Mr. Fox

Fanboys of any sort are hard to respect. I have a lot more respect for people that have no issues calling balls and strikes and are not afraid to tell someone their baby is ugly, as long as they give credit when it is due regardless of brand. There is a list of pros and cons for everything.

https://browser.geekbench.com/ai/v1/155172 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5716615_ 3DMark11 Physics Only (CPU) https://hwbot.org/submission/5716585_

That's interesting. I wonder why? Production issues? Or a NewEgg issue? Edit: It looks like a production (stock availability) issue for both Ryzen 9 CPUs and the 9800X3D. AMD has only the undesirable Ryzen 7 models and below available on their web store. The good CPU supply is gone. https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-cpu-wider-availability-next-quarter/

Always measure results, not marketing information. I am interested if the consistency (viscosity) is better and anticipate the cooling will be what it always is for liquid metal. Darn it, you caught me. I need to update the logo.

I agree. Silly to pay a lot for something like this. I recently ordered these. Looks like they're essentially the same with a different brand name on the outside. They are tightly spun and less fuzzy than regular cotton swabs. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WDH7TW3 I will post something when the time comes. They offer a 5 gram tube but it is over $40. That is a ton of liquid metal and a reasonable price considering how much, but I ordered the 1.5g for a whole lot less money just to see how it works before I order a ton of it. I pay less attention to the W/mK ratings than I used to because they are often not an accurate indicator of how the product works. I think some of the companies in China just make stuff up and put it in their product information because they know they'll never need to provide proof to support what they print. I tried some thermal paste recently that had a very high W/mK rating and it was rubbish. I got it at no cost and will use it for temporary application purposes on something I know will be taken apart again.

That's pretty sweet. Loving that Cinebench score. Show us some photos when you can. Try setting the XMP profile and increase the voltage to like 1.500V for the memory and see if that works. I find XMP profiles often need more voltage than what they set by default.

I have not seen this liquid metal before. Looks very interesting--especially the higher viscosity part--so I ordered some to try the next time I need to take something apart. It seems like over the years that liquid metal formulas have changed and have a lower viscosity than they used to, and I think that makes it more likely to drip or run. (The original Liquid Ultra was much thicker than Conductonaut, then they changed it and made it extra watery.) It looks like they use more indium and silver in their formula. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CJ9QGDFV They have some other products on their web site.

Happy to do it, brother. So, here is an interesting story. The Z790 Edge system that I use for work has been randomly having an issue where it would hang during POST and just get stuck with the white LED on. After several attempts to boot it up it would always fail the same way, but then it would always suddenly decide to function normally right before I was about to give up. This has been going on randomly for like 90 days. Really has been annoying. So, Friday evening and multple times Saturday the Carbon starts doing the exact same thing. I'm like "what the heck is going on" and so I flipped the KVM over to the Edge and it's doing the same thing, at the same time. Turns out it was my Roccat Vulkan 120 keyboard. I use the same keyboard, mouse and monitors for those two systems and switch back and forth using the KVM. I tested with a cheap old keyboard I hang onto for stuff like this and it worked fine with both machines. Hooked up the Roccat again and instantly both machines start doing the same hanging during POST again. So, I grabbed a Corsair K70 Core at Walmart and I'm back in business. I got it because it was cheap ($65) and better than any of the off-brand Chinese trash on Amazon for the same price. Turns out the K70 Core is a really nice entry-level mechanical keyboard. And, one nice thing about it is once I program my bright white backlighting and save it directly to the keyboard I am done. No need for crappy software bloat to manage the rainbow puke. The keyboard has three onboard profiles and I made them all the same thing so that it doesn't matter what profile is loaded... the outcome will always be white LED at max brightness. I like it better than my older and more expensive Corsair keyboards that I used for years until they finally died. The old Corsair K's had a habit of forgetting my settings and reverting back to the spastic animated rainbow puke. The Core also has a nice tactile response without being overly clicky. In fact, it doesn't click at all. It mostly has a dull "thud" sound. I like it. (It has Corsair MLX Red linear switches.) I guess I'll throw the Roccat Vulkan in the trash. That's going to make some people happy that hated how clicky and loud it was. It was quite annoying to some folks during teleconferences.

It gave me ample time to wonder whether I was making a terrible mistake. I am glad it was not, LOL. 🤣

That's absolutely awesome, bro. I am excited that you are getting into that. I look forward to seeing what kind of cool creations you come up with. LOL, not really but I am willing to help a friend (any friend) when the opportunity exists. If I do too many I might develop an repetitive stress injury. To get the IHS off of mine I had to shift the IHS back and forth like 75 or 80 times. I can see why Roman uses a cordless drill with an allen bit now. I am not going to do that, but the thought did cross my mind when I was tightening and loosening the screws that many times. A one point I wondered if it was going to actually turn loose. Then it did. It moves such a small distance each direction that it is not hard to understand why it was tedious. It didn't make any unsettling noises like I sometimes hear when shoving an Intel IHS off the die in one uninterrupted motion. It is absolutely worth doing though. The thermal improvement is no less dramatic than it is with an Intel CPU. Maybe even a little bit more since the CCD chiplets are so small. It's too bad that was not true with the 5950X delid. Part of it is likely the Mycro Pro direct die block. That thing is amazing.

I obviously cannot speak to the W790 platform based on actual experience, but I think the logic would remain constant, in that 1DPC will always be better than more per channel in terms of overclocking and latency simply because of the extra traces, longer traces and noise the extra channels add that impair overclocking and add latency. The higher the memory clock goes, the more harmful the added DIMMs per channel become. The mere existence of the extra slots is what is detrimental... moreso than whether or not the slots are populated with memory sticks.

I am not certain of it, but I believe it is a matter of changing hardware. What makes the Heatkiller my favorite is how well it is made. The shouldered screws that fit nicely into the thick metal brackets is just very satisfying on top of it working well. It's the kind of product I would make for myself if I had the milling and fabrication machinery. You could put it in a sock and wield it as a lethal weapon, LOL. No matter how you deal with it, switching between Intel and AMD blocks is going to be a pain in the butt. Better to just use QDC fittings on the water lines and swap out the entire assembly rather than farting around with swapping brackets. I'm not a big fan of universal fit components. Purpose fit is usually better. Alphacool Core 1 is a good option, but I haven't owned one. I almost purchased one for the X870E Carbon and went with the Heatkiller instead. When two products perform roughly the same then I choose based on what is more aesthetically pleasing to me and did that here. Plus I knew it was only going to be very, very temporary. I would either be returning the AMD CPU and motherboard because of dissatisfaction with the platform or I would be delidding and going to bare die. Both of my Thermal Grizzly Mycro Pro direct die blocks are awesome. They perform as well as the IceMan blocks (which are utterly amazing) but have the der8auer edge on engineering and aesthetics. That elitist German focus on over-engineering is hard not to love. I find it very hard to enjoy owning CPUs that haven't been decapitated. I'm spoiled forever on bare die temperature reductions.

It reflects badly on NZXT for sure. But, I think it reflects even more negatively on the people that signed up for such an idiotic idea, because they lacked common sense to such a degree that they could not recognize how stupid and fiscally foolish it was. Taking advantage of stupidity isn't nice, but it is not the same as using deception, fraud and treachery to mislead otherwise intelligent people into believing your lies. They didn't do that here, they just took advantage of idiots. Bad, but not the same magnitude of crime. Being stupid is a tragic thing.

While I find it very difficult to believe, there are actually some people that actually like how Winduhz 11 looks. Many of us think it is repulsive and find it disgusting. Unfortunately, there are some people that want their Linux distro to look like Winduhz 11 or Mac OS and some have gone to the effort to make desktops environments that are designed to do that. The nice thing with Linux is if you don't like it you do not have to put up with it, and changing it is very easy compared to remediating the aesthetic abortion in Windows.

I have all of those mentioned and the XSPC Photons are hands down my favorite based on how they are designed. That said, the Eisbecher Auroras are very nice and well built. Beware of the Photon X4 units. They are made well, but they use a proprietary XSPC pump. Otherwise, they look the same as a D5 and function the same, but good luck finding a replacement X4 pump if you need one. Titan Rig has Photons on sale 25% off. https://www.titanrig.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Photon

Maybe we can add to our expressions of disdain for who they are and how they do things by calling them Micro$heist or Micro$cheiße. The older Micro$lop just doesn't seem to be as derrogatory or contemptuous as they deserve.

I failed to notice that Brother @Clamibot was having issues specifically with Cinebench R15. I hardly ever run R15 so that might be why I was not connecting the dots. I use R20 and R23 95% of the time. I agree the problem is most likely Windoze being a garbage OS and not the CPU or Cinebench. And, R15 is probably old enough that the stooges at Micro$lop don't care if it works correctly with their modern garbage OSes.

The Heatkiller Pro IV CPU waterblocks are amazing. I actually like them as much as the Optimus CPU blocks. My favorite D5 pump/res units are the XSPC Photon (getting hard to find) and the Alphacool units. Both have thick glass tubes, which is the only way to fly. Steer clear of acrylic reservoir tubes as they crack and scratch too easily. The XSPC Photon glass tubes are insanely thick glass and molded with threads on each end that literally screw onto the pump body and end cap on the Photon tubes. They cannot separate over time and leaks are not even a thing. Likewise, the Alphacool Eisbecher Aurora have 4 metal rods to keep the glass tube sandwiched between the top and pump body. Avoid any that simply rely on rubber o-ring compression like rigid tubing compression fittings. They are bad about leaking and internal loop pressure pushing the top off the tube (Primochill D5 pump/res for example). XSPC Photon D5 Alphacool Eisbecher Aurora D5

I have never had that issue before. Are you using one of the saved BIOS profiles or testing your own? You should be getting like 43-44K easily in CBR23 with one of saved profiles unless it is just getting too hot. Unless there is some kind of error elsewhere causing Cinebench to malfunction. https://hwbot.org/submission/5546221 https://hwbot.org/submission/5546469 That iTX motherboard and 4070 look SO TINY in that big Enthoo case, LOL.

For the AMD owners here... give me a shout if you need to do this. Similar to the issue of getting a new Intel ME cancer payload with a BIOS update, it doesn't go back to the old AMD SMU with a flash downgrade, but there is a way of doing it. (Got the info from Svet at MSI forum and have tested it three times with success.)

Intel cores run at MUCH higher clock speeds stock, overclock better and the memory latency is lower, along with data transfer speeds that are much higher. Or, should we say used to. Then came the Intel Core Ultra chiplet abortion and flushed it all down the toilet. Like a marathon runner that has a decent lead in a race deciding to stab himself in the calf with an ice pick just for the hell of it.

I am going to stick with the Carbon. It's solid. MSI always leaves a few things to be desired, but produce an overall decent product. I'd like to steer myself away from ASUS if that is possible. I've given them enough money alread. I've got the Taichi boxed up and ready to submit my RMA. Carbon is back in use.

One thing that I really like about it (not enough to forgive the issues) is the in-BIOS control of the lighting. I can make all of the RGB static white and save it in the BIOS. It should be mandatory that all motherboard firmware include that feature. The A-Tuning software also works well, and the per-CCD core ratio manual overclocking works correctly (broken in the MSI firmware). I am not going to try another one. The fact there is so little meaningful engagement in that ASRock X870 thread at oc.net suggests to me that nobody has a good one, or the people buying it are still content with point-and-click DDR5-6000. Neither of those are inspiring.

I have not. I will have to check it out. Edit: Wow. Shameful. Seems like shady and scummy is the new standard for all aspects of computer technology. Sad that NZXT is part of it. The trick of the day would be finding a brand that is good enough to not be shady and scummy. I don't think there is one.

Sounds like you're having as much fun as i have in the last 24 hours. I was planning to return the Carbon and replace it with the Taichi, but so far I am very unimpressed with the lack of memory stability with the Taichi. It has a lot going for it but that, in and of itself, is a deal-breaker. Not sure why, but it is not stable and has a lot worse latency in comparison. I wasted 16 hours yesterday trying to get it stable. Memory training takes 3 or 4 times longer than the Carbon and has 10ns more latency using the same memory timings. @cylix the no-lane sharing benefit of the Taichi means nothing. Here is the gotcha: If you use the second x16 slot for anything the GPU runs x8. Not being able to use my x4 PCIe add-card means I ended up losing NVMe storage capacity in spite of being able to use all M.2 slots without affecting the GPU. Using the PCIe slot on the Carbon does not cut the GPU bandwidth to x8. That allows me to install up to four NVMe in a x4 PCIe add-in card. So, the Taichi EATX motherboard essentially offers nothing in terms of expansion options than what you get with an ITX motherboard. Very disappointed with the poor overall functionality of this motherboard so far and will most likely return it and keep the Carbon. The opposite of what I expected. Edit: yeah, have tested every available BIOS and this thing is just pure trash. Not sure if it is the one I received or the product in general. Definitely going to RMA/refund on this and go back to the Carbon. It unequivocally sucks at memory overclocking like nothing I have ever seen. Rubbish.