*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I spent several hours again last night/early morning with limited sleep trying to get the 6900 XT to work in Windows 7. I got to the point of eliminating the code 12 error in Device Manager using a very old driver. It appear to function, but does not. Aero does not work and there is no 3D graphic acceleration in Windows even though Device Manager reports the device is functioning normally. If I try to open Radeon Settings I get an error that the drivers are not installed even though they are.

 

I am wondering now if the issue is a conflict the GPU firmware has with the Alder Lake system BIOS and/or ACPI. It may be chipset or motherboard/vendor specific. Windows 7 still refuses to boot with the BIOS in Legacy mode with the 6900 XT. It freezes in Legacy mode in the same manner that one would normally expect it to freeze in UEFI mode without CSM enabled. It is very bizarre behavior and the exact opposite of what I would normally expect to see booting Windows 7 without CSM. 

Do you have another machine than the one with EVGA motherboard?

 

Should work with Asus board... And maybe Gpu firmware that play well with Win 7

 

 

Edit. Is this a Joke from EVGA? https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-nvidia-rtx-4090-owners-club.1800847/post-29157300

 

Near 5 months after Nvidia released 4090 and they still haven't made 12VHPWR cable adapters for 4000 series Nvidia graphics. This has to be a joke or they don't bother invest money in it. And they said they would put more work into their other gears after they jumped of the GPU train.

[Mr. Fox]

51 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Do you have another machine than the one with EVGA motherboard?

 

Should work with Asus board... And maybe Gpu firmware that play well with Win 7

Maybe. I cannot boot Windows 7 in pure UEFI mode on the ASUS mobo. I have tried and it fails. I can with the EVGA mobo. Even resizable bar support works in pure UEFI mode on the EVGA mobo. In both cases that is with NVIDIA GPUs. This is the only AMD GPU tested. The problem may be in reverse. I probably won't know the answer to that question unless I decide to buy the 6900 XT because it will go into the ASUS-powered system when I am done benching it. If I decide I do not want to buy it, then I may not want to invest the effort into finding out.

 

Had I known of this issue with Windows 7 before putting a waterblock on the 6900 XT I would have tested in both desktops to see if the problem is different on one machine versus the other, or the same on both.

 

I am only guessing until I jump through the hoops, but the only thing that has changed is going from an NVIDIA GPU to the 6900 XT. That is when Windows 7 gets broken on the EVGA mobo.

  

51 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Edit. Is this a Joke from EVGA? https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-nvidia-rtx-4090-owners-club.1800847/post-29157300

 

Near 5 months after Nvidia released 4090 and they still haven't made 12VHPWR cable adapters for 4000 series Nvidia graphics. This has to be a joke or they don't bother invest money in it. And they said they would put more work into their other gears after they jumped of the GPU train.

I am not sure why they would need to make one. Given the fact that you can buy a cable from Cablemods for $20 USD they probably have no financial incentive to make one. If they did and had to charge more to be profitable, nobody (or many people) would not be willing to pay extra for the cable from EVGA. I know that I would not.

 

[Papusan]

18 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

At the moment, high GPU prices are caused by ChatGPT (which runs on Nvidia GPUs), essentially owned my Microsoft. By supporting Microsoft (using Microsoft products) people support this, and other consequences of that development.

Nvidia will determine their prices out from what they think gain themself (greed). Would you reduce prices if you wasn't forced to do so? What was the reason for this? Because they thought the prices was too high?🙂

 

NVIDIA RTX 4090 FE Receives a 7% Price Drop in Europe Since Launch, 4080

By Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 03/15/2023 07:03 PM

According to Cowcotland, NVIDIA has recently reduced the price of their flagship RTX 4090 Founders Edition (FE) GPU by €40, bringing it down from €1859 to €1819. The card was initially listed for €1949 in the European Union. 

Read more

 

6 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Maybe. I cannot boot Windows 7 in pure UEFI mode on the ASUS mobo. I have tried and it fails. I can with the EVGA mobo. Even resizable bar support works in pure UEFI mode on the EVGA mobo. In both cases that is with NVIDIA GPUs. This is the only AMD GPU tested. The problem may be in reverse. I probably won't know the answer to that question unless I decide to buy the 6900 XT because it will go into the ASUS-powered system when I am done benching it. If I decide I do not want to buy it, then I may not want to invest the effort into finding out.

 

I am only guessing until I jump through the hoops, but the only thing that has changed is going from an NVIDIA GPU to the 6900 XT. That is when Windows 7 gets broken on the EVGA mobo.

 

I see. 

 

Regarding support for graphics cards... No one is interested in older cards even if they still have driver support. Only new will provide profits. I just sit and wait for the kill-switch for Turing and Ampere.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

8 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Regarding support for graphics cards... No one is interested in older cards. Only new will provide profits. I just sit and wait for the kill-switch for Turing and Ampere.

Yup. It is only a matter of time. The digital genocide will come. It is everyone's destiny to get screwed if they are happy to keep using the GPU. The Green Goblin will create a way to make them unhappy, and the Red Robinhood will make sure the drivers malfunction. First will come the fake performance degradation, then comes the EOL for driver support and removal of previously released drivers for download.

 

Remember... we are not customers. We are end users. They don't love us and don't care if we love them... as long as the money keeps flowing.

Quote

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

 

[Etern4l]

6 minutes ago, Papusan said:

NVIDIA has recently reduced the price of their flagship RTX 4090 Founders Edition (FE) GPU by €40

 

lol

 

Well, they don't need to lower the price more aggressively to induce sales, because they are shipping most of their stock to data centers is my contention, and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. 

[Mr. Fox]

5 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

lol

 

Well, they don't need to lower the price more aggressively to induce sales, because they are shipping most of their stock to data centers is my contention, and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. 

It is a meaningless and patronizing gesture. It is certainly not evidence that they are interested in offering value. I find the €40 price drop to be insulting, at best. At worst, it reinforces the thought that the end users that purchase their overpriced products are as dumb as a box of rocks. Many of them are. Some are smart enough to know better, but want what they want and they are willing to get screwed to have what they want. A lot of us fit into that bucket. The Green Goblin knows that both types of end user exist. The price is the same for the stupid as it is the foolish. 

[Papusan]

8 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

lol

 

Well, they don't need to lower the price more aggressively to induce sales, because they are shipping most of their stock to data centers is my contention, and I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. 

But why reduce prices at all if they can't produce enough cards? That's stupid if you work hard to try fulfill their shareholder wishes for max profits. 

[Mr. Fox]

26 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I see. 

54 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Had I known of this issue with Windows 7 before putting a waterblock on the 6900 XT I would have tested in both desktops to see if the problem is different on one machine versus the other, or the same on both.

Maybe one weekend my curiosity or boredom will be great enough to find out. Having to mess with water and tubing beyond using a QDC fitting often causes me to procrastinate.

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

But why reduce prices at all if they can't produce enough cards? That's stupid if you work hard to try fulfill their shareholder wishes for max profits. 

 

As per @Mr. Fox is more a slap in the face than a meaningful reduction. 

My guess is that it's a combination of foreign exchange adjustment (the dollar has lost a bit of value vs the euro recently), and an exercise in operant conditioning of sorts. The idea could have been to train consumers to associate a change in price of 2.5% in this case, with the words "price reduction", whereas the correct terms are "rounding error",  "spare change" and "sad joke".

[ryan]

2 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

"rounding error"

lol, haha thats funny man.

 

I think they should at least throw in a free cpu and power supply lol..its so overpriced its not even funny

[Mr. Fox]

53 minutes ago, ryan said:

lol, haha thats funny man.

 

I think they should at least throw in a free cpu and power supply lol..its so overpriced its not even funny

Unless you are foolish about where you purchase parts, you can buy a 13900KS and a high end mobo like an Apex or Dark, and a decent 360mm AIO and still have at least a $100 USD change left over compared to the price of a better model of RTX 4090. If you're a savvy tech buyer, enough to cover 32GB of Hynix A-die.

  

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

Do you have another machine than the one with EVGA motherboard?

 

Should work with Asus board... And maybe Gpu firmware that play well with Win 7

Another thing I have noticed a few times with the 6900 XT is that upon entering the BIOS on the first screen there is corruption and bizarre colors until the mouse cursor is moved or I use the arrow keys on the keyboard on the first BIOS screen to begin navigation, then it instantly returns to normal. It does not do it every time and no error is produced when it occurs. Just an observation of something weird that happens randomly and has not caused a problem so far.

[Raiderman]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

. My cynical self believes that this is by design to prevent Windows 7 from exposing what botched up messes Windows 10/11 are.

 

 

 

 

I almost guarantee that it is by design. Just as the last AMD driver for windows 7 cripples my overclock. 2560mhz in windows 7, and well over 2675 in Windows 10??? Hmmm

[Mr. Fox]

20 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I almost guarantee that it is by design. Just as the last AMD driver for windows 7 cripples my graphics score in 3dmark 11.

They did the same thing with Fire Strike. That started with Windows 8. You get a fake lower score with Windows 7 because they deliberately built the benchmark to not work as well. They call it "optimization" but it is actually manipulation and misrepresentation.

 

Some people will call it tin foil hat, but I honestly believe the Redmond Reprobates collude with "partners" in the tech industry to manipulate everything they can to deceive people into embracing trash. Lies and deception are their primary vehicles to accomplishing that. Intel Speedshift, DX12, resizable bar, ray tracing and core scheduling are additional examples of misrepresented need for a newer OS downgrade to get "compatibility" with features that only require the new OS due to deliberate fabrication of fake incompatibilities. Their fraud and deception is supported through a complex and highly abusive use of cancer drivers and malignant firmware.

 

All of these technologies do, in fact, function exactly the same with Windows 7. They do not require Windows 10 or 11 to function. I would love to know how much money the Redmond Reprobates have paid to organize the collusive software and firmware engineering and coordination of the marketing propaganda. They haven't bothered to extend the same lies to Linux because the tiny market share it holds is not a serious threat like the one their better and now obsolete operating system poses.

[Papusan]

19 hours ago, Papusan said:

@Mr. Fox It seems I bricked my 980 Kingpin. Flashed the XOC vbios found here in the folder EVGA 980 CLASSIFIED K|NGP|N EDITION TOOLS

 

From the folder

 

 

As usual I disabled the driver in device manager. Made a folder in C:/kingpin and put in the XOC bios and put in the nvflash files. Run CMD as adm.... cd c:\kingpin

 

Next... nvflash -6 kp980x.rom

 

Y for everything and got confirmed the reboot. I rebooted and got a nice black screen 🙂

 

 

I have a small card I can boot with. Have done this before but now forgot the procedure. 

 

Edit. I installed a smaller card in second slot. Booted up and looked into GPU-Z and found the GTX980 still there but with the same old stock vbios. Went into device manager and enabled the Kingpin card. Then shut down the machine. Turned of the on/off switch and the AC plug. Swapped the HDMI cable over to the 980 kingpin and booted up again. There I also got confirmed that the Kingpin card worked but with same old vBios. Hmmmm

 

 

Maybe I need protect off? Nothing in the guide say this. More like this next time...? 

 

Same folder in C:/kingpin with the XOC bios and the nvflash files. Run CMD as adm.... cd c:\kingpin

 

Next... nvflash --protectoff then Enter

 

Next... nvflash -6 kp980x.rom then Enter

 

And is it better to shut down instead for reboot? Shut down and then turn of the on/off switch and AC cable. Then connect power and boot up again?

 

 

This looks fun bro @Mr. Fox Even Kingpin XOC vbios doesn't play well with Maxwell nowadays. First voltage cap in drivers from Nvidia and now I see EVGA's own XOC vbios doesn't play well with the card it was meant for. On top EVGA have forgot that there is people that have paid near $500 for their best PSU's and they force you to buy unofficial 12VHPWR cable adapters for 4000 series Nvidia graphics on Alibaba, ebay etc similar shops. Nice with todays tech (companies). They all sucks!

 

https://extremehw.net/topic/1750-evga-gtx-980-kpe-vbios-modding-adventure/?do=findComment&comment=35662

[Talon]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

This looks fun bro @Mr. Fox Even Kingpin XOC vbios doesn't play well with Maxwell nowadays. First voltage cap in drivers from Nvidia and now I see EVGA's own XOC vbios doesn't play well with the card it was meant for. On top EVGA have forgot that there is people that have paid near $500 for their best PSU's and they force you to buy unofficial 12VHPWR cable adapters for 4000 series Nvidia graphics on Alibaba, ebay etc similar shops. Nice with todays tech (companies). They all sucks!

 

https://extremehw.net/topic/1750-evga-gtx-980-kpe-vbios-modding-adventure/?do=findComment&comment=35662

 

I would keep the vBIOS and attempt a clean Nvidia driver install. I've seen it where a new vBIOS will cause that black screen issue until a clean driver install. 

 

After a couple failed attempts to use PTM 7950 thermal pads on my desktop rig, I gave up on it until the new 7958 came to market in paste form. I ordered a few tubes from Ebuy7 and they arrived this morning from FedEx. 

 

 

Stock clocks, undervolted, and running quiet fans on the 420m AIO. The core to core deltas are the best I've ever had. Initial results were about half as good. But after an afternoon of curing and results are amazing. Far better than my previous Gelid Extreme stuff. Best of all this stuff just paints on, easiest paste I've ever applied. 

[Mr. Fox]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:53 AM, Rage Set said:

I loaned him the card so he could see both sides, but it is likely a short excursion and not a permanent trip. I would like to see him test it in Linux.

On 3/14/2023 at 1:22 PM, Mr. Fox said:

I've already booted into Linux and got it working. It was kind of messed up at first because Ubuntu was trying to update NVIDIA drivers and failing since there is no NVIDIA GPU, and that would cause the other updates to fail. Finally got all of the NVIDIA stuff removed and it straightened right up.  Anything particular you would like to see me run in Linux?

OK... Here are some Linux benchmarks with 6900 XT overclocked core at 2800 and memory at 2200.

Doesn't look like Indigo tests the 6900 XT.

 

[Etern4l]

11 hours ago, Talon said:

 

I would keep the vBIOS and attempt a clean Nvidia driver install. I've seen it where a new vBIOS will cause that black screen issue until a clean driver install. 

 

After a couple failed attempts to use PTM 7950 thermal pads on my desktop rig, I gave up on it until the new 7958 came to market in paste form. I ordered a few tubes from Ebuy7 and they arrived this morning from FedEx. 

 

 

Stock clocks, undervolted, and running quiet fans on the 420m AIO. The core to core deltas are the best I've ever had. Initial results were about half as good. But after an afternoon of curing and results are amazing. Far better than my previous Gelid Extreme stuff. Best of all this stuff just paints on, easiest paste I've ever applied. 

 

Thanks for this. Any idea about the difference in specs between 7950 and 7958? Thermal conductivity is the same. 

 

@cylix

[ryan]

Over 5k in canada for a 4090 laptop? is this real or a joke>?

 

I was thinking of getting a 4090 laptop or a 4090 desktop. I like the idea of portability but if I am forced to spend 5k im getting neither.

[electrosoft]

Best Buy has had Asus Strix 4090 in stock for over a day now (If you wanted to bang your head against the wall one more time @Mr. Fox 🙂 )

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-overclock-24gb-gddr6x-pci-express-4-0-strix-graphics-card-black/6524435.p?skuId=6524435

[cylix]

8 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Thanks for this. Any idea about the difference in specs between 7950 and 7958? Thermal conductivity is the same. 

 

@cylix

Looks like the 7958 is an optimized 7950 and what lenovo is using right now

[Talon]

8 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Thanks for this. Any idea about the difference in specs between 7950 and 7958? Thermal conductivity is the same. 

 

@cylix

 

Looks like this has already been answered by Lenovo, but ya I guess a more optimized version. 

 

https://www.caplinq.com/phase-change-materials.html#FrequentlyAskedQuestions

 

This has a lot of info about PCM paste, installation, curing/melting time, etc. 

[Papusan]

14 hours ago, Talon said:

 

I would keep the vBIOS and attempt a clean Nvidia driver install. I've seen it where a new vBIOS will cause that black screen issue until a clean driver install. 

 

After a couple failed attempts to use PTM 7950 thermal pads on my desktop rig, I gave up on it until the new 7958 came to market in paste form. I ordered a few tubes from Ebuy7 and they arrived this morning from FedEx. 

 

 

Stock clocks, undervolted, and running quiet fans on the 420m AIO. The core to core deltas are the best I've ever had. Initial results were about half as good. But after an afternoon of curing and results are amazing. Far better than my previous Gelid Extreme stuff. Best of all this stuff just paints on, easiest paste I've ever applied. 

Nice results bro Talon 🙂

 

You said.... "I would keep the vBIOS and attempt a clean Nvidia driver install"

 

Not sure what you meant by this. Flashing the 980 Kingpin XOC vbios just render your PC un-bootable. All black. Nothing show up after re-boot or after cold boot. Just a screen Black as Hell.

 

But I found a way to make it work. But it shouldn't be like this. If you flash any type firmware, the PC should be able to boot up again and reach Windows log in screen or the bios boot menu if the flash was succsessful. Not black as Hell. And I'm not the first one to discover the black screen mess with this buggy Evga XOC Kingpin vbios. Some even gave up flash it.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5227659_papusan_gpupi_v3.3___1b_geforce_gtx_980_17sec_544ms/

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5227942_papusan_aquamark_geforce_gtx_980_597133_marks/

 

On 3/14/2023 at 6:31 PM, Papusan said:

Also watch out on Microsofts new low below. They continue improve their fantastic OS and features.

 

I just love the way Microsoft do things. But I and you bro @Mr. Foxalready know this. Yet another reason get rid of Windows Defender. One of many. Whats next? Use the GPU for Telemetry and Data harvesting? Oh' nope... They already do that😎

Nice results bro Fox 🙂 Does the 6900XT grow on you?

Isn't it sweeeet? Micosoft should let it be optional whatever you want Windows Defender to be installed or not when you do your clean Windows OS install. Being forced into features you don't want isn't nice. Yep, you can fix it it afterwards, but I don't want have to clean up others mess afterwards

 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Best Buy has had Asus Strix 4090 in stock for over a day now (If you wanted to bang your head against the wall one more time @Mr. Fox 🙂 )

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-overclock-24gb-gddr6x-pci-express-4-0-strix-graphics-card-black/6524435.p?skuId=6524435

 

Maybe buy 4 so you have a better chance than he here....

 

21 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am not sure why they would need to make one. Given the fact that you can buy a cable from Cablemods for $20 USD they probably have no financial incentive to make one. If they did and had to charge more to be profitable, nobody (or many people) would not be willing to pay extra for the cable from EVGA. I know that I would not.

 

Still... They want close to 500$ for their best PSU's. They could offer one for free or do as Corsair and rest of the High tier brand offer a cable on their Store. They did that for the 3090 but that cable don't works for 4000 series. They scrapped graphics card and wanted to offer better value for their other gears. This is wrong move whatever you say. And they sell more than one PSU models. The lower tier cater to the average Joe and he will go back to the same brand for all parts.

 

" no financial incentive to make one"

 

Push you over on Alibaba or Ebay is a bad move if you want stay on top and be relevant in High end. And this smells bad when you said you now will put more strain into offer the best money can get for High end Gears for PC's. This smells as the swan's song for EVGA.  In short... Not sure we will see EVGA the way they was anymore. They could close the door and disepair. Or be sold to weirdos/well known brand that will destroy it.

[Vasudev]

22 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Possibly worth noting, I hold first place for 3DMark 11 running 13900K + 6900 XT and there are only three submissions to UL. Whether or not that is an indication of others running into issues with Windows 7 and Alder Lake + 6900 XT is nothing more than a wild guess, but only three submissions is pretty freaking weird. I'm confident I would see another 2,000 points on Windows 7 due to a massive increase in physics and combined scores. My cynical self believes that this is by design to prevent Windows 7 from exposing what botched up messes Windows 10/11 are.

 

All three of these are Windows 11...

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/15658326/3dm11/15631505/3dm11/15323702#

 

Does enabling HAGS in Win 10/11 improve the score when paired with Game Mode?

[Vasudev]

22 hours ago, Papusan said:

Nvidia will determine their prices out from what they think gain themself (greed). Would you reduce prices if you wasn't forced to do so? What was the reason for this? Because they thought the prices was too high?🙂

 

NVIDIA RTX 4090 FE Receives a 7% Price Drop in Europe Since Launch, 4080

By Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 03/15/2023 07:03 PM

According to Cowcotland, NVIDIA has recently reduced the price of their flagship RTX 4090 Founders Edition (FE) GPU by INR 3,509, bringing it down from INR 163,077 to INR 159,568. The card was initially listed for INR 170,972 in the European Union. 

Read more

 

I see. 

 

Regarding support for graphics cards... No one is interested in older cards even if they still have driver support. Only new will provide profits. I just sit and wait for the kill-switch for Turing and Ampere.

 

 

I stopped using MSI AB and RTSS long time ago and switched to Nvidia Frameview(Dx10,11,12) and Amd OCAT(Vulkan and dx9). MSI AB developer barely listen and use readymade script to uninstall beta RTSS/MSI AB or even complete uninstall while I had completely clean installed windows w/o restoring profiles.

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Maybe buy 4 so you have a better chance than he here....

 

 

 

 

Only one way to find out. 🙂

 

Starting to realize my MSI 3120 boost and 2835 out the box is an upper tier chip though which is nice. In the end, they all game awesomely even ones that barely boost to 2700. They are monster cards.

 

Even +1600 mem is on the right side of the bell curve.