Precision 7670 & 7770 pre-release discussion (Alder Lake)

[Aaron44126]

31 minutes ago, Redrider said:

I took into question the size of the power brick and the total watts of both CPU and GPU. I questioned  how they were to get power to both units. My guess was to limit something but the CPU is now also limited by the overheating of the cores.  Even if a solution to the cooling system system is resolved then it goes back to the power delivery. I'm no hardware engineer but I think the engineering at Dell pooched this.

 

I think it's a matter of expectations, really.  NVIDIA and Intel are both pushing power limits higher and higher.  These days, CPUs in particular are pretty much designed to overheat, for a temporary boost of speed that is not meant to be sustained.  You can't expect a laptop of this size to be able to fully power the CPU and GPU at the same time when they both want 150W.

 

As long as you are OK with the limitations, it could still be a good buy.

 

Still a bit sad that people who aren't paying attention won't know that the "same" CPU/GPU isn't going to get the same performance between systems.  The difference between Precision 7670 and 7770 could even be noticeable (especially looking at 7670 "thin chassis").  There should be better labeling/marketing to make it clear how much performance to expect, showing expected sustained power levels or something, so that you can compare between systems more easily.

[Redrider]

13 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

I think it's a matter of expectations, really.  NVIDIA and Intel are both pushing power limits higher and higher.  These days, CPUs in particular are pretty much designed to overheat, for a temporary boost of speed that is not meant to be sustained.  You can't expect a laptop of this size to be able to fully power the CPU and GPU at the same time when they both want 150W.

 

As long as you are OK with the limitations, it could still be a good buy.

 

Still a bit sad that people who aren't paying attention won't know that the "same" CPU/GPU isn't going to get the same performance between systems.  The difference between Precision 7670 and 7770 could even be noticeable (especially looking at 7670 "thin chassis").  There should be better labeling/marketing to make it clear how much performance to expect, showing expected sustained power levels or something, so that you can compare between systems more easily.

True. I was expecting a bit more. But for what I use the laptop for its more than enough. This will be the last laptop purchase for me. I just want the best I can get and not regret it when next years models come out. I can wait on this purchase to see others views on it. Congrats on getting your.

[samatsu]

Do the Dell Precision 7770/7670  have advanced optimus (ie the nvidia GPU dynamic switch outputs to the dGPU or IGP)?

[Aaron44126]

26 minutes ago, samatsu said:

Do the Dell Precision 7770/7670  have advanced optimus (ie the nvidia GPU dynamic switch outputs to the dGPU or IGP)?

 

Nope, Advanced Optimus is not supported.

[samatsu]

Dell Precision 7670 unboxing shared by someone from Taiwan.

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=236&t=6645469

[Aaron44126]

40 minutes ago, samatsu said:

Dell Precision 7670 unboxing shared by someone from Taiwan.

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=236&t=6645469

 

Wish they had left the NVMe heatsinks on in one of the photos, but you can see the M.2 2230 drive with "extender" adapter.

 

Also there was some discussion over the "deformity" in my 7770 heatsink, it looks like some of the heatpipes are bent or "raised up" as they go by the dGPU.  (They don't look that way in the service manual.)  The Chinese review 7770 has the same thing.  It also appears that there is something similar going on here with the 7670.  Maybe it is "normal" after all.  Though the "bend" in these doesn't seem quite as extreme as the 7770 examples.

 

 

 

For reference, 7770 heatpipe.

Spoiler

Bent?:

 

Not so bent:

 

————

 

Also, while I'm at it, I'll note on my display panel replacement...

I got word yesterday that display panel was shipped to the local depot, so it should have been installed today.  But, I got a note today saying that they don't have a tech available in my area so I'll have to wait another 1-2 business days.  (I get that there are multiple complicating factors, including me not being available the first time they wanted to do the appointment... but now we are looking at 23 days for "next day service", if they get to it on Monday.  What if this had been something that more impacted daily use of the system?)

[samatsu]

Seems there are redesign of the vapor chamber for the Precision 7670 !

[samatsu]

3 minutes ago, samatsu said:

Seems there are redesign of the vapor chamber for the Precision 7670 !

The Pictured above is a Dell precision 7670.
Below shows the Dell precision 7770.

[Aaron44126]

Yeah, I noticed a bit after posting that the heatsink photo from the "unboxing" doesn't match the photo from the service manual.  I thought that maybe it was the non-dGPU version, but this guy has a GeForce RTX 3080 Ti.

 

Spoiler

Service manual iGPU 7670 heatsink.

 

Service manual dGPU 7670 heatsink.

 

...Actual heatsink from a 7670 system.

 

[LegacyZero]

 

 

[Redrider]

LOL I mentioned on a Dell Youtube advertisement  the problems with the 7770. My post was removed and I was banned. A lot of perspective buyers started asking links to this when the banned happened.

I'm a photographer on the side and with Canon you can say whats on your mind with out this happening.

Canon has a patent for magnetic cooling. One of the cameras just flat out over heats so hot that the CF card will burn you when removed and at times the camera will shut down. People complained about this and Canon listened. Could this be a solution for CPU and GPU?

 

[samatsu]

Unboxing shared from China.

Maybe the DELL Precision 7670 start to shipping, but I'm still waiting!

https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/556135900

[Frosty]

I placed an order for a Precision 7770 a few days ago with an expected ship date that's almost two months out.  Because of the delay, and some signs of disgruntledness toward the 7770 on this and other forums I'm beginning to wonder if a decked-out XPS 17 wouldn't be an acceptable alternative.

I'm a full-time photographer and occasional videographer that uses Adobe Lightroom heavily to process hundreds of photos every day.  Any improvement in editing and exporting times in Lightroom multiply quickly with my work.  I currently have a Precision 7730 with 64 GB RAM and 4 internal drives (1-2 TB each), totalling 6 TB.  The multiple drive slots were a large part of why I picked a 7730, since I need a lot of internal storage.  I see that the new XPS 17 is available with a 4 TB drive, which might be enough for me to work with, and is available within a couple of weeks.

On the pros side for the XPS 17:

- available much sooner
- the high-end configuration is over $1000 cheaper than the 7770 configuration I picked
- touch screen was occasionally handy when I had an XPS 15
- looks much more svelte (though I don't really care about that)

 On the cons for the XPS 17:

- less expandable
- fewer drive slots

Any thoughts on an XPS 17 vs 7770 for my usage would be appreciated.

[Aaron44126]

4 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Any thoughts on an XPS 17 vs 7770 for my usage would be appreciated.

 

Comes down to what you need.  XPS 17 / Precision 5770 does have two drive slots.  If you are good with 8TB total storage / 64GB RAM / a-bit-less-powerful NVIDIA dGPU, then you will probably be fine with one of these systems.  (If you plan to install a high-capacity aftermarket SSD, you'll want to make sure that you get one that is not "double-sided".  A number of 4TB drives and all 8TB drives currently available are double-sided and likely won't fit in this system.)

 

To me, the main downside would be a less powerful dGPU, but depending on what you use it for, that might not matter at all.  There's also no ability to output directly from the dGPU — everything has to go through the Intel GPU with graphics switching (Optimus), AFAIK.

 

A less capable cooling system means that the CPU performance won't be quite as fast as what you could get in a thicker system.

 

Oh, and the keyboard.  No numeric keypad is really a dealbreaker to me.

 

Otherwise, it would be a great system, I'm sure.  The 16:10 display is actually a draw; a bit more working space without a bigger footprint.

 

If you do get the Precision 7770, you'll probably be waiting a while for it.  I'm hopeful that the issues with the Precision 7770 will be worked out in time, one way or another, but that is potentially even more time/hassle to deal with.

 

————

 

Once again, no tech available to install my 7770 replacement display panel today.  Maybe tomorrow...

[LegacyZero]

They haven't updated the ETA on my order but the representative sent me this email...

[LegacyZero]

DELL: Let's launch a product with multiple parts not available....

 

Very frustrating, I really want it but I need a laptop in a few weeks. I'm going to have to search for alternatives just in case.

 

[TwistedAndy]

14 hours ago, Frosty said:

I placed an order for a Precision 7770 a few days ago with an expected ship date that's almost two months out.  Because of the delay, and some signs of disgruntledness toward the 7770 on this and other forums I'm beginning to wonder if a decked-out XPS 17 wouldn't be an acceptable alternative.

I'm a full-time photographer and occasional videographer that uses Adobe Lightroom heavily to process hundreds of photos every day.  Any improvement in editing and exporting times in Lightroom multiply quickly with my work.  I currently have a Precision 7730 with 64 GB RAM and 4 internal drives (1-2 TB each), totalling 6 TB.  The multiple drive slots were a large part of why I picked a 7730, since I need a lot of internal storage.  I see that the new XPS 17 is available with a 4 TB drive, which might be enough for me to work with, and is available within a couple of weeks.

On the pros side for the XPS 17:

- available much sooner
- the high-end configuration is over $1000 cheaper than the 7770 configuration I picked
- touch screen was occasionally handy when I had an XPS 15
- looks much more svelte (though I don't really care about that)

 On the cons for the XPS 17:

- less expandable
- fewer drive slots

Any thoughts on an XPS 17 vs 7770 for my usage would be appreciated.

 

I have been using the Dell XPS 17 9720 with Core i9 12900HK, GeForce RTX 3060, and FHD screen for about 1.5 months. Here are some notes:

- Noise. I've measured 38±1.5 dBA on the 40cm distance under sustained CB R23 MT load with in the Optimized power mode. Under regular office work it is silent (noise level less than 30-32dBA ambient noise in my office)

- Performance. I get ~18200 after first round and ~14500 CB R23 MT score sustained with 45W CPU package power and slight UV (-0.115V). Sustained performance on battery is nearly the same

- Battery life. I get 8-12 hours during the browsing with 30% brightness and 30 tabs open in two browsers, Slack, IDE, etc.. Configurations with the 4K screen will run a few hours less. I use my device mostly at home, so I don't care too much about that

- Dimensions and weight. My device is pretty light (~2.15kg). Options with the 4K screen are heavier (~2.4kg). In terms of dimensions it's comparable with many 15.6-16.0" devices. I'm using a bag for 15.6" laptops to carry my device

- Ports. I really like an opportunity to charge the device from any port, but I miss the regular USB A ports.

You can find more details in my other post.

Previously I considered purchasing Precision 7670, but decided to go with XPS 17 once I saw the cooling system in 7670 in the service guide.

At low power levels (<70W) the performance difference between 6+8 H and 8+8 HX CPUs is minimal. At higher power levels the fan noise will be not compatible with the long term work. Even with thick chassis, vapor chambers and liquid metal it is hard to keep the noise acceptable (<42 dBA) at 70W+ power levels (see Lenovo Legion 7 and some Asus devices).

This task is almost impossible if you have only two heat pipes and relatively small fans (as we have in 7670/7770). Yes, there are some tricks like dual fan output, but the power levels...

[FabeFromBOD]

On 8/15/2022 at 9:07 PM, FabeFromBOD said:

 

The bad news has just fallen... 😭😭😭😭

 

 

Just received the reason why :

 

Your order is in pre-production and awaiting restocking of component: ASSY,DOOR,BTM,W/SC+SSD,ODM,777

 

it's hardly believable 🤬
 

[win32asmguy]

18 minutes ago, FabeFromBOD said:

 

Just received the reason why :

 

Your order is in pre-production and awaiting restocking of component: ASSY,DOOR,BTM,W/SC+SSD,ODM,777

 

it's hardly believable 🤬
 

Hmmm. Maybe they had a bad batch of bottom panels produced and they had to have their supplier run a new production of corrected versions. It could explain why almost every 7770/7670 has not entered production yet.

[operator]

39 minutes ago, FabeFromBOD said:

Your order is in pre-production and awaiting restocking of component: ASSY,DOOR,BTM,W/SC+SSD,ODM,777

 

Same here .... Strange that a single part is causing so big delays even for so a long period for people like me, ordered on first day while the china guy already received his 7670 with the SSD door ....and he ordered 1 week after me.  😬

[Aaron44126]

14 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

Hmmm. Maybe they had a bad batch of bottom panels produced and they had to have their supplier run a new production of corrected versions. It could explain why almost every 7770/7670 has not entered production yet.

 

I got the one with no SSD door.  That part has been circulating on Taobao/eBay since February.  😕

(@win32asmguy, did you get the SSD door on yours?)

 

6 minutes ago, operator said:

Same here .... Strange that a single part is causing so big delays even for so a long period for people like me, ordered on first day while the china guy already received his 7670 with the SSD door .... 😬

 

Who knows how long that guy has been waiting...

 

[Edit]

Actually the 7670 bottom panel that showed up on Taobao did have an SSD door.  It's still there.  Looks like a SmartCard version as well but not sure if it is thin or performance chassis.

 

—————

I have a 10a-2p appointment to have my display panel replaced, finally.

[operator]

2 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

Who knows how long that guy has been waiting...

 

On his order screen you can see he ordered 1 week after me and it proceeded very well.

1 month from ordered to received.

 

[Aaron44126]

1 minute ago, operator said:

On his order screen you can see he ordered 1 week after me and it proceeded very well.

1 month from ordered to received.

 

Well then, boo.

[win32asmguy]

2 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

I got the one with no SSD door.  That part has been circulating on Taobao/eBay since February.  😕

(@win32asmguy, did you get the SSD door on yours?)

No SSD door on mine. But it is in production now. Maybe the bottom panels on Taobao/eBay were from a different production run or something, it is hard to even say if the fitment is correct without trying one.

[Aaron44126]

Following rumors from the past couple of weeks, Samsung announced the 990 Pro SSD just now.  Available in October, with capacity up to 2TB.

 

It is a PCIe4 drive, not PCIe5.

 

$179 for 1TB

$309 for 2TB

(More expensive than the prior models...  I feel like Samsung usually makes the new model cheaper, at least if they are not moving to a better interface.)

A 4TB model will be available next year.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/24/23319258/samsung-990-pro-ssd-speeds-heatsink-ps5

 

(Shame that I just bought the 980 Pro for this laptop, but, I think I'll be fine to stick with it rather than upgrade.)