*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[tps3443]

8 hours ago, johnksss said:

Yeah, that's Alex Ro...that guy is kind of on the busy side of things.

 

Had it had the heatsinks I might have jumped on that deal.

 

Edit: I posted over there...

Thanks! He PM’ed me back. Yeah he must be very busy. He said he’s gotta use the board in a competition or something then he can send it off. 

[Etern4l]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:29 AM, ssj92 said:

Question on RAM...

 

Will DDR5 5600Mhz CL40 make a nice difference over 4800Mhz CL40 on 13th gen?

 

Looking at timespy/fire strike cpu score, cinebench r23, etc. 

 

I mean I already ordered the RAM LOL just was curious 

 

Define "nice difference".. For a bencher engulfed in LN2 fumes, fighting to the death for the top spot on HWBOT, that extra 1% of realized performance would be very nice indeed. For most people though the difference would be very difficult to tell apart from noise, particularly in gaming and most other heavily optimised numerical benchmarks used in typical enthusiast scenarios. Whatever you do, do you require lots of RAM? If not, then marginally faster RAM is mostly a vanity purchase, as is a modern Alienware laptop itself :) 

[tps3443]

I just bought an Asus Z690 Apex 2022 from a guy for $270.00 shipped! It has all of the covers and accessories, and he’s in the USA! 😀😀😀

 

Freaking awesome!!!

 

And my 13900KS showed up. And also an SP113 global (13900K) for testing. It has a higher P-SP and E-SP than my 13900K.
 

 

 

[Etern4l]

27 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I just bought an Asus Z690 Apex 2022 from a guy for $270.00 shipped! It has all of the covers and accessories, and he’s in the USA! 😀😀😀

 

Freaking awesome!!!

 

And my 13900KS showed up. And also an SP113 global (13900K) for testing. It has a higher P-SP and E-SP than my 13900K.
 

 

 

 

Looks like a crazy discount on the mobo? The question is: what's the catch? 

[tps3443]

13 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Looks like a heavy discount on the mobo? The question is: what's the catch? 

There is not supposed to be a catch with it, just a good deal I suppose. I did put up a “Wanted add” and I had a few people respond to it. The seller apparently is buying a Z790 Apex and he is using the funds towards that. 
 

Now that I think about it. I have never owned an Asus ROG motherboard in my life... But the board is only used for SP testing. It better be solid as a rock in order to replace my trusty Unify-X, because this MSI board has been just incredible. It really gave me a new found respect for MSI. 

[Etern4l]

8 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

There is not supposed to be a catch with it, just a good deal I suppose. I did put up a “Wanted add” and I had a few people respond to it. The seller apparently is buying a Z790 Apex and he is using the funds towards that. 
 

Now that I think about it. I have never owned an Asus ROG motherboard in my life... But the board is only used for SP testing. It better be solid as a rock in order to replace my trusty Unify-X, because this MSI board has been just incredible. It really gave me a new found respect for MSI. 

 

Cool, hopefully just a whale offloading. $800 on Amazon. 

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

Cool, hopefully just a whale offloading. $800 on Amazon. 

I think $270 is normal or fair. This is a last gen chipset motherboard Z690 Apex, and it’s used definitely not worth $800 even brand new (Maybe $500). They also had a lot of issues with the memory dimm slots. So most of the 2021 built Z690 Apex boards had poor memory overclocking. This was fixed on some boards through warranty, but definitely 100% good to go on the models built in 2022 or later. 
 

So when people buy a Z690 Asus board Hero/Apex/Formula they want it to be a 2022+ model just to certain it’s good due to this memory issue they all had. 

[Mr. Fox]

52 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I think $270 is normal or fair. This is a last gen chipset motherboard Z690 Apex, and it’s used definitely not worth $800 even brand new (Maybe $500). They also had a lot of issues with the memory dimm slots. So most of the 2021 built Z690 Apex boards had poor memory overclocking. This was fixed on some boards through warranty, but definitely 100% good to go on the models built in 2022 or later. 
 

So when people buy a Z690 Asus board Hero/Apex/Formula they want it to be a 2022+ model just to certain it’s good. 

Yeah, you even see that spelled out in black and white on eBay. If it doesn't say 2022 version, that is probably a piece of very conveniently omitted information and I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole if you cannot verify it. The people selling used mobos are going to be sure they let potential buyers know it's not one of the 2021 trash models, and the people looking to offload one released before 2022 know not to mention it in the listing. That's not to say that all of them released before 2022 were defective. Some of them were fine, but there is no point in taking a chance on ending up with someone else's nightmare if you can avoid it.

[Papusan]

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, we're right in the middle of sad times for computer tech and gaming. Lots of worthless trash out there. 

Yep. Todays post from me is about disgusting....

 

 

Software Bug Lets You Overclock AMD's 5800X3D to Death In Seconds

The problem is significant enough that AMD previously blocked overclocking of the chip entirely and reduced the maximum core voltage from 1.5v down to 1.35v. AMD says the voltage restrictions are due to voltage limitations of the added cache, however,  our testing indicates that the limitations almost certainly have something to do with the chip's heat dissipation issues.

 

Damn fragile V-cashe chips. Forget anything that comes with this tech will be fully unlocked. I really hope Intel don't jump on this tech to boost games performance 2-5%.

 

Say goodbye to your X3D chips once you hit that voltage button. In other words... Overclocking = Killing me softly can be fun, LOOL

 

 

Asus' Pricey, Proprietary Mobile RTX 4090 eGPU Arrives, for $1,999

 

The GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop GPU has a configurable TGP between 80W and 150W, so consumers get the highest configuration here. Logically, it can't compete with some overclocked GeForce RTX 4090 Laptop GPUs with a 175W envelope, but that's a story for another day.

 

In other words, Asus is charging $900 or 82% more for the new version of its proprietary external GPU. On the bright side, there should be ample availability for the ROG XG Mobile 2023 given the price. 

 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

I think $270 is normal or fair. This is a last gen chipset motherboard Z690 Apex, and it’s used definitely not worth $800 even brand new (Maybe $500). They also had a lot of issues with the memory dimm slots. So most of the 2021 built Z690 Apex boards had poor memory overclocking. This was fixed on some boards through warranty, but definitely 100% good to go on the models built in 2022 or later. 
 

So when people buy a Z690 Asus board Hero/Apex/Formula they want it to be a 2022+ model just to certain it’s good due to this memory issue they all had. 

 

Clear. All this crazy depreciation (how much was the board at launch? $1k+?) is just stealth tax on enthusiasts and early adopters. Instead of releasing a properly working product, they push half-baked stuff out out as soon as possible, knowing full well people will lap up anything new and shiny (c) @Papusan,  only to fix things in a later revision or refresh. Not really an Asus-specific point either, I'm afraid. I guess this puts EVGA in good light with their delayed releases, some things in life are worth waiting for a bit. 

[Mr. Fox]

17 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Clear. All this crazy depreciation (how much was the board at launch? $1k+?) is just stealth tax on enthusiasts and early adopters. Instead of releasing a properly working product, they push half-baked stuff out out as soon as possible, knowing full well people will lap up anything new and shiny (c) @Papusan,  only to fix things in a later revision or refresh. Not really an Asus-specific point either, I'm afraid. I guess this puts EVGA in good light with their delayed releases, some of things in life are worth waiting for a bit. 

QC has been an issue with ASUS for a few years, especially with their flagship models. Seems like they get rushed to market, overpriced and in limited quantities, for end users that strive to own the best to be their free beta testers. That kind of unacceptable approach to business going to eventually catch up to them, and I think it is starting to.

 

They used to be top notch, but they haven't been for a good while. They offer some really compelling features and excellent functionality, but the inconsistency is what tarnishes things. I think irrational fanboy loyalty (the kind that ignores flaws) and favorable reputation based on their notorious history is what keeps them afloat.

 

Some of this wouldn't be nearly as damning if their warranty options and service quality didn't suck. When you buy a defective piece of crap and it takes them 3 to 6 weeks to make things right it really makes them hard to love. Factor in the free radical cancer like Armory Crate and AURA and it's easy to end up in a not very happy place with them. When everything goes well, it can be an amazing experience if you don't count the nasty software filth.

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Some of this wouldn't be nearly as damning if their warranty options and service quality didn't suck. When you buy a defective piece of crap and it takes them 3 to 6 weeks to make things right it really makes them hard to love. Factor in the free radical cancer like Armory Crate and AURA and it's easy to end up in a not very happy place with them. When everything goes well, it can be an amazing experience if you don't count the nasty software filth.

Maybe because Armory Crate is pure malware and the kiddos (the younger gen Y and Z) want - must have it for the bling bling, the Asus Mod team only have focus on this cancerware. Asus digging their own grave with all bad changes. 

 

[Reciever]

55 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Maybe because Armory Crate is pure malware and the kiddos (the younger gen Y and Z) want - must have it for the bling bling, the Asus Mod team only have focus on this cancerware. Asus digging their own grave with all bad changes. 

 

Seems editing is back?

[Mr. Fox]

20 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Bykski block should be delivered tomorrow for the 4090 Suprim.

Got it. Quality is outstanding, just like the Bykski block on the 6900 XT. Very pleased with it. Brand new... Paid $160 total, including tax and shipping. It came with all of the correct screws and pads... very easy installation. I added pads to the inductors (was intended for them to be naked, I think). Still no audible coil whine under 100% load.  The only thing I wish Bykski would have done for both blocks is include a single-slot PCIe bracket with screws into the acrylic rather than using the stock PCIe bracket and no screws except the two that attach at the PCB. 

 

Fun facts:

• The Suprim X would overheat and go black screen with automatic fan curve around pass #16 in a 20-pass Port Royal stress test, as the fan curve did not allow the fans to boost to full speed quickly and stay at 100%
• Forcing max fans it would easily pass the same stress test with core temperatures almost the same (within 2°C) as the waterblock
• Internal case temperature during the max fan stress test reached 52°C (insane) but only 28°C internal case temps with the waterblock
• The backplate and metal fan shroud were almost too hot to touch with fans maxed out, and of course... there is the fan noise with the fans maxed out
• The backplate feels like room temperature with the GPU under 100% stress test with the waterblock, with the added benefit of zero fan noise

So, chilled water benching coming this weekend... 🙂 

 

[tps3443]

7 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Clear. All this crazy depreciation (how much was the board at launch? $1k+?) is just stealth tax on enthusiasts and early adopters. Instead of releasing a properly working product, they push half-baked stuff out out as soon as possible, knowing full well people will lap up anything new and shiny (c) @Papusan,  only to fix things in a later revision or refresh. Not really an Asus-specific point either, I'm afraid. I guess this puts EVGA in good light with their delayed releases, some things in life are worth waiting for a bit. 

The Z690 Apex was $699.99 new. Asus ROG boards really hold their value believe it or not (I know this is silly, but it’s really one of the few PC products that does). Too much so actually lol. A good Z690 Apex that is a 2022 model is worth $450-$500 bucks used easily if you can find one. If it’s brand new, then honestly it’s worth $550-$625 because you cannot even find a brand new Z790 Apex anywhere, they are always sold out at $699.99 + Taxes. So you’ve gotta deal with scalpers. Which keep the market prices high on these boards.

 

Clean used Asus ROG boards with all accessories in great shape fetch a premium close to what they costed when brand new. 
 

I know some had their issues, but the 2022 models resolved all of that. And they really are the best “all around” motherboards you can buy. 
 

All motherboards have their fair share of problems. I have owned (3) generations of EVGA Dark motherboards. While re-sale value on these is very poor, they had minimal surface level issues, and ran rock solid for the most part. 

[Papusan]

I can't grasp why EVGA have this problem... This is on top of other problems with compatibility. Don't they have the tools, sources, unlocking keys and in-house oc'ers to make their newest OC bords working with most HW anymore? What next?

 

[Mr. Fox]

47 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I can't grasp why EVGA have this problem... This is on top of other problems with compatibility. Don't they have the tools, sources, unlocking keys and in-house oc'ers to make their newest OC bords working with most HW anymore? What next?

 

According to that post, SLI requires a key for the firmware and NVIDIA won't provide one to them. 

 

It should not be hard to understand. They refuse to bow before the kings of trash. They have always done what is right and best for the people that buy their products instead of what they are told to do. That may prove fatal, because doing what is best for customers is against protocol. You do what you're told to do.

 

It is like boxing or wrestling. The best fighter doesn't win. The one chosen to win wins. If the best fighter choses to win even when it is not appointed to him to win, his career is ended. He used his fighting ability and defeated the chosen one, now he is out of a job or worse for demonstrating he was better and for refusing to obey.

 

They instead chose to follow the  wisdom of truly great talent like Kingpin, Tin, Luumi and CENS and now there will be hell to pay for doing more than what was prescribed by the self-exalted gods they refused to worship.

 

It would not surprise me if the evil leaders in PC tech maliciously attempt to destroy them. There is no room for excellence. If you don't kiss butt then you're out. They are also the only one left that hasn't made their software UWP filth. All of their competitors are butt-kissing slaves and muppets.

 

I suspect Asus and MSI don't like having to do stupid stuff like making their software UWP cancer, or gimping their GPUs with locked down firmware trash, but they have been obedient servants, so they get to enjoy cookies and milk before bedtime.

[tps3443]

This new 13900KS is really a nice darn chip! Batch# X252N653. 
 

Runs similar to my 13900K across the board only this 13900KS uses -0.040V to -0.050V less voltage at any frequency. Not as good as that last 13900KS lol. But definitely half way there! 
 

This chip is really great though! I’ll find out the SP rating when my Z690 Apex arrives. 
 

It sits comfortably between my 13900K (SP110) and that really nice 13900KS (SP117) I tested. This chip is probably an SP112-SP115 if I had to guess.

 

It uses just a little more voltage over that SP117 13900KS about +0.045V more at 6.1Ghz. 
 

I was quite surprised to see it was even better than my 13900K. I’m

not sure if this is just dumb luck or what. 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Got it. Quality is outstanding, just like the Bykski block on the 6900 XT. Very pleased with it.

I forgot to mention that I used one of those old-school twin-edge razor blades that is very thin and managed to remove the tamper-proof seal on the GPU spring bracket screw with zero damage. It is flawless. If I should need to RMA I will be able to put that back and won't have to deal with any lame or bogus warranty fulfillment excuses on the part of the manufacturer. I also left all of the plastic on the cooler. It will look brand new when it is old if I put it back to stock.

 

Amazon gave me a bunch of crap about the Liquid X return and something like a "final written warning" because of that seal being broken. This one will probably last me forever, or until I don't want it anymore, but at least I don't have to worry about stupid excuses.

[tps3443]

This is 6.0P/4.5E/5.1R with 15C-17C water and the chip is consuming 1.288V under load. This is with 1.300V in the bios. This is really impressive for just some random 13900KS. 

Just KILLER! This chip is great!!! 
 

[Mr. Fox]

Just now, tps3443 said:

This is 6.0P/4.5E/5.1R with 15C-17C water and the chip is consuming 1.288V under load. This is with 1.300V in the bios. This is really impressive for just some random 13900KS. 

Just KILLER! This chip is great!!! 

You lucky dawg. I am jealous. You keep winning the silicon lottery, dude. The only time I ever won in the silicon lottery buying a new CPU, my CPU got killed by a defective suicide bomber Z490 Apex that took the CPU with it. Congrats. Again, LOL.

[Etern4l]

5 hours ago, tps3443 said:

The Z690 Apex was $699.99 new. Asus ROG boards really hold their value believe it or not (I know this is silly, but it’s really one of the few PC products that does). Too much so actually lol. A good Z690 Apex that is a 2022 model is worth $450-$500 bucks used easily if you can find one. If it’s brand new, then honestly it’s worth $550-$625 because you cannot even find a brand new Z790 Apex anywhere, they are always sold out at $699.99 + Taxes. So you’ve gotta deal with scalpers. Which keep the market prices high on these boards.

 

Clean used Asus ROG boards with all accessories in great shape fetch a premium close to what they costed when brand new. 
 

I know some had their issues, but the 2022 models resolved all of that. And they really are the best “all around” motherboards you can buy. 
 

All motherboards have their fair share of problems. I have owned (3) generations of EVGA Dark motherboards. While re-sale value on these is very poor, they had minimal surface level issues, and ran rock solid for the most part. 

 

All makes sense. I incorrectly assumed Apex was the equivalent of Godlike. It's a XOC 2 DIMM board, a competitor of EVGA Dark, which is why I never took a closer look. I need 4DIMMs, E-ATX, at least 2 PCIe slots, two TB ports and best reliability/build quality/QC. ASrock Taichi aside, the main options are MSI ACE as well as Asus Hero and ProArt. Asus Hero failed the smell test due to the burning cap issue, while ProArt is weakly built, and had lesser memory OC potential. The ACE also did consistently well in benchmarks against those two Asus boards. MSI board specs are a bit more detailed/technical as well, which I like, for example they state things like TB controller model etc. 

For some reason though, Asus probably is valued by a lot of people, since availability tends to be worse.

 

I suspect BIOS / Windows software or perhaps more aggressive launch pricing could be the reason (at the cost to QC possibly).

Whatever, I didn't even review Asus options this time around since I saw @Mr. Fox's complaints about Linux compatibility of an Asus board and want none of that. 

 

 

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

According to that post, SLI requires a key for the firmware and NVIDIA won't provide one to them. 

This smells as they could go to lawsuit  if they wanted go that route. If one or several MB manufacturers can get the key from Nvidi but not the other they would have a good case. They have nothing to lose dragging nvidia to court. So why they accept it as is, is for me very weird.

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

This smells as they could go to lawsuit  if they wanted go that route. If one or several MB manufacturers can get the key from Nvidi but not the other they would have a good case. They have nothing to lose dragging nvidia to court. So why they accept it as is, is for me very weird.

We have no way of knowing if they have something pending. NVIDIA might be able to make a legitimate case that they only provide this to companies that sell licensed NVIDIA products, and now EVGA no longer is an NVIDIA partner selling licensed products.

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

All makes sense. I incorrectly assumed Apex was the equivalent of Godlike. It's a XOC 2 DIMM board, a competitor of EVGA Dark, which is why I never took a closer look. I need 4DIMMs, E-ATX, at least 2 PCIe slots, two TB ports and best reliability/build quality/QC. ASrock Taichi aside, the main options are MSI ACE as well as Asus Hero and ProArt. Asus Hero failed the smell test due to the burning cap issue, while ProArt is weakly built, and had lesser memory OC potential. The ACE also did consistently well in benchmarks against those two Asus boards. MSI board specs are a bit more detailed/technical as well, which I like, for example they state things like TB controller model etc. 

For some reason though, Asus probably is valued by a lot of people, since availability tends to be worse.

 

I suspect BIOS / Windows software or perhaps more aggressive launch pricing could be the reason (at the cost to QC possibly).

Whatever, I didn't even review Asus options this time around since I saw @Mr. Fox's complaints about Linux compatibility of an Asus board and want none of that. 

The Dark is E-ATX and has two x16, one x4 PCIe slots. If you do not mind me asknig, what is it that you do that requires 4 DIMMs and two TB ports? Just curious since you said "need" versus "want" and it seems that was not by accident.

[Papusan]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

We have no way of knowing if they have something pending. NVIDIA might be able to make a legitimate case that they only provide this to companies that sell licensed NVIDIA products, and now EVGA no longer is an NVIDIA partner selling licensed products.

Oh'well....