figure that more and more people are using gestures and would prefer the extra touchpad space over the physical buttons. I myself do appreciate the two-finger scroll gesture (but I turn off everything else, especially "pinch zoom" which I have activated by accident on a few occasions). It looks like you can set up Windows to map three-finger or four-finger taps to the middle mouse button. So, this falls into the same category as others... Just seems like the way things are going (like it or not).

It's not just physical space of the modules (which is obviously going to be the same... maybe a little less, if they cram those memory modules together as they have done here). It's also space on the motherboard. Space for the slots, and for the traces running from the slots to the CPU. Now, they have it down to one slot instead of four and the slot is right next to the CPU. Also, not having SODIMMs on both sides of the board allows them to shrink the system height by a few mm. (There is probably no reason for anything "sticking up" on the "top"/keyboard side of the motherboard at this point.)

Trying not to play the Dell/Precision fanboy. I have mixed reactions as well. However, having watched what Dell is doing with these systems for over a decade... I can say that I understand their decision making (even if I don't agree with it all the way) and, to an extent, it seems like the Precision 7X70 couldn't have turned out any other way. Everything I see is like, "Well, of course they did that." Got to keep in mind... Dell is, of course, under pressure to shrink the system while also increasing performance and cooling potential; generally, they have been delivering on this every time they refresh the chassis. Especially given that these systems are mostly purchased by businesses and not by individuals, the percentage of people who do GPU upgrades or even simpler things like swapping out memory modules is a tiny slice of their target market. Dell aside, the selection of high-end systems is going to be smaller than ever before, with Intel "dumbing down" Alder Lake H (compared to Tiger Lake H), in terms of memory support & PCIe lanes... I'd only be interested in Alder Lake HX systems and it seems like there aren't going to be that many to choose from, as most OEMs have already launched flagship gaming laptops with Alder Lake H. I honestly don't know where else I would turn to other than Dell. HP seems to consistently under-deliver compared to Dell (offering systems with comparable specs that are a bit larger, typically a bit more expensive, and perform a bit worse). I don't really trust Lenovo, and no one else has the track record for workstation-class laptops. So, I don't want to sound like I'm going against or belittling your opinions, just adding in my takes: Modulatiry in general. I don't feel like this is gone. The memory module is still a separate, discrete component, even if it is not SODIMM. The GPU module is still separate (presumably), even if it is not MXM. They should still have a separate trackpad cable and such. Serviceability in general. It remains to be seen how the Precision 7X70 will fare here, but Dell is one of the only (or maybe the only) major laptop vendors that provides full servicing instructions with pictures and everything, with no special membership or cost required to access the information. (There have been some blatant missteps here, like making the coin cell battery hard to access in the newer Precision systems.) mDP. Honestly, don't care, I was expecting this to happen. I feel like the industry is moving to USB-C over mDP for display output. It gives you a multi-purpose port; USB-C can carry a DisplayPort signal. USB-C to DP/mDP adapters are cheap and easy to find. If you don't want a dongle sitting around, you can just get a USB-C to DisplayPort cable to connect to a monitor (that's what I plan to do). HDMI is obviously not going anywhere as long as it is the standard on projectors and TVs. (Apple, king of dongle-land, even went and put the HDMI port back on their latest laptops.) Trackpad. Basically ambivalent. I never use it, I carry a mouse everywhere. But... I guess I feel like a "clickpad" would not be bad if they can match the level of responsiveness that you'd see on a modern MacBook and also offer a similar tactile feel to the "clicking" function. I've always felt like the touchpad in Precision systems was on the passable-but-mediocre side. (I haven't tried the trackpad on the newer XPS systems. I know that they've been working on it.) CAMM. That's a tricky one. I feel like the best situation would have been for a group of OEMs to get together and decide on a standard for memory modules that allowed for a more dense per-module storage capacity than SODIMM, and roll that out at the same time as DDR5. (That seems to be the driving force; four SODIMM ports+modules just takes up too much space.) Failing that, it seems like something like this was bound to happen eventually. I was hoping for the option to save some money by purchasing memory modules aftermarket (...especially for non-business users who might want to pick up one of these systems for individual use, but find the cost to be a bit steep). But... Given the option to either keep SODIMM, or instead put that space to increasing the cooling potential & performance of the system, I can see why Dell went the way that they did and I don't fault them for it. At least the RAM is not soldered to the motherboard. SODIMM modules are still supported up to 64GB with the interposer, and that will be fine for many people. However... You'd have to pay Dell for the cheapest interposer configuration, and then throw those modules away to install your own. Hopefully, that configuration has a similar price point to the entry CAMM configuration. Also, hopefully they won't make it hard to pick up the SODIMM interposer separately. If I were going to complain about these systems, I'd say: Ports on the back. At least power and Ethernet. The huge exhaust port seems great, but now seeing the design of the cooling system, it seems like those two ports could have been moved "around the corner" to the back and the exhaust port could have been shrunk just a bit to accommodate them, and the cooling would be no worse off really. Fix the keyboard layout, already. It needs dedicated Home/End and PgUp/PgDn buttons. (Can't confirm that they haven't made any changes, yet, but it looks to me like it's going to be the same as 7X50/7X60.) ...I miss the "old days" when you could remove the bottom panel by taking out just two screws. (That said, I hope that I'm opening this system up for tinkering much less often than I did with my M6700.) ...You could also get the battery out by pulling a latch and it didn't require removing the whole bottom cover. (Not a problem yet, but the day that they start trying to hawk a proprietary SSD form factor is the day that I stop buying these systems.) Precision 7X70 will be available with ECC memory; regular Core CPUs support it now (if paired with an appropriate PCH/chipset). You are right... There is no Precision 7570, and Windows "Pro for Workstations" is dead (for laptops anyway). I found right-angle Dell power adapter things on Amazon and I'll be picking up some of those. Ethernet cords are pretty "bendable" so I'll just tie the Ethernet and power cords together and plug the Ethernet straight in. We'll see how that goes...