electrosoft

5 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

AMD have some strong 16GB GPU hardware, even the current gen is impressive enough. Unfortunately, their professional software support is no match for Nvdia, or Intel - as same caveat applies to their CPUs. At least they exert a good deal of competitive pressure on Green and Blue teams on the pure gaming end.

Absolutely true. Rasterization is going to be a monster but everything else will most likely lack the fit and finish of Nvidia's products as always down to AI and professional software.

Beat Nvidia flat out in raw performance but as soon as you want RT enabled things will get shaky real fast. I would laud Nvidia's drivers but it took them almost 8 months to fix their own drivers they broke themselves for WoW and we suffered with flickering textures everywhere because of it.

I'm still hoping they force Nvidia to adjust pricing and release the 4090ti ASAP.

Same AMD CPU hitching in WoW means this generation is DOA for me.

AMD is brewing up a monster....I'm tellin' ya here and now....

5700xt to 6950xt   = 2.36x uplift (Timespy)
6950xt to 7900xtx  = 2.0x+ uplift

Card      SP            BC         MBW       Bus
------------------------------------------
5700xt    2560    1905     14 Gbps   256-bit
6950xt    5120    2324     18 Gbps   256-bit          
7900xtx 12188    2700     20 Gbps  384-bit

-------------------------------------------

1 hour ago, ryan said:

dude you need your own TV show..that is some funny remarks/still laughing. geez funny stuff, maybe we could direct nvidia here and see how they respond.

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

HeHe. What is a day without new smoke and fire? New one out. But where is Nvidia? Planning, an escape route without looking stupid? Just start the recall!! The longer they wait, the worse it will be. Just don't let the stupid engineers that said the adapter was good enough to be shipped with 4090, examine the burnt cards/adapters😁

 

40 minutes ago

Another 16pin Adapter Melting (around 8hrs total use)

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

"Dear Reciever,

 

This an official cease and desist letter. The content posted on your toxic forum has been painting our reputable company in unduly unfavorable light. We request that the site is shut down immediately. Just as with the original NBR, this kind of negative online publicity will not be tolerated. Should this request be disregarded, we will consider taking appropriate legal action.

 

Sincerely,

NVIDIA Legal Team".

I have always loved @Papusan's post. They're one of my favorites not just because their informational but funny too. When NBR went down, one of my thoughts was, "How am I going to enjoy Papu's posts now?" 😁

@Etern4l  lol! Well played. 🙂

17 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

haha would love to my dude, unfortunately im about to head to Mexico with the missus for our honeymoon. so no hardware playground for the next two weeks! sucks to be me i guess lulz 😂

Honeymoon trumps hardware every time. 🙂

Have a fantastic vacation and congrats on the nuptials brother!

1 hour ago, jaybee83 said:

yep, can confirm the coil whine on my suprim x, as well. although it doesnt bother me at all, i actually just tested for it after i got the card after i saw so many users on overclock.net whining about that 😄 glad im not as sensitive towards that haha, cant hear it at all while gaming or benching.

and yes, the 4090 is such a monster in so many ways! can go up insanely high with power consumtion if u push it, at the same time it can be soooo frugal in terms of wattage per fps if u trim it down via UV or fps limiter. while playing wolfenstein the new order i brought it down to 90W avg for 60 fps locked lullz

i absolutely love this card! 🙂 

 

Bad coil whine, especially when it changes pitch/frequency depending on on-screen action literally makes me nauseous. I wish I could just push through it but I can't. I could even hear my FE 3090 through headphones. That Suprim was definitely talking! 😝

And exactly, pushing it to see the highs but for me the magic was capping it at 140 and 60 to simulate my two displays and just seeing the power consumption and heat drop massively as that would be exactly how I would use it. Seeing WoW locked in at 60fps  everywhere with rock solid fps 4k for the first time ever was a beautiful thing to see. 🙂

Even the air cooled Suprim is a gorgeous piece of hardware and the fan noise level wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be under full load. If I could find a low/no coil whine one of those, that would definitely be a contender along with the Liquid.

I know the Dragonflight areas in the Xpac have been heavily optimized versus SL so it should run even better. It drops Nov 28th so we'll see how the 3090ti does out there at 5120x1440  144hz and 3840x2160 60hz.

Took my game drive over to my buddy's house earlier today (the one I sold my 12900ks) as he picked up a Suprim 4090 air cooled model  a few days ago from MC. He's still on the 12900ks and has no desire to upgrade to 13th. He went there to get a new M.2 for more storage and saw they had a few in stock and just said, "Ehhhh....why not?" 😉

My monitor tops out at 144hz while his is 4k 240hz (Xeneon).

WoW FPS gain I get ~140-150sh in the good spots in SL uncapped (I usually keep display capped at 140fps in NVCP) but outdoor raid bosses in SL can sink my 3090ti to the low 50s / high 40s. 4090?  Same spots hitting 210+. Those outdoor bosses can still sink a 4090 to 65-80fps but nowhere does it sink below 60fps anywhere everything ultra, RT to max. While the Nvidia readout said 65fps-80fps in a full encounter, it still felt so silky smooth versus how it can get a bit chunky with the 3090ti.

Ardenweald the zone GPU slayer? 3090ti = ~75fps avg, 4090 = 120fps.

What I confirmed was none of those Ryzen dips which are just brutal. I hope they work that out sooner than later but seeing as they are still there from the 5000 series ugh....

Fallout76 went from 80-150 up to 110-240.

Locking the fps to ~58fps in NVCP to simulate my 60hz G-sync 4k 32" BenQ and watching the pull just plummet to 140w-250w just about everywhere was nice to see. Even Ardenweald and outdoor raid bosses it topped out around 300w whereas my KPE 3090ti will hit 425-450w no problem.

Coil whine was pretty monstrous......luck of the draw I suppose. If I had picked that card up it would have been going right back.

Yeah, that 4090 is a beast. It isn't so much the highs for me as the min/lows it really pumps up quite nicely. If I switched back to my G-sync compatible BenQ 4k 32" 60hz display I would basically get that full 60fps locked in everywhere and most times the 4090 would be pulling so low too.

26 minutes ago, johnksss said:

Wait? Why no trash card in the list? Are they being haters?😂

I messaged them personally to tell them to not include it.... 😉

3 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I got a private message from CENS he wants to buy my 13900KF and LN2 it apparently. 

 

 

 

 

 

Heh....

Remember when I said your chip was a gooder and an SP108+ and stood by the assessment? 🙂

I'm glad you got a rockin' CPU bro! You have good, positive energy and an almost giddy love of hardware that is refreshing to see. You've been rewarded with a monster 11900k and now a stand out 13900k.

CENS clearly sees the same characteristics of your CPU and sees some major potential in it.

Congrats! 🙂

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It hasn't even been installed 24 hours yet, but it seems stable so far. I generally do not turn my benching system for that though. I generally tune for highest possible benchmark scores and do not need it to be able to run Prime95 for hours. I still have a lot of learning and tuning to do.

---

This is an accomplishment for the Strix D4 mobo. Rare to see an ADL DDR4 system capable of doing this.

 

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

 

Have you tried maybe 4000~4266 in Gear 1? 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

Not with the 12900KS. Haven't had time to experiment, and since it is my work computer less of a recreational priority for me.

 

CENS has BIOS overclock profiles in the firmware on the Dark mobos. It's worth a lot more than market value based on the silicon grade. I would ask him what he has in mind for the price rather than give him a price based on what you think is fair. When you are selling something rare and in demand, the pricing should reflect that.

Yeah, the DDR4-4400 overclock is totally stable. I let it run for 2.5 hours last night with no error. It requires a fan blowing on it just like DDR5. A fan blowing on it keeps the temps 38-40°C. Without the fan it hits 50°C within a few minutes and starts throwing errors in massive quantity, eventually ending in a BSOD.

Yeah, I definitely want to see what it does in G1. 🙂

Curse of Ryzen dips strikes again.

New 10.0 patch which is the basis and engine for Dragonflight. I had hoped they had managed to address the Ryzen issues with those savage dips but they are still there.

Even with a 4090, same problems in WoW as with 5800x....sudden brutal 1% and min dips...

On my 12900k and 3090ti fps isn't as high (duh), but none of those brutal dips especially in PvP or in heavily populated areas (IE Oribos) and tons of CPU handled player data and physics.

5800X3D managed to smooth it out for the most part. Hopefully 7800X3D (or whatever they end up with) will sort that out again and then some.

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

@electrosoft

 

More MSI FORCE2 results and SP rating.  I feel like the force rating is not very consistent so far.

 

 

True, we need to figure out the parameters used to ascertain the rating vs Asus because if an SP101 is coming back 149 and Sugi's SP114 is a 108 something needs to be established that is consistent considering @johnksss SP99 came back at 136....their testing criteria either needs work or is much different than SP.

27 minutes ago, Reciever said:

I wonder in such scenarios they could upgrade you to the rtx 3080?. From what I recall the 2080 Super was somewhat rare in comparison to the other GPU's in wild.

9 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

if hes in luck they might be out of the 2080S 😉

The only issue there is I would need the KM heatsink to go along with it but if they couldn't source it but could source a 3080 and KM heatsink I would gladly take that replacement. 🙂

I'm traveling in less than two weeks and I wanted to take my X170SM-G along with me to play Fallout 76 so that was why I was setting it up and getting it updated but the 2080 Super went south. I'm glad it went south now versus being on the go.

Worst case scenario is I'll just take my MSI Pulse 12700h/3070 with me but it can't compete with the X170SM-G gaming as the 2080 Super is faster, memory is dialied in and the CPU doesn't throttle at all.

56 minutes ago, johnksss said:

 

 

 

Sorry guys, but phone has been ringing off the hook!

 

 

Nice, at least we can now establish a somewhat baseline between Force and SP since @johnksss is blessed to own both boards. 🙂

Sugi will literally end up going through 50-100 chips when all is said and done (if not more) to fish out the top bins. Awesome to sit back and witness but way too pricey to mimic. 😞

26 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Still not validated prediction/statistic.... But here's a few numbers. SP 95-99 is like what would’ve been an SP 80-84 with the 12900K. Basically a mediocre sample. SP 100-102 is decent/respectable. SP 105-110 is an A. SP of over 110 means potentially a P SP of 120-130 and this would be golden as of current sampling

 

But I have seen good benches (great results) from so called "mediocre" chips, so.

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-asus-strix-maximus-z690-owners-thread.1794802/post-29052675

As we know (time and time again) SP is a predictive indicator but isn't the be all of all in ratings as you push farther on the silicon.

We saw the median shift with the 12900ks and SP rankings if you recall. 13900k's just continue to extend upward as the overall silicon gets better and better.

That is why we would see some SP63 10900k's smash the upper tier and SP90+ run nice and cool well ahead of SP63's and suddenly run off the tracks at 5.4+

I have always said (and always will), even a bad SP throw it in a rig and test it and push it up bin by bin and you might be surprised. I always love seeing where a good SP chip is humming along and hits a wall and falls off the rails and the pull suddenly goes through the roof by a +1 bin uptick.

Submitted a few videos to Ztecpc showing the 2080 Super failing in spectacular fashion. They are now looking to source a 2080 Super replacement from Clevo. Once sourced, I'll send it in for replacement. No field / self service available. I would have preferred to do it myself, but it is what it is.

I'll end up resetting everything and putting the old memory back in and 256GB singular drive with a clean install for ease on their end.

14 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

The modifications to the heatsink by zTecpc include according to them: a 3 part thermal mod to improve temperatures. They never detailed what those things were, but I have some guesses.

 

I think one of those things is K5 Pro on the GPU's VRAM instead of thermal pads. I'm guessing the second modification is using shorter screws for the heatsink to increase mounting pressure. The third modification must be the addition of washers on top of the screw holes to further increase mounting pressure.

 

The heatsink is also of high quality. There have been complaints of warped heatsinks on Clevo laptops in the past, but this one is pretty much perfectly flat.

They also cut off the 4th retention bracket/arm for the CPU as it prevented deeper mounting pressure and caused an uneven mount:

29 minutes ago, Papusan said:

The 7950 branding is for the mid cycle upgrade on same arch (same as 4090 ti branding). And a chance for AMD to charge more. I hope AMD can have their best cards price point on 3080 level from Nvidia. Aka top out at 1200$ at max. Or 400$ below a4090. If the performance was around the same I think this would kick nvidia hard in the nuts. A 4090 Ti wouldn't help Nvidia from loosing sales of 4090 or 4080. Only a price reduction can save them. I think 4080 live dangerous with its price point. Nvidia should never ever put the high price tag for this card.

Hey, maybe we'll get a better binned RDNA3 mid cycle called the 7900XTXTX where they can charge more for it again yet it will basically be the same.

6 minutes ago, cylix said:

If they are smart i think a price of 1500 1600 for the RDNA 3 Flagship will bring loads of people in AMDs house, they have now the chance, but it think they will be greedy like with am5 ..😑

I agree. If the 7900XTX is the monster it is rumored to be on paper, I am expecting AMD to dethrone Nvidia in pure performance and Nvidia will have to double down on the benefits of RT and DLSS in regards to performance metrics.

2 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Everything remained the same with my SP rating after the firmware update. I was even able to import my saved BIOS profile with all of the old settings without error, so that was a real time-saver.

Nice, now all we need is the silicon lottery to come through....

@tps3443 your MSI board has Force rating, so with Sugi giving some context with his chip versus another ho hum chip, you can at least get some rating context of your 13900k. Lower the rating the better.... (Sugi = 108, Ho hum = 144).

Looks like the upcoming AMD flagship is going to be a the 7900XTX not 7950XT....

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-rumored-to-launch-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-graphics-card

Look at those uplifts to SPs, bus and bandwidth.....

Considering the 6900xt was equal or better than the 3090 at 1080p and 1440p and was hanging in there at 4k I'm expecting a monster from AMD for raster at least...

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

That is what I am praying happens. Seems like the right thing to happen.

Yes, I have. I have spent hours trying different things, including that. It is definitely something with the mobo. Even my custom 4500 XMP profile that ran as smooth as silk on the Z490 Prime, Z490 Strix, Z590 Dark, Z490 Dark is unbootable. It never trains and dumps me back on the boot screen with the F1 option to try something else.

Hopefully good stuff on the 13th gen....

And just a dud (ish) MB for memory then. Harkens back to the early days of Z690 fishing through motherboards and lamenting the lack of a 2 slot DDR4 motherboard.

Post by Sugi regarding SP bug reports:

I'm still on 1601 as I haven't found a reason to update but if/when a 13th gen chip miraculously wills itself into existence for my D4, I'll make sure to upgrade. 😉

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

😄 He's getting a factory sealed 13900K haha. It was staring at me on the desk last night, mocking me saying how it's an SP120. 🤪 Shipped it off to him this morning, he should have it Thursday according to the nice lady at the front desk. 

lol, it might end up like @Mr. Fox when he shipped that brand new 11900k to @tps3443 and he ended up with an absolute god tier 11900k....

19 minutes ago, Ashtrix said:

About the fan splitters I found this one too.

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077YHLDSP

 

I was about to buy something like this  but since the mobo headers can take 2x Noctua NF-A12's I left the idea of having such, maybe If I need to use Noctua PPC Industrial like @Papusan It would be handy. 

 

Personally I do not like to have Corsair or any other controllers which rely on the software esp RGB junk mandates such controllers. Just mobo should be handling this at low level without any OS or Software dependency, so options are good to have.

 

 

 

 

Nvidia is a trash company.

Experimenting always with every damn generation be it SW / HW / Uber trash pricing rip off BS.

 

Initial leaks on Radeon RDNA3 PCB showed the usual tried and tested rock solid 8-Pin power connectors for GPU and not this one. Gotta see what AMD will unleash, I bet their GPUs are much more efficient than Nvidia's 600W GPUs with melting power connectors.

 

Legit this stuff is brand new shiny and appealing to many but the new ATX 3.0 PSU standard (Still not popular and only handful exist that too with compromises) and the new GPU 12VHPWR hamfisted power connector standard atop of the new PCIe5.0 SSDs, DDR5. Too much new stuff. I'd rather stick to old (which is what I did at-least 1/2 way) and move to new when it comes a standard and not be a guinea pig to these companies.

 

With Intel LGA1700 need to buy an aftermarket CPU retention bracket to stop bending the damn mobo and CPU, with Nvidia buy 90 Degree aftermarket power connectors to stop a fire hazard that could burn your home / PC and pray it doesn't break.

 

PCIe5.0 SSDs are still damn 1-2TB and 4TB max (exorbitant pricing incoming) and they will offer extreme prices too for basically nothing. PCIe4.0 SSD drives were super expensive for a whole year at rip off pricing.

 

 

I keep 2 or 3 fan splitters on hand at all times. I have a large bin labeled, "PC buildout gunk" and it is stuffed with fans, hubs, splitters, GPU stand offs, all types of esoteric cabling and more....

As for AMD, just looking at the gains from RDNA to RDNA2 along with the sheer increase in CUs alone from RDNA2 to RDNA3, I'm expecting great things.

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

He would not do that to me, or anyone else, without full disclosure and letting them decided if that is OK.

Looking forward to getting it. Crossing my fingers. I already flashed the 13th Gen update to the Strix D4 to check the SP rating before moving it to the Z690 Dark.

 

Now I am wishing I had not purchased a DDR4 mobo, but can't cry over spilled milk. It is what it is. It's actually a good mobo, just limited on RAM clocking. It can't overclock DDR4 as well as the Z490 mobos I used these same modules in. They were stable at 4500 on Z490 Strix and Dark. Now they are only bootable at 4200, stable at 4000 on the D4 for some weird reason.

That's the luck of the motherboard with Z690 DDR4. As a test, have you tried going into G2 to eliminate the CPU as the potential bottleneck and see how far you can push your DDR4? Does it still cap at 4000? I know my board can push 4200+ and I run it rock solid at 4133 daily but I still didn't go in there yet and test it in G2 just to see where the memory/motherboard gives up the ghost.

30 minutes ago, johnksss said:

I would watch that trying to run a gazillon fans on 1 header.... You might be sorry for it later.....

17 minutes ago, Reciever said:

Even I was nervous for attaching 3 to one header on my x570 itx board 

I max at 2 per header. I usually put a powered hub (or two) in my cases just because.... 🙂

Exception being the 6 fans being controlled by my KPE 3090ti.

19 minutes ago, Talon said:

My local MC go ta shipment this morning, ran over and grabbed my third 13900K LOL. SOLD the SP99 to my brother instead of returning to MC. I refunded the replacement plans on it and my SP106 chip. Got an SP101 chip this time, luckily it's extremely weighted towards the P cores with kinda crap E cores. Perfectly good for me, can run it at stock 5.5ghz all cores with a 280mm AIO and graphite pad and still not thermal throttle at stock in CB23 which was my goal for this rig. Now I'll finally use real Gelid Extreme on it and get to tuning it. The SP99 was fine and would have been fine under real paste for daily loads, but this chip definitely has some much improved P cores. 

 

$569 is a very reasonable price for this insane chip. AMD is out of their minds with the 7000 series. 

Yep, AMD is definitely going to have to come back to reality.

Maybe subpar sales on AMDs part factored into some of the pricing too on a various levels.

$569 is definitely a reasonable price for what you're getting with a 13900k.

What are the P/E cores on the SP101?

30 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

This will help with annoying distractions and screenshot artifacts.

  

Unless something has recently changed, he will need a ROG board. Prime motherboards do not show the SP rating unless they added that with Z590 or Z690. It would be nice if the nitwits at ASUS actually listed this in their product specifications and features.

 

It's definitely nice to know for the sake of conversation or resale value, but it's not a need to know and it doesn't change anything whatsoever. You either got lucky or you got screwed. All you need to know is shown to you in the way your system behaves and it is obvious @tps3443has an excellent CPU sample. As @Clamibotknows, SP-rating can be misleading if you place too much stock in it for the same reason ASIC rating was often misleading on GeFarts GPUs when it was popular for gamer kids to obsess over it.

Since Z590, Prime-A boards do SP ratings. I used a Z590-A prime a bit just for SP ratings on 10th and 11th.

20 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Thanks. Is this with the chiller? And what with vcore?

A chiller would reduce the temps and power consumption (the exampla I posted is done with a custom water setup). Should be a bigger difference between Sp108 and Sp97. But we still don't know about the leakage and the sub Sp scores.

I agree his extreme cooling will definitely factor in and this early on data will continue to come in changing the landscape (as we've seen even with Asus themselves as they re-formulate their SP rating algorithms in subsequent BIOS updates and SP ratings can and will change), but remember SP108 is better than average but not a high golden.

5 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Is it a daily limit?

 

 

 

 

 

UPDATE:

 

 

This is the real screen shot. 
 

Yeah, you have to manage attachments. I routinely hit the limit and just go delete earlier ones along with mixing in some hosting now.

12 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Here's how an SP97 chips looks.

Yep, still stand by my early assessment of @tps3443 chip. He needs a dirt cheap Z690  Prime-A to at least get a real idea.

@tps3443  does the MSI Unify do force ratings or no?

11 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I don’t know if this is any good or not. But here goes. R23 10 minute run so far. Power is like 340 watts max. Definitely toasty on the temps! Lol. Much toastier than I’m use to anyways.

 

5.8 P-Cores @1.315V

4.5 E-Cores

4.7 Ring/Cache

Corsair Vengeance DDR5@ 6400

 

11 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

Yeah, those temps are great. Seeing what they are, I would not delid that CPU. It runs cooler than my 12900K and 12900KS (both delidded) despite running much higher clocks. Maybe Intel figured out how to do the soldering right to eliminate the need to delid.

 

Corsair Vengeance 6000 kits can come with B-die or Hynix M-die. I included that kit with the mobo and he has it overclocked to 6400. The PMIC is locked to 1.435V, so 6400 is the highest I could get that kit to run. If the PMIC were not capped I suspect they would run 6800. Performance at 6400 was basically identical to Hynix at 6400.

Pouring over results on several forums, @tps3443 looks like you got what I would say is at least an SP108+ class chip. If the IMC turns out to be a keeper too, you're one and done bro, good job!

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Nvidia found a new way to help its AIB partners to raise prices/keep them highest possible for 4000 series cards. So Nvidia don't have to rely on miners anymore. Rumors yep, but we know how Nvidia works and what's their goal. High prices/shortage of 4000 graphics cards will undoubtedly also help Nvidia and partners to get rid of the old stuff (3000 series).Big win in all ways (for nvidia), but not for the gamers nvidia was so concerned about. AMD need to push out their next gen cards... Now. 

NVIDIA Allegedly Shifts GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming GPU Production To Hopper H100 AI GPUs

NVIDIA Prioritizes Hopper H100 AI GPU Production Over GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming GPU, Ada Stock Drying Up Everywhere.

 

In a rumor by MyDrivers, it is reported that NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 4090 gaming graphics card has been in high demand but despite that, the company has decided to shift its production capacities to meet the demand for Hopper H100 AI GPUs which are a more lucrative business for the chip-maker at the moment.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Colorful RTX 4090 iGame Neptune has max TGP at 630W, highest from any RTX 4090 GPU videocardz.com

 

The iGame Neptune from Colorful has the highest maximum power setting from all RTX 4090 GPUs. 

Nearly all RTX 4090 cards have higher max TGP (Total Graphics Power) for overclocking. There are models which have sub-500W TGP (ZOTAC), but the vast majority of GPUs goes higher. There are, in fact, models that go all the way up to 600W (NVIDIA Founders Edition, ASUS ROG Strix or Gigabyte Gaming). However, none of the card thus far has reached higher, that’s until Neptune was announced.

 

 

There's no downside for Nvidia to shift capacity. Fill the more lucrative market  with 4000 dies while continuing to shed Ampere cards which are finally and really drying up in the upper 3000 range (3080-3090ti). With the holidays upon us, people will buy what is available. Nvidia is doing what I would expect any corporation to do and that is to maximize profits over consumer desires / requirements.

Hopefully AMD will bring the heat. Based off of sheer architectural improvements / CU counts / clocks / Interface , the 7000 series is shaping up to be a raster monster that will out perform the 4090 at least on that level and even a 4090ti.

If so, Nvidia will be forced to continue to hard press their "other advantages" namely DLSS3 and RT as the 7000 series looks to have made huge inroads in RT performance but only to the level of a 3080-3090 class.

As for the Colorful RTX 4090, still my favorite. I would never pay the coin to import one but it would be the type of design to push me to do an all white build. I will be doing an all white build for my daughter who wants to follow suit with her fiance who I finished his "more common sense" build (IE, what can my wallet support) and is as expected destroying his 4810/970m laptop performance. He wanted an all black build though.