Mr. Fox

Indeed. Leaving the VDDQ TX voltage on auto seems to increase latency. I totally forgot about that. I can run it like 1.275V on the Dark, but if I bump it to 1.400V my latency drops to ~50ns and the L2 and L3 cache speeds increase. I keep forgetting this for some reason. I discovered it months ago when you made the comment to me about how low it was (before I purchased the Z790 Apex). As you can see, at only 8200 this is within strking distance to 8600 on the Apex and look how high the write and copy speeds are, with 50.3 ns latency. And, that is less than 1.500V memory voltage. The 48GB 8000 kits won't boot with timings this tight. You have to loosen up a lot of them with the 48GB A-die.

There are many things I have always believed, and with a few things it is less of a belief now and more of an observation of fact. A belief is something you expect to be true that may not be supported by tangible evidence. It may be 100% true and accurate, but you cannot always produce tangible evidence that establishes it as being an indisputable fact that remains in the absence of belief or acceptance. Two things, in particular, I no longer need to believe because the evidence dispels any element of doubt or uncertainty. The human race is characterized by two natural traits that are only overcome by a desire or compulsion to do what is unnatural. Human beings are born evil and stupid, and will perfect both of those character flaws to the point of severity unless they are trained to be the exact opposite. The answer to your question is "because they are evil and stupid" and the surplus of stupidity among those accepting of them yields the outcome they seek. Amen to that. And, very much in alignment with the above. It does not matter if anyone disagrees or does not believe it is true because the evidence demands a verdict in spite of anything a fanboy may want to believe to the contrary. Optimism in what they want to believe when faced with facts to the contrary highlights their abject and unforgivable stupidity. It is not open to debate and it cannot be fixed. The only thing left to decide is how long you are going to tolerate it before you drive a wooden stake through its chest.

With the 24GB modules, EVGA released one BIOS update to accommodate them before "getting out of the business" and letting their firmware team go. I doubt there will be any more firmware updates and I think I might be seeing the firmware not being optimized for the new 24GB modules. So, no on the CPU and motherboard, but probably yes on the firmware. The 13900KS in the Dark came out of the Apex and it has a stronger IMC than the one in the Apex. The 13900K (sitting on a shelf) is not as good on the P and E core bin, but the IMC on that CPU is stronger than both of the 13900KS. CPU overclocking on all three CPUs is very noticably better on the Dark using the 16GB A-die than it is on the Apex, but the memory overclocking is better on the Apex with the 24GB A-die modules. The 16GB A-die modules overclock better on the Dark than they do on the Apex. It is difficult to get them stable on the Apex using recent firmware. This is the older A-die (16GB generic modules). Doing this with the newer 24GB A-die modules (G.SKILL or TG) is more difficult and finicky with the newer modules, and I believe that is due to firmware not being optimized for them. The opposite is true for the Apex. It is optimized for the 24GB modules and not the 16GB. It takes less to upset the apple cart with the 16GB modules and the timings can be run much tighter. As a result of the tighter timings, the read/write/copy speeds and latency are better with the 16GB modules at a couple hundred MHz less compared to the Apex.

No, I have decided that it was very silly for me to spend money on something that technically isn't an upgrade. I dont need the extra 16GB so I am not going to burn any more calories tuning something I have no real use for. These sticks seem to work pretty much the same as the G.SKILL and I don't want to mess with the Apex. It's working as I want it to work and if I start messing with it that could change. I think I am going to use the money for something actually useful instead of the memory kit that I don't need.

That is a very "NVIDIA" move on Intel's part.

Nah... slept on it and do not need to think longer. No overclocking benefit over what I already have. The looser timings and higher voltage are worth mentioning. I don't need the extra 16GB. Sending it back for a refund makes the most sense. It deserves mention that the T-Create modules have dual XMP profiles; the mediocre 7200 and an even more mediocre 6000.

Well, not a bad kit. Quality is fine. The advertisement (even on the box) of a "one piece design" on the heatsink is just straight-up false. It is two pieces. The seam is not obvious at a glance and it looks like one piece. Not sure I am going to keep it because it is not remarkably better than the RAM I took out of the Dark. It runs the same memory overclock as the G.SKILL kit on the Apex. I will think about it for a day or two. Not really gaining anything for the money spent. The 16GB*2 generic green A-die sticks are basically just as good. The only measurable benefit, which may not even matter in the grand scheme of things, is the extra 16GB of memory capacity. The extra capacity is worth something, but I am not sure that is a good enough basis for keeping versus RMA/refund. Here is the XMP default. Here is the memory overclock matching the Apex. If I keep it then, of course, it will have the heating blankets removed and the water-cooling kit on the generic A-die sticks will be installed on them. Just a matter of whether or not I decide it is worth the extra money and associated hassle. I'm kind of leaning toward "no" but we will see if I change my mind in a few days. I gained nothing on overclocking capacity, but also didn't lose anything except the slightly tighter timings possible with the 16GB first-generation A-die modules.

I hope the latter is true. If they want to be taken as seriously as EVGA was by enthusisasts, they'll need to not waste a lot of time and energy with mainstream consumer garbage, at least in the enthusiast space products if they plan to dominate there. And, they'll need to provide a warranty as good as EVGA provided for those products. The three to 6+ weeks turn-around time on warranty service, with outbound shipping paid by the victim, as we have come to expect from ASUS, is totally unacceptable. Taking a wait-and-see approach and only building/selling what is popular and sells well, as smart as it might be, is not very likely. It would be difficult to find fault with it, though.

Man, dude is really ripping on AMD here, but if it's true, it's true. I don't know and don't intend to find out.

I would expect they are very good, hence the name of them and the absence of RGB. Only way to know is to buy a kit and see. RMA if they are trash. Mr. Potty-Mouth Jufus the Dufus swears by them. Mine are supposed to be here on Sunday. I will know within 15 minutes if I am keeping them or sending them back for a refund. I have several saved memory profiles to apply that will tell me almost instantly if they are gems or junk. Removing the heatsinks by soaking them in lacquer thinner is very easy if they are good enough to keep.

The Z690 Apex had, and my Z790 Apex has coil whine when severely stressing the memory. The Z690 Unify-X never did and the Dark does not. I can no longer hear it as well with the Supercool water cooling parts so I am assuming it is either the G.SKILL modules, the lower temperature of water-cooled memory, or the added mass of the liquid cooling parts is helping to suppress or dampen the sound on the Apex. If I had it to do over again, I would get the non-RGB 48GB TeamGroup T-Create Expert A-die kits in 7200 or higher. G.SKILL stuff is hit or miss, like ASUS. Random examples of the exact same part number that are either really good or just crap. TeamGroup QC has always seemed very consistent to me, and the absence of RGB on memory modules makes it even better. I really hate RGB memory. It's so stupid. I believe you are right. RGB is the most important thing to some people. Unfortunately, the PC component manufacturers know this and cater to that group. Probably because they know the bar is set much lower and it is easier for them to avoid failure if they pretend that RGB is the most important thing. If those people like how it looks, they'll most likely never know that what they bought can just barely run the XMP profile with stability (if even that much is possible).

And, we see the opposite on the spectrum of dispicability in the land of fruits and nuts. There is no bottom for the filthiness of humanity, yet they always somehow find a way to remain bottom-feeders. Theft is the new normal for the world's lowest common denominators and it goes both ways, depending on where you live. I wonder how many 4090's have been stolen in California? Off the store shelves and the entire truckloads of 4090's that never made it that far? Yay blue team... not. Sorry, but sometimes" engage at will and shoot to kill" is the only solution to an otherwise unsolvable problem.

All set up and ready for work tomorrow. I like it. https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/30861870/fs/28566515/fs/28913495/fs/30923735 It fixed the following issues I had with 6900 XT: Windows and Linux always rebooting versus shut down (had to hold power button to power off PC) Micro$lop Office text rendering (disappearing text) while typing DWM transparency not functional when sharing desktop (RocketDock icons and desktop icons would have white background where transparent edges should be) Excessive GPU driver CPU and RAM resource consumption when no work is being done

Dang it, that's really messed up. Such a nicely-binned CPU should function much better. It goes to show what a critical role the motherboard plays and the degree to which ASUS botched it up. Their slogan should be "For those who are dumb" instead of " For those who dare" LOL. Was it equally horrid on the original 901 firmware? I have not found any real benefits and generally a reduction in performance in newer ASUS firmware versions, especially in CPU benchmarks like Cinebench and wPrime. I have rarely identified any benefit to their firmware updates and the release notes that say things like "improves memory performance" are generally untrue. It is unfortunate, even diabolical, that we find examples of interference with end-user autonomy to roll back to any firmware version they choose to flash, and disgusting that they block all ME version rollbacks and provide no option to disable that worthless trash. It seems like m-ATX and ITX mirror the trend of paying more and getting less, just like turdbooks. Unless there is a legitimate need for size reduction, it seems kind of like a misguided build option due to the generally inferior and grossly overpriced selection. Do you still have the MSI Z790i? If it works correctly, spending money on anything from ASUS is probably like flushing money down the toilet.

💯 exactly that. If you do you can expect more of the same. As a side benefit, I also saved enough going the A770 route that it will cover a big chunk of the cost of a second-hand AK-47 I am going to try to snag.

I will need to have one custom made. EK made one for the Intel "reference" but discontinued it. I did not buy one of those, and I am not sure if the PCB is the same. I think it's not. https://www.newegg.com/asrock-arc-a770-a770-pg-16go/p/N82E16814930102?Item=N82E16814930102 Here is the place in France that makes waterblocks. https://hybridcooling-modding.fr/waterblock-custom# https://hybridcooling-modding.fr/waterblock-custom#/93-top-acrylique_transparent/131-usinage_prioritaire-non/279-cold_plate-enhanced_coldplate_80_microcannaux/280-plaque_inter-plaquage_noir/138-passage_ldr-4_x_g1_4

LOL, Brother @Papusanyou need two of these for your Galax 4090. Maybe they will not catch on fire. Too stupid.

My system started feeling laggy with the last Adrenaline update and it looks like the AMD Control Panel thing has a memory leak now. It was consuming around 30% of my memory and about 5% CPU utilization with the system otherwise idle. It was a challenging decision because 4060/4070 Ti are more enticing, but I knew I did not want to spend double the price of the A770 for less than double the performance. The chintzy cut-down memory bus on the Green Goblin's baby-girl wuss GPU offerings really pisses me off. That was a deliberate ploy to nudge people away from the cheaper options and put more distance between the 4090 and everything else. Even though the weaker siblings perform quite well in spite of the castrated memory bus, it still pisses me off pretty bad because I know the unnecessary and nefarious intentions behind it. So, common sense prevailed and I spent half as much on what should get the job done without any more basic functionality issues. If I don't like it, then I will RMA it and buy something better. I am hoping to love it and I am approaching the idea with a belief that I will. Seems promising. If all goes well it will make the idea of embracing Battlemage feel more natural and alluring. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on Linux, too. Something different to play with. I found a place in France that fabricates custom GPU blocks for reasonable prices. I may look into that option as well.

It will be interesting to play with, but it is going in my work PC. More than anything else, I need it to be reliable and not have the issues with text rendering in M$ Office and DWM being spastic when I screen share.

The only thing more surprising, alarming and disappointing is the sad fact that 30% of the idiots on the planet prefer crApple's trash. The Redmond Reprobates are their own worst enemy. Their failures are a direct result of their inability to know, or the desire to care, what most users of their products want.

That is not representative of how they compare overall. In many, if not most things, the 7900 XTX trails the 4090 by more than a small margin and trades blows with the 4070 Ti and 4080. If ray tracing is involved, the gap widens further. AMD resolution scaling is less effective and image quality is comparatively poor overall. Nothing comes close to comparing with the 4090 in terms of performance, or being absurdly overpriced. Everything desirable (high end) that is offered by AMD and NVIDIA is grossly overpriced and, to some degree, similarly overrated. That is why I ordered an Arc A770 to replace the 6900 XT. The superior alternatives are a poor value and too expensive for what you get in return for the money spent.

It is tragic and criminal that so many turdbooks are reliant on feces like Armory Crate, Dragon Center, Clevo Control Center, Alienware Command Center and similar dung to have functionality. Armory Crate is probably the worst example of digital rubbish that I have ever seen. A picture says 1,000 words. Head on a swivel, boys... head on a swivel. Removal means removal... as in gone without a trace. Uninstalling is never enough to perfect the exorcism.

The Encore offers less by all measurements. The only benefit it provides is the superior black aesthetic. Everything else about it and the parts it comes with (or perhaps we should say DOES NOT come with) is a downgrade. You pay the same price to get your posterior orifice molested. I was immediately suspicious and smelling a rat when they released it and availability was good. Another mass production piece of crud from their slop bucket, but this time designed from the bottom up to deceive all who buy it. This is par for the course with Asus though. They're a despicable company and stand out as the evil prince in an industry ruled by thieves and pirates.

Armory Crate a horrible program that sucks the life out of your system, but avoiding it may be nearly impossible on a laptop to have full functionality. I allow it to install itself on my disposable crash dummy cancer OS, but it is banned on the OSes I use for benching and gaming. Armory Crate has pieces of itself baked into the BIOS. It will prompt you to install on a clean OS install with no internet connection and no network adapter drivers installed. If you do not allow it to install itself on a clean operating system install It is more likely to have issues with stability and/or not even functioning at all. The only place to download it that is hypothetically safe is directly from the Driver Suppprt page for your laptop on the Asus website. I say hypothetically because Asus is not a trustworthy company. Anything that comes from China should be viewed as suspicious and potentially dangerous. Caution and skepticism are advised.