State of the socket - are there any 2022 laptops with socketed CPU and GPU?

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

I like they gave the CPU a full 4 post mounting but even looking at their past 15.6" designs for desktop CPUs for both Intel and AMD I have no idea how this was their final boss heatsink especially looking at that early prototype.

 

Here's hoping Aliexpress has a good aftermarket design like those that have shown up for the X170, P870 and P77X series.

 

 

 

Clevo went from an at least decent cooling solution to that silly attempt to cool the mighty Alder Lake CPU's? Looks like some other manufacturer has infiltrated Clevo and changed their designs in order to make them look like a laughing stock - in any case mission accomplished with this kind of design.

 

The whole idea to not have a unified heat sink is also a complete fail these days with both CPU and GPU sometimes needing a lot of power and with total cooling and heat dissipation capacity being limited.

[win32asmguy]

6 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

BGA issues aside....

 

My issue is looking at the prototype for this at the trade show versus the final product is a slap in the face in regards to the heatsink. The original heatsink shown was much beefier for the CPU. Whoever decided to go from this:

 

 

To this:

 

 

Needs to be evaluated.....unless it is a bean counter then we know why.

 

Who in their right mind evaluated the 12th gen performance and heat generation and decided this was an acceptable solution is mind boggling.

 

 

 

Different machines. The XMG was the B550 AMD + BGA 3070 model which does indeed have the heatsink pictured. It also has no iGPU support so all display outputs are wired to the 3070 which is a superior config. It is not like any of these machines are winning awards for battery life.

[Mr. Fox]

Maybe it is another one of those nefarious and cockamamie treehugger ideas for all laptops to become such worthless trash that everyone will become so frustrated with the garbage they will switch to using smartphones exclusively to conserve energy. Kind of like the Orwellian approach of implementing extremely stupid and idiotic ideas and deliberately doing bad things that are against the best interests of society in order to cause the price of gasoline and diesel fuel to become so expensive that everyone will magically accept electric cars.

[electrosoft]

31 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

Different machines. The XMG was the B550 AMD + BGA 3070 model which does indeed have the heatsink pictured. It also has no iGPU support so all display outputs are wired to the 3070 which is a superior config. It is not like any of these machines are winning awards for battery life.

 

It makes you wonder why they would regress from such a nice, beefy heatsink in the 15.6" AMD DTR to what was the final product for ADL? Even 12600's can run hot in there.

 

 

[Hertzian56]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Maybe it is another one of those nefarious and cockamamie treehugger ideas for all laptops to become such worthless trash that everyone will become so frustrated with the garbage they will switch to using smartphones exclusively to conserve energy. Kind of like the Orwellian approach of implementing extremely stupid and idiotic ideas and deliberately doing bad things that are against the best interests of society in order to cause the price of gasoline and diesel fuel to become so expensive that everyone will magically accept electric cars.

Burning the candle at both ends to get to the creamy center lol but it's deliberate no doubt. I'm not sure how people in apartments are supposed to utilize them, they overwhelmingly don't have the charging setup and who would pay for it. I know cars are way expensive for a long time but I'm guessing electrics are even more costly with limited third party used stock when compared to ICEs. Around town and regional paved road trips seem fine but everything else seems a hassle to me. CA and other states are trying to ban new ICEs by 2030.

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

It makes you wonder why they would regress from such a nice, beefy heatsink in the 15.6" AMD DTR to what was the final product for ADL? Even 12600's can run hot in there.

These days supporting dynamic boost as a feature is an almost guarantee of a GPU biased heatsink. The CPU cooling is an afterthought. I would love it if a manufacturer would move to non unified designs with known sustained limits. The extra TDP Nvidia dangles like a carrot on a stick is not worth it.

[Mr. Fox]

Everything is made for gutless wusses now. It wasn't that long ago that I experienced the joy of exhausting the capacity of my dual 330 watt AC adapter setups and craving more. It's all garbage now, made by sissy-boy idiots for those gutless wusses. It amazes me that people are willing to spend their money on castrated trashbooks. That takes some serious brain damage. The bar has never been set lower than it is now. It's a small miracle that most of this trash will even function as marginally as it does.

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Everything is made for gutless wusses now. It wasn't that long ago that I experienced the joy of exhausting the capacity of my dual 330 watt AC adapter setups and craving more. It's all garbage now, made by sissy-boy idiots for those gutless wusses. It amazes me that people are willing to spend their money on castrated trashbooks. That takes some serious brain damage. The bar has never been set lower than it is now. It's a small miracle that most of this trash will even function as marginally as it does.

 

If somebody wants to do some serious number crunching these days and / or take his office / gaming on the road then he will unfortunately fare better with some BGA workstation or gaming laptop than with the above Clevo LGA model. Another case of "we made LGA so bad that finally nobody will want it any more".

 

For gaming only and not much traveling by plane the X170 is still a great solution but the X170 is really not so great as on board luggage due to its weight and short battery life - almost impossible to stay at or below 10 kgs when you are bringing one of those 🙂

 

 

[Clamibot]

26 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

 

If somebody wants to do some serious number crunching these days and / or take his office / gaming on the road then he will unfortunately fare better with some BGA workstation or gaming laptop than with the above Clevo LGA model. Another case of "we made LGA so bad that finally nobody will want it any more".

 

For gaming only and not much traveling by plane the X170 is still a great solution but the X170 is really not so great as on board luggage due to its weight and short battery life - almost impossible to stay at or below 10 kgs when you are bringing one of those 🙂

 

 

 

I happily gamed on 17 inch laptops during flights. Everyone looked at me like I was crazy, but I really didn't care 🤣. The tray on the seat in front of me is smaller than the laptop, but it holds the laptop fine. I use the palmrest as a mousepad.

 

This setup definitely gets uncomfortable after a while, but for a few hours, it's ok. I'm very glad I don't fly much because I know I'd rather be uncomfortable and having fun than not playing video games at all but being comfortable. Gaming would take priority over comfort for me.

[jaybee83]

11 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

It makes you wonder why they would regress from such a nice, beefy heatsink in the 15.6" AMD DTR to what was the final product for ADL? Even 12600's can run hot in there.

 

 

because they thought that Intel is much more efficient than AMD LOL

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

I happily gamed on 17 inch laptops during flights. Everyone looked at me like I was crazy, but I really didn't care 🤣. The tray on the seat in front of me is smaller than the laptop, but it holds the laptop fine. I use the palmrest as a mousepad.

 

This setup definitely gets uncomfortable after a while, but for a few hours, it's ok. I'm very glad I don't fly much because I know I'd rather be uncomfortable and having fun than not playing video games at all but being comfortable. Gaming would take priority over comfort for me.

 

Last time I was on a flight with my 17.3" laptop it unfortunately was too wide and too deep to fit on the puny tray that comes down from the seat in front of me.

Had to make do with some reading instead but then when I arrived at my destination it was DTR goodness which is what counts 🙂

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

I traveled for years with 17 and 18 inch beasts and an employer-provided laptop and other gear. I loved every minute of it. I would not have wanted it any other way. Was never a problem and totally worth it. Anybody that is so addicted to playing games that can't last through a flight in coach seating and cannot wait however long it takes to reach their hotel room has issues that require professional assistance. A thin and light piece of crap suitable for gaming in such terribly cramped quarters is only going to mask their problem while it festers without getting the professional help that it deserves.

[Papusan]

On 6/12/2022 at 5:15 PM, electrosoft said:

My issue is looking at the prototype for this at the trade show versus the final product is a slap in the face in regards to the heatsink. The original heatsink shown was much beefier for the CPU. Whoever decided to go from this:

Because they engineered the the prototype of the HS wrong. All OEMs nowadays put most work in the Gpu cooling so so the fantastic dynamic boost feature can work optimal. No need for good enough Cpu cooling in in todays new modern gaming books (sarcasm). The OEM will in any case cripple down Cpu power to help the Gpu to boost up clocks within the limited power budget/cooling capacity, so

 

If they have scrapped the 2.5" slot they could have created an bigger Cpu grill/fan and added more pipes for the Cpu cooling. But clevo is mainly for the Asian market. Aka people over there cut costs and add in bigger capacity cheap old spinning drives.

 

The whole machine is engineered/designed very bad. 2.5" slots should be scrapped first if you lack space for needed HW in chassis for new modern laptops. They simply take too much needed space.

[aldarxt]

I think previous threads on this forum about MXM is dead is correct. All this thin and light obsession by all the manufacturers has an underlying

goal. It seems like a race to get thinner and lighter, throwing out to the public experiments to work out the bugs and profit at the same time. Once they get enough bugs out and the lightest most powerful design comes to the top all they have to do is add legs and the laptop can follow our phones on an electronic leash. This is the only thing make any sence to me. To give up on the MXM tech so abruptly and come out with backwards technology, reading about it everyday here on this forum, to see the confusion and disappointment leads me to believe we are the experiment to work out their bugs to move on to the robots. Just add legs to a laptop and its a robot

[Mr. Fox]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:18 PM, aldarxt said:

I think previous threads on this forum about MXM is dead is correct. All this thin and light obsession by all the manufacturers has an underlying

goal. It seems like a race to get thinner and lighter, throwing out to the public experiments to work out the bugs and profit at the same time. Once they get enough bugs out and the lightest most powerful design comes to the top all they have to do is add legs and the laptop can follow our phones on an electronic leash. This is the only thing make any sence to me. To give up on the MXM tech so abruptly and come out with backwards technology, reading about it everyday here on this forum, to see the confusion and disappointment leads me to believe we are the experiment to work out their bugs to move on to the robots. Just add legs to a laptop and its a robot

This is attractive to OEMs because it greatly enhances their abilities in terms of planned obsolescence and revenue generation. There is no easier way to ensure repeat sales than to make everything available for purchase a disposable piece of garbage that is unrepairable and upgrade resistant. 

[1610ftw]

10 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

This is attractive to OEMs because it greatly enhances their abilities in terms of planned obsolescence and revenue generation. There is no easier way to ensure repeat sales than to make everything available for purchase a disposable piece of garbage that is unrepairable and upgrade resistant. 

 

The funny thing is even when these can be repaired you have to figure in the cost of a motherboard, a high end CPU and a GPU when anything breaks!

That is of course extremely costly and will turn the best of today into a candidate for the electronics dumpster once it breaks out of warranty.

 

As we are so swamped with all kinds of regulations everywhere why isn't there a law that forbids to charge the price for a GPU, a CPU AND a motherboard when only one of the three breaks? I have to laugh when these days great upgradability means that I am still allowed to swap my RAM, battery or m2 SSDs and that's it.

 

 

[1610ftw]

One more thought about the future: I think that two big issue with socketing as of late have been an insufficient performance differential on the GPU side and of course the non-existing upgrade path.

 

We would need a new platform that when designed well can consume up to at least 500W and preferably more and the GPU would have to be a new design that isn't limited to 200W any more but instead it has to go up to 400W even if that is not used immediately. Add in a big unified vapor chamber heatsink and make it possible to use any combination of power consumption for gaming and numbers crunching and for top end models this would have to mean a meaningful increase above all the BGA books so 350W combined power envelope for CPU and GPU would be a minimum and something like 400 or 450W would be much better and nothing that hasn't been achieved before.

 

With that kind of power we could also go back to the times when a DTR can really offer superior performance AND modularity AND upgradability.

Even freaks like us do not really appreciate to just have something heavier with no proper upgrade path like it is the case with the current X170 from Clevo.

Yes, modularity is nice for repairs but who will want to keep his X170 around for that long when there is nothing that it can be upgraded with?

 

All of that effort for an at the time not so big performance increase is not that exciting but surpassing BGA books by a bigger margin while allowing new generations of GPU and CPU to be incorporated would be a lot more fun.

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

I have to laugh when these days great upgradability means that I am still allowed to swap my RAM, battery or m2 SSDs and that's it.

That is what happens when 99 out of 100 people buying laptops, maybe 999 out of 1000, lack the technical knowledge or skill to do that, and an even smaller number have the mental capacity to comprehend why it matters. Being an idiot is the norm today.

[1610ftw]

For some laughs:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Predator-Triton-500-SE-Without-the-ability-to-upgrade-it-a-gaming-laptop-is-only-half-as-good.627577.0.html

 

I think they have to seriously re-evaluate their definition of upgradable...

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

57 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

For some laughs:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Predator-Triton-500-SE-Without-the-ability-to-upgrade-it-a-gaming-laptop-is-only-half-as-good.627577.0.html

 

I think they have to seriously re-evaluate their definition of upgradable...

 

 

As long as so-called self-anointed "experts" have a defective view of what goodness looks like we can expect the retarded masses to have a defective view. Sheeple follow shepherd's that lead from behind. Their flock represent the lowest common denominators of the human race. It is a big flock and having possession of what used to be average intelligence qualifies one as being elite, superior and extraordinary.

[Papusan]

8 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

For some laughs:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Predator-Triton-500-SE-Without-the-ability-to-upgrade-it-a-gaming-laptop-is-only-half-as-good.627577.0.html

 

I think they have to seriously re-evaluate their definition of upgradable...

 

 

They still give it a value of 87% in their review. And people look at the high score and jump on it. Reviewers should stop give high value rating for pure junk. If they have rated this mess with the more correct sub 50% then I expect Acer won't make any profits from their trashbooks. They would burn in with a lot unsold units. 

[KING19]

11 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

For some laughs:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Predator-Triton-500-SE-Without-the-ability-to-upgrade-it-a-gaming-laptop-is-only-half-as-good.627577.0.html

 

I think they have to seriously re-evaluate their definition of upgradable...

 

 

 

I posted about this laptop in my thread but again this is worst than a soldiered CPU/GPU because it make upgradeability very difficult to do because you would have to remove the motherboard to do so. Thin and light gaming laptops are already bad enough but add inverted motherboards to that with soldiered components and you're pretty much screwed.

[Mr. Fox]

It is humorous to see impressive sounding names applied to such unimpressive products. "Predator" and "Zephyrus" and "Titan" immediately come to mind, but there are other examples. They should have more fitting names like "Prey" and "Milktoast" or "Space Heater" instead based on their specifications, performance and user experience. In the end they're all going to be worthy of titles such as "door stop" and "paper weight" LOL. With insanely expensive CPU/GPU/mobo integration and nothing within financial or practical reason being worthy of repairs or upgrades, they're all disposable one-shot wonders that overheat, thermal throttle and ultimately represent an extrordinarly foolish cash expenditure.

[1610ftw]

12 hours ago, Papusan said:

They still give it a value of 87% in their review. And people look at the high score and jump on it. Reviewers should stop give high value rating for pure junk. If they have rated this mess with the more correct sub 50% then I expect Acer won't make any profits from their trashbooks. They would burn in with a lot unsold units. 

 

I don't really blame them for not deducting that many points but not having upgradability or servicability as a criteria that will influence the final rating is completely ridiculous.

For this Acer I would probably go with an upgradability rating of something like 10% at most for being able to clean the fans and changing the battery - after all there are laptops where not even that is possible for the end user!

 

But hey, let's give some big points for the camera that most people uninstall these days - much more important than being able to open up and service / upgrade your laptop...

[1610ftw]

11 hours ago, KING19 said:

 

I posted about this laptop in my thread but again this is worst than a soldiered CPU/GPU because it make upgradeability very difficult to do because you would have to remove the motherboard to do so. Thin and light gaming laptops are already bad enough but add inverted motherboards to that with soldiered components and you're pretty much screwed.

Who needs a non-inverted motherboard when all is soldered on anyway....

 

Here is what one can do with the Clevo X170 or rather what I did so far:

 

swap battery in an out without even opening it

installed CPU

installed and deinstalled RAM

took out the keyboard

installed and uninstalled SSDs

installed a network card

cleaned its fans

 

I could also have swapped the GPU if I had wanted or needed to do that - no need to buy a new laptop as it is soldered in like I would have to do with EVERY SINGLE laptop of the current generation.

 

This is how servicability is supposed to be and apart from the idiotic cables for the RGB and the slightly flimsy posterior cover it wasn't too difficult to do all of this on the X170.

 

Same for the mighty P870 where everything is similarly simple except for the battery that cannot be accessed that easily.