*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[electrosoft]

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I really can't complain about the memory on my 3090 KPE. I can run +1600 in benches and +1500 for extended gaming sessions. That is definitely better than average in that product generation.

 

I find myself wondering if the goofballs at MSI think they can get away with slightly lower silicon quality on the liquid cooled model due to lower temperatures compared to the Suprim X air cooled. They're selling them for roughly the same price with the air cooled version usually just a few bucks more. What I mean by that is after they are built the water cooling goes on the worse samples of the batch. There is somewhat of a bit of logic to that thought, but it should not be applied to a halo product. That would be something that an end user would do to extract a few more megahertz boost clock, not something that an OEM should be doing to help offset or compensate for a lower bin quality.

 

Your memory OC on your KPE 3090 was definitely better than mine for sure.

 

As for MSI, if I was just basing it on my Newegg one, I would have no problems calling it a decent sample that is hanging with all the other models memory OC wise and actually GPU clocking higher than the ones on that list I posted....

 

.....then we get the best buy one that was atrocious. If I had purchased that one first, it would have went right back just on the jet engine coil whine alone. The terrible memory and GPU overclocking was the icing on the cake.

 

Without the companies properly binning based on more expensive models sometimes (or doing it poorly), silicon lottery is grossly in play.

 

TT stock vs OC samples:

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

Predictability becomes more elusive with a sucky, half-assed OS like Windoze 10 or Winduhz 11. As soon as it starts doing its own thing, it is anyone's guess how that is going to turn out.

[ryan]

haha paps.....thats too funny, I always love your guys comments, cheers me up. I honestly think in 2 years it will be all dumbified

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, ryan said:

haha paps.....thats too funny, I always love your guys comments, cheers me up. I honestly think in 2 years it will be all dumbified

🤗🤗🤗

 

Geforce RTX 4090 VRM PCB water block list. Avoid Colorful for now if you want a custom WB. And nothing here for GALAX.

 

They have restrict rules.... Don't change thermal paste if you intend or need return it for repair within warranty perod. Be sure you use their own paste if you are able to find it. Nice warranty for a graphics card that cost +2500$

[Mr. Fox]

45 minutes ago, Papusan said:

🤗🤗🤗

 

Geforce RTX 4090 VRM PCB water block list. Avoid Colorful for now if you want a custom WB. And nothing here for GALAX.

 

They have restrict rules.... Don't change thermal paste if you intend or need return it for repair within warranty perod. Be sure you use their own paste. Nice warranty for a card that cost +2500$

It seems their rules are as ugly and disgusting as their stupid-looking GPUs.

[ryan]

ok now this really is vomit inducing.

 

I say we get our pickforks and storm the headquarters. I want a revolution, bring back mxm and proper overclocking you

know. In all honesty what can we do that will make even the slightest impact, I think NBT members should start a joint channel and promote something positive for the end user. If we don't stand for something, we will fall for anything

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

It seems their rules are as ugly and disgusting as their stupid-looking GPUs.

This is ugly and disgusting as well. From the EVGA forum. People buy legacy 980Ti  K|ngp|n cards and find the same as me.... nvidia screwed up. Better later than never I expect.  Could you please ask in the thread if some EVGA mods/reps have tried to force Nvidia to fix their disgusting screw up in their latest drivers? Because even EVGA washing their hands.  Link here.... https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3587910

 

 

If Nvidia can do this without people notice it/don't bother.... Be you sure Pascal, Turing, Ampere will be next on the list. Then 4000 series. As long there is an option for limited voltage control for modern Nvidia graphics cards.... It will be a goner. Because Nvidia don't really want it.

[Mr. Fox]

46 minutes ago, Papusan said:

This is disgusting as well. From the EVGA forum. People buy legacy 980Ti  K|ngp|n cards and find the same as me.... nvidia screwed up. Better later than never I expect.  Could you please ask in the thread if some EVGA mods/reps have tried to force Nvidia to fix their disgusting screw up in their latest drivers? Because even EVGA washing their hands.  Link here.... https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3587910

 

 

If Nvidia can do this without people notice it/don't bother.... Be you sure Pascal, Turing, Ampere will be next on the list. Then 4000 series. As long there is an option for limited voltage control for modern Nvidia graphics cards.... It will be a goner. Because Nvidia don't really want it.

I replied, but it appears tags do not work.

 

https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3596294

[Etern4l]

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

He is not the one making things up. I do not know whose idea it was to start referring to it as ASIC quality. It is/was a real thing that some people cared about. Not remarkably different conceptually than an Asus ROG SP rating 

 

No he is just repeating the term without fully understanding it, as 99% of people would, but PCMag for example got it right - an interesting aspect of our background social vs established media topic :) I have a bit of EEng background, so can just about tell the difference. It's not a horrendous mistake, such as for example calling GPUs FPGAs. 

 

The key question is who first coined the term. I imagine it was some coder (GPU-Z?) with relatively little HW background, or perhaps someone, who like myself is a big fan of ASICS, the shoes lol. Then the world of gaming picked it up. 

 

It's also more than likely that the very first GPUs were ASICs and the term became sticky. 

 

9 hours ago, Papusan said:

All is from EVGA's own page for their top tier graphics card. See the link I posted above. I put it here....

 

 

I have two older GTX 480. One with Asic at below 60% and one above 86%. The lower binned card is awful for oc'ing and run damn hot (FERMY was known for running HOT so High ASIC score was very needed). And if you didn't clean up you almost saw smoke coming from that card, LOOL

Exactly. And I'm sure Nvidia still have tools and could offer the SDK to the GPU-Z author.

 

Probably something very historical which existed in the community for a long time before and EVGA just went with the flow there. I don't imagine they have top engineers running marketing. 

[ryan]

you knew what i was talking about. thats the important part of communication....understanding. but thanks for the crash course. learn something new each day.

 

 

 

I'd like to argue also lol.

 

When a word is not a recognized word it is incorrect. but when enough people use the word and its widely understood it becomes a correct word.

 

ASIC quality by millions is understood to be the quality of the gpu chip and many experts and laymen alike know. they refer to the same thing with the same meaning. when someone comes along and tells millions its the wrong word or term. who really is right. clearly the millions that refer to asic quality on gpus as being the quality of the silicon much like sp on a cpu. so yeah just a little blurb(prob not a word but it will eventually be one lol)

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, ryan said:

you knew what i was talking about. thats the important part of communication....understanding. but thanks for the crash course. learn something new each day.

 

 

 

I'd like to argue also lol.

 

When a word is not a recognized word it is incorrect. but when enough people use the word and its widely understood it becomes a correct word.

 

ASIC quality by millions is understood to be the quality of the gpu chip and many experts and laymen alike know. they refer to the same thing with the same meaning. when someone comes along and tells millions its the wrong word or term. who really is right. clearly the millions that refer to asic quality on gpus as being the quality of the silicon much like sp on a cpu. so yeah just a little blurb(prob not a word but it will eventually be one lol)

W1zzard is the author of GPU-Z. ASIC___QUALITY

 

 

9 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Probably something very historical which existed in the community for a long time before and EVGA just went with the flow there. I don't imagine they have top engineers running marketing. 

 

The markething team usally get their info from their engineers. 

[ryan]

jesus. I had no idea. it looks like asic quality is king, if you care about overclocking

[Mr. Fox]

38 minutes ago, ryan said:

jesus. I had no idea. it looks like asic quality is king, if you care about overclocking

That's why the Green Goblin blocks access to it now and it is not reported. It made it easier than they wanted it to be to identify how many GPUs were built with crappy silicon samples.

 

After all, it's none of our business whether or not we got our money's worth, or got screwed. Our job is to shut up and keep spending money.

[Etern4l]

3 hours ago, ryan said:

you knew what i was talking about. thats the important part of communication....understanding. but thanks for the crash course. learn something new each day.

 

 

 

I'd like to argue also lol.

 

When a word is not a recognized word it is incorrect. but when enough people use the word and its widely understood it becomes a correct word.

 

ASIC quality by millions is understood to be the quality of the gpu chip and many experts and laymen alike know. they refer to the same thing with the same meaning. when someone comes along and tells millions its the wrong word or term. who really is right. clearly the millions that refer to asic quality on gpus as being the quality of the silicon much like sp on a cpu. so yeah just a little blurb(prob not a word but it will eventually be one lol)

 

What you're essentially saying is that if a sufficient mass of people in their millions repeat something, it becomes the the truth. "Flat Earth! Flat Earth!" :) It doesn't matter what the millions say, it matters what the ones (sometimes very few) who know what they are talking about say. I haven't seen any expert quotes here (Jay is a very nice guy, but clearly not an IC domain expert). Here is one from a dude who's read the all the books and the Internet (OK probably not but close enough):

 

E: Is GPU an ASIC?

CGPT: No, a GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) is not an ASIC (Application-Specific Integrated Circuit). A GPU is designed for general-purpose computing and is capable of executing a wide range of tasks, including rendering graphics, video processing, and running simulations. An ASIC, on the other hand, is a type of integrated circuit that is specifically designed for a single task, such as mining cryptocurrency.

 

Not the most in-depth explanation, but the dude got the gist of it. Anyhow, having delivered the message and a few back and forths, I believe I've exhausted the ASIC topic here... It's been quite some time since I studied this stuff, probably getting everything the other way around now ;)

[Mr. Fox]

40 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

What you're essentially saying is that if a sufficient mass of people in their millions repeat something, it becomes the the truth. "Flat Earth! Flat Earth!" 🙂 It doesn't matter what the millions say, it matters what the ones (sometimes very few) who know what they are talking about say. I haven't seen any expert quotes here (Jay is a very nice guy, but clearly not an IC domain expert). Here is one from a dude who's read the all the books and the Internet (OK probably not but close enough):

 

E: Is GPU an ASIC?

CGPT: No, a GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) is not an ASIC (Application-Specific Integrated Circuit). A GPU is designed for general-purpose computing and is capable of executing a wide range of tasks, including rendering graphics, video processing, and running simulations. An ASIC, on the other hand, is a type of integrated circuit that is specifically designed for a single task, such as mining cryptocurrency.

 

Not the most in-depth explanation, but the dude got the gist of it. Anyhow, having delivered the message and a few back and forths, I believe I've exhausted the ASIC topic here... It's been quite some time since I studied this stuff, probably getting everything the other way around now 😉

I totally agree that something that is repeated often and becomes a widespread belief does not make it true or accurate. In fact, we have more examples of that today than we can count, and more nonsense gets added to the list daily. If a scientist is a believer in nonsense, then it automatically gets validated as "science" LOL. And, anyone who doesn't drink the Kool-Aid is not following the science (how dare they question a scientist?) and should not be listened to.

 

What we do not know is if W1zzard chose ASIC as an acronym based on another sequence of words that has since taken on a different (or additional) meaning. If I had to guess, that seems plausible. When GPU ASIC scores were all the rage, I do not believe that ASIC devices were even a thing like they are today. I know cryptomining was not common and it became popular long after GPU-Z had ASIC scores. So, it may be a situation like what came first... the chicken or the egg? Who first used the acronym ASIC? I have no idea.

 

It is not uncommon for an acronym to be used in multiple ways that have unrelated meanings. Their meaning is determined in the context of where they are being used. I am not sure what the acronym stood for in the way it was used by W1zzard but it probably was not an "application-specific integrated circuit" judging based upon the context it was utilized for measuring silicon quality. At the time it was gaining popularity, nobody really cared what it stood for, they only cared what their GPU ASIC score was.

 

Examples: https://qr.ae/pGiM53

Quote

AP = access point, Asia-Pacific, accounts payable
ASP = application service provider, average selling price
CMO = chief marketing officer, contract marketing organization
DBA = database administrator, doing business as
DM = data mining, direct message
EA = East Asia, Electronic Arts
ESD = electrostatic discharge, electronic software distribution
GM = general manager, golden master, General Motors
HD = hard drive, high-definition
IE = information extraction, Microsoft Internet Explorer
IM = instant messaging, Internet marketing, input method
IP = intellectual property, Internet Protocol
IR = information retrieval, investor relations, infrared
KB = kilobyte, knowledge base
MS = manuscript, Master of Science, multiple sclerosis, Microsoft
MVP = Most Valuable Player/Professional, minimum viable product
NCR = numeric character reference, National Cash Register
NEA = National Endowment for the Arts, National Education Association
NIH = not invented here, National Institutes of Health
NPS = Net Promoter Score, U.S. National Park Service
PM = project manager, program manager, product manager, preventive maintenance
PMP = portable media player, Project Management Professional
PO = purchase order, portable object
POS = point of sale, part of speech
PR = public relations, Google PageRank
PS = postscript, PostScript, professional services
PV = page view, present value
QA = quality assurance, question answering
SCM = supply chain management, software configuration management
SD = standard definition, Secure Digital
SI = system integrator, Système international d'unités (metric system)
SL = source language, Second Life
SLA = service level agreement, second language acquisition
SM = service mark, social media
SME = subject matter expert, small and medium enterprise
SNA = social network analysis, Systems Network Architecture
SOC = Standard Occupational Classification, system on chip
TC = technical communication, text categorization, Traditional Chinese
TDD = telecommunications device for the deaf, test-driven development
TM = trademark, text mining, translation memory
VM = virtual machine, virtual memory
VOC = volatile organic compound, voice of the customer

 

[Papusan]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

What we do not know is if W1zzard chose ASIC as an acronym based on another sequence of words that has since taken on a different meaning. When GPU ASIC scores were all the rage, I do not believe that ASICs were even a thing. I know cryptomining was not. So, it may be a situation like what came first... the chicken or the egg? Who first use the acronym ASIC? I have no idea.

https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/crypto-mining-rig-bitcoin-mining-calculator-asic-miner

Short for application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC), ASIC miners are designed to do one thing and one thing only — mine cryptocurrency. The first ASIC miner was released in 2012, and was about 200 times more powerful than the standard GPU miners of the time.

 

 

The latest GPU-Z 0.5.8 includes a new feature that displays the quality of the GPU (ASIC quality) of recent graphics cards (GeForce GTX 400, GTX 500 and Radeon HD 7800, HD 7900 series). 2012.01.22

 

What you prefer... The chicken or the egg?😁

[Mr. Fox]

4 minutes ago, Papusan said:

https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/crypto-mining-rig-bitcoin-mining-calculator-asic-miner

Short for application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC), ASIC miners are designed to do one thing and one thing only — mine cryptocurrency. The first ASIC miner was released in 2012, and was about 200 times more powerful than the standard GPU miners of the time.

 

 

The latest GPU-Z 0.5.8 includes a new feature that displays the quality of the GPU (ASIC quality) of recent graphics cards (GeForce GTX 400, GTX 500 and Radeon HD 7800, HD 7900 series). 2012.01.22

 

What you prefer... The chicken or the egg?😁

In that context it almost makes sense. If someone bought a GPU in 2012 for nothing more than cryptomining, regardless of what it was made for by AMD or NVIDIA, it was being used in the role of an "ASIC device" by that person, and I do not think (haven't tried to figure out because I don't actually care) that ASIC mining devices were invented at that point.

[Mr. Fox]

I really like this guy's dry, sarcastic and corny sense of humor.

Frankenstein PC - Harvesting best parts from older Computers

Did I spend $20 on e-Waste?!

 

[Papusan]

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

I really like this guy's dry, sarcastic and corny sense of humor.

Frankenstein PC - Harvesting best parts from older Computers

Did I spend $20 on e-Waste?!

 

Yep, I sub on this channel. He need more subs. His voice and style is fantastic🙂 

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I totally agree that something that is repeated often and becomes a widespread belief does not make it true or accurate. In fact, we have more examples of that today than we can count, and more nonsense gets added to the list daily. If a scientist is a believer in nonsense, then it automatically gets validated as "science" LOL. And, anyone who doesn't drink the Kool-Aid is not following the science (how dare they question a scientist?) and should not be listened to.

 

What we do not know is if W1zzard chose ASIC as an acronym based on another sequence of words that has since taken on a different (or additional) meaning. If I had to guess, that seems plausible. When GPU ASIC scores were all the rage, I do not believe that ASIC devices were even a thing like they are today. I know cryptomining was not common and it became popular long after GPU-Z had ASIC scores. So, it may be a situation like what came first... the chicken or the egg? Who first used the acronym ASIC? I have no idea.

 

It is not uncommon for an acronym to be used in multiple ways that have unrelated meanings. Their meaning is determined in the context of where they are being used. I am not sure what the acronym stood for in the way it was used by W1zzard but it probably was not an "application-specific integrated circuit" judging based upon the context it was utilized for measuring silicon quality. At the time it was gaining popularity, nobody really cared what it stood for, they only cared what their GPU ASIC score was.

 

Examples: https://qr.ae/pGiM53

 

 

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/crypto-mining-rig-bitcoin-mining-calculator-asic-miner

Short for application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC), ASIC miners are designed to do one thing and one thing only — mine cryptocurrency. The first ASIC miner was released in 2012, and was about 200 times more powerful than the standard GPU miners of the time.

 

 

The latest GPU-Z 0.5.8 includes a new feature that displays the quality of the GPU (ASIC quality) of recent graphics cards (GeForce GTX 400, GTX 500 and Radeon HD 7800, HD 7900 series). 2012.01.22

 

What you prefer... The chicken or the egg?😁

 

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

In that context it almost makes sense. If someone bought a GPU in 2012 for nothing more than cryptomining, regardless of what it was made for by AMD or NVIDIA, it was being used in the role of an "ASIC device" by that person, and I do not think (haven't tried to figure out because I don't actually care) that ASIC mining devices were invented at that point.

 

The term ASIC was coined in the 1980s, I became familiar with it a decade later.

Literally all it means guys is that the (AS)IC is custom designed for a specific task, rather than being a standard/general-purpose IC available off the shelf from semiconductor manufacturers. 

In the past there was much more need for ASICs, because CPUs were so slow and there was no GP GPU computing, but even today, there are applications such that the investment in a development of an ASIC instead of using CPUs, GPUs, standard microcontrollers etc. is justified, usually from the performance perspective.

Crypto miners are a somewhat misleading example, although so popular both ChatGPT and bro @Papusan brought it up first, in that it might suggest that ASICs are a recent invention. They are not, and there are lots of modern and historical applications including AI, military, telecoms etc.

 

Once the above is clear, it follows that the use of the term "ASIC quality" referencing modern compute-capable GPUs (CUDA was released in 2006 BTW) is basically nonsensical.

1. The term refers to a design type, rather than a specific type of underlying semiconductor technology and its properties.

2. Modern GPUs are general-purpose off-the-shelf computational ICs rather than ASICs.

HTH.

[ryan]

? ? ?

 

like literally the whole world applies it to silicon quality?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=asic+quality&rlz=1C1ONGR_enCA1037CA1037&oq=asic+quality&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60j69i61.13378058j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Mr. Fox]

5 minutes ago, ryan said:

? ? ?

 

like literally the whole world applies it to silicon quality?

It depends on the context of the conversation and the audience you are speaking to. To performance PC enthusiasts and gamers that are curious if their GPU is a winner or loser in the silicon lotter, yes, it is used in reference to that. When used in reference to microprocessor technology in general, for the most part it is agnostic to silicon quality and focused on design intent. 

 

https://www.abbreviationfinder.org/acronyms/asic.html#aim

ASIC	Afghanistan Standard Industrial Classification
ASIC	Air and Space Interoperability Council
ASIC	All Source Intelligence Center
ASIC	All-Source Information Center
ASIC	American Society of Irrigation Consultants
ASIC	Application-Specific Integrated Circuit
ASIC	Area Security Information Center
ASIC	Asociacion Salvadorena de la Industria de la Confeccion
ASIC	Association Scientifique Internationale du Cafe
ASIC	Association Suisse des Ingenieurs-Conseils
ASIC	Attache des Systemes d'Information et de Communication
ASIC	Australian Seafood Industry Council
ASIC	Australian Securities and Investments Commission
ASIC	Automatic Sprinkler Inspection Company
ASIC	Aviation Security Identification Card
ASIC	Avionics Subsystem Interface Contractor

 

[Etern4l]

20 minutes ago, ryan said:

? ? ?

 

like literally the whole world applies it to silicon quality?

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=asic+quality&rlz=1C1ONGR_enCA1037CA1037&oq=asic+quality&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60j69i61.13378058j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Looks like all those links are just in fact referring to "GPU ASIC quality" misnomer, as coined by the GPU-Z author. This could be because the links have been targeted to yourself as the intended audience.

 

Again, the new AI kid on the block beats Google's effort soundly (it does no tagetting beyond the session scope):

 

ASIC quality refers to the level of design and manufacturing processes used to produce an Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC). In general, ASIC quality is assessed based on various factors such as design complexity, performance, reliability, power consumption, and manufacturing processes. Higher ASIC quality typically means better performance, lower power consumption, and greater reliability compared to lower-quality ASICs. The term "ASIC quality" is used to differentiate between different levels of ASIC design and manufacturing capabilities, and to help ensure that ASICs are suitable for their intended applications.

 

Makes sense to me, and is consistent with what I wrote in the previous post (on my own lol).

[Mr. Fox]

8 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

ASIC quality refers to the level of design and manufacturing processes used to produce an Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC). In general, ASIC quality is assessed based on various factors such as design complexity, performance, reliability, power consumption, and manufacturing processes. Higher ASIC quality typically means better performance, lower power consumption, and greater reliability compared to lower-quality ASICs. The term "ASIC quality" is used to differentiate between different levels of ASIC design and manufacturing capabilities, and to help ensure that ASICs are suitable for their intended applications.

 

Makes sense to me, and is consistent with what I wrote in the previous post.

That definition actually seems to validate the logic in the relative use of the term as it relates to suitability for overclocking. While it may not have been the intended purpose of the manufacturer of the GPU, it might be the intended purpose of the purchaser.

 

It could have been called anything, really. It could have been called the "Crapification Factor" or "GPU Trash Rating" LOL. In both of these cases, a lower score would be better than a higher score.

[Etern4l]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

That definition actually seems to validate the logic in the relative use of the term as it relates to suitability for overclocking. While it may not have been the intended purpose of the manufacturer of the GPU, it might be the intended purpose of the purchaser.

 

A huge stretch. That statement is referring to comparison between different implementations/designs/manufacturing processes. For instance, you could have a cryptominer ASIC designed using different components or implemented using  different fabrication processes etc. In the context of "GPU-Z 'ASIC' Quality", we are talking about comparing effectively fairly minute differences in quality between otherwise identical ICs due to the binning process which are all within specification tolerance, and again: GPUs are not ASICs in the first place so that really precludes "ASIC quality" from being applicable. That is just the key confusion here.