*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Etern4l]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Bench-friendly ambient temperatures. Remember, @Papusanis The Snowman.

 

Currently in that part of the world... fresh, moist air

 

Haha, had the same thought but looked at Trondheim, it was -4C last night. I'm not sure that would have done it. Bro @Papusan  is pulling a fast LN2 one on us here :) I mean these scores, voltages and temps without delidding have only one major explanation, unless I'm missing something. 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

Nice bro. Max core temp 77C at 1.4V... Hmm, how, other than LN?

Asus board has the diesense reading so the voltage you see is socket sense which is much higher. Load voltage is closer to 1.350v. 
 

And if you see voltage reading at +1.52v on a few screenshots it doesn’t necessarily mean you run voltage at that level 🙂
 

Then you have what priority you run the benchmark at. Above normal task priority in task manager the reading of temps and other values will be different/skewed so they won’t be 100% correct. 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

personally i don't get the point in deleding then slapping IHS back on instead of direct die application.

 

13 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Apply one tiny drop under each IHS wing

in the past i used this Permatex 22072 Ultra Black Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker, small drop in each corner same as Mr. Fox advice. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HBIBOY

 

all laptop these days use direct die for additional 20c savings over having an IHS, the main reason people placed the IHS back on is to compensate for the height, today there are plates specifically for that, click the video below to see a bench with one of these applied to a recent desktop 13900 cpu.

 

[Etern4l]

16 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Asus board has the diesense reading so the voltage you see is socket sense which is much higher. Load voltage is closer to 1.359v. 
 

And if you see voltage reading at +1.52v on a few screenshots it doesn’t necessarily mean you run voltage at that level 🙂
 

Then you have priority. Above normal priority in task manager the reading of temps and other values will be different/squwed. 

 

Got it, just a bucket of Norwegian snow somehow pushed into the loop then ;)

 

10 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

personally i don't get the point in deleding then slapping IHS back on instead of direct die application.

 

in the past i used this Permatex 22072 Ultra Black Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker, small drop in each corner same as Mr. Fox advice. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HBIBOY

 

Yeah, I saw that one being advised, but given that I'm not making a gasket here (quite the opposite?), I went with the red Weld Silicone RTV sealant variant (but now will probably just use the Super Glue Gel as recommended by Rockit and @Mr. Fox). Also the "4 drops in the corners" advice is different to what @Mr. Fox is suggesting, which is just 2 little drops under the wings which makes sense to me. I'm wouldn't be relidding for resale, so would just want a minimal, easy to remove bond.

[Papusan]

7 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Got it, just a bucket of Norwegian snow somehow pushed into the loop then 😉

 

 

Yeah, I saw that one being advised, but given that I'm not making a gasket here (quite the opposite?), I went with the red Weld Silicone RTV sealant variant (but now will probably just use the Super Glue Gel as recommended by Rockit and @Mr. Fox). Also the "4 drops in the corners" advice is different to what @Mr. Fox is suggesting, which is just 2 little drops under the wings which makes sense to me. I'm wouldn't be relidding for resale, so would just want a minimal, easy to remove bond.

Never assume all boards have exactly same readout of voltage. And as I said the +1.52v you see from some CPU-Z screenshots isn’t the voltage they run at 🙂

 

Same also for Jokebooks. Mostly VID is showed and not real core voltage. What you see is what you think it is 🙂 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Never assume all boards have exactly same readout of voltage. And as I said the +1.52v you see from some CPU-Z screenshots isn’t the voltage they run at 🙂

 

Same also for Jokebooks. Mostly VID is showed and not real core voltage. What you see is what you think it is 🙂 

 

Yeah, yeah. You know what they say: trust, but verify. Since we can't verify (no video of the achievement yet I guess?), you are on the unfair overclocking watchlist bro ;)

 

BTW Not sure if this is connected to the recent sickening turmoil at Intel, sad news either way:

Gordon Moore, Intel co-founder and creator of Moore's Law, dies aged 94

[Raiderman]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Bench-friendly ambient temperatures. Remember, @Papusanis The Snowman.

 

Currently in that part of the world... fresh, moist air

I will be losing all the prime benching weather soon. Brother @Papusan(The Snowman), I think, has a much longer/larger window for overclocking.

 

[electrosoft]

19 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Nice to see good stock at the recommended level of excessive (non-scalper) overpricing. I just snagged another Suprim (non-Liquid) and it seems like it might be a great silicon sample. Same price as Microcenter, too. Maybe I will break out the portable AC unit this weekend and force feed it some frosty air. It will be easy with this case. I can just drape a blanket over it and the AC unit so the cold air has no other place to go. Between the 6900 XT and the 4090 I should have enough to keep me busy with benching for a long time now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Congrats!

 

Third time's the charm? (fingers crossed)

 

Hopefully this one can make it to a block 🙂

 

@Raiderman 6800xt vs 7900xt so a 7900xtx would get you even a bit more punch:

 

 

 

[electrosoft]

12 hours ago, Rage Set said:

In other news, I hope you guys really consider Framework for your next business or now even gaming laptop needs. They are fighting against Lenovo, HP, Asus and others with laptops that you can really repair/upgrade over time. Many of us talked about having an upgradable laptop, well I am going to put my money where my mouth is. I am likely going to buy one.

 

They are not like the Clevo's of old with MXM graphics and socketed CPUs but they are better than the Apple's and other thin/light laptops out there. What surprised me the most is the community surrounding the laptops. 

 

As if on cue....(I really like what they're trying to do):

 

 

[Etern4l]

Yay, the delid op seems to have worked. Pretty smooth actually, the CPU really needed this - there wasn't even a pop to speak of, although I did heat the IHS up. No visible damage to the PCB or the IHS. Now onto the cleanup. Nurse! 

 

Edit: looking at how well the removal of the silicone residue is going, nurse @Etern4lshould be done by tomorrow evening if he hurries up lol 

[cylix]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

As if on cue....(I really like what they're trying to do):

 

 

Just saw the video aswell. They really try to do something for the laptop world, that GPU module is great, and they are giving it to other AIB to use it. But i dont know if they will use it, it will mean less profit for them. More money in an GPU BGA book for the likes of ASUS, MSI and co.

 

If i ever need a laptop for work that will replace my tablet it will be  a framework one. I love the concept

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I will be losing all the prime benching weather soon. Brother @Papusan(The Snowman), I think, has a much longer/larger window for overclocking.

 

At least you have such a thing during a short window. There is no such thing here. My only option is to resort to this kind of thing.

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Congrats!

 

Third time's the charm? (fingers crossed)

 

Hopefully this one can make it to a block 🙂

I certainly hope so. It is boosting to 3105 on core with cold air (stock MSI vBIOS) and +1600 memory is passing so far. May go higher (haven't tested).

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

@Raiderman 6800xt vs 7900xt so a 7900xtx would get you even a bit more punch:

If that is the budget threshold, spending roughly the same on a 3090 or 3090 Ti would be the better option by every measurement. Performancewise RT ON and RT OFF, features and driver stability the 7900 XT/XTX get left in the dust.

[Rage Set]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

As if on cue....(I really like what they're trying to do):

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, cylix said:

Just saw the video aswell. They really try to do something for the laptop world, that GPU module is great, and they are giving it to other AIB to use it. But i dont know if they will use it, it will mean less profit for them. More money in an GPU BGA book for the likes of ASUS, MSI and co.

 

If i ever need a laptop for work that will replace my tablet it will be  a framework one. I love the concept

 

 

My hope is that they continue to expand on this ideology of open-source computing. No other laptop OEM has opened up their detailed schematics to the public like this before. No other laptop OEM has allowed such reparability. 

 

I was highly interested in the Framework when they first launched, but I was equally skeptical. They have proved they have some staying power and the community around it has exploded. 

 

I am going to buy one of their cheaper DIY models and expand over time. 

[Papusan]

The silicon lottery is real. Have it been this bad as with this new gen nvidia cards the last 4 years or two gen graphics? I talk more about the vram lottery. The so called best binned OC cards being crushed buy vanilla $1600 gamer cards. I really hope Micron soon get some competition in the high end.

 

 

This variance isn't acceptable. You pay extra for OC cards for a reason. And not only for the better cooling. The OC tag means more than fancy cooling and back plate.

[Mr. Fox]

Stock MSI vBIOS. Will move to the Galax HOF soon. Cold air is keeping core max to 40°C and core max to 48°C with max fans and boosting to 3150 (+225) and +1650 memory offset.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/15686404

 

  

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Yay, the delid op seems to have worked. Pretty smooth actually, the CPU really needed this - there wasn't even a pop to speak of, although I did heat the IHS up. No visible damage to the PCB or the IHS. Now onto the cleanup. Nurse! 

 

Edit: looking at how well the removal of the silicone residue is going, nurse @Etern4lshould be done by tomorrow evening if he hurries up lol 

This excites me almost as much as if it were my own experience. Super happy for you. The delid is long overdue. I anticipate your thermal issues will be largely a thing of the past now.

 

Heating up the IHS is probably what allowed you to push off the IHS without damaging/denting the side of it with the push block of the delid tool. I don't heat the IHS. I will try that the next time. How did you warm it up? I have not delidded the 13900KF in my work computer because I don't ever push the CPU overclock hard enough to thermal throttle on that machine. 5.7GHz on P-cores is as high as I have ever pushed it and that is my daily driver clock on the work machine. Maybe I will  try heating it up when I delid that CPU and see if it avoids denting the side of the IHS.

[Mr. Fox]

27 minutes ago, Papusan said:

The silicon lottery is real. Have it been this bad as with this new gen nvidia cards the last 4 years or two gen graphics? I talk more about the vram lottery. The so called best binned OC cards being crushed buy vanilla $1600 gamer cards. I really hope Micron soon get some competition in the high end.

 

 

This variance isn't acceptable. You pay extra for OC cards for a reason. And not only for the better cooling. The OC tag means more than fancy cooling.

It is totally unacceptable. The GPU manufacturers are using whatever parts come to them and letting the people that buy them figure out if they got sold a piece of garbage. If that's how they are going to roll, the price should be half what they currently sell for. Consumer dishonestly has always been a problem. Even during good times without a lot of trash tech floating around. The behavior we see from the hardware OEMs and lack of QC and concern for customer experience fuels dshonesty where it would never otherwise enter a person's mind. The difference now is the OEMs deserve to get screwed back... real hard. Now it is more like consumers returning the favor, tit for tat. I'd almost condone it rather than discourage it at this point, because they're screwing us deliberately. And, you know what they say about payback... bow-wow, doggy-girl.

 

[electrosoft]

42 minutes ago, cylix said:

Just saw the video aswell. They really try to do something for the laptop world, that GPU module is great, and they are giving it to other AIB to use it. But i dont know if they will use it, it will mean less profit for them. More money in an GPU BGA book for the likes of ASUS, MSI and co.

 

If i ever need a laptop for work that will replace my tablet it will be  a framework one. I love the concept

 

27 minutes ago, Rage Set said:

 

 

 

My hope is that they continue to expand on this ideology of open-source computing. No other laptop OEM has opened up their detailed schematics to the public like this before. No other laptop OEM has allowed such reparability. 

 

I was highly interested in the Framework when they first launched, but I was equally skeptical. They have proved they have some staying power and the community around it has exploded. 

 

I am going to buy one of their cheaper DIY models and expand over time. 

 

I'm really interested in their 16" model with the GPU module. I might pick one of those up when they come to market and what specs. I don't need overkill.

 

11 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Stock MSI vBIOS. Will move to the Galax HOF soon. Cold air is keeping core max to 40°C and core max to 48°C with max fans and boosting to 3150 (+225) and +1650 memory offset.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/15686404

 

  

This excites me almost as much as if it were my own experience. Super happy for you. The delid is long overdue. I anticipate your thermal issues will be largely a thing of the past now.

 

.

 

So glad third time was the charm! It is better than your first and this is three Suprims (mine, yours x 2) that have been very good specimens.

 

Can't wait till you block it and bring the thunder brother. 🙂

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

20 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

So glad third time was the charm! It is better than your first and this is three Suprims (mine, yours x 2) that have been very good specimens.

 

Can't wait till you block it and bring the thunder brother. 🙂

Thank you. It comes as a relief to me, too. (That is kind of a "Captian Obvious" comment on my part, LOL.)

 

I hope it doesn't just mysteriously die like the other one did. Two good ones in a row for me, but this one is a little better. I think the liquid cooler tend to do something to hold back the Liquid X because all of the online reviews show the non-Liquid generally edging out the Liquid version by a tiny margin. They are exactly the same GPU with a different cooler. Maybe MSI is putting the better ones on air and the lesser binned ones on water to help level the playing field. I haven't heard any coil whine yet.

 

The heat this air cooled monster puts out is just ungodly. It definitely needs a block to help contain that.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5235384_

 

Pre-benchmark starting temperatures...

I was getting about 5K more than this on Fire Strike with the Galax HOF vBIOS, so I will be going there again soon. Running these now as a point of reference to confirm improvement later after cross-flashing.

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Stock MSI vBIOS. Will move to the Galax HOF soon. Cold air is keeping core max to 40°C and core max to 48°C with max fans and boosting to 3150 (+225) and +1650 memory offset.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/15686404

 

  

This excites me almost as much as if it were my own experience. Super happy for you. The delid is long overdue. I anticipate your thermal issues will be largely a thing of the past now.

 

Heating up the IHS is probably what allowed you to push off the IHS without damaging/denting the side of it with the push block of the delid tool. I don't heat the IHS. I will try that the next time. How did you warm it up? I have not delidded the 13900KF in my work computer because I don't ever push the CPU overclock hard enough to thermal throttle on that machine. 5.7GHz on P-cores is as high as I have ever pushed it and that is my daily driver clock on the work machine. Maybe I will  try heating it up when I delid that CPU and see if it avoids denting the side of the IHS.

 

Well, it's fair to say you are the spiritual father of this project! Glad this seems to have worked so far, so we can share an excitement rather than aggravation lol 

 

I used a heat gun set to 150C and fired at close range through the window for about a minute, then tightened the screw until resistance intensified uncomfortably (I guess the solder was cooling down and setting), then repeated. I removed the top cover a few times to assess the situation, and in the hope I can get the IHS off already. No joy, had to keep going until the pusher was all the way in, basically the solder got smeared off the die. I will post some pics when the dust settles. 

 

BTW special "thanks" to Intel for placing 3 caps < 0.5mm off the bottom edge of the IHS. One tiny wrong move and those might have gotten decapitated. Took me like half an hour to get the silicone off that area. Will require extra care during relidding. 

 

 

[Tenoroon]

1 hour ago, Rage Set said:

I am going to buy one of their cheaper DIY models and expand over time. 

I plan on doing the same, I see a lot of potential with their strategy; now we must wait for it to snowball...

 

8 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

BTW special "thanks" to Intel for placing 3 caps < 0.5mm off the bottom edge of the IHS. One tiny wrong move and those might have gotten decapitated.

hehehehehehe. I'm glad the process went well!

 

 

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thank you. It comes as a relief to me, too. (That is kind of a "Captian Obvious" comment on my part, LOL.)

 

I hope it doesn't just mysteriously die like the other one did. Two good ones in a row for me, but this one is a little better. I think the liquid cooler tend to do something to hold back the Liquid X because all of the online reviews show the non-Liquid generally edging out the Liquid version by a tiny margin. They are exactly the same GPU with a different cooler. Maybe MSI is putting the better ones on air and the lesser binned ones on water to help level the playing field. I haven't heard any coil whine yet.

 

The heat this air cooled monster puts out is just ungodly. It definitely needs a block to help contain that.

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5235384_

 

Pre-benchmark starting temperatures...

 

I know that Best Buy Liquid I tested was garbage along with the one @Papusan quoted which was air based. Reading through threads on various forums, one truth is if you don't care about OC or boost clocks all 4090s are monster cards. On the other hand, if you want a good out of box boost and/or OC on GPU/mem, the variance is pretty staggering.

 

I spent a bit looking around and I only found the rare 4090 that would boost out of box ambient to 2835+ and 3135 OC'd like mine and will sit there at 3120 gaming no problem on stock MSI vBIOS. I know +1700 on my memory on mine is upper end but then again  there are those rare gems that hit +2000 right out of the box no problem.

 

One thing I never did try was letting the memory get warm and scale real time to see if that added a bit of headroom on the memory.

 

It really does come down to the luck of the draw as your Strix showed you on a $2000 GPU. That is inexcusable jacking up the price ~$400 over baseline MSRP for random picks from the hat.

 

I'm just glad you got a good sample that should primed and ready for HOF vBIOS and some chilled block action to really push it up and beyond chilled air. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

On 3/24/2023 at 6:01 AM, Papusan said:

Asus closed down their forum for over a month for this new disaster. 
 

Yep, Asus just follow Microsoft. All is about phones and tablet nowadays.... 

Whats wrong with people nowadays? It seems all is grown up with smartphones and small tiny tablets.  

 

"Flere unge kan ikke lenger bruke en vanlig datamaskin" Direct translated into English below....

 

Several young people can no longer use a normal computer (behind paywall)

https://www.aftenbladet.no/lokalt/i/OrWanO/flere-unge-kan-ikke-lenger-bruke-en-vanlig-datamaskin-holder-ikke-med-et-kurs

 

There you have it bro @Mr. Fox Please can you tell me how a PC looks like? More like this? Maybe I'm too old to understand all these changes. Yep, definitely.

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Whats wrong with people nowadays? It seems all is grown up with smartphones and small tiny tablets.  

 

"Flere unge kan ikke lenger bruke en vanlig datamaskin" Direct translated into English below....

 

Several young people can no longer use a normal computer (behind paywall)

https://www.aftenbladet.no/lokalt/i/OrWanO/flere-unge-kan-ikke-lenger-bruke-en-vanlig-datamaskin-holder-ikke-med-et-kurs

 

There you have it bro @Mr. Fox Please can you tell me how a PC looks like? More like this? Maybe I'm too old to understand all these changes. Yep, definitely.

 

It still does not answer the question of why ROG Community--a product line that is supposed to be for enthusiasts--is catering to smartphone dumbphone jockeys and tablet craplet dummies. This says several things about ASUS that are not very good. Their focus has been lost. They should not give a rat's butt what the kiddos want. They should cater to the people and products the ROG brand markets to and tell the people that want to troll their forum on a phone to grow up and stop expecting everyone to pander to their childish whims.

 

But wait... LOL... there are ROG smartphone dumbphones now. This is no shortage of filth for stupid people.

 

Where is my barf bucket?

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

 

But wait... LOL... there are ROG smartphone dumbphones now. This is no shortage of filth for stupid people.

 

Where is my barf bucket?

Asus cater to different all types people nowadays. I forgot it bro. Sorry. I see you need it😎

 

[Etern4l]

A roaring success @Mr. Fox. Approx. 20C temp reduction on first installation with PTM7950 on the die, and TF7 on the heatsink (prob my worst paste, just to put something on for the initial calibration). I haven't even validated the heatsink alignment. Of course, this vs rather poor initial state, but still.

 

Many thanks for advising this somewhat radical approach! Granted a few things could have gone wrong, but didn't:

 

* Rockit Cool sent me the kit straight away

* Most importantly, the delid worked (almost) perfectly - I say almost, because witih careful examination there is an ever so slight bend on the left wing (the one making contact with the pusher). By my eye it's less than 0.1mm, probably much less, it's barely visible, so I'm considering it immaterial, and would be very easy to lap off if needed

* Cleanup was the most consuming part, both the silicone sealant removal and desoldering

BTW don't know why Rockit call solder "sodder" in their instructions - doesn't have a nice ring to it in British English :D, but I guess that's appropriate given how annoying the "sodder" is to remove lol

* PTM7950 was about as annoying to apply as usual, meaning I'd much rather use the paste, but the relidding tool worked perfectly. The copper IHS landed well clear of all the caps at the bottom and left side of the IHS, and fits the Thermaltake frame well.  Screwing the contact frame on was a little bit more difficult, I had some trouble engaging the bottom two screws, but it worked in the end.

 

One thing that bothers me is I didn't have Loclite "Gel Control", and just wanted something very temporary so went with the much cheaper "Power Gel".

 

It's a pretty weak glue in my experience, so my assumption was that there is no risk of this damaging the PCB, and the downside vs using "Gel Control" is that it might just break off very easily. Please advise if there are some known more serious concerns around this. 

 

Given that I'm more than happy with where things are at the moment (my intention is not to exceed 250W of constant power draw on this chip), I will take a moment to check the heatsink alignment and apply what's probably the best traditional paste in my arsenal (Alphacool Apex), and defer further experiments until 7958 paste arrives, as this super-workable as is. At that point I will reopen and  try two things:

* Conductonaut on the original IHS which looks great after cleanup

* 7958 on both sides of the copper IHS

And maybe Conductonaut on the copper IHS depending on prior results and keeping in mind my modest power draw requirements.

 

Again, many thanks to you and others for the various pieces of pro knowledge and support. In case it wasn't apparent, I was getting a bit frustrated with the thermal issues, and the advice to delid was absolutely spot-on (although the new faster pump/larger backplate AIO is probably also helpful, I will test vs Arctic if I have the time). Time to pop the champagne, cheers!