electrosoft

EVGA Z790 Dark Unboxing video. Available now on EVGA for $800. EVGA Z790 Dark hitting 9200 on DDR5:

Not really in the here and now but if you plan on keeping this build for 2-5yrs it will be in the future. If this is a long term build, I'd go with the Carbon. I was looking at MSI boards just yesterday contemplating keeping this XFX 7900XTX and doing a 7800X3D build out along the lines of having an A770 build for Intel (the wife uses it) to go along with my Nvidia build.

Well in their defense it is an aftermarket design not the reference model but now you can get a better model for the same price! 🙂 So yeah...kinda. Throw in a 10% off code on top of it and get it for $810.00 if you are US based too.

Fn+D on power on should technically reset the CMOS/BIOS but sometimes you will need to remove the CMOS and battery. When doing memory tuning I tend to remove both as I know I'm going to be doing a lot of note taking and experience a lot of blank screens requiring a reset. Then all you have to do is unplug the power cable(s) to auto reset the unit. Did you loosen up the timings too? It can definitely be the kit just can't go any higher than 2667 but make sure to relax your timings and set your Vmem to ~1.35 at least.

Such a monstrous beauty. If you're into raw performance and big screens, this will effectively kill off every last true "DTR" Clevo model out there in every aspect (except noise maybe) as the 4090 mobile model represents the first major leap in performance in quite a while since Turing. That i9-13980HX is going to be a wrecking ball for multi.

Serious price cut to the Merc 7900xt to $899.99 from $999.99 and $20 on reference model less than a month into launch on BB. This will eventually trickle upward to the 4070ti and 4080 unless Jensen just doesn't care and will be hard headed with his pricing. It isn't as if the 4070ti isn't a decent gaming card....just overpriced: Followed up with just overall a whole bunch of "meh" if you have a 3080 or greater card.....

That's how I run my Corsair 3800 SODIMMS DDR4 in my X170SM-G at 14-14-14 with tightened terts too.

More affirmation.... If you have a 3090 or 3090ti, the 4080 is a non starter (along with the 7900xtx).... 4090 or nothing....

If that's Prema, you should be able to just go right in and adjust the custom timings and frequencies to your liking. Standard bin scaling till it tops out (expect 3200, hope for more). Set Vmem to ~1.45v just for some headroom while scaling and loosen those timings to 22-22-22 so you can see how far the memory and system board will go frequency wise. @Clamibot approach works too but I just like to front load the Vmem and take it out of the equation and scale that way and once I find out how much it can scale (frequency/timings) I then start to dial in the best Vmem.

Every CPU has variances in regards to how much power they require and how hot they run. Heat output variances is a byproduct of power requirements it pulls at a given frequency. Some chips can handle a better undervolt than others and as a result run cooler. Some chips just run hotter at the same power requirements as other chips. You want to find a good sample that isn't power hungry, can handle a decent undervolt to reduce power consumption even more and runs as cool as possible given the cooling constraints of the X170SM-G. I think somewhere in this thread I have a post testing at least 4-5 10900k's and showing how they can greatly vary in regards to power and heat.

As much as they don't want it to happen, the market is correcting. We saw this with memory (DDR5 is plummeting in price), storage, CPUs (hello AMD) and now we'll see it with GPUs especially 2nd tier cards that are grossly overpriced. The only problem might be Jensen's stubborness. Look at how he managed to keep 3080 and below cards at or near MSRP even now with a glut of cards. He can do the same with 4000 series. Worst case scenario for consumers is you build up inventory and let it trickle out while you sell to other segments of the market. We need the glut of ADA cards to be so severe he has to cut prices or the bean counters step in and come to the conclusion sales are down regardless of cuts so keep it as is. 7900xt / 4080 / 4070ti are just simply priced too high and as we move deeper into the new year it will start to show. I've been saying over and over since October 2022 that ~Feb 2023 is when we will start to get real clarity. Now if only something could correct the motherboard market pricing....

If you're not happy with MSI overall why take a chance? Wait for an Asus Strix 4090 if that's what you want. I do know my bud's Suprim X 4090 air cooled model memory clocks to 1950 no problem. I'll be the first to admit if price is no object, I'd probably grab a ROG too. People get wrapped up (rightly so) on costs, but the first thing I do with all new hardware offerings is rank them on desirability then re-rank them on cost vs desirability. 🙂 I wouldn't get a Zotac simply because I can't have @johnksss smirking and gloating at me. 🙂 Never pay more than MSRP (or close to it) and never, ever buy from a 3rd party scalper who is a parasite and purposely buying up cards to jack up the prices and resell. Routinely "anti-consumer" results in "pro-profits" for resellers and we know it's all about the profits. Newegg is no different than Amazon, Walmart or eBay in this scenario allowing third party sellers to scarf up inventory and relist at jacked up prices for their marketplace cut. They also get a cut from the initial sale too. What card are you looking for to upgrade your current GPU?

System is on its way as I type. Didn't get it out till 1/3/2023. I asked Zoltan to let the techs know to not use K5 Pro but standard thermal pads and clean up all that mess as that stuff was a moist, weird, degrading mess that seemed to start oozing an oil type substance. When I get it back, I'll clean up the VRMs too and just use standard thermal pads there too if they don't clean that up and use thermal pads.

You would probably have better luck upgrading to a golden 10900k as those do pop up from time to time but more importantly the best bins from Intel were assigned to 10900k chips in general. You can ask on various forums for golden samples but for our use in X170SM/KM chassis, low pull and not leaky are priorities. I've tested a few chips including an SP114 that would have rocked on a competent desktop but in the X170SM-G was a lower vcore but hotter running chip than my golden SP101. I've tested ~8 10900k's now and the Silicon Lottery 10900k I have SP101 still reigns supreme even over an LTX limited golden 10900k and the SP114 I tested (all were delidded). But as long as you lock down a known good sample it will most likely be better than a raw out of the box chip unless you just get a crazy lucky pull like @Ashtrix who bought a boxed retail sample and it was an SP113.

NP. I really like this XFX both aesthetics, cooling, noise levels, no coil whine and more. It has crazy build quality and runs as intended even at stock hitting 2600+ on the clocks. It just is (as of now) a very poor WoW GPU. Figure out what programs and games you want to prioritize and especially for Linux as @Mr. Fox mentioned and it is a solid choice if it fits your criteria. Whoa, this makes the KP Z690 just like an even better buy! Nice!

Good pick. I was torn between it and the Enthroo 2. I would have been happy with either case. It will be interesting to see if all the problems clear up with a newer case. lol, he went in hard on AMD. 🙂 I find Jufes crudely enjoyable. I'm looking forward to the X3D results. I know for WoW the 5800X3D is a PnP monster. Only a finely tuned 12900k or 13700/13900k could best it. Apple is definitely hitting a wall with the Mx architecture. M2 felt very much like M1KS (M1SE?).

Feels more like AMD is quietly willing to price up versus really compete for market share. What little they own they want to extract maximum value. Nvidia is content to keep going as they're going since they control every aspect of the narrative at this point. They have the upper hand and they know it. Their product is superior and they will continue to charge what they want till someone challenges them enough or people have had enough and set hard limits and even then they have so many other interests and profit streams that are much more lucrative than their consumer GPU market they may just shrug their shoulders and keep on keeping on. Odd turn of events for AMD this time around. With their 5000 series CPUs and 6000 series GPUs they made both Intel and Nvidia really stand up and take notice. 6900xt full on competed with the 3090 and the 5000 series CPUs were flat out better than 10th and 11th so Intel and Nvidia had to respond in kind. Of course that is exactly what they did and ADL quickly knocked AMD back to pricing reality and Nvidia just ADA crushed them but I still do feel AMD can compete in the lower tiers at least where the true volume sales reside if they want to adjust pricing like they did with their CPUs. It isn't like the 7900xt/xtx are bad GPUs at all. I like this XFX a lot if it was priced appropriately. They just need a price adjustment if their goal is to truly compete and win market share.

I'm not sure what tests you're looking at in regards to rasterization of the 7900xtx vs the 4080 but it will come down to the games specifically in many cases but here was HUBs 50+ game 1440p and 4k shootout: 7900 XTX is 1% slower in 1440p and 1% faster in 4k overall. What I like most about this comprehensive shoot out is the inclusion of raster and RT along with such a wide range of games. You can find the game(s) you play and get an idea if they happen to be on this chart. For example, if you play CoD MW II, a 7900xtx is a very compelling choice. On the other hand if you're all about Metro Exodus.... Not sure why they included CP2077 but not RT enabled. Their few RT inclusions were hand picked which I did not like. They would have done a better presentation to present a pure raster chart and a pure RT chart for clarity. But even looking at their range of games tested and the massive potential percent difference (from +42% for the 7900xtx to -39% for the 4080) It will come down to the applications/games used but lets take RT out of the equation for WoW. 7900xtx is only ~26% faster than a 3080 10GB with RT disabled. To me, that isn't worth the upgrade as it doesn't get me where I want to go even in rasterization vs a 3080 10GB. RT is important to me especially in the newer Dragon Isles content as it is much more front and center. 4080 would have been >100fps vs ~76fps on the 7900xtx but more importantly those .01 and 1 lows would not have been nearly as bad. Having seen and played on a 4090 in WoW, I'd estimate the 4080 would be hitting around 110-120fps on average with RT enabled. I even did a clean install of W11 on another drive to give the 7900XTX its own complete, fresh, clean environment and performance was basically the same to the W10 DDU install (Score 1 for DDU). My base objective is 100fps avg everywhere (higher is better) on my 144hz display and no crazy 1% or .01% lows where I would also like to see at least >100fps so even if it dips down it won't really be noticeable to me. 3080 10GB = ~97fps vs 7900XTX = ~122fps average with RT off. Turn RT on and both cards are right around ~76fps with dips even lower. Even if I was running with RT off, it wouldn't be worth the price paid (and that was with a 10% off code so $1079.99 + tax, free shipping). While actually playing with the 7900xtx today it was the same "ugh" moments as the 3080 when you hit those problematic dips with RT on just not quite as bad as the .01 and 1 lows are a smidge better. 4090 will be here next week and having already seen a Suprim X 4090 air cooled model in action with WoW on my bud's 12900ks system, I know what to expect. After playing on his system for 20-30 minutes and watching the fps locked at 144hz everywhere and no dips below 100fps no matter what I finally admitted defeat and just picked up a 4090 instead of trying to shoehorn in a 7900xtx or contemplate a 4080 to save some coin and compromise. I didn't even bother picking up the 4080 and cancelled it. If I get a chance in the future somehow I wouldn't mind testing a 4080 to just add to my 5120x1440 data.

Summed up perfectly. 3090/3090ti = Get a 4090 or just ride it out till 5000 series 3080/3080ti = Get a 4090 or maybe a 4080 (especially 10gb model) or just ride it out till 5000 series Anything below the 3080 your options start to open up nicely as to what constitutes a meaningful upgrade. 7900xt/xtx? Having worked with it late yesterday and today some more swapping back and forth between two installs and comparing it to even the 3080 in both FO76 and WoW? It is most definitely going back to Best Buy next week. Even if I didn't have a 4090 coming in I would be returning it. I would pick a 4080 over the 7900xtx everyday of the week.If you have something under a 3080 it does start to have value though but the fact it is basically equal to a 3080 in WoW with RT on and is only ~30% faster than the 3080 10GB in FO76 has now officially made it DOA to me. I will say though that if you're an AMD fan and bent on getting an AMD card, the XFX Merc 7900xtx is about as good as it gets for cooling, build quality and performance. The temps are fantastic and like I previously said, fans never even get to 40% under full load and hot spot stays nice and cool(ish). 🙂 I'm glad I had a chance to remotely work and see the PC 7900xtx in action and I don't regret picking up an actual beefier model to run my own tests but I am just so disappointed with AMD this time around. I feel like HUB when they basically said to find the additional $200 and get a 4080 over the 7900xtx.

Agreed. One thing I like about my old Corsair 540 is the extra top space and it is a mid size cube. It is one reason I still kept it after the KPE 3090 wouldn't fit is because it is so easy to work within. When I buy a monstrous full tower, I'd like at least 1-2" more in the back and on top. You've already committed to a monster size form factor. Why not make it deeper and taller clearance? Nvidia MSRP for 3090 was $1499.99 before there was the mining and crypto boom. 3090ti was $1999.99 at launch too. In comparison to the 4090 (and to an extent the 4080) that inventory glut of high end Ampere cards had no choice but to drop in price as it was nearing its EOL with ADL on the horizon but the 4090 pricing is based on 3090 MSRP pricing. For those who paid $2k+ (including myself) for a 3090ti I salute you. 🙂 Launch pricing: 2nd tier ------------------------- 980.........$549.99 1080.......$599.99 2080.......$799.99 3080.......$699.99 (This was so out of character for Nvidia. Maybe fear of AMD and RDNA2?) 4080.......$1199.99 (Jensenmania full overdrive engaged) Halo -------------------------- 980ti.........$649.99 1080ti........$699.99 2080ti.......$999.99 (Jensemania activated) 3090.........$1499.99 (Jensenmania full overdrive mode) 3090ti.......$1999.99 (Still high on the Pandocrypto) 4090.........$1599.99 (Jensenmania in low power mode) 4090ti........$1999.99? I'm sure Nvidia has run pricing model after model after model and now realizes what some are willing to pay. Even in this small, fireside chat group we keep here we've had 3 (now 4) buy 4090s with a few on the fence who will eventually bite. We know it...they know it....we're just waiting for the ball to drop. 🙂 I've lost count how many posts and reviews I've read elsewhere basically saying, "I wanted a 4090 but couldn't find any in stock so I settled on a 4080." I almost did the same thing. Within that group you have a subset who are using a 4080 to tide them over till they can get a 4090. I managed to hold out a little over 2 months and finally succumbed for a few reasons: A> The initial 4090 I wanted (Suprim X Liquid) popped up and I was able to grab it B> Lackluster 7900xtx results a few weeks ago running some tests on the PC 7900xtx (followed up with XFX testing) C> Seeing how close the 4080 and 7900xtx are in tests D> I was able to sell my KPE 3090ti and get back everything I paid into it. Sensible is subjective. Only thing that matters is market conditions and supply/demand. Nvidia will continue to push prices upward and sell as long as they have enough buyers. Even removing the crypto mining distortion field, Nvidia was steadily increasing prices (see above) and raking in profits. All the crypto mining phase did was push prices to 3k+ for 3090s and 2k+ for 3080s. Now we're back to our regular schedule program and the MSRP on the 4090 is in line with the 3090 which was a massive jump over the 2080ti which was also a substantial jump over the 1080ti. Applying CPI numbers is meaningful as it allows you to evaluate price hikes in context (where does inflation end and profiteering begin?). MSRP is meaningful and valid and has been set for the last previous 4 cycles for comparison for all the top end models at least usually dictated by FE pricing. 3090ti is a bad example to use due to its introduction timeline, pricing and changing market conditions. You can't continue to use that as an example and apply it to somehow Nvidia is going to reverse the trend they've implemented over the last three product cycles. Nvidia tried for a massive money grab end cycle with the 4000 series right around the corner banking on the Cryptodemic sustaining a bit longer and fell flat on their face and had tons of Ampere inventory to now move which they wrote down to $1499 then $1399 and eventually $1099 because it price wise made no sense with the upcoming 4000 stack coming to market. You can't continue to charge $2000 for a card that gets beat by a $1200 card and gets destroyed by a $1500 card. Ampere MSRP pricing for the 3090 and 3080 was announced before any of the outlier conditions of the past few years were even here. This time around we had what turned out to be a not so bad (relatively speaking) jump in the 4090 which actually makes sense in a warped kind of way and then you now have Nvidia trying to shift the lower product stack pricing up to reflect the 3 generations constant price hikes of the top dog products. I do agree with you depending on if/when the 4090ti lands Nvidia will initially offer it at a sky high price then adjust accordingly. If it comes 6 months before the 5000 series I can definitely see an adjustment downward across the top end stack to make room. If it comes sooner than later, they will just slot it in at $1999.99+ for awhile and business as usually until AMD either responds (giggle) or 5000 series is close to launch then adjust accordingly based upon sales figures. In an ideal world, I'd like to see summer roll around and AMD and Nvidia having had to slash all their prices due to many factors including GPU fatigue and the looming recession which is gaining speed. It will be curious to see how it plays out.

Like we saw in many reviews, the 7000 series can perform like last gen all the way up to a near 4090 type experience depending on the game. WoW is known for liking Nvidia hardware and it shows. The flight runs were done in Ardenweald which is still one of the most challenging zones in WoW especially for RT effects. Both cards stock settings. WoW @ Ultra 10 settings, render to 98%, Super Fidelity on. With RT off 7900XTX beats the 3080 10gb (like it should...) 122fps vs 97fps = ~26%.....that is not great but the 1% and .01% lows were better too. Both with RT on 7900XTX is about equal (or a touch better) with a Strix 3080 in WoW. That is trash results. I did the whole DDU song and dance so that shouldn't be the problem as Timespy is right where it should be. I'm going to throw in a test 128GB M.2 and give it a clean install run to double check but these results are right around the ballpark of the PC 7900XTX on a 4k display so I'm not expecting miracles. I was hoping the hotspot issues we had were going to be partially responsible with a touch of throttling but alas.... I'll give Fallout 76 some love later as it is loves AMD hardware. I suspect I'll be returning this card next week. I know the 4090 is going to shatter my 3080 in WoW (in a good way).

First run... Impressions: Monster card. Might be the longest I've seen. Solidly built. I love the basic illuminated XFX logo and industrial design. At stock fans only went to 37% running TimeSpy w/ 56c on GPU and 74c on Hot Spot pulling ~429w. XFX heatsink is a beefy beast. Even with the front glass off while running TS I had to get up and search to find any coil whine. It was barely audible. I was wondering how it would sound with all the horror stories of insane coil whine from 7900xt/xtx cards. I'm glad to report it is one of the quietest cards I've tested. Stock clocks top out at 2667mhz. I plan on keeping it in my case till the 4090 arrives sometime next week and running it through its paces. I already collected some WoW FP data runs on my 32:9 display with my Strix 3080 to kick things off. Using fps monitor to grab fp run averages and other data. Sidebar: I really need some new computer furniture and a room redesign lol. My wife keeps telling me to gut it and go full geek lol.

What model(s) are you looking for specifically? From what I saw, they had the Sapphire (both models), Speedster and Nitro in stock for 7900xtx. $1199.99 is the new official price of the Speedster now. They had the MSI (both models), PNY and Zotac in 4090s in stock. Looks like MC and NE have both trickled their 4090 prices up on some models. BB prices are still the same but they never get much of nothing in stock these days for 4090s or I should say as frequently as MC and NE. I camped out their site for weeks while sick with site check streams going and it was just sad. Lots of regional ghost drops, hardly any country wide drops. BB regional drop system is a blessing (if you get some drops in your region) or a curse (your region gets the short end of the stick). They seem to have a sporadic trickle of 7900xtx's. I haven't seen the air cooled Suprim 4090 listed anywhere recently including BB, NE or MC. Not sure why. These are their stock Newegg prices (not 3rd party scalpers):

We are officially in the end game in regards to true DTRs being a thing of the past. Everything is BGA and we feel "lucky" when we can change or upgrade the memory and storage now. Apple set the standard, companies see their crazy profits and follow suit. I'm just accepting of the fact most users (and I do mean most) do not want to crack open their laptops and get under the hood. They just want to open and use it. When it fails they get it repaired. When it gets too slow they just toss/sell/hand it down and get another newer model and keep it moving. They want them light as possible too. Me? I don't mind a large body laptop as long as I can get in there and tweak/tune/optimize and hand pick components as I see fit. the X170 series is so far the last in the line to allow that with the NH55 close behind since it has a subpar cooling system for the CPU and a BGA GPU but it is miles better than everything else out there for user upgradability. We've also officially reached a point that with all the tinkering and self upgrades in the world these new laptops, even locked down and hindered, are going to bury all the older true DTRs in performance both CPU and GPU.

If you can't think of a use for a second 2080, sell it. How did you end up with 2x of them in your TM?