thermal paste Which Thermal Paste to buy and apply (Traditional and Liquid Metal)

[cylix]

20 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

The pad. I paid off a local ebay scalper so delivery was quick - shame on me 😞 Tricky to apply, glad I ordered a 80x40mm sheet, I ruined the first half. The application kit was helpful. Performance was poor initially (275W max power in CB23) and then the magic started happening, each CB23 run the max power draw started climbing - went up to 335W, which is the highest I can remember. Now fell off to 320W which is still good compared to other pastes after a few days. Fingers crossed. I have to note that the pad I received was not Honeywell branded, just a generic PTM7950. Have another one coming from China just in case. I don't really see a reason to try the paste, however, might do if this fails.

What was the problem by the application of the pad? So i dont screw it up myself when i will use it😁. And keep us in the loop how it behaves over time.👍

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, cylix said:

What was the problem by the application of the pad? So i dont screw it up myself when i will use it😁. And keep us in the loop how it behaves over time.👍

 

The pad is very thin and obviously has plastic cover on both sides. I removed one side and applied the pad sort of as you would a screen protector (easy to end up with bubbles!). Once the pad is on the CPU, removing the plastic on the other side without ripping the actual pad off proved tricky. Will keep you posted. 

 

Is your pad Honeywell-branded BTW? 

[cylix]

Thx for the infos. Yes mine is Honeywell branded, got it from that china ebuy7.

[mido]

On 2/21/2023 at 8:43 PM, Etern4l said:

 

The pad is very thin and obviously has plastic cover on both sides. I removed one side and applied the pad sort of as you would a screen protector (easy to end up with bubbles!). Once the pad is on the CPU, removing the plastic on the other side without ripping the actual pad off proved tricky. Will keep you posted. 

 

Is your pad Honeywell-branded BTW? 

 

I did the same, but apparently the instructions tell you to put the pad in the fridge for 10 min so its easier to work with it.

[Etern4l]

39 minutes ago, mido said:

 

I did the same, but apparently the instructions tell you to put the pad in the fridge for 10 min so its easier to work with it.

 

Thanks, sounds like a great idea, I wish I came up with that. The pad itself was generic and came with no instructions at all. Still going strong after some 10 days, in fact seems like it's holding up really well.

[SapphiraTriX298]

I think I will have to get some for my next testing.

 

On NBR I was part of a bunch of separate individuals who were trying to find the identity of the strange paste on Lenovo Legion laptops that didn't come off well with alcohol, but someone beat everyone to the big reveal.

 

I suspect that the "curing" has more to do with the paste or pad getting up to temperature under pressure and melting, repeatedly, to ensure optimized spread/interface. Performance will not be good until that happens.

 

When I experimented with extremely thin applications of AS5 and their 'curing' requirement on bare Ivy Bridge dies, (many tubes were lost to bring me that information), that was my conclusion. Once appropriate spread was achieved there was essentially no change in temperature, and the absolute amount used was not relevant as it will get pushed out.

 

There also seems to be the component that the Honeywell performs better the higher the temperature which coincides with that theory, and why any tests at lower temperatures do not achieve the same results as other pastes (just another way in which w/mk does not translate directly to real world performance).

 

This also has the benefit of matching modern CPU tuning to boost to target temperature more aggressively and directly than with older generations.

 

I believe this or some variant, is also the stock thermal compound on at least the high end Nvidia 4000 series cards

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, SapphiraTriX298 said:

I suspect that the "curing" has more to do with the paste or pad getting up to temperature under pressure and melting, repeatedly, to ensure optimized spread/interface. Performance will not be good until that happens.

 

Exactly that, if I were to use the term "curing" to describe this process, it would have been for a lack of a better word. "Breaking in", or "melting in" would be another possible set of proxies here. The pad continues to perform exceptionally well, in fact I'm under the impression that the performance got better yet again.  

 

The question now is whether this is great just for CPUs operating in 80-100C range, or whether the benefits would extend to GPUs operating in 60-70ishC range. Anyone tried Honeywell application on a GPU?

[SapphiraTriX298]

As mentioned, I am pretty sure this is what Nvidia uses (or some variation) on at least their higher end Founders cards, as the longevity of the design would be superior to the minor gains of a liquid metal, and performance superior to that of traditional pastes/prints. 

 

It would likely take longer to settle at lower max temps, and have lesser performance until higher temps were reached. But if a GPU is performing as designed 'under' the acceptable thermal limit, then there is no difference (or added performance) between pastes, so the only benefit would be longevity.

 

Or put another way, if the cooler design is sufficient to keep the GPU below thermal limits regardless, let's say 85c in a desktop card, than any max temp between 70-80 should not make any real difference in end performance. (Yes other components' performance are affected by the heat also but we are simplifying for the example).

So the only thing that matters to the manufacturer at that point is endurance, hence phase change material TIMs.

 

For the laptop side where the cooler size/efficacy is a real limitation, pastes with superior thermal performance can make a 'real' difference. So you have both benefits there, and the minor superiority of liquid metal shines more prominently.

 

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, SapphiraTriX298 said:

Or put another way, if the cooler design is sufficient to keep the GPU below thermal limits regardless, let's say 85c in a desktop card, than any max temp between 70-80 should not make any real difference in end performance. (Yes other components' performance are affected by the heat also but we are simplifying for the example).

Modern GPUs start loose boost already below 40C and continue with boost drop steps up to thermal limits. This is a topic for bro @Mr. Fox @johnksss

[Etern4l]

12 hours ago, SapphiraTriX298 said:

As mentioned, I am pretty sure this is what Nvidia uses (or some variation) on at least their higher end Founders cards, as the longevity of the design would be superior to the minor gains of a liquid metal, and performance superior to that of traditional pastes/prints. 

 

It would likely take longer to settle at lower max temps, and have lesser performance until higher temps were reached. But if a GPU is performing as designed 'under' the acceptable thermal limit, then there is no difference (or added performance) between pastes, so the only benefit would be longevity.

 

Or put another way, if the cooler design is sufficient to keep the GPU below thermal limits regardless, let's say 85c in a desktop card, than any max temp between 70-80 should not make any real difference in end performance. (Yes other components' performance are affected by the heat also but we are simplifying for the example).

So the only thing that matters to the manufacturer at that point is endurance, hence phase change material TIMs.

 

For the laptop side where the cooler size/efficacy is a real limitation, pastes with superior thermal performance can make a 'real' difference. So you have both benefits there, and the minor superiority of liquid metal shines more prominently.

 

 

 

 A few points here:

* I'm not sure PTM7950 is worse than LM, at all - LTT review suggests it outperforms it (I haven't tried LM on IHS, and now I won't because I don't have to)

* PTM7950 is miles above than any other traditional paste I have tried (Phobya, SYY157, TFX, CryoFuze, Apex, MX6)

* As bro @Papusan mentioned GPUs downclock slightly, but there is also a longevity/endurance argument - for heavy action, I'd rather have the GPU run under 70C

Anyway, I don't have a need for any GPU repastes at the moment, but perhaps someone experimented with a GPU application on a laptop could shed some light on the matter.

[JeanLegi]

I tried 7950 PTM on CPU and GPU with the GE76 Raider 11UH with 3080 and use it on my RX 6900 XT with Alphacool Icewolf 2.

 

With 7950 PTM the 3080 from the GE76 temps are awesome and it runs now from time to time in the powerlimit but no longer in the temperature limit of 86°. There should be some values in this topic from me.

 

The GE76 has now a mainboard damage (not from me, first the camera was not operational and then the Lady shut off without any warning).

[Etern4l]

21 minutes ago, JeanLegi said:

I tried 7950 PTM on CPU and GPU with the GE76 Raider 11UH with 3080 and use it on my RX 6900 XT with Alphacool Icewolf 2.

 

With 7950 PTM the 3080 from the GE76 temps are awesome and it runs now from time to time in the powerlimit but no longer in the temperature limit of 86°. There should be some values in this topic from me.

 

The GE76 has now a mainboard damage (not from me, first the camera was not operational and then the Lady shut off without any warning).

 

Many thanks for the confirmatory data point. Sorry about the laptop. 

[kojack]

35 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

 A few points here:

* I'm not sure PTM7950 is worse than LM, at all - LTT review suggests it outperforms it (I haven't tried LM on IHS, and now I won't because I don't have to)

* PTM7950 is miles above than any other traditional paste I have tried (Phobya, SYY157, TFX, CryoFuze, Apex, MX6)

* As bro @Papusan mentioned GPUs downclock slightly, but there is also a longevity/endurance argument - for heavy action, I'd rather have the GPU run under 70C

Anyway, I don't have a need for any GPU repastes at the moment, but perhaps someone experimented with a GPU application on a laptop.

What about desktop GPUs?  Think a replace would help there? I have a 2070 super in my workstation that I never disassembled.  I am wondering if I put Noctua on that will it boost my speeds.  

[Etern4l]

4 minutes ago, kojack said:

What about desktop GPUs?  Think a replace would help there? I have a 2070 super in my workstation that I never disassembled.  I am wondering if I put Noctua on that will it boost my speeds.  

 

I would only do this if temps required it. Its quite possible has the GPU already has an excellent TIM on, possibly the phase change stuff. The GPU I repasted recently with CryoFuze gained nothing from the exercise at best. Today I wouldn't bother with a legacy thermal paste. 

[kojack]

41 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

I would only do this if temps required it. Its quite possible has the GPU already has an excellent TIM on, possibly the phase change stuff. The GPU I repasted recently with CryoFuze gained nothing from the exercise at best. Today I wouldn't bother with a legacy thermal paste. 

I shall leave it alone then!  I know my two CPU's gained when I replaced the crap stuff that came on them, my notebook moreso than my desktop for obvious reasons, but it's cool (pardon the pun), to know that gpu makers care about thermals!

[SapphiraTriX298]

9 hours ago, Papusan said:

Modern GPUs start loose boost already below 40C and continue with boost drop steps up to thermal limits. This is a topic for bro @Mr. Fox @johnksss

 

That is correct of course, but the question then becomes, even in an extreme case, does a GPU that can sustain 65c vs 70c matter?

It may be a slight statistical difference but is it enough of a difference to make a difference in the real world that is worth the time, expense, and effort? My experience and use case scenario says no. For others it may be yes. 

 

For those pushing more extreme performance than 60-70C may not be realistic or important as they as they are going to drive the power to its limit which may peak before thermal limit, etc etc.

[JeanLegi]

11 hours ago, kojack said:

What about desktop GPUs?  Think a replace would help there? I have a 2070 super in my workstation that I never disassembled.  I am wondering if I put Noctua on that will it boost my speeds.  

I replaced the original pad from AMD on my RX 6900 XT with 7950 PTM and had very low Hotspot temperature with air and with my Eiswolf 2 from alphacool.

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, SapphiraTriX298 said:

That is correct of course, but the question then becomes, even in an extreme case, does a GPU that can sustain 65c vs 70c matter?

It may be a slight statistical difference but is it enough of a difference to make a difference in the real world that is worth the time, expense, and effort? My experience and use case scenario says no. For others it may be yes. 

For those pushing more extreme performance than 60-70C may not be realistic or important as they as they are going to drive the power to its limit which may peak before thermal limit, etc etc.

Some prefer minimum noise without losing too much boost clocks. People are different so different needs 🙂

 

[Etern4l]

The noname PTM7950 from eBay failed after 2 weeks or so. I received another noname sheet from China, I might try that, otherwise I'm a bit out of ideas. I think I will just have to impose a power limit on the CPU. Many thanks to Intel for producing an uncoolable chip for occasional gaming use with an insuffcient IHS and based on crap 10nm process.

 

Actually, it's not clear, or even unlikely, that PTM7950 was the issue. Quite possibly the AIO failed, as repaste didn't help.

[Eban]

So...yeah. I just read through this post on Reddit because I couldn't believe the picture.

 

And I'm really not 100% sure I DONT want to try it and see what happens

Has anyone here actually done this and ready to share the details? One poster says his temps are down 10c-15c   ?!?!?

 

[Etern4l]

6 hours ago, Eban said:

So...yeah. I just read through this post on Reddit because I couldn't believe the picture.

 

And I'm really not 100% sure I DONT want to try it and see what happens

Has anyone here actually done this and ready to share the details? One poster says his temps are down 10c-15c   ?!?!?

 

 

I reckon the only temps the poster could have been referring to there were GPU. That only makes sense if the K5 Pro application failed as expected (low pressure/density), since less or no heat from VRAM would transfer to the heatsink which in turn would result in deceptively lower GPU temps. Then one day space invaders will arrive and the poster will wonder which planet they came from ;)

[Eban]

7 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

I reckon the only temps the poster could have been referring to there were GPU. That only makes sense if the K5 Pro application failed as expected (low pressure/density), since less or no heat from VRAM would transfer to the heatsink which in turn would result in deceptively lower GPU temps. Then one day space invaders will arrive and the poster will wonder which planet they came from ;)

Ok I reread the post. It was OP says his memory chip heat is down....

 

 

I think I'm a gonna try some of this K5 stuff on my Panasonic cf-31.....hot little bugger

[JeanLegi]

I used K5 Pro with my Asus G15 AE and it makes a good job but don't use to much of it. i removed the original paste and play a bit around with pads but changing back a few days later to paste and use K5 pro. it makes a real good job in my opinion and it is a good solution as replacement for pads in very thin gaming or non gaming notebooks/laptops. But not for cpu and gpu 😄

3 hours ago, Eban said:

Ok I reread the post. It was OP says his memory chip heat is down....

 

 

I think I'm a gonna try some of this K5 stuff on my Panasonic cf-31.....hot little bugger

 

[Papusan]

GELID Announces GC-4 Thermal Paste

PRESS RELEASE 

 

We are excited to introduce the GC-4 Thermal Paste, the ultimate solution for overheating issues in your electronic devices. Whether you're a gamer, a graphic designer, or just someone who uses their computer for long hours, you know how frustrating it is when your device starts to slow down due to overheating.

That's where the GC-4 Thermal Paste comes in. Our new formula is designed to provide superior heat conductivity and cooling performance, helping to reduce temperatures and prevent overheating. The GC-4 Thermal Paste provides excellent thermal conductivity and stability, ensuring your device stays cool even under heavy loads.

   

Read full story

[Etern4l]

51 minutes ago, Papusan said:

GELID Announces GC-4 Thermal Paste

PRESS RELEASE 

 

We are excited to introduce the GC-4 Thermal Paste, the ultimate solution for overheating issues in your electronic devices. Whether you're a gamer, a graphic designer, or just someone who uses their computer for long hours, you know how frustrating it is when your device starts to slow down due to overheating.

That's where the GC-4 Thermal Paste comes in. Our new formula is designed to provide superior heat conductivity and cooling performance, helping to reduce temperatures and prevent overheating. The GC-4 Thermal Paste provides excellent thermal conductivity and stability, ensuring your device stays cool even under heavy loads.

   

Read full story

 

"Today Gelid proudly introduces a phase-change TIM you don't have to buy from ebuy7". Oh wait....

 

 

  

12 hours ago, Eban said:

Ok I reread the post. It was OP says his memory chip heat is down....

 

 

I think I'm a gonna try some of this K5 stuff on my Panasonic cf-31.....hot little bugger

 

Fair enough, I didn't realise laptop report VRAM temps now...