Mr. Fox

This is informative for an Intel person trying to deal with the complexity of tuning a Ryzen platform. I found it useful. The levers and buttons might have different labels on them, but I expect some of this will be conceptually applicable to the non-monolithic contraptions we will see from Intel going forward. 😟😑 Bigger efforts with comparatively smaller rewards than what we have grown accustom to. I have a kit of the new G.SKILL 8000 Neo (Expo) heading my way. This will hopefully be well-suited for the Zen5 X870 platform and less effort needed for RAM overclocking. It seems that Ryzen does better with 16GB modules than it does with 24GB.

What is it and who is it going to? 27 pounds of awesomeness.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that I "transitioned over to AMD" at this point. That could happen still (as noted by @electrosoft in the post above yours) but not yet. The only reason(s) I considered this was because Core Ultra isn't an upgrade and I wanted to give AMD another chance to do something right in my eyes. I want both companies to be successful, but my preference among the platforms in my possession is still leaning in favor of Intel. But, only slightly. If the next generation of Core Ultra isn't better than what they gave us this time (in terms of P-core overclocking headroom and overall core/thread count) then that is going to make me think long and hard about what my future is for me with the Intel brand. What makes it dangerous for Intel is that overall I am satisfied with this "not Intel" setup so far and I am not a brand fanboy. I won't buy anything based on who manufactured it. That's dangerous for any company that doesn't produce products and services that I like or want because I don't care about any of them at a personal level, or their brand(s). I only care about what's in it for me. End of story. I do not "love" the way anything is going now. The 9950X and X870E seems very solid and performs really well, but it runs hot and doesn't have much overclocking headroom. At the end of the day I am in this only for overclocking and benching. If that goes the way of the dodo bird, then I am probably going to be done with considering myself a PC enthusiast. And, the Green Goblin, while producing the best flagship GPUs, are just dishonest pocket pirates and their GPUs kind of suck at overclocking now the same as Radeon GPUs do. Things could be better overall, and have been. Today's world is not a great place for those that love overclocking. There is far too much control over end user access, too much firmware castration, too many shenanigans and compromises going on with every brand now. I am eager to see if I can eek out a bit more from the 9950X after I have decapitated it and gone bare die. I am hoping I can get it to 57x or 58x all core. That's going to be a challenge, but it could happen. It probably needs more coldness than what a chiller can deliver to hit 60x all core. But, I could be wrong if the delid drops the temps as much as it does for Intel. I hope so. We shall see. My next build, if there even is one, will likely be something like your Dominus Xeon setup. That would be fun, and computers are just boring tools to me apart from this sport. Like hammers and screwdrivers.

That is a good plan. We both own the best already. Unless you're a gamer that wants to use opportunistic core boosting for single core 6.0GHz+ to degrade or kill your CPU and cook it with an air cooler or cheap AIO just because that is popular. In that case, maybe it's not the best option. Those kiddos should consider a console, i5 or entry-level X3D.

It's too early to say to what degree I like it. I can say that I don't "hate it" like I did the 5950X. I knew within 48 hours that the X570 Crosshair VIII Hero and 5950X purchase was a terrible choice with severe regrets. It's definitely not bad. Apart from higher Cinebench scores (where it clearly wins) I don't think it is as good overall as my LGA-1700 i9 CPUs are, but it's also not far behind. I can say that I am happier than I expected I would be. So far, so good. This would be the first AMD product that I can honestly say that I am pleased with, and I am very happy to be able to say that. It was very demoralizing to always be disappointed and feel like a sucker in the past. I have always desired for them to be successful and gave them chances to change my mind because it benefits everyone if both red and blue teams can be successful. I think they finally scored a win in my book without needing to be superior to the Apex and 14900KS. Close enough to be compelling for sure. As I grow more acquainted with things I will probably like it more than I do already, and I haven't identified anything terrible. It does have more functional limitations in terms of overclocking than my Intel systems have. I am being cautious about pushing it too far because I have no idea if Ryzen is resilient as Intel CPUs are and I don't want to kill it with my lack of experience with the platform. I suspect Core Ultra has even more functional limitations, so at this point I think it was a better decision than going with Core Ultra, but that could change with the next generation after Intel is done with the guinea pig phase. Am I going to delid it and run bare die? Hell yeah. Absolutely. It's way too hot to leave it how it is. Every bit as hot-running as 13900/14900K/KF/KS, and hotter at lower voltage and less watts. People complaining about overclocked Intel CPUs running hot haven't tried pushing their Ryzen 9 system to the edge yet, LOL. It runs very hot, just like the Intel CPUs do. It does run cooler stock, but that doesn't count because I don't give a rat's butt about that. I will probably order a der8auer Delid Die Mate and AMD Mycro direct die block in December or January, once I am done figuring out how things work. It's very different than what I am used to in terms of overclocking. I am not there yet. Hard to figure things out when there are so few AMD overclockers, and the few that there are don't share much in terms of technical knowledge. So far I haven't found any detailed overclocking tutorials like we are so used to seeing with Intel. Most of the threads with "overclocking" in the title are just people chewing the fat about gamer nonsense and very mediocre on the technical side of things. Everyone seems focused on playing games with very modest overclocking involved. I moved it from the test bench to the case where the Apex Encore was installed and I am preparing the Apex Encore and Velocita for their new owner(s). Someone we all know and love is getting a once in a lifetime sweet deal on some golden silicon. 🙂 I really like this Carbon motherboard and especially the new MSI BIOS design. It is very good. Here is a crummy smartphone photo. In spite of the poor image quality, the system looks really good. There are four things MSI could have done better on the mobo. First off, 4-DIMM DDR5 high end motherboards are stupid regardless of what platform or who makes them. So dumb. Second, the 8-pin PCIe auxillary power socket is in an idiotic place. I have a dual NVMe card in the bottom slot and I had to leave the heat sink off the NVMe closest to the motherboard because of interference. Second, the power and reset buttons at the bottom is less desirable than they would be at the top. On an open bench it does not matter. In a case it makes no sense having them there. The last thing was having two Gen5 M.2 slots. That was stupid. I have one Gen5 slot I can't use because I am not willing to cut the GPU down to x8 for the sake of having the slot filled. I still think it is a great motherboard and a good choice considering most of the alternatives are inferior or grossly overpriced (A$u$ pricing is as ludicrous as it gets.) A personal gripe is that it has WiFi 7, which is only a good thing if you plan to run Winduhz 11. There are no Windoze 10 drivers for WiFi 7, same as there are no Windows 7 drivers for WiFi 6. That sucks, but it's not an MSI issue. If I ever used WiFi (and I do not) I would be pulling the WiFi 7 module and replacing it with something older and more compatible with OSes I care about. Everything about you is special, and in a good way Brother @Rage Set. 🙂 Not the Dana Carvey "Church Lady" special, but awesome kind of special.

Well, I love my LGA-1700 i9 CPUs. They're the best. Literally. Guys like us do not need the newer-but-not-better "efficient" feces. This is a big brother power play. It's none of their business and they need to butt-out. But, we may not have to worry about the tree-hugger clown posse much longer because Sleepy Joe and Kamel Toe get booted soon. Their countless failures have been duly noted, measured and found wanting. You know that Big Tech is overrun with extreme left save the planet nutjobs, right? That's what is driving all of this irrational "efficiency" nonsense. They have to make electronics more efficient to offset the utterly ludicrous GOBS of electricity the electric cars they want to cram up all of our butts would leach off of the grid and drive everyone's electric bills into oblivion. As we know... can't fix stupid.

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. 🤣

Absolutely. 💯

To whatever degree it is helpful... this is TeamGroup Xtreme 8200.

Looks like the voltage readings are not accurate. 🤷‍♂️ https://hwbot.org/submission/5686971_ #2 https://hwbot.org/submission/5686976_ #4

Red, blue or purple... but no less dangerous.

https://hwbot.org/submission/5686810_

https://hwbot.org/submission/5686787_ https://hwbot.org/submission/5686781_

Same... beast mode in red and blue now, at least for the time being. Will see where Intel takes us. https://hwbot.org/submission/5686765_ Well... enough of the AIO. I installed the Heatkiller IV Pro block with some cooling line extensions (temporary) on QD3 fittings to connect to the same cooling system as the Apex. That way I do not need the entire system dedicated to one machine. Will do something more permanent later. This is still for testing. I must have overtightened the block because this was intially unstable until I backed off all four thumb nuts about 1 turn each. I also pulled the stock heating blankets off the RAM and dropped the memory temps about 10°C with them naked. My memory jackets for water cooling the RAM are on order, but are coming from China and make take a week or two. I already had the Bykski 4-DIMM block for the top from my DDR4 days.

That is very possible. I have a lot to learn about the platform and it is going to be a slower process because there is very little in terms of educational information and useful forum posts because there seems to be a dramatic shortage of overclocking enthusiast participation on AMD. Lots of stupid comments when people ask, such as "why are you overclocking, it doesn't need to be overclocked" or "overclocking is dead, just use it and enjoy it" and similarly idiotic nonense.

So far I am enjoying tinkering with the 9950X, but there is a different feel to it. Something feels limited in some way that is hard to pinpoint and it has a frustrating aspect to it. Some of it may just be how different and more inconvenient the tuning process is compared to what I am used to. I remember the 5950X feeling that way, but it was a whole lot more frustrating and buggy that this newer platform is. I knew within 48 hours that buying it was a tragic mistake and poor judgment on my part, but I don't feel that way so far with the 9950X. So far no regrets, but I haven't done anything but fumble around with CPU and memory overclocking to find my way around and explore what works and what doesn't. As we both mentioned before, these chips are not less hot-running that 13th or 14th Gen Intel. I am not sure where that myth came from. I am very quickly exhausting what little thermal headroom there is on a mainstream gamer AIO.

I've had zero degradation on any of my 13th or 14th Gen CPUs. They are the best CPUs I have ever owned to be honest, in spite of the fact that they include the baby E-cores instead of being all daddy P-cores. They are amazing in every way, but not suitable for use as a toy in the hands of the ignorant. Those I own are also cherry silicon samples and I returned plenty of crappy samples that were comparatively poor products. But, I don't use silly gimmicks like eTVB or allow run-away clocks, voltage and temperatures to ruin things like most noobs do. It was definitely Intel's fault for making defaults harmful, the same as it was for the Ryzen CPUs that were getting exploded (literally) and destroying the expensive new AM5 motherboards they blew up in from excessive voltage getting pushed to them. I think (hope) Intel and AMD both learned valuable lessons about how bad the idea of winning at all costs is concerned. I don't think it was accidental in either case as much as poor judgment. Like most things we read and hear about from the talking heads and shock jocks, a tiny bit of truth surrounded by whatever lies and distortions and convenient omissions they think might help get them the attention they thrive on. I take most things like that with a grain of salt with the understanding there is an agenda behind it.

Once things slow down and you have time to play with it I am sure you will give me a run for the money. I am having some funky epiphany/aha moments now thinking about all of the whining and crying gamerboys did about 13th and 14th Gen Intel CPUs running too hot and drawing too much power and this red beast isn't much better than the blue beast in that respect. Maybe a little bit, but hard to say since it's not overclocked as far yet and isn't getting as many volts dumped on it yet. It will be interesting to see how hot it gets and how much power it gulps if I can get it to 5.8-6.0GHz all core. I am betting that it will be just as hot and power-hungry. I guess the kiddies just need something to whine about, LOL. Of course, I guess people that overclock like us old-school diehards are rare now. All of the kiddos are trying to overclock by undervolting because that's what their friends on Facepoot and the YouBoob influencers tell them they should do.

I guess that is lucky for me that I don't really care much about single core performance. That is the main reason I gave 9950X a try. Otherwise the 285K would have been the better choice. It is a downgrade from everything else I own with not enough multi-thread mojo on top of being new with bugs that need to be ironed out first. I think I may have run single core Cinebench less than 10 times in my whole life, LoL.

Thank you. I've having to relearn everything that is for sure. I think I am getting way better results using fixed all core and manual voltage than PBO, which is actually exactly the same for me on Intel. eTVB and opportunistic core boost truly sucks. Here's my best so far... This is with the EK CR360 AIO. I am going to have to get the Heatkiller block on it until I buy a der8auer delid tool and Mycro bare die block. Brother @cylix it is the G.SKILL 8000 sticks that my Ryzen setup does not like. I put in the TeamGroup Xtreme 48GB kit and it boots and runs 8200 like a champ. Interesting. There must be something in the G.SKILL 8000 SPD default settings that causes it to fail to POST on Ryzen. What makes it ever more odd is the G.SKILL sticks run identical to the TeamGroup Xtreme in the Apex Encore. No differences in performance, settings or voltage. I just put the G.SKILL memory on the Apex Encore and *BOOM* there it is! The G.SKILL 8000 kits (both of them) have always worked fantastic. I only bought the TGX because it has no RGB and they're covered up with waterblocks so RGB may as well not exist.

Maybe this will help. Still not great considering what we are used to, but a MASSIVE improvement over where I started last night. That was pretty scary how bad it was. I've seen people that are ignorant about memory tuning with latency this bad on Intel. I'm pretty sure I can do better than this. Just now getting started in the process. Nothing works the same as Intel. Shake the Etch-A-Sketch and start over. Besides the latency, 8000 is comparatively very slow read/write/copy speeds on Ryzen.

Maybe Brother @chew can give us some pointers. My latency is lower than that but still very high. This seems a whole lot more convoluted that what I am used to. I think all the sliders and knobs have to be just right or it behaves badly, LOL. I getting closer to finding out where the sliders and knobs belong. Little by little. I think I am going to test my TeamGroup Xtreme 8200 48GB kit on this. No idea why the motherboard will not even try to boot with the G.SKILL 8000 48GB kit. It doesn't even try to boot. Just stops abruptly after about 1 second with Q-code 15 and CPU and RAM LEDs on.

I was pretty blunt in my response about how ugly it looks. https://community.hwbot.org/topic/239385-hwbot-new-gui-feedback-thread/?do=findComment&comment=680164

OK, I think maybe I am starting to get the hang of things a little better. I still need to catch up with Brother @Raiderman but I'm not as lost as when I gave up around 1:30 AM and went to bed, LOL. Ryzen is still as finnicky as it was with the 5950X, but this is an improvement from where it was for sure. Side note: Glad I don't give a hoot about WiFi. I guess WiFi 7 is a Winduhz 11-only piece of feces. No thanks. Stuff it, Micro$lop. @Papusan how do you like the icky new smartphone crap look of HWBOT? I submitted this and almost threw up in my mouth a little bit. Part of me wants to send a PM to Roman (der8aer) at oc.net and ask him why he allowed that. Everything is so big and bloated and ugly now. Things on the web page take up about 200% more browser space that necessary. Super idiotic. https://hwbot.org/submission/5685453_