Who wudda thunk it? Tuning memory is important.... (Sarcasm == max;)

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Tested in Blender, Geekbench 5

Tomshardware.com - 6 hours ago

Where are the performance advantages? Maybe Mr. Azor will bring it back?😎 Oh' I forgot... He rule in the Graphics/Gaming department. 

 

But, this is a pure gaming chips. Maybe he have come up with some good advices he learned from Dell? Less is more. And newer has to be better. Always.

 

  

 

 

I wasn't expecting anything outside of gaming gains with the increased cache kinda like what happened with the 5800X3D.

Hopefully we see some meaningful gaming gains with the 7800X3D.

1 hour ago, Tenoroon said:

The haul...

 

Edit:

I noticed these odd spots on the die side of the IHS. I'm assuming they are fine, but do they indicate anything bad or are they just a byproduct of how these IHSs are milled?

I had a couple of those and I never saw spots like that. I can't say whether they are harmless or not.

Is that for your 8700k or a 9900k?

As suspected once in the capital city where player data and RT are in full effect, CPU is bottlenecking my 4090 like a beast at 5120x1440. I sat there watching the CPU bounce off of 90-100% over and over while the GPU sits there at 55-65% tops.

FPS are right around 70-90fps tops too in Valdrakken while the 4090 is waiting on my 12900k at 5.2 all core. (All the shadow and lighting on the Dragon is RT).

I know raids are going to be brutal with all the spell effects and RT being thrown around.

I'll be returning my MSI Z690 Unify-X for a few reasons:

Primary reason: I think I know why this was an open box model. It keeps shutting down randomly under any type of heavy load when the VRMs are pushed >225w. CB23 or even CB15 will just shut down. It is consistent in its randomness. If I cap or keep the pull around 200w it never shuts down. This is with temps well under 80 >225w.

Secondary Reason: After tweaking and optimizing the DDR5 and seeing nice (really nice) gains in WoW vs standard XMP timings  it still can't match the DDR4 sticks in performance. It's close enough that if this was my first board / DDR5 combo I would have kept it but I still have the Strix D4 and B-Die sticks. Aida64 looks great, the numbers are there and locking it to 5.3 all core E-cores disabled to match my DDR4 setup. I'll revisit DDR5 during the next round (or with X3D depending on how it performs) I did have a blast tuning and working with it though and it is the future but 7400 DDR5 tuned can't quite beat out 4100 DDR4 tuned. I'd be curious to see what 7600+ could do with another board also down the road.

Good thing is I can sell these Trident lovelies and just keep the M-die for a potential X3D buildout since they top out at 6600 and X3D sweet spot is 6000 and usually tops out at 6200 if I end up going that route.

I'll be putting my X170SM-G up for sale in the For Sale forums in the next couple of days. I have too many laptops and just picked up another laptop so I need to sell off 2-3 of them for balance.

I'll also be offering it parted out so if enough people want individual pieces I'll go that route.

Still under warranty till 11/26/2023 full accidental coverage.

Just serviced from ZtecPC with brand new motherboard, 2080 Super and heatsink.

Partout would be laptop, GPU and binned CPU (still on the fence with the CPU. Might keep it for my X170KM-G).

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

White tells you that BIOS #1 is selected. If you  move the selection switch to BIOS #2 it will turn a really icky bright red color.  Both of the bright LEDs suck, but the red is a whole lot worse.

 

Yeah I found out playing around with it on a whim in between reboots/shutdowns tuning DDR5. That red is horrendous.

Been dialing in DDR5 timings all afternoon and I am pretty disgusted with the stock XMP timings G.Skill provides for their 7600 kit. Finished primaries. Working on secondaries and bandwidth, latency are all better but especially the cache R/W/C speed improvements are substantial.

I'll be curious to see what flight run benchmarks are in WoW compared to DDR4 after this 48hr lockdown on timings is over.

22 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Just for giggles, I put the 4090 in the second PCIe slot on the Dark mobo and connected everything. Booted from the 3060 Ti in the primary slot and loaded Windows. Nothing in Device Manager. It does not even detect that it is in the slot, which is consistent with the BIOS error D6 (no graphics device found). 

Sounds like something besides the memory in that situation.

Either way, that sounds like an AP (Amazon Problem) not a YP (You Problem).

24 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

I know, Micron VRAM was doa on my Turing laptop, Micron makes the slowest DDR5 etc. As for the links, first hit on Google bro, looks like there are more. 

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/rtx-4090-and-memory-chip-degradation.1804008/

 

The word is that SK Hynix and Samsung memory is better.

Interesting but not conclusive. Has anyone had memory degrade on 3000/4000 series at stock and/or not in a mining situation but from normal D2D use?

35 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Well, my Suprim died today. While working on my other computer I looked over and saw the screen was black, like it had gone to sleep. I always disable that. Jiggled the mouse and tapped a few keys and nothing. Powered off and on and motherboard beeps and shows D6. Pulled it out and tried it on the other computer and same thing. Started a refund with Amazon. No exchange available, so I put the 3060 Ti in my benching rig while I ponder whether or not to bother finding another 4090.

 

I am so glad that I hadn't already sold the spare GPU. I'd be up the creek with no paddle if I had.

That was a decent sample too..... 🥲 You could always work out logistics with @Papusan and really splurge on an HOF!

43 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Micron VRAM. Nuff said. Sorry to hear, must be annoying, but good thing you ordered from Amazon and it happened within the return period. 

Micron is an issue on Turing. Do you have any links to multiple issues with Micron ram on 3000/4000 series?

37 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

That is exactly why I bought it from Amazon. It was a rare opportunity for the price on a "sold and shipped" option. All of the other sources are about $300 more. I never would have purchased it anywhere except Amazon or Best Buy (since I have no Microcenter) because of their return policy.

Why I usually stick with Amazon, Microcenter or Best Buy for most purchases when able. B&H is pretty good too. My best bins for CPUs and GPUs have consistently been with Newegg though....

54 minutes ago, Custom90gt said:

 

It's been a rough time for you and hardware recently.

For real. The 2000+ mile buffer between @Mr. Fox and myself may not be enough to avoid his hardware luck.

In the hardware's defense he does push it as hard as it will go "Kirk to Scotty" style. 🙂

So I finally got a chance to install and start digging my teeth into this Z690 Unify-X and DDR5. Board looked brand new with original plastic and had all the accessories still sealed down to the USB thumb drive. Bios was dated from 2021 so updated to A.90 immediately.

M-die sticks gave up the ghost at ~6600.

Trident sticks would boot at 7600 but errors on my original 12900k

No boot at 7800

Backed off to 7400 and running fine at stock settings

I'm going to need to start tweaking the timings as of now my original DDR4 sticks are performing better in WoW but I knew DDR4 inside and out while DDR5 is fun new territory. Surprised the original launch edition 12900k can get to 7400 and boot at 7600 though.

In my test rig I tried the original EVGA CLC w/ the Socket 1700 kit and temps were much higher than the Arctic LF II 420 by 11-12c even with multiple remounts so I'll be sticking with the AF LC II 420. Might be a die size / plate coverage issue with the EVGA CLC.

I do have a question though. Is this bios reset light on the bottom supposed to be stuck on white 24/7?

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

Ready for some more pictures bro @electrosoft ?🙂

 

The HOF have landed😎 What a beauty. You may not fully like the White style bro @Mr. Fox but I'm impressed from what I have seen in the box and Youtube video's. And it offer a lot less ARGB bling bling on the fans and shroud than many graphics cards (HOF don't have ARGB fans). Look at this Phoenix 4090 from 12:28 timestamp). Who want this fancy color show over the whole graphics card? At least not me. Yep, I have spent avery long time to see what I want. Good overclocker is very nice to have but if the graphics card is awful to look at it will destroy some of the fun paying a lot money. See the whole video to see the different custom cards designs and light show. 

 

 

This card will be a popular in the used market. And I don't think Galax offer equal quality as Dell's Lunar White Aw laptops that went into yellow disaster within 2 months. And Galax don't offer their best cards in Black, so it's what it is. 

 

What I didn't like is the packaging job from the shop (see pict). 2 flimsy sheets of cardboard wrapped together with two straps. Not the way you should handle expensive items. If the outside package have been halfway destroyed I would have returned it within an our and without open it. I talk about the outside White packaging box from Galax, not the fancy box the cards is put into. Enjoy🙂 Sorry all all the pict that fill up your server @Reciever @Hiew 😇

 

 

Yep, 2 flimsy sheets of cardboard wrapped together with two straps

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Papusan said:

Dang, sorry bro ryan. I forgot. Nice you missing them  @electrosoft also love them😎 Maybe I should buy White crocs now? More modern to match nowadays modern tech or the HOF?😆 

 

The crocs I use now is totally worn out. Need new one. Please come with some good advices, bro Electro. Black as the old or modern as below? @Mr. Fox?😀

 

Have some freetime. Making ready for the HOF. I need to move the bottom pump a bit over on right side and put it below the pump on top to fit in the bigger graphics card. The MSI 4090 Suprim Liquid X was so short in lengh that I didn't need move the pump. Now I have to. 

 

Damn nice with a big chassis. Just do some minor changes and all is well @Mr. Fox 🙂

 

 

And todays funny news....

 

AMD got yelled up by their angry customers because they forgot offer drivers for the older cards the last 3 months. Now they are in the spotlight again for their new screw up's.  New drivers out. Not easy to follow up and be sure "that they can fulfill" the claims that they offer better driver value than Nvidia, LOOL

 

The new AMD Adrenalin 23.2.1 driver reportedly alters the BIOS settings and changes the boot options to make the system crash. As a cautionary measure, users should not be so quick to reinstall the operating system on their computer but to check the boot settings and change the option back to the previous settings. We would also advise users to use DDU or Display Driver Uninstaller and do a clean install of the new graphics drivers.

 

Latest AMD Radeon Graphics Drivers Reportedly Causing PC Boot Issues & Corrupting Windows

AMD Adrenalin 23.2.1 drivers were released yesterday, offering updates for both the Radeon RX 7000 & Radeon RX 6000 GPU families. Now, the most current update appears to be crashing PCs, sending users error messages that exclaim that the system has an "inaccessible boot drive" error, reports several users from the ComputerBase forums.

 

 

And the fun continue... AMD’s lastest GPU drivers may limit VRAM on Ryzen 6800U powered AYANEO consoles to 0.5 GB
https://videocardz.com/newz/amds-lastest-gpu-drivers-may-limit-vram-on-ryzen-6800u-powered-ayaneo-consoles-to-0-5-gb

Ack!

Can't believe I'm saying this but stick with the black crocs over those "RGB equivalent" white Crocs. 🤣

I mean those white ones WOULD match your HOF 4090! 😂

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

If you can get the XOC vBIOS and app from Galax let's try it with my Suprim and see what happens. You never know. There were things that were not supposed to work like the Kingpin vBIOS and Classified tool did work with my shunt modded 2080 Ti FTW3. The KPE vBIOS worked great and even the Classified tool increased the voltage. The sliders did not work on the Classified tool, but simply launching it caused the voltage max to increase. I used the voltage curve tool with MSI Afterburner to trick it into going higher. I will take the extra GPU core voltage any way it can get it.  I think you have to contact Galax to get it with proof of ownership of the HOF card, just as the only way you could get the XOC vBIOS and Classified tool for EVGA was to email Vince and provide your EVGA invoice and serial number. I am using the 666W HOF vBIOS right now. I think they may have a 1000W HOF XOC vBIOS for the 4090. The 2000W HOF XOC vBIOS also worked fine on my 2080 Ti FTW3.

 

I think you made the right decision. I am glad that the Strix GPU was never available and you ended up with the HOF. I believe you are going to be better off  in every way with the HOF. I have heard Galax warranty service sucks, but we already know that is true of ASUS. I doubt Galax is worse than ASUS. QC from ASUS is also terrible. Galax did not get the reputation they have by selling sloppy broken garbage like ASUS does.

That would be great if the HOF vBIOS would work on the Suprim. It will be interesting to see the results unfettered, blocked with one of the most robust (if not thee most robust) PCBs of all the consumer cards.

6 hours ago, cylix said:

 

I saw this earlier.

Basically AMD sweet spot (as reported even by AMD at launch) is ~6000. It can't really go over and under at 5200 it suffers serious performance loss.

On the other hand, Intel beats it low, mid  or high and can continue to scale up to 8000 and still experience performance gains (as indicated with the 7200 memory scores) further separating itself from AMD chips.

I'm hoping X3D chips give AMD that punch they need like the 5800X3D did but hopefully we don't suffer dips when the cache was full/exhausted to the extent the 5800X3D can in certain scenarios. I'm thinking the 7800X3D is going to be the single chiplet killer of the group at a good price.

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

Yep, I like them and I like such features. Reminds me about the Fn+1 combo for my Clevo😀 Regarding the apps. I don't think Galax apps will works properly on other cards. Todays' modern tech as you know. Once nvidia get rid of Galax in the same way as they did with EVGA.... All we have left is Gamer toy cards with even more fancy back-plates and more ARGB bling bling lights over the whole card. I want a good fashion card now for the future. The future looks grim for next gen high end AIC cards. It will go the way it went for laptops. No more avesome... Only fancy bling bling.

 

See what popped up in my email today. Got notice that the White and the black 4090 Strix OC could be ordered (1 card). The White version went rigth out and was empty. But I could put the black in my basket. For the first time since November I was able to buy it. Amazing, 4.5 hours after the notify and the shop still have the cards in.

 

And they also give a way a free $20 Asus mouse. Why not just scrap the freebee and instead reduce the price for the whole card? But I expect this is the way Asus deal with it's customers. No need for a mouse... We need cheaper cards. 

 

I will keep the 4090 HOF I ordered. The design and features grow on me. + Galax use none RGB fans. I hate RGB fans. And from what I know... The HOF card will be easier to sell in the used market here home and in EU (almost none of these cards is possible to buy). And white custom AIC cards will be more and more popular. My youngest and oldest son went with it (white chassis, and want same theme all over). Same for many of their friends.

 

Asus had their chance, but couldn't deliver. Its' on their. Not on me. And I had the money ready. I wonder why Asus never was able to produce enough of their better cards. Prefered throw out their cheaper gamer cards for maxed profits?

 

 

You definitely made the right call keeping the HOF. I don't know who's more excited you or I lol. 🙂

Asus can kick rocks.

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

 

Not going to lie, I am a bit jealous. Congrats on the card. While we joke that since EVGA has left the GPU industry, no one else can measure up, the HOF cards are the only ones that went head to head with the KP cards. 

 

I can't wait to see what you can do with it.

I'm stoked to see it in a fellow board member's hands and see it run through its paces!

Between your HOF and @Mr. Fox blocking a Suprim X, lots of good info and pics incoming over the next several weeks. Situations like this are why I love this small group of enthusiasts.

On 2/12/2023 at 3:37 PM, Papusan said:

For the future I would say go with the 4090 if you are gamer and you keep your HW until EOL date for drivers (up to 8 years). 16GB vram or below is a  no go 6 years down the road. Just look at the 3080@10GB 4K flagship. Can't be used as intended forwards.

 

 

And I hope they burn in with loads of overpriced MB. And I hope this will affect Nvidia and AMD's gamer cards.

 

Motherboard Shipments Plummet by Ten Million Units in 2022: Report

The combined hit for Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, and ASRock reportedly around 10 million.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/motherboard-shipments-drop-ten-million-units-in-2022-report

3080 w/ 10GB was always going to be an issue for a card that can do 4k. I think i even mentioned it too on the NBR forums when I was quoting VRAM allocations with my original 3090 Founders.

As for motherboard sales slumping.....I turn the mike over to @Mr. Fox

On 2/12/2023 at 3:47 PM, Mr. Fox said:

We can only hope...

 

The article misses the mark on what is to blame...

The problem, at least in great part, is due to their idiotic pricing. I do not believe it is due to lack of demand or economic downturn. People that don't have money and shouldn't spend what they do not have are being more stupid than ever about using credit cards. (That is going to bite them--and maybe the rest of us--in the butt before in the long run, but it is what it is.) I think the real issue is there are enough people that are not stupid, so they are not giving into stupid prices.

 

Even the mediocre gamer mobos are priced like the high-end enthusiast/overclocker boards now. The high-end options are beyond ridiculous pricing, but they are still selling because people like us place importance on having what we want over being intelligent about how we spend money.  The mid-range Strix mobos are a good example. I bought mine on eBay as refurbished/open-box option for what should have been new retail pricing, but new retail price is/was more than what I paid for a Dark mobo on sale direct from EVGA. It's OK, but the Strix is definitely not an enthusiast board. It is a gamer mobo prices like an overclocker mobo.

Well said.

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

Me..... Still not opened the package with my new screen (see pict) due me still waiting on Asus 4090 Strix OC..... Me, will never be the 4090 Strix OC (impossible to get, due ordering competition is so hard).... Me checked out other places every day over weeks..... Me, one day I found an other option(see above)..... Me ordered KFA2 4090 HOF (The co-branding of GALAX in EU)..... Me, now have to order the second BE QUIET! 12VHPWR PCI-E ADAPTER CABLE (dual chance for Nvidia connector melting and fire, LOOL). 

 

In short.... Me looking on my own self-awareness... Me seeing I'm Klin Kokos, LOOL

 

We have words for this here home bro Fox... "Klin kokos" https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klin_kokos

 

Translated into English... KOKO

 

Oh' well, Asus lost their chance to get my hard earned money (They reduce inventory to keep up high disgusting prices)and I was forced to spend more than needed ($200). What a game. But in the end, with the Norwegian 25% Tax on top, the HOF card won't be more expensive here home. I don't pay more than what you have to pay in other countries. This is the only good I can say about this purchase.

 

The weird part.... 4090 HOF is almost impossible to get in the whole EU. Being able to get your hands on one here in little Norway is quite interesting. Will believe it when I see the shipping label. This means I will wait ordering the second power connector until I see the shipping label is delivered in my email. 

 

Electrosoft, no pict of my all black crocs now, but new pict will come a later day

My wife ordered this one. I knew nothing before I woke up and checked the mail 🙂

 

 

Awesome @Papusan and congrats on the purchase! I think you'll be the first of this group with a real HOF class card from the last 2-3 generations so we can see one in actual use. Looking forward to pics, performance and opinions. Again, congrats bro!

7 minutes ago, Talon said:

Returned. None available to swap with. Asked them to just order me one or put me on a list and they can’t. So dang annoying. Now I’m back to the F5 squad as this laptop seems to be pretty popular given the specs/price compare to the rest of the pack. And 18” screen has now ruined me. I just could not accept 2 decent large dead pixel clusters on a brand new device. I saw someone else got them. I’ve had it happen on a few laptops and usually a swap gets you one without. 
 

Right on about about the silicon. This one seemed pretty cherry. Over 33K in a laptop at 172W and not thermal throttling is pretty crazy. I already miss it and want it back lol. 

With the return window still in play, I would have held onto it hoping to get another one in stock, compare the silicon and if needed swap the display.

How was the coil whine? D2D said both models whined ( 4080 and 4090):

43 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

It's a Strix 18 with 4080/13980HX. Honestly a pretty incredible deal for the package overall. Unfortunately I have to return it in the morning as mine arrived with 2 dead pixel clusters/dirt under the display right next to each other almost top/center area. Pretty annoying TBH. But the display itself is pretty incredible and for 18" display area, 6-7lbs isn't bad at all. Too bad it's all BGA, but damn this thing is fast for a laptop. 

 

Now I have to wait for BB to get another unit in since they're sold out. I wish they would let you order a replacement and keep current until then, but nope. 

Hopefully the replacement is equal or better silicon and I agree with dead pixels. That's an instant return unless you can authorize a display swap.

7 hours ago, Talon said:

@Mr. Fox you got a 4090?! Awesome. Which model? Sorry haven't jumped through the backlog of pages I have here. 

 

Picked up a new BGA toy.

 

Whoa, which one did you get? I was looking at MSI Titan i9-13980HX GT77 results earlier. That level of laptop performance is pretty monstrous and for better or worse the 4000 series GPUs are a much better upgrade this time around compared to 3000 series.

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I can see what they are saying now, but still do not agree with requiring ECC enabled. This will probably move up in ranking on HWBOT when they finish deleting scores that cannot demonstrate ECC was enabled. It knocks roughly 1,000 points off in Time Spy. My CPU and GPU are both overclocked higher that scores higher than mine. My physics score is much higher, but their GPU scores are off the charts with ECC disabled.

 

@electrosoft +1600 memory seems stable. No artifacts.

 

Using the Galax HOF 666W vBIOS.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/35634413 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5198499_

 

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/88953755 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5198507_

 

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/88954202 | https://hwbot.org/submission/5198509_

 

Nice! I might have to give that vBios a whirl. What was the GPU-Z sensor output on that Timespy run?

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

This is my best thus far. Once I get the bare die Velocity2 from EKWB (probably end of month) I will work on pushing 6.0+ GHz on all P-cores in Cinebench.

 

Beautiful seeing the KPE Z690 hitting such memory frequencies. I wish it was just a bit cheaper or I would have picked one up. I almost did when they had a combo deal going and included a KB and M for $499.99 but with shipping I still couldn't do the mental math to "math it down" to $400 in my head. 🤣

11 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I answered my own question. ECC garbage really gums up the works. About 6% slower even with a higher overclock. HWBOT sucks for making that a requirement.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/sw/339800/sw/339363#

Yeah ECC definitely lowers your performance. For D2D gaming and such it isn't really noticeable but for benching and every point counts? Yep......Good thing is it doesn't alter my D2D clocks but when pushing >+1500 it is having none of that nonsense. Have you tried an on the edge run knowing it will artifact with it on yet?

Not sure why HWBOT is making it a requirement. Just make it optional and I'm sure no one will use it. 🙂

10 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Hopefully mine will be at least that good. If not, it's going back to Amazon for a refund. Will know later today. It has been sitting at UPS since Tuesday on delivery hold since I was out of town until last night. Maxing out at +700 is unacceptable. Premium price demands a premium product, and that is garbage. 

Good luck! All I know is if I had ordered only from Best Buy I would probably feel the same as @Papusan about MSI at the moment that's for sure. Good luck!

3 hours ago, Rage Set said:

An interesting story and a question for you all.

 

I had someone message me on FB Marketplace about a GPU I have for sale. I noticed the profile was completely sparse. Interesting. The person haggled per normal but we agreed on a price. He asked about meeting in a city between him and I (he supposedly lives in Mass.). I told him I normally deal in the surrounding cities because I only meet near Police stations and I notify the police dept of the city I am heading to ahead of time to let them know I am legally armed and I will be in their city (this protects me in several ways in this very leftist state). His messaging tone changed. 

 

I told him I could meet him in a different city (ten minutes away from the city he suggested). He quickly changed his mind. He told me it was too far and he's now going to be pressed for time after work. Strange.

 

I do tell all of my potential in-person buyers that I am armed. I rather they know ahead of time before seeing me in person with my holstered weapon. Should I stop doing this? Telling buyers that I am armed? If you were going to meet with someone to buy something from them and they openly told you they were legally armed, would that cause you to cancel the transaction?

Some set their privacy settings high on their profiles so unless you're a friend you really can't see much.

Many do not like or want to be around firearms especially on someone else. For what should be a routine meetup for swap parts for cash or Venmo/PP, a gun would seem out of place.

While it is good to let them know you actively carry, a legit buyer may take it as a veiled threat or intimidation. A bad actor will leave or just come with their own firepower / group.

I grew up around guns hunting and range shooting so it would have meant nothing to me. I'd be more apt to ask what you're carrying and what type of holster you picked and why. 🙂

With that being said, continue to practice measures that make YOU feel safe. Facebook is one step removed from craigslist at this point.

2 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

The 4090 seems like it is probably a decent sample. I literally just got it and installed it. I will do some more testing to confirm it's not a turd before ordering a waterblock for it tomorrow.

 

Stock:

OC'd:

Nice! and once you hit 3000+ and +1500 mem you are suddenly going to be hard press to "fish" for better silicon seeing as even some Founders topped out at +1000 mem. It is a literal crapshoot.

10 hours ago, Raiderman said:

Only 2K....hahaha. No effing way would I pay that kind of cabbage for a GPU. Thats just plain silly.

Exact same way I feel about people who buy expensive cars, motorbikes, homes or take crazy luxury level vacations. I feel the same way about people who spend thousands a year on smoking or drinking. I also feel the same way about those who spend a crapton of money on golf clubs, designer clothes or jewelry. What an absolute waste and just plain silly. But that is their vice. 🙂

I look upon those who waste all that money on any of thee above the same way you look upon expensively priced GPUs.

Fancy computer parts are no different. The common / frugal man can easily get by with sub $300 priced parts. The common / frugal man can also get by with an efficient compact car, a 1 bedroom flat (expand this as needed per child), no need for designer clothes, nice jewelry, motorbikes, fancy meals, luxury travel or more.....

You drew your personal line in the sand and said, "this is what I'm willing to spend and what *I* think a GPU should cost" like me with motherboards. I just can't stomach paying more than $400 for a motherboard. I wish everybody would stop buying motherboards for >$400 because the pricing is getting out of hand but that's my own line in the sand. This hardline applies whether it is $401 or $5000 and yet I still get excited and happy to see other techies get this stuff and post results.

3 hours ago, Raiderman said:

That's some seriously flawed logic. Just because a gpu happens to be the best makes it ok to be bent over? 2k just to have bragging rights on the bot? Oh, wait. ..can't have that either, haha. We wonder why prices for gpu's are so high? It's exactly from that type of thinking. Smh

 

I won't pay for an AMD card that's $600 over priced either, so your argument fails on that as well.

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

😎😎😎

 

My logic... I don't like MSI and below 4090 SKUs is in no man's land (disgusting price vs value). I haven't many options left outside continue play with my old parts. Thats the truth. I have tried 4090 Liquid X and returned it. And I won't re-buy that card evn its cheaper. So my options is quite limited. And I normally don't spend much money on graphics cards. Mostly $10-100 USD. So not so sure the reason for the stupid high prices is due me 🙂

The logic is simple:

You want a 4090

The only viable models that meet your criteria were MSI Suprim and Asus Strix

Your MSI was a poor sample so you returned it

Now your choice is to try another MSI or wait for an Asus

You've opted to wait to try an Asus

The next question is, what if the Asus is a bad or worse sample? I'm very happy with my Suprim. looking at other people's results over the last several weeks, I realize it has abnormally high out of box boost clocks (2835) which allows it to overclock and game  at 3120mhz with fantastic temps and no coil whine with fans on auto no less. This was solidified by the second one I picked up from Best buy (I dub thee: ClockFails Von Coilwhine) that in hingsight for clocks (having looked around at countless others running games and benchmarks) wasn't *bad* just that my first one from Newegg was really good. Memory clocks are right where they should be and above average overall at +1500 stable ~+1600 for benching compared to the trash heap that second card topping out at +700. You may have tried another and been very happy with it but that initial sour taste means Asus is up next.

As for expensive GPUs, everyone has their vices. I have friends that spend 10-15k a year if not more on golf trips. Some spend 5-10k easily on fine dining. Others even more than that collecting top shelf liquors and cigars. Some continue to lease expensive, high end cars. Others pour 10s of thousands into their own car collections and motorbikes. Even some who pour 10-20k a year traveling for luxury.......not my cup of tea but I'm not the one serving or sipping it.