*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[jaybee83]

16 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Intel making earnest strides to work on the software side of their ARC GPUs after critical reviews of initial release:

 

 

 

yeah so funny....what was it? like 63 or so bugs reported JUST by the GN A380 review alone? just goes to show what kinda value it has to work openly with the community 🙂 instead of hiding behind closed doors...

 

edit: looked it up, it was actually 43, but still a bunch! haha

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

yeah so funny....what was it? like 63 or so bugs reported JUST by the GN A380 review alone? just goes to show what kinda value it has to work openly with the community 🙂 instead of hiding behind closed doors...

 

Not that Intel would go to the lengths of Linux , but open source is as brutal as it gets in people finding, reporting and even chastising you for crap or bugs in your software.

 

I've worked in many small teams and the few I led I made it a policy for complete, open door sit downs where your code is completely open and subject to review with zero filters and eat your own chow methodology by other members and the weekly meetings would be just absolutely savage but bugs and issues tended to get flagged, documented and fixed much quicker. I was on the receiving end of a few beat downs too....it does light a fire under your keister! 🙂

 

Speaking of the A380, Newegg just charged my card on the back order from last week so it will be shipping today or tomorrow. Fun times. 🙂

 

I plan on pairing it with an Asrock B660M MicroATX w/ 12100f for fun times.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

I was on the receiving end of a few beat downs too....it does light a fire under your keister! 🙂

When you can take as much as you dish out and come back for more, you have the respect of everyone in the room. It's when the opposite is true that we start running into bigger problems.

[1610ftw]

tales of Titans:

 

Here is an interesting video with some benchmarks for the MSI GT77 that only manages to allow for an average of 140W delivered to its CPU in a CPU only benchmark even though its heatsink should allow for up to 250W cooling capability for both CPU and GPU:

 

 

Overall it looks like the GT77 does bring little to no improvement to the table over the smaller and cheaper GE77 when it comes to GPU and CPU so not worth the added money if a performance increase is the goal.

 

That used to be different with previous Titan models but not any more it seems and it should lead to MSI reconsidering their cooling concept that is let's say not delivering as hoped for despite their effort with numerous heat pipes and 4 fans.

 

A notebookcheck review has also uncovered that where previously Titan models had very good SSD cooling this one has no cooling at all which leads to unsatisfactory reads and I am sure also writes:

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Titan-GT77-12UHS-Laptop-Review-Alder-Lake-HX-poster-child-with-unhindered-desktop-class-performance.640632.0.html

 

 

This is some kind of advance sample by Intel but from what I have seen the release version also has no heatsinks which is probably due to the misguided insistence on making this one extra slim. Of course we all know that this is what is most important for a flagship laptop...

[jaybee83]

3 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

tales of Titans:

 

Here is an interesting video with some benchmarks for the MSI GT77 that only manages to allow for an average of 140W delivered to its CPU in a CPU only benchmark even though its heatsink should allow for up to 250W cooling capability for both CPU and GPU:

 

 

Overall it looks like the GT77 does bring little to no improvement to the table over the smaller and cheaper GE77 when it comes to GPU and CPU so not worth the added money if a performance increase is the goal.

 

That used to be different with previous Titan models but not any more it seems and it should lead to MSI reconsidering their cooling concept that is let's say not delivering as hoped for despite their effort with numerous heat pipes and 4 fans.

 

A notebookcheck review has also uncovered that where previously Titan models had very good SSD cooling this one has no cooling at all which leads to unsatisfactory reads and I am sure also writes:

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Titan-GT77-12UHS-Laptop-Review-Alder-Lake-HX-poster-child-with-unhindered-desktop-class-performance.640632.0.html

 

 

This is some kind of advance sample by Intel but from what I have seen the release version also has no heatsinks which is probably due to the misguided insistence on making this one extra slim. Of course we all know that this is what is most important for a flagship laptop...

oh how the mighty (titans) have fallen...

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

oh how the mighty (titans) have fallen...

Sadly, this is true. And, in great part because of how utterly stupid a massive number of the world's population have become. They buy trash with no knowledge or understanding that they are purchasing pathetic garbage on the blind assumption that marketing propaganda is accurate and honest. The same biowaste specimens are allowed to breed and vote, create policy, surrender their children to a system so they can be taught how to become equally stupid and worthless zombies, slaughter the ones they didn't spawn intentionally, and pretend their biological composition bears no relationship to their true identity. So, now we have what we have. GIGO.

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

oh how the mighty (titans) have fallen...

 

What is even more troubling is that this is the only system in this generation that even allows for this much sustained power to the CPU while also allowing for more than the now typical 2 + 2 memory and storage slots.

 

So this is already as good as it gets and I am really tired of this laptop fat-shaming - the GT77 isn't heavy, it barely weighs 7lbs! I am sure many here know that 7lbs was a relatively low weight for a 17" laptop not too long ago and look where we are now!

 

My best guess is that 3mm added height and 350g added weight would have been enough for a higher performance unified vapor chamber and SSD cooling and 5mm and 550g should have been enough to also add a socketed CPU and still stay at or below 8.5 lbs.

Adding weight in the right places and for the right reasons gives the owner more performance and a little bit of exercise which cannot hurt for most of us. And for people who want weak featherweight laptops there is still the vast majority of laptops on the market that offer just that: Mediocre at best performance in a slim and (supposedly) pretty package.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tenoroon]

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

oh how the mighty (titans) have fallen...

Yeah, it's sad, the Titan series had much potential for greatness.

They went from having a 200 watt GPU and a high wattage unlocked CPU (hell, they could have probably put a desktop CPU in if they wanted and it would have been fine) like this:



To having a 160 watt (175 if the CPU isn't slammed, which is rare) BGA PoS GPU and a CPU that throttles to all hell all of time that is just a badly binned 12900k like this:

[1610ftw]

55 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

Yeah, it's sad, the Titan series had much potential for greatness.

They went from having a 200 watt GPU and a high wattage unlocked CPU (hell, they could have probably put a desktop CPU in if they wanted and it would have been fine) like this:



To having a 160 watt (175 if the CPU isn't slammed, which is rare) BGA PoS GPU and a CPU that throttles to all hell all of time that is just a badly binned 12900k like this:

 

 

The GT76 allowed for 200W to the GPU and 200W to the CPU with 400W combined for both, reduced now to 250W because according to MSI more isn't needed - must be one of the biggest regressions ever to lose that much capability in one generation!

 

As for the soldered GPU and CPU it seems to be a trademark of MSI for maybe 10 years now that they always offer one degree of modularity less than is possible.

 

Back when it was possible to have both CPU and GPU socketed they only ever had one of each socketed within their Titan series and now where they could at least have kept the socketed CPU to very good effect (13900K coming up) they chose to solder both to chase some exaggerated thinness and weight goals that nobody asked for in the first place in a top of the line model. It is called Titan after all, not Elf.

[jaybee83]

2 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

What is even more troubling is that this is the only system in this generation that even allows for this much sustained power to the CPU while also allowing for more than the now typical 2 + 2 memory and storage slots.

 

So this is already as good as it gets and I am really tired of this laptop fat-shaming - the GT77 isn't heavy, it barely weighs 7lbs! I am sure many here know that 7lbs was a relatively low weight for a 17" laptop not too long ago and look where we are now!

 

My best guess is that 3mm added height and 350g added weight would have been enough for a higher performance unified vapor chamber and SSD cooling and 5mm and 550g should have been enough to also add a socketed CPU and still stay at or below 8.5 lbs.

Adding weight in the right places and for the right reasons gives the owner more performance and a little bit of exercise which cannot hurt for most of us. And for people who want weak featherweight laptops there is still the vast majority of laptops on the market that offer just that: Mediocre at best performance in a slim and (supposedly) pretty package.

 

 

 

 

 

laptop fat-shaming, i love it! so accurate! 

[Papusan]

7 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

oh how the mighty (titans) have fallen...

Titan have never been an option. MSI screwed up the model with the hybrid BGA solution. Either BGA Cpu or BGA graphics. Now a fully soldered on mess including Hybrid boost for huge premium. No thanks.

[win32asmguy]

38 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Titan have never been an option. MSI screwed up the model with the hybrid BGA solution. Either BGA Cpu or BGA graphics. Now a fully soldered on mess including Hybrid boost for huge premium. No thanks.

They had one model WT75 with modular CPU and GPU. It came with a Quadro GPU but could take the MSI 1070 MXM card. Sadly no supplementary power connector so ~180W was its limit with a modded VBIOS. 9900k could go up to 200W with IMON_SLOPE hacks but I only had a single 330W instead of dual 230W so no idea if it could support that in combined loads. It even had a MUX so it could get 5 hours of battery life in iGPU mode with some tuning. Alot of people hated on its 120hz FHD TN panel but it was a good panel with great response times given the other options at the time.

 

The NH55J is more powerful, sure, but the feature set of the WT75 was so much better.

[jaybee83]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Titan have never been an option. MSI screwed up the model with the hybrid BGA solution. Either BGA Cpu or BGA graphics. Now a fully soldered on mess including Hybrid boost for huge premium. No thanks.

 

true, BGA always sucks, but at least u can give the hardware some leeway in terms of wattage limits (or non-existence thereof, just juice until the VRMs / psu gives out on you! 😛 )

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

true, BGA always sucks, but at least u can give the hardware some leeway in terms of wattage limits (or non-existence thereof, just juice until the VRMs / psu gives out on you! 😛 )

My thoughts exactly - it is as if they have already given up on any semblance of ambition once they decided to go fully soldered. It may be fun to get one of those with a beefier aftermarket cooling solution and at least 450W of sustained power from the power supply(s) and then we'll see if it isn't possible to sustain 160 or 180W on the CPU and 200+W on the shunt modded GPU 😄

[Clamibot]

My highest single core CB15 score ever:

 

 

I still haven't managed to reach 5.8 GHz, but 5.7 GHz is very stable and doesn't require insane voltages.

 

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

They had one model WT75 with modular CPU and GPU. It came with a Quadro GPU but could take the MSI 1070 MXM card. Sadly no supplementary power connector so ~180W was its limit with a modded VBIOS. 9900k could go up to 200W with IMON_SLOPE hacks but I only had a single 330W instead of dual 230W so no idea if it could support that in combined loads. It even had a MUX so it could get 5 hours of battery life in iGPU mode with some tuning. Alot of people hated on its 120hz FHD TN panel but it was a good panel with great response times given the other options at the time.

 

The NH55J is more powerful, sure, but the feature set of the WT75 was so much better.

The sheeple always love the suckiest crap and hate on the better crap. If it is actually good or great they have a total come-undone. They have no ability to grasp the magnitude of their own tragic stupidity.

[Papusan]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:19 AM, electrosoft said:

Speaking of the A380, Newegg just charged my card on the back order from last week so it will be shipping today or tomorrow. Fun times. 🙂

 

I plan on pairing it with an Asrock B660M MicroATX w/ 12100f for fun times.

Have fun 🙂 Maybe you'll see the 3.1GHz a few have seen for their graphics cards.

 

Overclocker shares experience with Intel Arc A380 GPU overclocking to 3.1 GHz
https://videocardz.com/newz/overclocker-shares-experience-with-intel-arc-a380-gpu-overclocking-to-3-1-ghz

 

 It appears that this low-end A380 GPU is not prone to shunt-modding, and neither the voltage controller data can be modified at this point.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nvidia and AMD Seriously Want to Offload Current-Gen GPUs

By Tim Schiesser, August 22 TechSpot Hardware

In the lead up to next-gen GPUs and current graphics card pricing discussion, there are still a few horrible deals, a few decent buys, and some news to talk about in our latest GPU pricing update.

 

Higher-end cards like the RTX 3080 Ti and above will need more than tier below pricing to be worth recommending, too, given their extremely overinflated launch MSRPs. So none of these cards scream "buy" at the moment and we'd like to see at least another 20-30 percent price reduction before recommending you to purchase. Price drops have been too slow to keep up.

6 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

They had one model WT75 with modular CPU and GPU. It came with a Quadro GPU but could take the MSI 1070 MXM card. Sadly no supplementary power connector so ~180W was its limit with a modded VBIOS. 9900k could go up to 200W with IMON_SLOPE hacks but I only had a single 330W instead of dual 230W so no idea if it could support that in combined loads. It even had a MUX so it could get 5 hours of battery life in iGPU mode with some tuning. Alot of people hated on its 120hz FHD TN panel but it was a good panel with great response times given the other options at the time.

 

The NH55J is more powerful, sure, but the feature set of the WT75 was so much better.

Yep, and Msi even created a real 15,6 inch DTR laptop at that time with socketed Cpu and Gpu. But they throw it out the same door because all focus forwards was on slimmer Jokebooks for creators and gamers. All OEMs follow same paths forwards. All create the same slimy laptops but with a small change in the design. 

[Reciever]

I heavily debated the msi f5 but couldn't agree to that keyboard. 

[Tenoroon]

6 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

They had one model WT75 with modular CPU and GPU. It came with a Quadro GPU but could take the MSI 1070 MXM card. Sadly no supplementary power connector so ~180W was its limit with a modded VBIOS. 9900k could go up to 200W with IMON_SLOPE hacks but I only had a single 330W instead of dual 230W so no idea if it could support that in combined loads. It even had a MUX so it could get 5 hours of battery life in iGPU mode with some tuning. Alot of people hated on its 120hz FHD TN panel but it was a good panel with great response times given the other options at the time.

 

The NH55J is more powerful, sure, but the feature set of the WT75 was so much better.

Yeah, I forgot they made the WT75. It's a shame that there's almost no documentation/reviews on them. It seems the best laptops are the most obscure 😉
 

25 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, and Msi even created a real 15,6 inch DTR laptop at that time with socketed Cpu and Gpu. But they throw it out the same door because all focus forwards was on slimmer Jokebooks for creators and gamers. All OEMs follow same paths forwards. All create the same slimy laptops but with a small change in the design. 

The F5 was always really interesting to me, I almost pulled the trigger on one before I got the P870, but I ended up not doing so as I was unsure if it could take a Coffee Lake CPU without the Prema BIOS at the time. This one's quite obscure too...

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Clamibot said:

My highest single core CB15 score ever:

 

 

I still haven't managed to reach 5.8 GHz, but 5.7 GHz is very stable and doesn't require insane voltages.

 

 

Awesome!

 

As much as I love the X170KM-G, as soon as you put a good chip on a good desktop motherboard, you quickly realize its limitations no matter how good it is within the laptop realm.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

42 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Awesome!

 

As much as I love the X170KM-G, as soon as you put a good chip on a good desktop motherboard, you quickly realize its limitations no matter how good it is within the laptop realm.

 

 

Indeed. The best laptop money can buy is, at best, a lackluster equivalent of a mediocre desktop.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Awesome!

 

As much as I love the X170KM-G, as soon as you put a good chip on a good desktop motherboard, you quickly realize its limitations no matter how good it is within the laptop realm.

 

 

High singel core boost is the new modern. Very important for laptops as they can't run very high all core boost equal desktops due their crippled cooling. No need for a good performing coolling for that task. All core boost is their main limitations. Pair it with hybrid boost (max out GPU) and the cooling can't keep both HW cold. 

 

And.....

 

Aka swap over to desktops🙂

 

[Clamibot]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Awesome!

 

As much as I love the X170KM-G, as soon as you put a good chip on a good desktop motherboard, you quickly realize its limitations no matter how good it is within the laptop realm.

 

 

 

Yep. Just putting the CPU into a desktop with a good high end motherboard and good cooler unlocked an additional 200 MHz on top of what I was able to achieve in my X170SM-G using extreme cooling. More realistically, it's an extra 300 MHz since that 5.5 GHz single core overclock on my X170SM-G wasn't 100% stable, but 5.4 GHz was.

 

On my desktop, 5.7 GHz single core is rock solid stable, and only requires the same 1.5v that was required in my X170SM-G to achieve that 5.5 GHz with extreme cooling.

 

Had I gotten that EVGA Z490 Dark from @Mr. Fox, I'd probably be able to achieve even higher speeds at this same 1.5v. I wasn't really planning on building another desktop at the time though. I only wanted the super 10900K, but plans changed. Oh well, at least now I know what I'm going to do next time. I'm always planning future builds to succeed my current ones.🤣

 

34 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Indeed. The best laptop money can buy is, at best, a lackluster equivalent of a mediocre desktop.

 

It's absolutely ridiculous how much better the experience is on desktops. I'd foregone desktops for so long that I'd forgotten how good they were, and now I don't think I'll ever go back to laptops again for a performance oriented system.

 

If I need a portable successor to my X170, I'll just build a portable desktop. I've had enough of getting screwed over on upgrades for upgradeable laptops.

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Tenoroon said:

The F5 was always really interesting to me, I almost pulled the trigger on one before I got the P870, but I ended up not doing so as I was unsure if it could take a Coffee Lake CPU without the Prema BIOS at the time. This one's quite obscure too...

The Eurocom Tornado F5 and other boutique-branded versions of the same product was definitely an interesting machine. It had several redeeming qualities and all of the elements that would be needed to constitute a paradigm of excellence. This is ironic because it was a "whitebook" product that was superior to the mainstream BGA equivalent piece of crap that received MSI branding. In spite of its admirable traits, it had some very damning artificial firmware-induced defects that largely spoiled it and prevented it from being viewed as excellent overall. Even so, ignoring the defects with origins rooted in engineering incompetence on MSI's part, the form factor made it impossible for me to love it.

 

I have owned about five 15-inch laptops and about nine 17- and 18-inch laptops. In my experience, all of the laptops smaller than 17-inch were impossible to view as quintessentially excellent products. Using a 15-inch always left me with a sense of disappointment because it was simply too small and compromised to generate excitement, enthusiasm or a satisfying user experience.

[1610ftw]

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The sheeple always love the suckiest crap and hate on the better crap. If it is actually good or great they have a total come-undone. They have no ability to grasp the magnitude of their own tragic stupidity.

Very true - the WT75 was a socketed monster and MSI could have improved upon it quite easily with the next generation but instead they released their first really good design in years as a workstation only and one might as well have thought it never existed as so few were sold. In Europe it wasn't even on offer in most countries and almost nobody knew about it.

 

And agree 110% on screen size - I cannot understand people who are actually happy with 15" - it is so tiny while 17" is at least acceptable. The only laptop where I ever though this is a nice screen size was the 20" 16:10 HDX Dragon - that size felt really good and it would fit in a Alienware 18 sized chassis - not that I expect to ever see something like that...