Mr. Fox

Thank you, Jesus! It is interesting that the X870E Carbon manual makes no mention of this that I can find, but I remember in one of the videos I watched (don't recall if it was KitGuru or Wendell at L1) it was mentioned that if both Gen5 M.2 slots are populated it will do that. I also do not remember if it was a specific board or all of them. The one under the GPU PCIe x16 slot is shared with the slot if I remember correctly. It would have been better to have only one Gen5 slot for sure. I love that the Apex has none. It makes it better than the Encore for that reason alone. If you want Gen5 you can use the included add-in card and cripple your GPU. It is unfortunate as well that many new Intel and AMD motherboard have only 4 SATA ports. In some cases one of the SATA ports is shared with one M.2 and both cannot be used. (I think only the lower tier chipsets, not Z or X have this handicap.) That really sucks. X870E Carbon User Manual

Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Build something for gamers and overclocking enthusiasts and give it "special" features that no gamer or overclocking enthusiast would want. That's the new way everyone rolls in tech world now. Pat on the back and a knife to the gut.

Welcome to more Gen5. The tech nobody needs. If my understanding is correct (and it may not be) if you have four M.2 slots that happens if you use both of the Gen5, but not if you use only the one above the GPU. So you could only use two Gen4 and one Gen5. A$U$ made the top M.2 Gen5 on the Apex Encore and it happens on it, too. The Apex is all Gen4 M.2 and you can fill them all with no impact.

Yes, 9950X. Just because I honestly do not care about having a gaming-focused CPU. That is not important to me. I want what performs best in CPU centric overclocked computational workloads and 3D v-cache isn't that. We know nothing really about 9950X3D other than rumors. It is supposedly going to be unlocked, but that doesn't mean it will be good at overclocking.

There are a couple more features on the newer board. I could have saved about $100 on the older Carbon, but it did not have some of the things I always look for like on-board buttons for things like power and reset. But, the way AMD does their "chipset" number is sort of misleading (as noted in the KitGuru video) and the only difference between X670E and X870E is USB 4.0 is mandatory on the later, optional on the former (update to board partner to choose). But, in another way is it not misleading because the motherboards have differences in design and aesthetics even if the actual chipset didn't change. It would get confusing if they had multiple motherboards that had the same chipset name and the same motherboard model name with different features and design changes. So in that respect it is more necessary than misleading. There could also be differences (hopefully improvements) in PCB and SMD components. This would be less confusing than having board version/revision numbers like Gigabyte sometimes does.

Yeah, I agree about the cheap garbage and China getting lots of new trash and being happy with it. Sad, but true. If the 5950X 9950X and Carbon suck at overclocking I will consider returning them or a refund, or use it as my work computer and sell the mini-ITX system on Facepoot marketplace or something like that. As long as it is not a buggy piece of crap and unreliable like my last Ryzen build then it will be a success either way. it does great on the chiller and AMD scores a win in my book for the first time (the ideal outcome); or, I have a validated reason to complain (one reason I use Winduhz 11 is that unexplainable hate is irrational) I am starting with the same open mind and intent that I always start out with, which is that I am going to love it unless or until I find out otherwise. I think the kiddos (and Jufus) call that FAFO'ing, LOL.

I agree. I don't care about TB4 either. The biggest challenges with ITX are missing features overall. In particular, usually few SATA ports and often only one EPS 8-pin power, weaker VRMs and VRM cooling. The Z790i Edge is a rare example of one that has it all, but it is priced pretty steep for a compromised form factor like the majority. The Intel Z and AMD X ITX boards are all on the expensive side. For a gamer, a lot of that doesn't matter much. The X670E Gene seems like the best for an overclock-focused AM5 ITX board but it is a unicorn priced like a gold-plated unicorn. It is tragic that there are not more 2-DIMM boards for Intel and AMD, but for AMD it is nearly unheard of.

The only place I could buy a X670 Gene was from Alibaba and not wanting to do that or go the ASUS route again it was mostly a stab in the dark. The board itself has all of the features I require in terms of bells, buttons and whistles (Q-code LCD, power and reset buttons, etc.). I almost went with the Taichi, but decided against it based on HUB video stating they could not POST at 8000 whereas many others did. HWBOT was worthless due to lack of information and hardly any participation from AMD owners. Those that do are ASUS fanboys, and some of them getting free parts. So, yeah, stab in the dark and hope for the best. Because of the unfortunate lack of good examples to draw conclusions from on HWBOT--I did appreciate seeing the useful examples there from Brother @Raiderman though--and in the absence of anything more reliable I judged based on this video (starting at 34:30) and deliberately chose "not A$U$" as the option. The Carbon seemed to cover all of the bases best on performance and feature set. Close with the Aorus Master and the BIOS tilted me toward MSI. I really liked the Taichi Lite (no RGB) except for the no GPU PCIe release assist and possibly poor DDR5 overclocking. I decided to not risk the memory overclocking being poor based on the HUB video even though Wendell did hit 8000 with the X870E Taichi. Maybe Steve had bad mobo samples. ...and corroboration from these two...

That might be when I test the water. Depends on what they do. I'm always watching though. If any stones need to be cast (at either Team Red or Team Blue) I will throw them as hard as I can. There is no mercy for selling lackluster components or buggy crap.

LOL, I saw that last night and meant to say something and forgot. Good catch. I was going to make reference to it in the context of Core Ultra being a Satanic abortion. 😜 Well, in spite of my words and behavior repeatedly demonstrating that I don't care about brand it is going to be surprising to some. I'm hard to please, but not a fanboy. I value results and do not believe in brand loyalty or forgiveness for companies that do things I don't like. If I get what I want, they score a win. If I don't, then they'll get scortched earth. Time and testing will tell whether or not it was poor judgment. Once I determine that nothing needs to be RMA'd I will likely sell one of my nicely binned i9 CPUs and the Encore, or Velocita, or both mobos and 2 CPUs. I have extras, so I still have an exit strategy if I don't like it. 😂 And, if I don't like it then I will merely validate a basis for having an opinion. I hope I do like it though. We shall see. It will start out initially on the Praxis Wetbench with the CR360 Dark AIO, then move to the Antec case if I decide to sell the Encore. The chiller setup is plug and play, with both benching systems on wheeled carts and QDC fittings, so that part is easy peasy. I ordered a Heatkiller IV Pro block cheap from Titan Rig. If it is worth keeping then I will order a der8auer Delid Die Mate and Mycro direct die block in December or January. Since my memory tuning is manual anyhow, I expect my TG Xtreme 8200 sticks to work fine without Expo profiles. Everyone can rest assured that I will show no mercy when it comes to calling balls and strikes. And, if credit is due it will be given freely and in good measure.

Well, stay tuned. There may be some hell to pay.

I wish I could say that I have a surpised look on my face. Even if it had turned out well on the desktop side of things it would have been taken for granted that the mobile side of things would suck because that is always the case for mobile. The fact that this did not turn out well on the desktop made the prospect of a good mobile product far more unlikely. 😑

Yes, I have purchased from them a couple of times and they are excellent. I even had their head of sales call me to apologize for a mistake they had made. It wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but the fact that they cared enough was pretty great. We don't see that often in the tech space at all, especially with EVGA out of the picture.

Probably because it is a benchmark that Ryzen shines in. The opposite of what it would look like with AIDA64 Cache and Memory Benchmark. If you look on HWBOT we see really good numbers from Ryzen in Geekbench and it includes memory performance testing, just from a different angle than AIDA64, but it is not categorized as a memory benchmark. It is considered a CPU benchmark, but it is affected by memory performance. You are not wrong. He is certainly entitled to have an opinion, but sometimes expressing opinions in the wrong context can only be viewed as trolling or inappropriate. The issue is he was making comments on a article specifically about overclocking, and celebrating those results, with a comment he does not care about overclocking. The article is for those that do care. Kind of like going to a pizzeria and declaring you don't like pizza, but it's nice that you serve pizza for those that do. That person's presence at the pizzeria benefits no one and the comments serve no purpose. That person's motives for being there and his intelligence in making such a comment at that time and place might be legitimately called into question. That isn't persecution, it is expressing an opinion or making a statement that isn't relevant or useful and puzzling to those that do like pizza. The question one might ask is "Then why are you here?"

It is awesome to see that kind of performance jump. Anyone that doesn't like that is either lying or stupid. Speaking of stupidity, I think one of AMD's biggest challenges is the mentality of some of their customers. Like this one... That is detrimental to all concerned, including those that don't care but are too dumb to know better.

But, will it overclock? That's the million dollar question. With GPUs we are moving in the direction of just barely already because they are so castrated by firmware. If it is a beast and doesn't overclock, then "do not pass go and do not collect $200" is how I look at it. It doesn't earn the title "beast" if it doesn't overclock no matter how powerful it is, it's just a worthless gamerboy consumer play toy to me. No overclock = "push the buttons, pull the chain, out comes chocolate choo-choo train" or, if you prefer, "milk, milk, lemonade, 'round the corner fudge is made" 🤣

Hey guys. If you haven't seen this benchmark tool, check it out. I saw it on a Buildzoid video. https://github.com/clamchowder/MicrobenchmarksGui/releases/tag/v0.000006 It can be used to benchmark system RAM bandwidth and latency, and GPU VRAM when copying from CPU to GPU and GPU to CPU memory.

Yes, it is a strong CPU. I haven't ruled it out completely as an option to consider, I am just very apprehensive about a lot of things based on a long history of disappointment. But, for the first time ever I am disappointed with what Intel brought to the table. I don't like the design of Ryzen architecture, but it looks like the writing is on the wall now with Intel adopting tiled/chiplet crap. The choice isn't as clear as it was before Core Ultra reared its ugly head. I know you and I have discussed how a Ryzen 9 CPU might behave on a chiller since it is thermally limited boost clock. (Behavior is more like a modern GPU.) That could prove to be interesting if boost clock scales up when cool as much as it scales down when not cool. I'm leaning toward just doing nothing as being the best option since I am not concerned in the least about i9 degradation. But, no need for urgency, especially with Black Friday and Christmas sales coming soon. And who knows... maybe the bottom will fall out on Zen 5 and Core Ultra platform pricing since both have had a cooler reception than AMD and Intel had hoped they would. It will be interesting to observe if any new drama unfolds with the Zen 5 X3D chips. For whatever silly reason, it seems like new tech has an unhealthy dependency on Micro$lop's abortion OSes being optimized for proper functionality. When you stop and think about it, that is extremely sucky and shouldn't be the case at all. Every time AMD releases something new there is something wrong with Windoze holding it back that has to be fixed, and then when Intel started the smartphone core integration it was thread scheduler this, thread scheduler that, blah, blah, blah. None of that actually mattered using manual BIOS settings (fixed clocks and voltages) for everything... Winduhz became irrelevant. Windows 7 and 10 work marvelously with no Winduhz 11 thread scheduler nonsense with manual settings. Not sure if that applies equally to Ryzen as well.

Yes it certainly could be if it overclocks better than a 9950X does. I'm not very interested in stock performance though, because a CPU or GPU that doesn't overclock well is very boring and of zero value to me even if it is the most powerful option available for purchase. The fact that it will overclock at all will be an improvement over previous X3D chips since they were locked down. I'm not very optimistic but open-minded when it comes to AMD. I am not a brand-loyalist, but I do hold a grudge when I'm not happy about things turn out. Let's cross our fingers and hope they do something different and better that what Brother @Raiderman described about his experience with 9950X, which sounds remarkably similar to (maybe not as bad as) the new Core Ultra rubbish. I don't buy hardware on the basis of it being better for gaming and don't care too much about that.

Early adoption first-world problems galore... this guy is really taking a loss. But, it's still too expensive. He is selling it for what should have been no-discount retail. https://www.overclock.net/posts/29386568/

Big Cinebench numbers was why I jumped on the 5950X bandwagon and that was the only thing I found it was good for. It was worse at everything else, on top of being a buggy mess. It would be good for me to learn from my own mistakes and just do nothing right now. The systems I currently own are the best I have ever had. I need to remind myself of this and not allow passion to cloud good judgment.

Indeed. I'm going to be less tempted now as well. True. First it was the newest Ryzen not performing better in games than last gen, but being special because it used less power. The dust on that drama hadn't even settled before Intel showed up with their new dud CPUs. Now kind of the same issue (maybe a little bit worse) with Intel bringing less performance but using less power. But, that's good. Maybe the AMD, Intel and motherboard manufacturers will lose enough money that they pull their heads out and start paying closer attention. Using less power isn't a win. It could potentially be a side benefit, but it's not important in the grand scheme of things if the performance is not a jump in the right direction. Ironically, both Zen 5 and Core Ultra beat their last generation counterparts in Cinebench, but not much else.

I fear they (manufacturers) have figured out that the gamerboys of the world are generally about as smart as a box of rocks and all they need to do is offer something shiny and new and they'll jump on it as long as it has rainbow puke. Newer is always better newer.

That is really tragic, and it looks like Intel is headed down that same path now. Sad days for sure. The lowest common denominators ruin everything they touch. I guess it wasn't enough for the losers of the world to turn everything in the laptop world to dung. I guess it might turn out to be a good thing that I loaded up on extra LGA-1700 motherboards and CPUs. They may end up being worth more than I paid for them, LOL. In a very unsettling way it feels like it did with people holding onto obsolete Alienware and Clevo laptops because everything new was anemic, pathetic, unacceptable trash.