electrosoft

10 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I played COD Modern Warfare (2023) for just over 2 hours this evening with the GPU overclocked +100 core, +1400 memory, +100mV and pulling over 380W yet temps were perfect. Not even close to getting hot. Max temps were core 54.2°C, memory 58°C and hot spot 62.6°C. That's fantastic for an air cooled GPU with an overclock. Now I just have to pop the lid off of this SP117 CPU and run it bare die so I can clock it higher that 5.7GHz without it getting too hot under a severe load like Cinebench.

Looks like with the maxed out settings and ray tracing candy cranked the GPU was using almost 15GB of vRAM.

 

Gigabyte is known for slapping on some monster size air coolers on some of their cards. I said it before and I'll say it again. While I do not care for their motherboards, their GPUs are solid. Remove the idiot factor of users not using a sag bracket/GPU standoff when your eyes can clearly see monstrous sag with some of these behemoths, and they are very solid.

 

8 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 Then again, you could have just sat on your 3090 a little longer..

 

I would respectfully suggest that you tune out the 4090 bros here for now and focus on the house, instead of dropping extra $800 on a GPU in an untimely fashion. Have you budgeted all the spend after you complete? Frankly if you even take a little break from gaming as a result, you will be more than OK - trust me. Anyway, GPU prices and availability should improve in the weeks to come (would be my guess), so you will likely be rewarded for your patience.

 

Agreed. If you have it to spend on LUXURY items (IE, not needed but for personal enjoyment) or can properly budget it without paying any interest, go for it. If you don't, then don't and address your financial priorities/responsibilities.

 

I refuse to pay interest on anything. If I can't afford it, I don't get it. I even buy my cars outright. A house is a different scenario though but even then....

 

I thought sticking with the KPE 3090 was the smart move if you're not getting a 4090.

 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

Yeah the 4090 idea was just a thought of hmmmm 🤨 🧐 “Evil laughter moment” after returning the 4080 Super, and getting the opportunity to spin the wheel again lol. I recouped some and saved and budgeted the rest to be able to buy the 4080 Super so it wouldn’t affect me financially, so I’m not spending money on credit cards etc, or pulling from our main savings account, I can afford to own and keep a 4080 Super 🙂. It’s really just the simple fact that I really hate the card I originally bought on launch day, and I think I was trying to make my self love it and make do lol. If it was my mind set just a few years ago I’d be stacking the remainder 4090 balance on a credit card 😆

 

Once Newegg refunds me, I’m just gonna order a Suprim X 4080 Super. Thats more inline with what I’m after. Big effective air cooler, waterblock options available, free mouse pad, I need a new one anyways. 
 

I’m really looking forward to moving most of all though, I’m going to have my own office in a new home on my own land which is something I’ve been wanting since starting the “Work at home” thing in 2020. Me and my wife have been working hard for this for years now. We have been renting the same place for like 7 years now, which is a partially remodeled double wide home that was originally built in 1986. But it barely has air conditioning, slow leaking roof, mold growing in some of the closets anytime we have our landlords fix something they increase our rent. In my state they can continue increasing rent with no limit for no reason. So we’ve been more or less working towards saving money and building up our finances so we can buy a new home which is pretty costly in 2024 with how expensive things are. But it’s all good, I’m prepared for that. 

 

Outside of some scenarios, patience usually provides the optimal rewards. My dad always said, "the more you feel rushed to buy or especially someone rushes you to buy, the more you wait." and I've always used that approach when purchasing anything and it has only failed me a few times in life (IE, something that is clearly an already killer value and I should have just bought it immediately versus waiting).

 

Funny about the house. We used to own a monster sized two story + basement house w/ a pool and once my daughter grew up and moved, we downsized to a double wide for efficiency and it has provided insane savings across the board versus a house with much less square footage to clean and upkeep and a cozier existence for just the two of us. My wife's parents did the same thing over 20yrs ago. They sold the family home and moved into a very nice double wide.

 

We have discussed maybe meeting in the middle and getting a small rancher but the ease and convenience can't be beat. Be prepared for much higher costs and upkeep across the board.

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

You know, since I’m returning this 4080 Super anyways, it has got me kinda thinking lol. I could save a little more and get a 4090 lol.

 

LOL..... x 1000. 🤣

 

This is why I like you @tps3443 always easy going and funny with comic relief material for days. 🙂

 

But in all seriousness, get the 4090.

 

If/When I get a 5090, I will have used this 4090 for over two years and extracted maximum value. If you get a 4090 now with Blackwell looking more and more likely drifting into 2025, you will get well over a year or more from the 4090 with options to spare how you want to address the 5000 series.

 

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

 

Good. All things considered, and as much I've learned about you over the years, I didn't think a 4080 Super would suffice. I am in the same boat as you with buying a house and if you get a 4090, that means I will get one too. You're making the decision for the both of us, hahaha. No pressure. 

 

Looks like sound logic to me! 🤣

 

Two for the price of one....engage!

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

This just in:

https://www.reuters.com/technology/amazon-steers-consumers-higher-priced-items-lawsuit-claims-2024-02-09/

 

I'm shocked....shocked I say! /s

 

It just continues to double down on the "corporations are not your friend" mantra.

 

 

 

 

52 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Here I see prices ranging £960-1060 (gigab…, Zotac, Palit, Inno3D). Taking the exchange rate and tax into account, these are roughly USD prices ex sales tax. The question is whether availability of $1000 4080S' will affect demand for 4090s, given that scuMVidia clearly nerfed the former (more cores etc. - same performance). 
 

4090 stock to boot BTW starting at £1720 (Palit) and £1750 (our Gigab… friends again). The rest (MSI etc) generally in £1800-2000 range. 

 

I can also see some US stock around $1800

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-4090-gv-n4090gaming-oc-24gd/p/N82E16814932550?Item=N82E16814932550

 

https://www.newegg.com/pny-geforce-rtx-4090-vcg409024tfxpb1/p/N82E16814133849?Item=9SIBN7EJY04295

 

 

 

Yeah, it seems $1720(MC) and $1800 (NE) is the new "entry level" pricing for 4090s now. Many of those cards were $1600-$1650 on launch.

 

Microcenter and to a degree Best Buy will always show you want the fair MSRP current pricing is in the US. Newegg and Amazon are just garbage with even Newegg getting in on the scalping (aka supply/demand).

 

MSI Suprim Liquid 4090 was $1749.99 at launch and it is now $1939 at MC $2299 at Newegg (shipped by but sold by....odd).

 

Best Buy has many models listed at their original MSRP but they are never in stock. The only ones that come into stock are the pricier models or models that have had their MSRPs increased.

 

Newegg is just scummy with their opportunistic price gouging even shipped and sold from newegg. They continue to grossly inflate their prices even compared to other sellers.

 

14 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Big-box retailers might be more inclined to fall in line with MSRP recommendations, but I do not believe "marketplace" sellers on Amazon, NewEgg and fleaBay will ever conduct business in an honorable fashion and they will always have a place in the scalper hall of shame until stupid people stop opening their wallets and helping them thrive. If people will stop being stupid, the scalpers won't be successful and will have no option other than finding another shady way of making a buck. Right now we are probably seeing some degree of "monkey-see, monkey-do" shenanigans playing out at the retailer level. If dummies are willing to pay scalper ransoms, the retailers (at least some of them) are going to juice their prices a little bit, just because they can, while not resembling the absurd scalper pricing.

 

The only common retailers that are consistently above-board and respectable with pricing are Micro Center, NewEgg (sold and shipped by NewEgg, non-marketplace), B&H and Best Buy. As a result, they are often sold out on popular products. Micro Center is arguably the best of the best, but they're of zero value to anyone that doesn't live within driving distance of a store. They don't allow online purchases and do not ship products most of us are interested in buying. The most unfortunate thing with Best Buy is they almost never sell enthusiast-level computer components like mobos and GPUs. They cater to mainstream mid- and low-range hardware buyers and their selection of products in the mid- and low-range is also limited.

 

Once in a while Amazon has something on offer (sold and shipped by Amazon, non-marketplace) at the correct price, but they sell out quickly, leaving only the marketplace scalpers with stock available for purchase. Sometimes it is difficult to even find the correctly-priced items on Amazon because they often do not appear in search results and they are eclipsed by the plethora of scummy scalpers.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. Amazon has the worst search engine ever created. They need to overhaul it stat.

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Papusan said:

Thank god I have the HOF with notification in the hardware and dual power connector. Got flash warning in my bench session and turned off the pc. The left power connector wasn't properly connected and when I took of the connector I saw the hook was barely together. I tried to adjust the gap on the hook and it just fell off. Can't say I'm happy with the Bequiet 12+4 pin power cable. I bench many different cards so I take the card in and out. But far from 30 times. This fragile little piece of power connector is pure trash. At least the power pins and the terminals was clean and nice. That's something.

 

Afterwards I plugged in the broken 12VHPWR connector back on the card without the hook and started up the PC again. Run a bench to see if everything worked. Risky... Oh yeah, but I wanted to see if everything worked well before I take out the card and put back one of my other HOF cards. I won't risk this card with continued benching with a broken 12VHPWR connector😀 Now I need to order, not only one but two new. I don't risk re-use the second 12VHPWR cable. And I will send in an complaint to beQuiet support.

 

Damn Nvidia... I wish they started to use their brain and go back to bigger and better power connectors. This isn't good enough. I have not enough time to deal with such trashware.

 

 

 

At least I got finished 3Dmark 11 Performance before I removed the card😎

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5477024_papusan_3dmark11___performance_geforce_rtx_4090_82551_marks

 

Well.....

 

At least you know that plug/unplug rating wasn't a myth...... 😞

 

But it just continues to show what a trash design the 12VHPWR really is in its current form. Hopefully next gen they make some serious course corrections. AMD was smart to stick with the 2-3x 8-pin connectors.

 

6 hours ago, Etern4l said:

4080 S is available in the US again (+10% scalping tax). 

 

Nice to see 4090 prices getting more in line as well. Further correction to come on the back of 4080S availability, and particularly if the AI hype bubble starts bursting in anger.

 

Nothing will truly be in line till we get to consistent stock of $999 cards and $1599 cards. Outside of the FE on the 4090 (which appears from time to time when the dance to the GPU overlords is performed JUST RIGHT), that might be a thing of the past even the lower tier cards as even on Best Buy prices are up on cards that actually come in stock. As for the 4080 Super, I expect the $999 cards to eventually align properly as this initial rush abates.

 

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I am sorry, but it's just nuts talking about $1700 graphics cards being a good deal. Maybe it's just me, but I can't seem to muster the ca hones to pull a trigger on a card for that amount of mullah. I know full well the addiction, though. 😄

 

I'm sure someone out there thought you dropping ~$1300 on a blocked 7900XTX was nutso too thinking a 7800xt should have been enough. 🤣

 

46 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

When it comes to a flagship/halo product, they are not a "good deal" and they are absolutely overpriced and a horrible value. It's like picking your poison. You choose between lowering and bar and settling for something inferior, or bending over and taking a shot to the wallet. This applies to all flagship components. Mobos, processors, PSUs... the most desirable models offer the poorest value. The pricing doesn't scale well with features and performance.

 

An unfortunate truth but what remains consistent is choice. You're not forced to buy top tier unless you want to and hopefully you're not pushing yourself into debt over what is a luxury item. We all have our luxury thing(s) we choose to indulge.

 

Some enjoy travel.

Some are foodies.

Some like fine wines and spirits

Some like fancy cars.

Some like fancy houses.

Some spend crazy money on Golf or sports.

Some like fancy clothes and shoes (apparently some spend 10's or evern 100's of thousands on sneakers).

And on and on....

 

....then there are those of us who like computer hardware. 🤪

4 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

Now that is a weird looking back lid! Other than that it is pretty cool that this can still be bought (like) new.

 

Just imagine this chassis being available with an 18" 16:10 screen, a 14900K and a 4090 MXM GPU with some special @Prema sauce!

 

 

 

I wish....*sigh* I'd even take it with an AMD AM5 socket.

 

 

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes. The Apex brothers. Battlemage will be an A770 upgrade for their baby sister.

 

Isn't it interesting that you couldn't buy a 4090 if your life depended on it until after 4080S showed up with inadequate stock and instantly sold out everywhere. Now there are several models available at NewEgg, B&H Photo and Amazon with lowered prices. It should be interesting to see how this shenanigan plays into Skynet's plan for the human race.

 

Ah, ok, well then double congrats. 🙂

 

Before with the 4090 being $1600 and the 4080 being $1200, if you were going to spend $1200, you might as well spend $1600 for the better card at that point with the 4080 being such a bad deal compared to the 3080 and xx80 pricing. Now? With the 4090 basically starting at $1800 and the 4080 Super at $1000, the 4080 Super suddenly makes "sense" (as much as a xx80 class card jumping from $700 to $1200 then back down to $1000 makes sense) and will get you very nice performance at the $1000 price point, is the better buy over the 7900xtx and much cheaper than a 4090.

 

Realistically, calculating inflation and a modest profit bump along with increased costs, the 4080 should have been $899.99 at most along with the 4080 Super. $1200 was ridiculous. $1000 is simply much less ridiculous but still ridiculous.

 

 

 

If someone is looking for a top loaded X170KM-G, brand new Origin models with 11900k and 3080 in qty here:

 

Looks like they have about 19 of them and taking offers.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Well, this deal was too good to pass up. Will have it tomorrow. Price is right and worth the extra IMHO compared to 4080S. This is the same PCB as the Aorus Master GPU, just a different cooler, not the absurdly gigantic Master-size... but Byksi is going to solve that for me. The $200 price drop covers the cost of the $204 Bykski block.

 

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-4090-gv-n4090gaming-oc-24gd/p/N82E16814932550?

 

 

Congrats! but, er, don't you already have a Suprim X 4090 blocked?

 

 

13 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I still haven't delidded it, but I moved the SP117 13900KS to the Apex Encore. I relidded the SP108 13900KS and installed it in my little Munchkin PC.

 

 

Moving the delidded SP108 CPU to the baby beast made a huge improvement in thermals. Not too shabby for such a little guy with only a 360 AIO. I think I have enough headroom now to bump the multis by 1x for P and E cores. But, the SP117 defintely needs to go bare die to stretch its legs properly. Even with lower voltage it is running hotter than the bare die CPU did with higher voltage, which is certainly to be expected.

 

 

Nice! Glad to see the SP117 finally made it there safe and sound.

 

18 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

what i also dont get: why do ppl in china pay scalper prices for the 4090 when they can get the 4090D at 1.9k USD with only 10% less performance but same vRAM? like....wheres the logic in that?

 

When you absolutely want the best, price:performance ramifications quickly fades into the distance.

4080 Super Stock in US is definitely near sold out as of 2/5/2924 6:33PM EST:

 

0 in stock on Newegg.

 

 

Only PNY 4080 Super in stock at Amazon at MSRP (but with Amazon's wonky search engine a few may not be picked up):

 

 

 

Only Gigabyte in stock at Best Buy:

 

 

In a month this will all be a moot point as everything normalizes as always after that initial buyers rush, but as of now in the US, stock is sparse.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I chose the Suprim specifically because it has more power phases for core and memory, and better quality components for the VRMs than the other 4090s (excluding Galax HOF). It is built better than the Strix or the FE, which are second and third, respectively.

 

None of that is going to keep a GPU from failing due to improper installation and allowing the GPU to twist or hang in the slot without proper support. They all have a PCB that fits into the PCIe slot, so they can't make it thicker than the slot allows. The heavier the GPU is, the more likely it is to end up with torn pads on memory ICs and under the GPU core. Supporting the weight of it to prevent twisting and flexing of the PCB is essential. Failure is likely and predictable if these measures are not taken.

 

Ditto, the stages and the design for myself (I know you couldn't wait to rip that air cooler off as fast as possible and block it 🙂 ).

 

With the various vBIOS's floating around but overall limitations, the only thing I like about the HOF more are the dual 12vhpwr connectors and that's about it but I wish more cards came with them. Unfortunately having seen many results from the HOF posted over the last year, it seems even those aren't really "binned" and you can still get a dud that won't do 3100+ OC'd or even 2800+ out of box.

 

I started using sag brackets starting with the Aorus Master 3070 as it was the first real "chonker" of a card I encountered. I've used them for most since. I tend to run my GPU power cables from the top of the card vs the bottom as that also gives them a little more support or at worst doesn't add to the pulling down of the card.

 

The fact that entire PCB was twisted in that repair video speaks volumes.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Yup, those premium stages may help if you x-flash Galax 660W vbios. But for gaming... They don't help much. With no XOC/Galax vbios you can just buy whatever float your boat. 

 

Same with new modern motherboards. They are overbuilt to max out profits. Solder on $50 more expensive components then charge the tripple of the add3d extra cost. 

 

I do/did like having them flashing and testing beefier vBIOS's though that's true. For MBs, even the lower end MSI PRO line can handle a lot of overclocking for 13th and 14th gen and before. I ran their PRO models for 10th and 11th and the chips gave out way before the VRMs.

 

That video does beg the question why he didn't send it in under warranty? And more importantly, why he didn't use an anti-sag bracket of some sort?

 

19 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

See/listening from... 8:23 - Or from 8:45 😑

 

Msi RTX 4090 Suprim X. Premium Graphics cards are nothing special. 

 

 

Ohhhh, look at all those extra premium stages! MSI over-engineering at its best. 🙂

 

"As you can imagine PREMIUM and CHEAP get damaged in the same way" -NWR

 

Seriously though, with the way 4090s went, I can see the logic buying a $1600 MSRP model and calling it a day and avoiding over priced HOF, MSI and Asus cards unless you specifically are targeting a particular model for personal reasons.

 

 

16 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

That's people with money. But much of the games with such sucky items is pushed towards the young ones. And be you sure... Many will be tricked into paying for something they don't understand the range of. They don't even need to be stupid... They are often dragged in by others/friends and this will only worsen. You being hooked into something you can't come out from. I hate such business practice. Not all have parents that can see how it works. And can enlightening them.

 

I agree with this 100%😞

 

That's one of the reasons I ended my post before with, "I do think for children, some protective measure might need to be put into place more than what are currently active the same as are in place for all the other vices listed above. In regards to children, there is also a large degree of parental accountability too. "

 

But what happens if the parents do not understand the technological jump that comes so intuitively to the current generation of kids?

 

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Raiderman said:

@electrosoftNot sure if you mentioned it, or knew about the new bios. Thought I would go ahead and mention it. Dated 1/26

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-X670E-CARBON-WIFI/support

 

Nope, I didn't see it I'll have to snag it and take a looksy, thanks bro! (Now that 'ole Bessy Lou is up and running like a well oiled machine)

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Etern4l said:

To see where things are headed one needs to look at the most profitable gaming sector: mobile. The top grossing games there rake in hundreds of millions per year in microtransactions. The mobile nature of the platform means the game is always on, players are forced to engagement and addiction through a number of psychological tricks widely used by the tech industry (TikTok etc), as detailed here:

 

https://www.darkpattern.games/
 

Many of those games should be just banned outright on unregulated gambling grounds.

All of them are Pay-To-Win, with the freemium model just there to suck people in. After a while a victim is put in a situation where they have to pay money to be competitive. People end up dropping sometimes tens of thousands on a mobile game, in addition to wasting years of their life grinding. Some of the games are designed such that there are serious penalties for not playing to schedule. People get kicked out of guilds after one day of inactivity.

 

This is the direction rotten EA and Activision/Blizzard will no doubt keep pushing on the PC/console front. If people are prepared to pay sometimes serious money for virtual cosmetics and status (some were spending thousands on CSGO skins at the time I opted out from that brain cancer), how much might they pay for actual competitive advantages? I mean to some extent there has been element of that on the PC side, where people have been buying faster HW and better monitors to boost FPS into 200-300+ range, which definitely helps in many MP games, but that’s not remotely on the level of the boost some of the P2W features provide.

 

Same as in the other areas, we are effectively voting with our wallets. Spending any money on microtransactions, and frankly just engaging with products which offer them, is just going to reinforce the drive in that direction.

 

The problem is that people’s free will is actually quite limited. We are driven by habits, which those endless multiplayer games seek to build up and exploit.

 

Or leave free will and choice in place as there are plenty who can just choose not to use P2W, purchase cosmetics or walk away when they want / limit gaming time which is exactly what I do. I talk a lot about WoW and Fallout 76, but I only play 2-3 hours and not everyday. I routinely skip multiple days or in some cases weeks. You don't ban or enact even more laws to fix the "problem" of humans selecting bad vices that are detrimental to their well being. If that was the case, we'd also ban chewing tobacco, caffeine, alcohol, cigarettes, sugar, gambling and more....

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with cosmetic items. *I* think they're stupid and a waste of money, but who am I to tell someone else how they want their onscreen avatars to look? Then again, I think blowing wads of cash on fancy cars, overkill sized houses, jewelry, designer shoes, sneakers and clothes is a colossal waste of money but yet again....personal preference. I'm a hardware junkie but that's my personal preference and I've had friends or family (same ones spending gobsmackingly large amounts of money on virtual items and wasteful designer items) wonder why I do.

 

I do draw the line at P2W, but it is what it and has been around in some way, shape or form in gaming since the 90's (Diablo II, EQ, etc...). I even remember people spending real money to get items from other players in AOL's Neverwinter Nights multiplayer in the early 90's.

 

I do think for children, some protective measure might need to be put into place more than what are currently active the same as are in place for all the other vices listed above. In regards to children, there is also a large degree of parental accountability too.

 

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

@tps3443

+23% as measured how?

 

In your video you said you observed a jump from 50+ to 70+ in Witcher 3 st 4K. Did you measure this in any reproducible way? TPU provide very different figures: 145 for 3090 Ti (which is what your 3090 KP was and then some) vs 165 for 4080S. +14%

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-4080-super-expert/30.html

 

(sorry for the 2-post)
 

 

 

That is a good question what metrics were used to derive +23%.

 

50+ to 70+ is a little vague I'll admit (50+ could be anything greater than 50, same as 70+) maybe with a *touch* of excitement of a new card but I don't think you can fairly classify a 3090 as a 3090ti with an OC. I also think TPUs  numbers are a little suspect vs their relative performance chart with the 3090 vs the 3090ti. Hub has the performance of the 3090 vs the 3090ti at ~3% at 1080p up to a max of ~10% at 4k. When I compared my KPE 3090 vs my KPE 3090ti stock for stock, it was about 8% on average across games and synthetics (one of the reasons I sold it in the face of 4090 early testing which just decimated it).

 

Back to @tps3443 and his MSI 4080 Super....

 

He overclocked his 4080 Super just like he overclocked his 3090. I'm sure he got more out of his 3090 though being a KPE and on chilled water and Ampere being a bit more overclockable than ADA along with his MSI not having a great cooler (one of the lesser ones actually overall).

 

This is also a case of never compare OC A vs non-OC A or especially OC A vs non-OC B and declare them the same (I've had this same argument with @tps3443 before). Use stock and go from there of what the card actually is which is a 3090. The 3090ti also has ~2.4% (!) more shaders, higher base/boost clock (irrelevant to a degree with boosting technologies) and slightly higher clocked memory.

 

In the same vein, while looking at TPU charts for stock to stock comparisons, the 4080 Super has a healthy uplift over the 3090. Quite honestly, more than I expected before clicking. I'm pleasantly surprised.

 

On average (across all their games tested as YMMV based on individual games tested):

 

4080 Super vs 3090

---------------------

1080p ~+28%

1440p ~+31%

4k       ~+29.4%

---------------------

 

4080 Super vs 3090ti

---------------------

1080p ~+18.5%

1440p ~+18.9%

4k        ~+15%

Then you have this from their 3090ti architecture page:

 

 

 

----------------------------

 

One last note, looking at their results vs the myriad of 4k results on the OCN forums, here and personal testing, I can almost guarantee their hardware hasn't been dialed in and that 4090 is CPU bound in a lot of those results especially at 4k which routinely happens to 4090 owners (present company included) even with dialed in and tuned hardware.

 

Last January, watching my 3080 and 7900xtx peg to 100% in WoW (did you know I play WoW? I don't know if I mentioned it before....) at 4k then watching the 4090 sit at well below 100% utilization on average even at 4k ultra (while still trouncing both) along with Fallout 76 sitting even lower on the 4090 at 4k ultra let me know it was time to upgrade my CPU stat. 🙂

 

As I mentioned in my other WoW benchmark post, the X3D and 13900KS helped to feed the 4090 even more with boosted results that separated it from the 3080 and 7900XTX even more, but I was still seeing more GPU under utilization more often than not overall at 4k.

 

Probably a few years from now with CPU and memory advances, we'll revisit this topic and you will see the 4090's lead over the 4080 Super and 7900XTX will continue to grow at 4k as it will finally be properly GPU bound in the majority of tests close to across the board just as the X3D and 13900KS/14900K started to make a more sustained dent in the 4090's utilization at 4k.

 

If I was a 1440p gamer, I wouldn't even consider the 4090. I'd pick up a 4080 Super or a 7900XTX when the prices adjust. It usually takes 4k to really separate the 4090 from the pack where it is still sometimes CPU bound.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

Didn't @johnksss buy a Mercedes-Benz from him? What a shame he passed away. He was really great in "The Mandalorian" I was looking forward to Season 3 Mando. 😭He was really one of my favorite characters in the show..

 

For those of us a bit more seasoned, Carl Weathers was a childhood and teenage icon from Rocky to Action Jackson and Predator and more. Seeing him in The Mandalorian was just the icing on the cake.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

What system are we talking about? What it this ITX board?

 

The board I sold to you. I had a 980 Pro 1TB in there I was using and after I broke everything down for selling to the three buyers, I took the spare drive and upgraded my daughter's system from a 500GB no name M.2 to the 1tb 980 Pro since she only had ~20GB left of space from her Steam games and WoW.

 

@tps3443 was asking for my settings when I tuned 8000 awhile ago and after looking through some of my USB drives, I realized I left them on the desktop of the drive which is now formatted with a cloned copy of my daughter's original 500GB nestled snug in her desktop. 🙂

 

 

33 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

 

Yeah the X370 isn't exactly great and also has to sound like a jet engine under load.

 

I am working on an X170SM build. Also open source bios + embedded controller firmware so it can be tuned and have full fan control. It will also have after market fans which are larger and have more blades so they can push higher CFM at lower speeds. Hopefully with a decent bin 10900k and 3080 mobile it can be tuned to operate around 45dB with reasonable performance. I never really enjoyed having e-cores either as it adds another step of micromanaging process. Often on my newer systems I would run with them disabled and only P-cores active.

 

The X170SM was the last one to truly get everything right especially with Prema having put in a lot of work on the BIOS and it is built like a tank. If they could add 11th gen support, that would be something fun to play around with it too. I had both and outside of the dual PSU and very hefty size, I loved them both.  I'll be curious to see your progression with it in the X170SM-G thread!

 

 

21 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Hey. Can you share what your DDR5 8000 tuned timings look like? 

 

I was looking through my files to post them up for you when I realized I left these on my desktop drive (980 Pro 1TB) I had in the MSI in notepad.....which I then installed in my daughter's system to replace her 500GB which only had 20GB free so they're gone.....

 

21 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

LOL weeks in mental prep and u slept in HAHAHA. sorry had to chuckle when i saw this 😄 

 

 

soooo... cuz u cant wait another day ure willing to spend those extra 150 bucks? welp thats on you i guess 😛 same goes with not getting a 4090. if u have 1200 bucks disposable income for a gpu, u can just wait and save for another what? 1-2 months? and then get a 4090, easy. so its more about patience than capabilities here id wager. 

not hating! i just find it curious that someone who buys CPUs like popcorn left and right suddenly complains about financial constraints... if youre just impatient, stand by it bud, nothing wrong with that 🙂 

 

 

I did laugh when he overslept by ~15min and missed the window. I remember back during EVGA drops I set my alarm to be up and ready to get in the queue ASAP!

 

The extra $150 still boggles the mind but I did drop an extra $120 on my Suprim Liquid X 4090 over retail ($1720 vs $1600) but I wanted this model specifically. I would have just ponied up the extra coin for a 4090 if I couldn't get the $1k model seeing as $1150 is nipping at the original MSRP of the 4080 normal. On the other hand, I do like the look of that MSI 4090 he picked up.

 

 

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

This 4080 Super completely stock, auto silent fan profile, 100% power limit, and it is still 15% faster than my full tilt RTX3090 KP.

 

I managed to gain another 8% more performance with an improved fan curve, increased power limit, +1375 mem, and +185 core. 
 

So +23% faster in rasterization over my water chilled 3090KP is pretty darn good! 😃

 

 

Yup, upgrade in every aspect except that VRAM.

 

Now imagine if you had caved and picked up a 4070ti Super.....

 

4 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Gee, thanks bro, you know I love you but really need to steer clear of that good stuff. Wouldn’t want to end up in trouble like CD Joe there. Granted, it’s a fairly loose analogy, but has its moments. “Life service” works lol. Almost 20 years… Blizzard def knows how to cook.

 

 

 

The aluminum foil crack pipe....lol..... 🤣❤️

 

1 hour ago, saturnotaku said:

 

Same point about DLC can be made about hardware. People (myself very much included) rewarding companies' bad behavior only incentivizes more of it. 

 

At this point, I really hope Intel can take that next big step forward with Battlemage and price it as aggressively as they did with the A770.

 

As long as cosmetic upgrades do not give any gaming advantage, I'm fine with them charging all they want for them. I have never nor will never buy anything cosmetic in a game ever.

 

Blame Fortnite for this new trend where people will drop insane amounts of real world money on skins and other external cosmetic items. Fallout 76 makes the bulk of its money off of cosmetic items and even WoW is overrun with cosmetic items that can be purchased for real money or in game for gold (which you can conveniently buy from Blizzard now laundered through players selling their extra gold to blizzard for blizzard tokens which can be redeemed for either a month of game time ($15) or a $15 credit in the Blizzshop).

 

While I have never spent real money on cosmetic crap, my daughter, wife, nieces and nephews all have in the various games they play along with numerous friends so it is definitely a thing especially in mobile gaming. I don't get it and I remember looking at my daughter incredulously that she spent $25 REAL dollars on a flying horse mount in WoW like she had grown a foot out of her forehead. My wife wanting to spend $50 on a clothing and pet cosmetic set on WoW just had me staring at her like she had sprouted wings....

 

When I tell you cosmetics, pets, camp/housing items, special decorative abilities and more are huge sellers it is an understatement.

 

Don't get me started on the sheer number of people that P2W in games like Candy Crush and similar to get bonus turns, items and more to have chances of advancing farther in the game.

 

It's insane....

 

With that being said ...

 

One crucial thing here in his video is he has fallen victim to , "correlation is not causation"

 

Correlating the continued rise of cosmetic purchases with the  causation and decline of quality DLC content (and neither has been properly quantified or qualified) is tenuously subjective at best. His core argument is, "Companies no longer care about quality games/DLC but instead would prefer the easier revenue stream of cosmetic items." He effectively has set up his own straw man to knock down.

 

But again, personally, the idea of spending real world money on cosmetic items seems insane to me but to each their own. Knowing one person in particular who spent well over $1000 buying bonuses and power upgrades in Candy Crush, I will only pay for the games and valid Xpac/DLC gaming content. No more; no less.

 

 

 

 

 

46 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

Love to see that there is next to 0 difference between an X3D and 13900KS when both are tuned. 

 

With the rumors of a "budget" offering release along side the flagship Arrow Lake, I'm considering skipping ARL. But only if they increase the cache with Bartlett Lake or make a meaningful P core chance/IPC improvement. If it's a simple refresh again, why? WHY!!!!! LOL. Besides the chip will hold a special place for me as I used to fly over Bartlett Reservoir/Lake all the time when I was teaching students to fly in Phoenix back in the day. Lived out there for 1.5 years when I was building up experience. 

 

Of course this is all dependent on this new gen of chips being real and not some made up rumor. 

 

True, the 7800X3D definitely smacked down the 12900k which also topped out around ~6800 stable / 7200 benching and actually performed better on tuned B-die 4133 DDR4 (but still lost to the 7800X3D), but the 13900ks did 8000 no problem and once tuned was easily on par with both my 7800X3D and 7950X3D. WoW loves tuned memory especially with Intel where we are talking a 10-15% difference in performance from highs to lows and even more if you pick up junk 5600-6000 memory and just leave it at XMP settings. The biggest difference is in the lows.

 

Anybody who picks up a 13th or 14th gen system and doesn't tune their memory is leaving so much performance on the table.

 

With an architectural overall from Intel and a rumored IPC bump of at least 10% for AMD 9000, I think we're in for a nice round of exciting CPUs this year. (fingers crossed).

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Etern4l said:

TBH that'd probably be ideal, especially since you do have fallback to Intel and don't need to play WoW at 4K Ultra RT 120 FPS. I must say that quitting PC gaming (as opposed to PCs in general) a few years back was one of the best decisions ever.

 

Failing that approach, unfortunately, as in the other unspoken area of reference, we often end up having to choose the lesser evil. Sign of the times.

 

Speaking of which (just for you @Etern4l 🤣), I reran my WoW 4k RT on/off benchmark for Dragonflight which flies point to point over the entire Dragonflight continent there and back with the 7950X3D + 4090. This is with the 7950X3D untuned but memory tuned the same as with the 7800X3D:

 

 

7950X3D (memory tuned. CPU untuned)

 

7800X3D (memory and cpu tuned):

 

13900KS (memory 8000 tuned, CPU stock):

 

I still need to tune the 7950X3D along with isolate CCD for X3D only for comparison (I'll probably isolate the other CCD just for comparison sake too).

 

13900KS and X3D chips were finally able to have the 4090 bouncing off of 100% gpu utilization in some spots but still left the 4090 waiting in others. As soon as you introduce player data and the CPU has to work extra hard, GPU utilization drops into the 80's or lower.

 

Hopefully next gen 9000 or 15th gen will tap out the GPU entirely but much more GPU utilization than the 12900k from both camps.