*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

Crysis 3 Remastered on Linux...

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Maybe it’s not true and it’s all BS, but a lot of these engineers responsible for testing etc swear that degradation was a problem even for 12900K’s, and especially 13900K’s now that the power envelope is pushed so high. I don’t know what to believe anymore. Maybe it’s the guys running these long loads for hours on end everyday who are only seeing degradation. 

13th gen run at lower voltage vs 12th gen with quite high clock speed (Intel bragged about that they shaved of above 60mv vs 12th gen chips) and me think the high power consumption will prevent many chips from dying. People are cooling limited before the higher voltage is a problem. 
 

As of Caseking and der8auer said for their prebinned 11th and 12th gen chips. The core voltage that we have defined and that is necessary for stable OC operation is specified on the packaging of each pre-tested CPU. Depending on the voltage supply of the mainboard used, there is a tolerance range of approximately +/- 20 mV.  In order to protect the silicon, the maximum core voltage is a harmless 1.37 volts at most.

 
At this voltage many will run into thermal problems with the newer gen Intel processors. 

 

Too high voltage, high clock speed and very high temps will degrade the chips. Remember the soldered processors. Many run high voltage and 100C, but those throttle down clock speed once it hit 100C and hence lowered the voltage for prolonged life. You can tune your chips up to well above 90C and with high clocks and high voltage (won't trottle as the BGA chips and hence will run hot and with max volage). This is doomed to fail.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5127199_papusan_wprime___32m_core_i9_13900k_(8p)_1sec_488ms?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5127160_papusan_3dmark05_geforce_gtx_980_107383_marks

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5127180_papusan_3dmark06_geforce_gtx_980_85385_marks

 

 

[Etern4l]

10 hours ago, tps3443 said:

 BESTBUY 13900K 

 

MSI FORCE 2= 124 (With normal ambient water temps) holy crap. it’s 10 points better than my last one. I promise I didn’t sell my soul @Mr. Fox 

 

 

I also noticed a very LOW bios voltage, much lower than my last chip. 
 

😂

 

155 here. Basically buying CPUs outside the US is pointless!

 

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Crysis 3 Remastered on Linux...

 

Stop will all the temptations, Satan! ;)

 

(How is the performance vs Windoze? Which version of Proton(-GE) are you using?)

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

155 here. Basically buying CPUs outside the US is pointless!

 

 

Stop will all the temptations, Satan! 😉

 

(How is the performance vs Windoze? Which version of Proton(-GE) are you using?)

Performance difference seems indiscernable compared to Windows with 100+ FPS... (~60 FPS with "High" ray tracing) with "High" global settings. It is very smooth. I am using the Steam "Experimental" version of Proton. (The game is not available to install with the normal verson.) It runs flawlessly and the installation was as painless (essentially effortless) as installing on Windows.

[Raiderman]

Here's everyone! I missed the witty banter from you guys. Thanks @Mr. Foxfor letting me know where everyone was. 👍

[Reciever]

5 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Here's everyone! I missed the witty banter from you guys. Thanks @Mr. Foxfor letting me know where everyone was. 👍

Glad you made it back! Always nice to see familiar faces :) 

[tps3443]

7 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

My guess is the degradation they're seeing is from running too high a voltage on the CPU for too long. Out of anything you can do to a CPU, there is nothing that has more potential to permanently damage your CPU than voltages that are too high. Temps and power draw aren't really a problem, it's voltage. Although temps and power draw can definitely affect your CPU's longevity, voltage affects it much more.

 

Heavy benching won't degrade the CPU unless you cross a certain voltage threshold. I'd say 1.4 volts on anything from Skylake up to Rocket Lake is a good long term max voltage that won't harm your CPU even if running 24/7 with that voltage. For Alder Lake and Raptor Lake, I think the maximum voltage considered safe for 24/7 operation is 1.3 volts, but I think you'll be fine up to 1.4 volts for long gaming sessions. It's when you exceed these values during long term operation that you may experience problems.

 

I'd say if you never exceed 1.4 volts during a long 6 hour gaming session, you'll be fine. If you want to be super duper sure, find out what your max stable all P-Core overclock is using adaptive voltage with the voltage offset at 0mv and using conventional water cooling, like on a 360mm AIO. Take note of the highest voltage you see, and don't ever exceed that value.

 

I don’t think it’s volts. It is the voltage combined with the load you’re running. Intel says even 1.655-1.720V is perfectly within spec, but at only like 80-100 amps lol. 
 

Think about it this way. I don’t want to burn my hand on the oven. I can hold my hand 2” away from the burner on low without getting burned. Or I can hold my hand 6” away on medium. It’s all about staying inside that range of power draw without damaging it. 
 

From what the engineers are saying, the higher the load, the lower your Vcore must be. The lower the VCore the higher your load and amperage can be.
 

Gaming at 5.6-5.7 on my 11900K@1.600V totally harmless low amperage, lower power.

Running Cinebench or Prime 95 at the same voltage? Probably instant Degradation. But just sending even 1.650+ and gaming or working using light apps definitely won’t harm your CPU at all. 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

Here's everyone! I missed the witty banter from you guys. Thanks @Mr. Foxfor letting me know where everyone was. 👍

Welcome back, Brother! Glad you were able to join us. We missed you, man.

1 hour ago, Reciever said:

Glad you made it back! Always nice to see familiar faces 🙂

Indeed. Familiar name, too... since you both have the same first name. 😄

[Papusan]

This just show that you don't play in the same game field vs the fab/elite benchers. And the same apply also for both for MB and ram sticks. You just can't have it all. Regardless if you bench on sub zero or higher ambient cooling. And with even more binning from Intel to push out refresh for same SKU, the difference wont be less. Just do as good you can. You just can't win even if you do it good in the ordinary lottery. You all are doomed to be nr2 or last🙂

 

@Raiderman Nice to see an old face 🙂

[Etern4l]

I acted on bad advice from a guy in the pastes thread and tried this cheapo SYY 157 or something paste. Looked good initially but, in retrospect, instability started after just a couple of days. I blamed it on undervolting, but now I can see that the higher the voltage the more instability there is and P-Core deltas ran into 13-14C. Wasted so much time in this garbage. I need to repaste ASAP, and I'm not sure I have enough Phobya Nanogrease Extreme, which is tried and true. How would you rate these pastes? 

 

* MX-5

* TF7

* CoolerMaster CryoFuze nano 14W/m.K (tried this on a GPU and wasn't impressed) 

 

MX-6 won't get here in time. 

[Papusan]

12 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

I acted on bad advice from a guy in the pastes thread and tried this cheapo SYY 157 or something paste. In retrospect instability started after just a couple of days. I blamed it on undervolting, but now I can see that the higher the voltage the more instability there is and P-Core deltas ran into 13-14C. Garbage. I need to repaste ASAP, and I'm not sure I have enough Phobya Nanogrease Extreme, which is tried and true. How would you rate these pastes? 

 

* MX-5

* TF7

* CoolerMaster CryoFuze nano 14W/m.K

 

MX-6 won't get here in time. 

MX-5 is a lottery. EOL now due variable quality (batch problems). I use the more expensive Kryonaut Extreme. 

 

Edit: Thermalright TF7 vs Arctic mx-5 - Overclock.net

 

Ps. I used the old CoolerMaster Maker Gel with good results. The former best paste from CoolerMaster. 

[Etern4l]

14 minutes ago, Papusan said:

MX-5 is a lottery. EOL now due variable quality (batch problems). I use the more expensive Kryonaut Extreme. 

 

Edit: Thermalright TF7 vs Arctic mx-5 - Overclock.net

 

Thanks, I considered Kryonaut Extreme but a lot of people say it breaks down quickly, same as Kryonaut. Would you concur? This needs to be super reliable over prolonged periods of max load, and Phobya (or at least my lucky tube) definitely fits that bill. 

 

BTW I thought you use LM? Why not anymore? 

[tps3443]

19 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Thanks, I considered Kryonaut Extreme but a lot of people say it breaks down quickly, same as Kryonaut. Would you concur? This needs to be super reliable over prolonged periods of max load, and Phobya (or at least my lucky tube) definitely fits that bill. 

 

BTW I thought you use LM? Why not anymore? 

I am running Coolermaster CryoFuze, this stuff has a 14.0 M/k-w rating. And it works absolutely amazing. Spreading it is easy, and it just works. I’m sold on it now. I am using it on this new 13900K I’ve got, and my temps are better than my prior 13900KF which was delidded. Now, this chip uses less power and less voltage. But either way it’s great paste! I have used them all. Kryonaut Extreme works well too, but it’s just too expensive and it’s not any better than Coolermaster Cryo Fuze. This is straight up “Gamer boy” thermal paste. But, what can I do? it just works really good.

 

 

 

[Etern4l]

1 minute ago, tps3443 said:

I am running Coolermaster CryoFuze, this stuff has a 14.0 M/k-w rating. And it works absolutely amazing. Spreading it is easy, and it just works. I’m sold on it now. I am using it on this new 13900K I’ve got, and my temps are better than my prior 13900KF which was delidded. Now, this chip uses less power and less voltage. But either way it’s great paste! I have used them all. Kryonaut Extreme works well too, but it’s just too expensive and it’s not any better than Coolermaster Cryo Fuze. This is straight up “Gamer boy” thermal paste. But, what can I do? it just works really good.

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Yeah, that's the one I have. Wasn't impressed but could be that I expected miracles. Will probably try this if there isn't enough Phobya to cover. Did you have a chance to try MX-5?

[electrosoft]

17 hours ago, Papusan said:

And here I sit, benching months after months. The 12900K have been near peak power/clocks all time since Feb until now. Yet, not have seen any degradation. It will soon have a nice life in a gaming rig for my son. Maybe I will call it "in retirement", LOOL

 

I would rather say you should be a bit more careful with the IMC. Have seen a few chips that can't run memory at peak anymore. But the cores still kick ass. 

 

16 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I’m gonna say that you’re very good with maintaining low temps, and you help prevent degradation probably. Maybe not the average person though.
 

I hit my 11900K super hard too. Heavy power, heavy amperage. But, it never went above 75C with heavy benching. And realistically stayed well below 50C on a daily basis. It’s as good as ever. And now it’s living on a AIO@5.4 which is just laughable lol.

 

Maybe it’s not true and it’s all BS, but a lot of these engineers responsible for testing etc swear that degradation was a problem even for 12900K’s, and especially 13900K’s now that the power envelope is pushed so high. I don’t know what to believe anymore. Maybe it’s the guys running these long loads for hours on end everyday who are only seeing degradation. 
 

I don’t really know what to expect, I just know it’s being thrown around more than ever. I feel like if I keep doing what I’m doing I’ll be fine. And that’s numero #1 (Keep the cpu as cool as possible) is really all I got.

 

 

14 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

My guess is the degradation they're seeing is from running too high a voltage on the CPU for too long. Out of anything you can do to a CPU, there is nothing that has more potential to permanently damage your CPU than voltages that are too high. Temps and power draw aren't really a problem, it's voltage. Although temps and power draw can definitely affect your CPU's longevity, voltage affects it much more.

 

Heavy benching won't degrade the CPU unless you cross a certain voltage threshold. I'd say 1.4 volts on anything from Skylake up to Rocket Lake is a good long term max voltage that won't harm your CPU even if running 24/7 with that voltage. For Alder Lake and Raptor Lake, I think the maximum voltage considered safe for 24/7 operation is 1.3 volts, but I think you'll be fine up to 1.4 volts for long gaming sessions. It's when you exceed these values during long term operation that you may experience problems.

 

I'd say if you never exceed 1.4 volts during a long 6 hour gaming session, you'll be fine. If you want to be super duper sure, find out what your max stable all P-Core overclock is using adaptive voltage with the voltage offset at 0mv and using conventional water cooling, like on a 360mm AIO. Take note of the highest voltage you see, and don't ever exceed that value.

 

In many of these cases you have them running Y-Cruncher or similar and just red lining their CPUs for hours in not only pull but equally (or more) important temps. If you want to sit there and have your CPU plow through Y-Cruncher at 88c+ be my guest that's not my cup of tea.

 

For every OC'er that posts a killer OC with their own testing criteria, you will always...ALWAYS have someone yip in about, "Well what about OCCT? Y-Cruncher? P95? Run that for a Bazillion Hours and let's see!" Like some of these OC's are D2D?

When I see those posts I just grimace and move to the next.

 

I may do OC runs for shiggles that momentarily (less than a few minutes) hit high temps but my D2D is always about finding the sweet spot of a good clock at the lowest pull (even stock). This especially extends to my laptop use. The two modes of operation can co-exist and are not mutually exclusive.

 

@tps3443 the nature of your setup helps prevent those sustained, high temp runs that in unison with pull *may* cause degradation.

 

 

 

 

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

Thanks. Yeah, that's the one I have. Wasn't impressed but could be that I expected miracles. Will probably try this if there isn't enough Phobya to cover. Did you have a chance to try MX-5?

I spread the paste really thin on the CPU IHS first, then I install the CPU in the socket. Press down on my waterblock in the very center, then I lightly turn thumbscrews until they just stop, then cross snug pattern, then cross snug firmly again. 
 

Never used MX5 before. 

[Etern4l]

2 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I spread the paste really thin on the CPU IHS first, then I install the CPU in the socket. Press down on my waterblock in the very center, then I lightly turn thumbscrews until they just stop, then cross snug pattern, then cross snug firmly again. 
 

Never used MX5 before. 

 

I do the same. Applied Phobya, looks much better so far, too early for a definitive statement of success yet. This SYY stuff basically turned into powder in a matter of what? 10 days? 

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Thanks, I considered Kryonaut Extreme but a lot of people say it breaks down quickly, same as Kryonaut. Would you concur? This needs to be super reliable over prolonged periods of max load, and Phobya (or at least my lucky tube) definitely fits that bill. 

 

BTW I thought you use LM? Why not anymore? 

I don't have processors a long time in the machines. And I swap parts often so I can't say how long it will last. But from what I can see from others the pink version isn't so affected as the old Grizzly Kryonaut. But I can't see much of a difference from new to the next re-paste.

 

Here is another great choice. Noctua NT-H2 (even H1). This paste isn't affected by it breaks down. Have used this and a good cheap option. No need to look other places if you want a good paste that will last.

 

I use liquid metal for laptops. Not really needed for desktops. And many here won't buy used processors where the stamp on the lid is almost gone. Same problem also apply delidded processors. How good and cool they running doesn't matter. 

 

Edit. It seems Jay'z can't get enough of Kryonaut Extreme😃 7:25 sek

 

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

I do the same. Applied Phobya, looks much better so far, too early for a definitive statement of success yet. This SYY stuff basically turned into powder in a matter of what? 10 days? 

I haven’t really compared this CryoFuze stuff to anything yet though. Brand new 13900K, with a brand new paste, and it just runs really cool on my setup. I could potentially swap it out with Kryonaut Extreme pink stuff, and possibly see a little temp reduction lol. 

[tps3443]

Playing with new daily settings! 
 

 

[electrosoft]

Very nice to see for the first time in a long time a new Nvidia GPU not sell out on Best Buy immediately.

 

4080 dropped around 12EST.

4EST and plenty still in stock including a few open boxes of them.

 

 

 

 

[Etern4l]

19 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Playing with new daily settings! 
 

 

 

 

Can't actually see on the video: what is your stable E-Core ratio? Nm, I was running a massive stress test in background and YT forced 360p.

 

Why 55x on E-Cores? Couldn't go higher or don't want to?

[tps3443]

6 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

 

Can't actually see on the video: what is your stable E-Core ratio?

Youtube will fix the quality momentarily, it’s always bad right after it’s uploaded. I have not touched the E-Cores yet. I just set 45 E-Cores, and 51 cache and left it. I have not tried to go past 45. 

[Ashtrix]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

I do the same. Applied Phobya, looks much better so far, too early for a definitive statement of success yet. This SYY stuff basically turned into powder in a matter of what? 10 days? 

 

I still have to use TFX and report on long run but from what I read Thermalright TFX lasts longer this is what was suggested in those RTX3090 VRAM padding and re-pasting, the main issue is spreading you cannot spread it you have to rely on the HS contact plate and put it in boiling water for at-least 30-40mins before job else it won't even come out easily. Another issue is the price. It's too expensive. 14.3W/mK is the rating for this.

 

I tried it when I was trying to build the machine, it is indeed not easy to deal but once you get the job done I do not think it will go anywhere and performance is also good.

 

KPX will need re-paste job more frequently, GC Extreme is also dropping in quality I think but it will last good amount still needs a re-paste.

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

This just show that you don't play in the same game field vs the fab/elite benchers. And the same apply also for both for MB and ram sticks. You just can't have it all. Regardless if you bench on sub zero or higher ambient cooling. And with even more binning from Intel to push out refresh for same SKU, the difference wont be less. Just do as good you can. You just can't win even if you do it good in the ordinary lottery. You all are doomed to be nr2 or last🙂

 

@Raiderman Nice to see an old face 🙂

The elite chosen are an entitled group. In fact, I honestly don't believe CENS wanted the CPU from @tps3443for himself as much as wanting to remove it from "retail" circulation because extraordinary silicon samples diminish the fake sense of mystery and talent the chosen need to validate their position. Even the comment by Splave exposes the subtle arrogance, although it probably was not intended to send that message. He may have well said, "Nice to see a pion accidentally get lucky with retail garbage that wasn't reserved for them." Guys like you and me and @johnksss could be a very dangerous threat to the elite overclockers' status if we got our hands on silicon samples like those @tps3443has lucked out with, and they know it. They're not worried about silly gamer kids that have no idea what they have, nor should they be. They're going to be too busy bragging about their low voltage and low power draw rather than chasing world records. Even if we didn't go down the LN2 path and take their crowns away, the gap between their spots on the leaderboard and the "not chosen" riff raff would be too close for their comfort.