*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

1 minute ago, Papusan said:

Where's the link for the Asus Product Survey? Thanks🙂

They send it to you by email when you register an ASUS product to your account.

[Papusan]

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

They send it to you by email when you register an ASUS product to your account.

Dang. Over a year since I got the Apex board. But I usually put such email right into the trash-bin🙂 

[Mr. Fox]

8 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Dang. Over a year since I got the Apex board. But I usually put such email right into the trash-bin🙂 

I got a similar email to do a product review and I did a very negative review on the 4090 Strix because of its sucky memory overclocking. For some reason (LOL) they did not publish the review. 😉

[Etern4l]

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thank you. Building it easy with flexible tubing and has the added advantage of making changes and redesigning on the fly easy. 

 

Yeah, I'm sure it would be, however, I am waiting for a proper use case. As it turns out, running 13900K(S) above 250W for extended periods is not safe or even easy. Is there a TIM that can really do this on a die this small, if even solder doesn't cut it - I hope either the industrial phase-change stuff or multiple applications of LM will eventually do the trick, for now just running things cooler to be safe. Luckily, the 13900K performs marvelously that way, you really only give up a few % of performance vs "stock", whatever that means (given that 350W+ would be required to run CB23 at stock ratios and voltages).

 

I have this old fairly premium case which is doing a great job, I guess because it has a meshed (rather than glass) side panel with a 200mm 130cfm fan blowing directly at the mobo.

It has connectors for an external WC setup, which I don't have the space for, and to mount an internal reservoir would be awkward. I would have to get rid of my BluRay drive, and dremel those 3.5" bays out or something. Could be done, but not an appealing prospect. 

 

 

 

Basically would need to replace the beloved case, or wait until I need another PC, at which point I would go with a custom loop for sure (just for the fun and the presumably lower noise). 

 

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The hard part for me is keeping a system looking nice because of the absolutely brutal dust here. It's not just normal dust, but sand, so cleaning requires that you take extra care to avoid scratching things up really bad. And, no matter how much effort goes into it, eliminating scratches completely is borderline impossible. Just blowing the dust off with air can cause fine scratches on things like acrylic.

 

That's pretty bad and not great for your lungs either. Presumably you have done some major air filtering already?

A large IQAir unit like the healthpro 250 would probably take a care of this, but you would need an extra pre-prefilter for all that dust (which these support as an optional attachment, not shown on the diagram - it would be 4. at the bottom of the unit).

It's modular so you can get get rid of that activated carbon unit 2. if you don't need it and add another pre-filter or hepa.

 

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Cooling systems are also less efficient here due to the lack of humidity. 

 

Ha, great point (and obviously makes sense) - another use case for a humidifier.

 

I wish I could fill out that Asus survey to explain to them why I didn't buy an Asus mobo. Executive sumnary: nice BIOS but HW lacking in terms of quality and features :)

 

[johnksss]

@Mr. Fox I see you ordered a block for your card. Do you think it will help? And how long is yours going to take to get to you?

I'm on the fence about trying to do another block and if it will make a serious difference or not.

[Mr. Fox]

30 minutes ago, johnksss said:

@Mr. Fox I see you ordered a block for your card. Do you think it will help? And how long is yours going to take to get to you?

I'm on the fence about trying to do anther block and if it will make serious difference or not.

I should have it by this weekend. It is coming from Alabama (not China as is usually the case with Bykski parts). Based on what I saw with the Liquid X compared to the Strix and Suprim X (non-liquid) I have now, I think it will make a minor improvement with the chiller running. When I had the AC unit blowing cold air through the radiator on the Liquid X my boost clocks did go up, along with the benchmark scores. I anticipate similar with the chilled water. Hopefully a little better with the chiller.

 

Probably no huge change in performance without the chiller, but absolutely better for me as the PC operator being in the same room as the computer in terms of the insane amount of heat generated by the air cooler. It is absolutely crazy how hot that air cooler gets and the heat bellowing off of it. Same was true with the Strix. In both cases the GPU stays respectably cool, but it is like heater running in my office when it is already too hot.

 

The EVGA DG-86 case has a temperature probe for the digital read-out on the front panel. It is very accurate and always matches the digital thermometer I have sitting inside of the case. I put that probe into the outer end of the cooler. Maybe later I will run a Time Spy stress test and take a photo showing the temperature on the coldest end of the cooler. Should be interesting just for giggles.

[johnksss]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I should have it by this weekend. It is coming from Alabama (not China as is usually the case with Bykski parts). Based on what I saw with the Liquid X compared to the Strix and Suprim X (non-liquid) I have now, I think it will make a minor improvement with the chiller running. When I had the AC unit blowing cold air through the radiator on the Liquid X my boost clocks did go up, along with the benchmark scores. I anticipate similar with the chilled water. Hopefully a little better with the chiller.

 

Probably no huge change in performance without the chiller, but absolutely better for me as the PC operator being in the same room as the computer in terms of the insane amount of heat generated by the air cooler. It is absolutely crazy how hot that air cooler gets and the heat bellowing off of it. Same was true with the Strix. In both cases the GPU stays respectably cool, but it is like heater running in my office when it is already too hot.

That was one of the reasons why I did not jump right on it. As right now I'm still waiting on my programmable Mercedes Benz Keyless Go keys that some how got destroyed in transit. Total time 34 days. They just sent out another batch today.

 

Yes, card does kick out lots of heat, but i usually leave fan speed on like 35% and it seems to do fine, but on normal or warm days...That is another matter. I'm on the fence with getting the EK-Quantum Vector² Trio RTX 4090 D-RGB ABP Set - Nickel + Plexi or the EK-Quantum Vector² Trio RTX 4090 D-RGB - Nickel + Plexi. Says they should have some by the 31st and get here by April 7th. So sometime next week if I preorder. Been trying to see some real reviews of this block with our card and not really finding anything of interest though.

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, johnksss said:

That was one of the reasons why I did not jump right on it. As right now I'm still waiting on my programmable Mercedes Benz Keyless Go keys that some how got destroyed in transit. Total time 34 days. They just sent out another batch today.

 

Yes, card does kick out lots of heat, but i usually leave fan speed on like 35% and it seems to do fine, but on normal or warm days...That is another matter. I'm on the fence with getting the EK-Quantum Vector² Trio RTX 4090 D-RGB ABP Set - Nickel + Plexi or the EK-Quantum Vector² Trio RTX 4090 D-RGB - Nickel + Plexi. Says they should have some by the 31st and get here by April 7th. So sometime next week if I preorder. Been trying to see some real reviews of this block with our card and not really finding anything of interest though.

The EKWB Velocity2 direct die kit left a lot to be desired in terms of results. It was built like a Swiss watch, with impeccable precision and quality. But, the cooling results just were not there. The 6900 XT I got from Brother @Rage Setincluded a Bykski block to install and it does an impressive job, and looks nice. It doesn't have the same level of spit and polish to it, but it does what you want it to really well. Kind of like the Supercool direct die block. You can overlook a certain degree of crudeness based on results.

 

I think the lack of reviews on the EKWB blocks might have something to do with results. Just speculation. If they were doing impressive things with thermals, I think we would see more. I say that knowing we live in a culture that tends to value form over function. That is sad, but it is the reality of the situation. The EKWB blocks are oozing form in spades. The function is not known due to the lack of reviews.

[Papusan]

10 hours ago, Etern4l said:

I have this old fairly premium case which is doing a great job, I guess because it has a meshed (rather than glass) side panel with a 200mm 130cfm fan blowing directly at the mobo.

It has connectors for an external WC setup, which I don't have the space for, and to mount an internal reservoir would be awkward. I would have to get rid of my BluRay drive, and dremel those 3.5" bays out or something. Could be done, but not an appealing prospect.

 

 Basically would need to replace the beloved case, or wait until I need another PC, at which point I would go with a custom loop for sure (just for the fun and the presumably lower noise). 

You could use EK-Loop Uni Pump Reservoir Bracket - 120mm or similar from other manufacturers. Nothing stop you from make it look avsome🙂 You don't need have to go for a  external WC setup. Just find and pick the right parts.

 

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-uni-pump-bracket-120mm-fan-vertical

 

 

1 hour ago, johnksss said:

Yes, card does kick out lots of heat, but i usually leave fan speed on like 35% and it seems to do fine, but on normal or warm days...That is another matter. I'm on the fence with getting the EK-Quantum Vector² Trio RTX 4090 D-RGB ABP Set - Nickel + Plexi or the EK-Quantum Vector² Trio RTX 4090 D-RGB - Nickel + Plexi. Says they should have some by the 31st and get here by April 7th. So sometime next week if I preorder. Been trying to see some real reviews of this block with our card and not really finding anything of interest though.

Be aware for price hike from EK. You have limited time on you if you not know other ways to pay less... EK's Official Statement on Upcoming Price Adjustments - EKWB

[johnksss]

12 minutes ago, Papusan said:

You could use EK-Loop Uni Pump Reservoir Bracket - 120mm or similar from other manufacturers. Nothing stop you from make it look avsome🙂 You don't need have to go for a  external WC setup. Just find and pick the right parts.

 

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-uni-pump-bracket-120mm-fan-vertical

 

 

Be aware for price hike from EK. You have limited time on you if you not know other ways to pay less... EK's Official Statement on Upcoming Price Adjustments - EKWB

hummm, so preorder to get locked in pricing now...

[Papusan]

2 minutes ago, johnksss said:

hummm, so preorder to get locked in pricing now...

"These changes will occur on March 31, 2023, and the price increase will only affect certain products. Those prices will increase by 8% on average, applying to any selected product or product line our company currently offers"

 

Not sure what what products will be affected. Maybe worth send an email if you can't find what parts will get the price hike. 

[Etern4l]

26 minutes ago, Papusan said:

You could use EK-Loop Uni Pump Reservoir Bracket - 120mm or similar from other manufacturers. Nothing stop you from make it look avsome🙂 

 

 

Appreciate the idea bro, wouldn't work unfortunately, there is just about 10-11cm vertical clearance over there. Would need to reclaim all that space lost to the 3.5 drive cage area to be able to install a pump/reservoir internally. A bit of a lost cause. The only thing that would work with this is an external cooling setup, for instance something like this:

 

https://www.performance-pcs.com/water-cooling/external-cooling-system/aquacomputer-aquaduct-240-eco-mark-ii-ext-watercooling-system-microprocessor-controlled-12v-pump-aq-11234.html

 

Lame on its own (240 rad), but in combination with a hefty internal 360  in lieu of the AIO it would likely provide good improvement, maybe in conjunction with a second internal pump if I can find space for one. 

 

Something like that might actually be a good upgrade, will take a look.

[Papusan]

19 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Appreciate the idea bro, wouldn't work unfortunately, there is just about 10-11cm vertical clearance over there. Would need to reclaim all that space lost to 3.5 trays area to be able to install a pump/reservoir internally. A bit of a lost cause. The only thing that would work with this is an external cooling setup, for instance something like this:

 

https://www.performance-pcs.com/water-cooling/external-cooling-system/aquacomputer-aquaduct-240-eco-mark-ii-ext-watercooling-system-microprocessor-controlled-12v-pump-aq-11234.html

 

Lame on its own (240 rad), but in combination with a hefty internal 360  in lieu of the AIO it would likely provide good improvement, maybe in conjunction with a second internal pump if I can find space for one. 

What you have in front of the HDD trays that need all the place over the bottom fan?

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/EK-IM/EK-IM-3830046997999.pdf

 

Edit. If my son want the bigger GPU I have to use a shorter reservoir for the custom loop and use the fan bracket so the pump combo go above the GPU. And I had to put the thicker radiator in the fan tray in front to make it work. Many ways  go to Rome. Just be a bit creative 🙂

[johnksss]

16 minutes ago, johnksss said:

hummm, so preorder to get locked in pricing now...

It also says it wont affect parts ordered before the 31st as well...

[Papusan]

2 minutes ago, johnksss said:

It also says it wont affect parts ordered before the 31st as well...

Yep, thats an option. I only posted an heads up. We are soon finished with 27 March here🙂

[Etern4l]

48 minutes ago, Papusan said:

What you have in front of the HDD trays that need all the place over the bottom fan?

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/EK-IM/EK-IM-3830046997999.pdf

 

Graphics cards. The setup above would require about 18cm of clearance above the fan.  No way. Could probably fit a second pump there though if needed. How about something like this:

 

https://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Alphacool-Eiswand-360-Solo-Black_65661.html

https://www.overclockers.com/alphacool-eiswand-360-watercooling-kit-review/

 

Would need to be able to disconnect without draining the system to enable maintenance, and this does have quick release connectors. 2 pumps. The slow fans can be replaced presumably.

 

Maybe this is even better an idea than getting a new case to do an internal setup, from the cooling performance point of view, especially if the graphics cards can stay on air (and they do).

 

 

[Papusan]

11 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Graphics cards. The setup above would require about 18cm of clearance above the fan.  No way. Could probably fit a second pump there though if needed. How about something like this:

 

https://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Alphacool-Eiswand-360-Solo-Black_65661.html

https://www.overclockers.com/alphacool-eiswand-360-watercooling-kit-review/

 

Would need to be able to disconnect without draining the system to enable maintenance, and this does have quick release connectors.

 

Maybe this is even better an idea than getting a new case to do an internal setup, from the cooling performance point of view, especially if the graphics cards can stay on air (and they do).

 

 

See my comment about my sons pc. I can use a shorter Pump/ reservoir combo to come above the GPU. And I don't have to fit the combo on the fan (can use the wall). But yep, many ways how to make an custom loop. Or go for an external solution. Then you have thinner distro plates with pumps where you can put several places... Sooo

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

What you have in front of the HDD trays that need all the place over the bottom fan?

 

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Appreciate the idea bro, wouldn't work unfortunately, there is just about 10-11cm vertical clearance over there.

What about a reservoir and pump combo designed to fit into a 5.25 inch drive bay? These use a standard D5 pump.

 

https://modmymods.com/reservoirs/bay-reservoirs.html

 

This one even includes the pump. Price is actually really good... $87 USD.

 

https://modmymods.com/alphacool-eisfach-single-laing-d5-incl-alphacool-eispumpe-vpp755-dual-5-25-bay-station-reservoir-13304.html

 

[tps3443]

 

I just purchased a brand new 13900KS from Antonline. $759.99 USD. I paid a small mark up to avoid ordering from Amazon.
 

I feel like Amazon is a quick guarantee to get a silicon loser! 😁
 

We shall see how good a random sample is for a random retail 13900KS. Just in-case any of you change your mind, and decide to

gamble on a retail KS too lol!
 

I’m going to make a video about this start to finish. 
 

Ordering, delivery, unboxing, delidding, and testing! All while comparing this random (13900KS) to my P-SP121 (13900K)

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The EVGA DG-86 case has a temperature probe for the digital read-out on the front panel. It is very accurate and always matches the digital thermometer I have sitting inside of the case. I put that probe into the outer end of the cooler. Maybe later I will run a Time Spy stress test and take a photo showing the temperature on the coldest end of the cooler. Should be interesting just for giggles.

Brother @johnksssSo, yeah... ran a few loops of Time Spy with the 4090 stock and the reason it feels like a blast furnace with the air cooling is because it is. One could easily turn off their heater in the winter... 54°C (125°F) air getting pumped off the GPU within about 3 minutes, LOL. The arrow is where I have the temperature probe positioned. Definitely will improve with a water block for that reason alone. I don't know how hot it would get if I let it finish all 20 loops in the stress test.

 

 

Public Service Announcement

And, here is a tidbit for anyone that thinks that using alcohol to dry out the water inside of a water block is a smart thing to do. DON'T DO IT.  I learned a valuable lesson the hard way. I flushed the 3060 Ti block with distilled water, poured some alcohol into it, maybe a tablespoon or two, swished it around, then blew it out with my PC cleaning blower.

 

It removed all of the water quickly and effortlessly, and it looked like brand new. A few days later the acrylic is cracked severely and ruined. Now I know why my 2080 Ti Quantum Vector block is ruined. I did the same thing to it when I was getting ready to sell it. It looked like brand new. A few days later I got ready to take photos of it for selling and it was cracked like crazy.

 

I hope my idiotic bright idea that is actually abject ignorance saves some heartache for one of you guys. Seems smart enough, but it is the exact opposite. In both cases the alcohol was in the block for less than 1 minute. That's all it took to destroy them both, and it wasn't obvious because I did not see it happen. It was not instant.

 

I am so glad I did not use alcohol on the window of the DG-86 case. That would have been the end of it.

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

A brand to avoid.....'¨'

 

Inno3D don't accept fixing any problems if the warranty sticker is broken and they went with the cheapest kind of some components, even cut down on components on the +1600$ Nvidia flagship to further cut costs. So tripple bad. Can't be any worse than this.   

 

 

[Rengsey R. H. Jr.]

@PapusanGet well soon brother. Been a long time. How are you u @Mr. Fox? 

 

Anyone got a good non bloated nvidia slim down high performance driver that you can share? I just got my m18 with the RTX 4090 and want to tinker arouund a bit. TIA

[Papusan]

9 minutes ago, Rengsey R. H. Jr. said:

@PapusanGet well soon brother. Been a long time. How are you u @Mr. Fox? 

 

Anyone got a good non bloated nvidia slim down high performance driver that you can share? I just got my m18 with the RTX 4090 and want to tinker arouund a bit. TIA

Hi brother. Long time no seen. Nice see  you in here 🙂 Use Techpowerup NVCLEANSTALL. Best option nowadays. And there is limited drivers released for 4090. With this tool you can fast change between drivers.

 

 

[Rengsey R. H. Jr.]

Here is two benchmark. One is Asus G18 with RTX 4080 and the other Alienware M18

 

M18 RTX 4090

 

 

 

 

Asus G18 RTX 4080

 

[Mr. Fox]

28 minutes ago, Rengsey R. H. Jr. said:

@PapusanGet well soon brother. Been a long time. How are you u @Mr. Fox? 

 

Anyone got a good non bloated nvidia slim down high performance driver that you can share? I just got my m18 with the RTX 4090 and want to tinker arouund a bit. TIA

Hi Brother! Long time no see. Doing better than I deserve to be. Nice to see you.

21 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Hi brother. Long time no seen. Nice see  you in here 🙂 Use Techpowerup NVCLEANSTALL. Best option nowadays. And there is limited drivers released for 4090. With this tool you can fast change between drivers.

 

 

Yes, what Brother @Papusansaid. It is what I use. Install only driver, Phys-X and HDMI audio if you use that (otherwise not) and use the tweak options to remove telemetry, GeFarts Excoriance, etc. If you skip the trash payload it will spare you about 1,200 registry entries, close to a dozen performance leeching Services and  spyware that serves no useful purpose to the end user (only data piracy for the Green Goblin).