All about Windows 11 news and announcements

[kojack]

It doesn't bother me.  I find it funny though that people constantly make names like "mircoslop" etc and still use it and just post every single day about how bad it is and blah blah blah, and still use it.  I laugh at it.  Just move to something else, find software to do what you need to do and be a much happier person. Instead, the few will post 20 links per day about mciroslop and their terrible, no good, bad, software and rant and rave about it all day on here.  TOO FUNNY.  There are many linux distros, and MacOS you can go to and be happy. 

 

Instead of being miserable posting crap in every microsoft / windows thread use something different and move on with your life.  It's quite simple and enjoyable really.  I tried MacOS 3 times now, each time, I sell at a loss and move back to windows.  I voice my opinion on MacOS when asked why I don't use it, and move on.  I am not on every single macOS thread whining and complaining about it.  

[Steerpike]

On 8/25/2023 at 11:03 AM, Mr. Fox said:

When the software (or even hardware in some circumstances) that you need or want to use only works on Windows, and you find the version of Windows you are stuck with sucks, complaining about the fact that it sucks is not silly. It makes sense and I would encourage them to continue complaining. I suspect most of the people that think it sucks would move to a platform that doesn't suck if they could. For some it is simply a matter of laziness. For some, maybe most, it is technical ignorance and lack of ability to do that. The idea of replacing the OS scares the crap out of some, and spending money to pay someone else to do it for them may not be an option for some. For the majority, I suspect the issue boils down to the software they need or want to use, and using a sucky version of Windows is enough of a point of frustration for them that complaining is the best way to deal with the disappointment. It shouldn't bother anybody that likes Windows 11 that not everyone else does, but it appears that it does bother some of them.

 

I do not particularly like any version of Windows after Windows 7, but I use all of them, and Linux, at least part of the time. I use Windows 11 at least 40 hours a week for work, and have been for a long time. My opinion about it hasn't changed and it probably never will. I like Linux best, but it is the least accommodating in terms of allowing me to use the software I need and/or want to use. The only reason I am not still using Windows 7 is the missing driver support that my newer hardware requires to function. When everything is functioning the way I want it to then I don't burn too many calories griping about how much it sucks or how ugly it is to look at. It is what it is... like it or not.

My problem is one of proportionality. I see the value of this thread (and this forum) not as a therapy session for people to vent their frustrations, but rather to provide useful guidance to others who may come here looking for good advice. 

 

This thread has been hijacked by people who mainly want to spill venom over Windows 11.  I'm sure some people stumble upon this thread and read it to get an idea of 'how is Windows 11?'. To read this thread, it's a disaster and should be avoided at all costs - that's certainly the conclusion I would form.  I couldn't avoid W11 initially as it came pre-installed on my new laptop. I thought about downgrading, but it wasn't clear that a brand new 'consumer grade' laptop with hardware such as a fingerprint reader, backlit keyboard, custom keyboard 'Fn' keys, ambient light sensor, camera, trackpad, the latest wifi chips, etc would be fully functional after a downgrade; just how good is the vendor's 'driver management' page, and do they provide W10 versions of ALL the required drivers?  Rather than go down that rabbit hole (which I've done many times in the past) I decided to just 'suck it and see'. And to my great surprise, it's been a perfectly fine experience (I once lost access on an old laptop to Fn-key control of screen brightness, and keyboard backlighting, just by doing a clean install of W10 on a laptop that SHIPPED with W10 - the vendor's driver/support page simply didn't support getting those things back, and I had to re-install from an image - this was all documented on the precursor to this site). 

 

There have been dozens of posts here criticizing MS for stuffing adds everywhere, and 'commercializing' the OS.  I'm simply not seeing any of that. And while the 'start' menu has degraded slightly (Windows 10 with it's 'live tiles' was not great either), I've learned to get a lot more use out of the 'task bar' - I now 'pin' all my favorite / frequent apps there, and I find it much more user-friendly than using the 'start' menu (especially because I can right-click an app icon in the task-bar and get a list of recent files used by that app) so getting away from the 'start' menu has in fact been a blessing, one I never expected.  And also, when I DO need to use 'start' (typically to 'find' an app I don't use often), rather than wade through a long list of possible apps, I use the ability to enter a few letters of the app name (eg I can type 'view' and it will pull up TeamViewer and IrfanView).  And W11 has done an amazing job of handling multiple screens at different resolutions, of display size scaling, etc - better than W10, and a massive improvement over W7. 

 

Finally, the OS is simply a means towards getting to your applications - excel, browser, games, calculator, quicken, etc.  I spend 99.9% of my time 'within' a variety of apps, and I'm oblivious to what OS I'm working 'under'.  I got used to W7, later I got used to W10, and now after a couple of years I've got used to W11. I went back to my W10 laptop the other day to find something I hadn't yet migrated, and it felt so 'odd'. 

[Kassowen]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:03 PM, Mr. Fox said:

When the software (or even hardware in some circumstances) that you need or want to use only works on Windows, and you find the version of Windows you are stuck with sucks, complaining about the fact that it sucks is not silly. It makes sense and I would encourage them to continue complaining. I suspect most of the people that think it sucks would move to a platform that doesn't suck if they could. For some it is simply a matter of laziness. For some, maybe most, it is technical ignorance and lack of ability to do that. The idea of replacing the OS scares the crap out of some, and spending money to pay someone else to do it for them may not be an option for some. For the majority, I suspect the issue boils down to the software they need or want to use, and using a sucky version of Windows is enough of a point of frustration for them that complaining is the best way to deal with the disappointment. It shouldn't bother anybody that likes Windows 11 that not everyone else does, but it appears that it does bother some of them.

 

I do not particularly like any version of Windows after Windows 7, but I use all of them, and Linux, at least part of the time. I use Windows 11 at least 40 hours a week for work, and have been for a long time. My opinion about it hasn't changed and it probably never will. I like Linux best, but it is the least accommodating in terms of allowing me to use the software I need and/or want to use. The only reason I am not still using Windows 7 is the missing driver support that my newer hardware requires to function. When everything is functioning the way I want it to then I don't burn too many calories griping about how much it sucks or how ugly it is to look at. It is what it is... like it or not.

 

I am just curious, I will be using enterprise soon, and I am curious if you can comment on windows 10 vs W11 enterprise. I get that the LTSC is the most popular here for reliability and performance, but aside from the negatives of that one, I at least get control of updates with enterprise. No one seems to know much about W11 enterprise, you mess around with it much? I keep what I have for years, so going to W11 sooner then later doesnt seem like a bad Idea, but I am curious what insight you have.

[Mr. Fox]

28 minutes ago, Kassowen said:

 

I am just curious, I will be using enterprise soon, and I am curious if you can comment on windows 10 vs W11 enterprise. I get that the LTSC is the most popular here for reliability and performance, but aside from the negatives of that one, I at least get control of updates with enterprise. No one seems to know much about W11 enterprise, you mess around with it much? I keep what I have for years, so going to W11 sooner then later doesnt seem like a bad Idea, but I am curious what insight you have.

Windows 11 Enterprise is not really any different than Windows 11 Pro. I think it was more for licensing purposes than functionality. There is no LTSC version AFAIK. I eventually formatted and replaced it with Pro and there was no change in performance and nothing remarkable. The same is true of Windows 10 Enterprise (non-LTSC) versus Pro versus Pro for Workstations. Only LTSC was remarkably different. The other variations are irrelevant IMHO. 

[Kassowen]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Windows 11 Enterprise is not really any different than Windows 11 Pro. I think it was more for licensing purposes than functionality. There is no LTSC version AFAIK. I eventually formatted and replaced it with Pro and there was no change in performance and nothing remarkable. The same is true of Windows 10 Enterprise (non-LTSC) versus Pro versus Pro for Workstations. Only LTSC was remarkably different. The other variations are irrelevant IMHO. 

 

27 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Windows 11 Enterprise is not really any different than Windows 11 Pro. I think it was more for licensing purposes than functionality. There is no LTSC version AFAIK. I eventually formatted and replaced it with Pro and there was no change in performance and nothing remarkable. The same is true of Windows 10 Enterprise (non-LTSC) versus Pro versus Pro for Workstations. Only LTSC was remarkably different. The other variations are irrelevant IMHO. 

 

People here often like to talk the most about W10 2019 LTSC, is the performance/reliability gain truly that much? Or would regular W11 enterprise or W10 enterprise not much better? I would think disabling telemetry, app store, etc. wouldnt be that difficult with the later 2, and I am really interested in the later two for long support and feature updates that I would only really need once or twice a year. Among other things, I am concerned about all the bugs with W11.

[Papusan]

On 8/27/2023 at 12:28 AM, Steerpike said:

To read this thread, it's a disaster and should be avoided at all costs - that's certainly the conclusion I would form. 

LOOL.
 

Everyone is allowed to tell how they feel about Win11. Both on good and bad. This thread is mainly to inform people about Windows 11 in its current form. And Win 11 haven’t changed much since release. This is a news thread also. 
 

Ps. I’m the thread creator. And the thread have 18.4k views 🙂

 

Microsoft's incessant Windows ads are getting out of control | PCWorld

for 1 døgn siden — Now, not only is Microsoft nagging Windows 10 users to upgrade, but as The Verge documents, new Microsoft ads are springing up on the Windows 11

[Kassowen]

25 minutes ago, Papusan said:

LOOL.
 

Everyone is allowed to tell how they feel about Win11. Both on good and bad. This thread is mainly to inform people about Windows 11 in its current form. And Win 11 haven’t changed much since release. This is a news thread also. 
 

Ps. I’m the thread creator. And the thread have 18.4k views 🙂

 

 

Microsoft's incessant Windows ads are getting out of control | PCWorld

 

for 1 døgn siden — Now, not only is Microsoft nagging Windows 10 users to upgrade, but as The Verge documents, new Microsoft ads are springing up on the Windows 11

Does that include W11 enterprise? I hear the most bugs about W11, but not much on enterprise.

[Papusan]

8 minutes ago, Kassowen said:

Does that include W11 enterprise? I hear the most bugs about W11, but not much on enterprise.

Most consumers/gamers use Home/Pro. And most info is about those versions. I expect the Enterprise has more restrictions already baked into gpedit/registry. Etc my LTSC versions haven’t been plagued much with this Microsoft introduced mess. + tweaked LTSC OS help on this as well. 
 

And my different Win 11 test os is tweaked as well. 

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Kassowen said:

 

 

People here often like to talk the most about W10 2019 LTSC, is the performance/reliability gain truly that much? Or would regular W11 enterprise or W10 enterprise not much better? I would think disabling telemetry, app store, etc. wouldnt be that difficult with the later 2, and I am really interested in the later two for long support and feature updates that I would only really need once or twice a year. Among other things, I am concerned about all the bugs with W11.

Windows 10 LTSC 2019 and LTSC 2021 generally offer a little bit snappier CPU performance and better memory performance because the CPU has less worthless trash to blog it down. Every version of Windows that followed Windows 7 degrades CPU performance a bit more than the version before it. The consumer versions, especially Windows 11 have a so much worthless filth running that doesn't even need to exist. Not uncommon to bring up task manager and see 200 or more processes running with nothing open. Totally ludicrous.

[kojack]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:41 PM, Mr. Fox said:

Windows 10 LTSC 2019 and LTSC 2021 generally offer a little bit snappier CPU performance and better memory performance because the CPU has less worthless trash to blog it down. Every version of Windows that followed Windows 7 degrades CPU performance a bit more than the version before it. The consumer versions, especially Windows 11 have a so much worthless filth running that doesn't even need to exist. Not uncommon to bring up task manager and see 200 or more processes running with nothing open. Totally ludicrous.

I see all these processes in TM, but I do not see any performance hit etc that is being claimed here. If there is, it's not perceivable using your computer. AT ALL.   

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, kojack said:

I see all these processes in TM, but I do not see any performance hit etc that is being claimed here. If there is, it's not perceivable using your computer. AT ALL.   

Tell me your hardware specs and I’ll post some benchmarks numbers you can try compete against. Maybe we could start first with your desktop hardware. So happy benching :) 

 

Fyi. Click one of the hwbot links in my signature and you can search up whatever hardware you want to compare with. Etc i9-13900k will be more like i9 13900K in the top search bar on hwbot. They have above 50 different benchmarks you can try only for the processor. Many benchmarks works as real world tests🙂

[kojack]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Tell me your hardware specs and I’ll post some benchmarks numbers you can try compete against. Maybe we could start first with your desktop hardware. So happy benching :) 

 

Fyi. Click one of the hwbot links in my signature and you can search up whatever hardware you want to compare with. Etc i9-13900k will be more like i9 13900K in the top search bar on hwbot. They have above 50 different benchmarks you can try only for the processor. Many benchmarks works as real world tests🙂

That was my point,  you may see something using a synthetic benchmark, but actually using your computer doing computer stuff,  You don't see a difference or slow down.

[Papusan]

27 minutes ago, kojack said:

That was my point,  you may see something using a synthetic benchmark, but actually using your computer doing computer stuff,  You don't see a difference or slow down.

You forget snappiness. How fast you go in and out from tasks etc. You can only measure this if you have a multi-boot system with several OS to test. Equal important for some. If you etc render a scene with 2 or 20 or 59 seconds difference after the job is done isn’t that important. Again people have different needs and some feels the difference between their different systems. 
 

And there is benchmarks that simulate real computer work. Can’t diminish that. Just hit up pudget test procedures and tests. Then it needs to be tested between the different OS setups. A multi-boot setup is perfect for that. 

[Etern4l]

There a 2 issues:

 

* Potential death (or malaise) by a thousand cuts from all those background services - difficult to measure in practice, as regards impact on real-life use, which is not to say that such impact is necessarily inisgnificant

* Instances of windows services kicking up and unexpectedly consuming humongous amounts of resources - I experienced this a lot, e.g. Windows Reliability Service or something like that (50% of CPU util. over long periods of time on a 13900K) - one of the reasons I ditched Windows

[Papusan]

14 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

There a 2 issues:

 

* Potential death (or malaise) by a thousand cuts from all those background services - difficult to measure in practice, as regards impact on real-life use, which is not to say that such impact is necessarily inisgnificant

* Instances of windows services kicking up and unexpectedly consuming humongous amounts of resources - I experienced this a lot, e.g. Windows Reliability Service or something like that (50% of CPU util. over long periods of time on a 13900K) - one of the reasons I ditched Windows

One example. I don’t use it but Microsoft say etc use game mode to reduce services for etc gaming. Why they say so…. Because Windows has services and tasks that kick in and out. Lower service and tasks usually improve snappiness and offer more stable high performance. And that’s even from the stupids at Microsoft that put in more and more unnecessary tasks. Better way do this is tweaking or find the os version that you feel you get a gain from. But no newer OS versions offer better experience in all tasks and applications vs others. Unisex (best in everything) is dead for windows OS. 
 

https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/games-apps/game-setup-and-play/use-game-mode-gaming-on-pc

[Etern4l]

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

One example. I don’t use it but Microsoft say etc use game mode to reduce services for etc gaming. Why they say so…. Because Windows has services and tasks that kick in and out. Lower service and tasks usually improve snappiness and offer more stable high performance. And that’s even from the stupids at Microsoft that put in more and more unnecessary tasks. 

That’s a good point but the problem is that even if servicitis doesn’t flare up, Clear Linux is much faster. We are talking up to +30% in some CPU

benchmarks.

 

[Papusan]

9 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

That’s a good point but the problem is that even if servicitis doesn’t flare up, Clear Linux is much faster. We are talking up to +30% in some CPU

benchmarks.

 

Here you have a problem as well. Linux ain’t best in everything (performance). This is tested. So no OS offer perfection. Same with the different Windows versions. You just can’t have it all. And that’s damn sad. 
 

Microsoft could have done so much better. But prefer work with things a core OS don’t need. They also could optimized the OS much more for performance/snappiness.  They have the tools and the skills but they don’t use it fully. 

[Etern4l]

11 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Here you have a problem as well. Linux ain’t best in everything (performance). This is tested. So no OS offer perfection. Same with the different Windows versions. You just can’t have it all. And that’s damn sad. 
 

Microsoft could have done so much better. But prefer work with things a core OS don’t need. They also could optimized the OS much more for performance/snappiness.  They have the tools and the skills but they don’t use it fully. 

Not all Linux distros are equal. Clear Linux is also much faster than most other Linux variants. Intel really delivered the goods there. I’m not really worried about a single aspect of that system”s performance being worse than Windows 11 lol. If you have some specific test results of concern (or pride, as a Windows user 😉 )let me know. The only thing that could spring to mind is some issue with drivers/kernel support for new hardware - for example, proper Alder Lake support took a while to get rolled out.

[Papusan]

20 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Not all Linux distros are equal. Clear Linux is also much faster than most other Linux distros. Intel really delivered the goods there. I’m not really worried about a single aspect of that system”s performance being worse than Windows 11 lol. If you have some specific test results of concern (or pride, as a Windows user 😉 )let me know. 

HeHe. I know. I just read tests as the devil read the Bible 🙂

 

see here. My son used another OS version. He have a jokebook while he pass up our dog while we are on our 1 month vacation. He pinged me up and wondered why the 12500H needed loads of more wattage than his other pc setup home in games. Nothing is always easy to explain, but how the OS behaves is one of the culprits. Not just that he use an jokebook. A combo of two cancers paired together is enough 🙂

 

Fyi. Søppel in Norwegian is Garbage in English. 

 

https://ibb.co/ns0stZT

 

 

[Etern4l]

46 minutes ago, Papusan said:

HeHe. I know. I just read tests as the devil read the Bible 🙂

 

see here. My son used another OS version. He have a jokebook while he pass up our dog while we are on our 1 month vacation. He pinged me up and wondered why the 12500H needed loads of more wattage than his other pc Gaming setup home in games. Nothing is always easy to explain, but how the OS behaves is one of the culprits. Not just that he use an jokebook. A combo of two cancers paired together is enough 🙂

 

Søppel in Norwegian is Garbage in English. 

 

https://ibb.co/ns0stZT

 

 

Fair enough, I don’t know much about power management on Linux laptops, I’m talking about performance as in speed. Wouldn”t necessarily expect Clear Linux to be super power efficient when idle, it’s optimised for pure power.

 

I look at benchmark results as well, and the best resource for Linux vs Windows comparisons is Phoronix (that I know of). 
 

plus obviously I can dual boot and bench myself. I posted some results in one of the Linux threads. Windows gets blown out of the water in many cases, but never vice versa.

 

Gaming could be another area of weakness (according to @Mr.Fox its not bad actually) but that would be due to Windows emulation. GPUs bench about the same on Linux as on Windows for me in native benchmarks.

[raptorddd]

6 hours ago, kojack said:

I see all these processes in TM, but I do not see any performance hit etc that is being claimed here. If there is, it's not perceivable using your computer. AT ALL.   

i have a sandy bridge 2nd gen i7 that when i tweak it the way i want it performs better.  so to me it does affect snapinnes.

 maybe doing light tasks you wont see a difference if you have a powerful cpu. 

 

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

You forget snappiness. How fast you go in and out from tasks etc. You can only measure this if you have a multi-boot system with several OS to test. Equal important for some. If you etc render a scene with 2 or 20 or 59 seconds difference after the job is done isn’t that important. Again people have different needs and some feels the difference between their different systems. 
 

And there is benchmarks that simulate real computer work. Can’t diminish that. Just hit up pudget test procedures and tests. Then it needs to be tested between the different OS setups. A multi-boot setup is perfect for that. 

agree........

[kojack]

15 minutes ago, raptorddd said:

i have a sandy bridge 2nd gen i7 that when i tweak it the way i want it performs better.  so to me it does affect snapinnes.

 maybe doing light tasks you wont see a difference if you have a powerful cpu. 

 

agree........

My systems do heaving lifting in photo/video/graphics work and they are fast. My notebook is a little slower doing the same work as it only has Xe graphics, but It does it...it's not the OS slowing down my systems at all, they are extremely "snappy" as claimed here.  I hit software and it opens instantly.  No waiting around like on the Mseries macs that I have been looking at. Open safari or chrome on the M2 macbook and there is like a 2 second delay before the software opens.  My notebook, you hit edge and it's open instantly ready to rock.  As I said, I do NOT see any lag etc using both of my systems. 

[Mr. Fox]

6 hours ago, kojack said:

I see all these processes in TM, but I do not see any performance hit etc that is being claimed here. If there is, it's not perceivable using your computer. AT ALL.   

All you have to do is measure it. The biggest hit is on something that requires a swift reaction from the CPU, such as wPrime or a 3DMark Physics test. Huge hit on performance due to lag that you can actually see and feel. I posted side by side comparisons more than once and it's true. Numbers don't lie and neither does the seat of your pants. That's probably why the most recent few releases in the 3DMark suite don't even have a CPU test anymore. It would raise too many questions about why CPU performance has gone down and continues to decline and more and more performance hindering updates occur.

 

If all you're doing is web browsing and poking around with an office productivity application, or anything like that, you probably won't notice because those tasks don't require a swift, low-latency reaction and you're not trying to figure out why performance has taken a nose dive. And, people that limit the use of their computer in that way are generally not performance enthusiasts.

[kojack]

If you have to measure it in milliseconds it's not a huge deal that is made out to be.  As I said previously You do not notice any of this "lag" using your computer as a computer....Only running a benchmark, etc.  

[Mr. Fox]

That simply isn't true. If you optimize your system and disable or delete all of the unnecessary services and background filth that is running and doesn't need to be you will immediately notice a difference. You'll be able to see it and feel it. Even when you disable everything in Windows 10 and 11 that is unnecessary garbage it's still smaller than Windows 7 due to wasteful overhead that steals CPU clock cycles. It's actually very simple and boils down to a matter of operating system overhead and wasteful use of resources.

 

The latest versions of Windows 10/11 behave in a way similar to a computer that has been infected by malware or running buggy software with a memory leak. When you're used to it you likely not notice. The degradation has taken place gradually over time due to the incremental addition of garbage. The difference is the equivalent of opening 10, 15 or 20 programs that are not being used and expecting system performance to be the same as if they were not running.