Dell Precision 7670 & Dell Precision 7770 owner's thread

[Aaron44126]

• Announced: April 19, 2022
• Release date (RTO): July 7, 2022
• 12th gen Alder Lake CPUs
• NVIDIA Ampere refresh GPUs, up to RTX A5500
  • GeForce RTX 3080 Ti option also available (through sales rep only in most territories)
• Up to 128 GB DDR5 non-ECC memory (via CAMM module), or 64 GB DDR5 ECC or non-ECC (via SODIMM)
• All NVMe slots support PCIe4
• Full driver support for Windows 10 & Windows 11

Spec sheet: Precision 7670 • Precision 7770

Driver RSS feeds: Precision 7670 • Precision 7770

 

Pre-release thread (NBT)

Pre-release thread (NBR)

 

————————————————————————

 

Opportunities for CPU performance improvement

Here, I am collecting some information from the first several pages of this thread to hopefully make it easier to find in one spot.

 

NOTE — BIOS update version 1.8.0 has corrected these values.  A manual fix for IA AC/DC loadline is not needed anymore; just update the BIOS.  (You still may want to unlock undervolting, though...)

1. If you received a Precision 7770 with the heatsink that contains Delta fans, have Dell replace the heatsink and hopefully you get the one with Sunon fans, which performs better.  (Unfortunately, you must remove the heatsink to check and see which fans you have.)  See this post by @MyPC8MyBrain for suggestions for reinstalling the heatsink.
2. The original Delta fan heatsink will thermal throttle out of the box.  Repasting can eliminate the thermal throttle, so that you can use ThrottleStop to raise PL2 and increase performance of the CPU.
3. Perhaps the biggest CPU performance gain that can be had is by fixing the IA AC/DC loadline values, which are set incorrectly on this system.  Visit this guide and look at steps 5-7 for directions on how to get to an environment where you can edit some EFI variables.  These commands will correct the IA AC/DC loadline values (thanks @win32asmguy).  I got a ≈20% boost in the 10-minute Cinebench score from fixing these...

   setup_var CpuSetup 0x132 0xAA # set IA AC LoadLine LSB to 170 (1.7mOhms)
   setup_var CpuSetup 0x133 0x0  # set IA AC LoadLine MSB to 0

   And these commands will enable overclocking/undervolting, if you wish to mess with that:

   setup_var CpuSetup 0x10E 0x0   # Overclocking Unlock
   setup_var CpuSetup 0x43 0x0    # CFG Unlock

4. Additional tuning with ThrottleStop (undervolting, etc.) can further improve performance.  @MyPC8MyBrain has some settings in this post.

 

————————————————————————

 

Opportunities for GPU performance improvement

The GPU power level can be increased by following these steps.  This process has been confirmed to work with MSI Afterburner 4.6.5 beta 2, NVIDIA graphics driver 527.56, and Dell's 1.8.0 BIOS.  It may work with other (newer) versions as well.

1. Download a GeForce GPU driver from NVIDIA.  (Visit this page and select GeForce 3080 Ti laptop GPU, and download a current driver.  You can install a GeForce driver even if you have a pro RTX GPU.)
   • A GeForce driver is required; the Enterprise drivers will not allow you to change the GPU's power limit.
2. In Device Manager, disable "NVIDIA Platform Controllers and Framework" under "Software devices".
   • Alternatively, you can visit "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\nvpcf" in the registry and set "Start" to 4.  This will effectively disable the NVIDIA Platform Controllers and Framework driver but not have it appear disabled in Device Manager.  Reboot to apply the change.
3. Install MSI Afterburner.
4. In MSI Afterburner, locate the setting for the power limit.  It may have a nonsense value.  Drag the slider down to 1% and then up to max, and apply the changes.
5. The NVIDIA GPU should now be able to operate at a higher power level.

Thanks to @win32asmguy for figuring this out!

[Aaron44126]

My system specs

• Core i9-12950HX
• 128GB DDR5-3600 CAMM module
• GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB
• 4K 120Hz display panel

 

Impressions

 

Positive

• Good build quality, as expected, the system is very solid.
• The display is a tremendous upgrade from the M6700.  120Hz makes some regular desktop stuff noticeably more slick/smooth.  The colors pop a lot more as well (though I wouldn't say color is any better than the 4K panel in the 7560).  It's brighter as well.  I always kept my M6700 panel at max brightness, but with this one I can be happy at about 80% brightness.
  • Variable refresh rate support from the 4K 120Hz panel is an unexpected plus.
• Coming from the Precision M6700, performance is very much improved as one would expect; things that my M6700 struggled with "just work" on the 7770.  (I know there were a few other members in the pre-release thread looking to upgrade from older systems.)
• I like having a mix of USB-C and USB-A on both sides of the system.
• Zero stability issues so far.  Everything just works.
• 8TB NVMe drives appear to work fine despite not being "supported" by Dell.
• They have redesigned the NVMe slot that goes under the "SSD door" compared to the Precision 7560.  (Even though I do not actually have an SSD door, I am referring to the one in the middle of the system.)  I was able to swap out the drive without having to mess with that plastic caddy/holder thing.

Meh

• ...That keyboard layout...  Dedicated Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys should be a basic requirement for a pro laptop.  😕
  • Also bummed that replacing the keyboard now requires pretty much a complete system disassembly.  I hope that it lasts well...
• Fan behavior is similar to the 7560, but there is an unfortunate change.  I can't hear when my 7560 fans switch from "off" to "on" (low speed).  When the 7770 fans kick on, they rev up to a high level before quickly settling back down to silent.  It's very quick, less than a second, but you can definitely hear it.  When I have a light workload going (turbo boost disabled) the fans hang out around 1000-1400 RPM, pretty much inaudible.
• The Ethernet jack is very tight, unlike the similar "jaw"-type connector on the Precision 7560, I had some difficulty unplugging a cable here a few times and have learned that you have to sort of lift the cable "up" as you try to take it out.  (Maybe it will loosen up with use.  That's often the case with the Precision ports.)
• Also, the bottom cover is much more difficult to remove than it is for me on the Precision 7560.  On the 7560, I can pry from the SmartCard slot with just my hands, but with the 7770, I have to use a flathead screwdriver to carefully pry around the system (also starting from the SmartCard slot) and release some of the plastic clips before I can pull the whole panel off.  (Really miss the M6700's two-screws-and-slide-off bottom cover.)
• I left the system on with the lid shut for a while yesterday.  When I opened it back up, the screen would not go to high brightness.  It was stuck at around 40% and pressing the "brightness up" button on the keyboard would not make it go higher.  I was able to "drag" the slider higher in Windows but the screen was still dim.  After having the system open for a while, it was happy to go back to max brightness.  I wonder if the panel maybe got too hot?  The system does get quite warm even when under low load.  More experimentation needed.  I did go and disable the "automatically adjust brightness" option in the Intel graphics control panel.

Also...

• The entire touchpad physically "clicks" when you press down on it (sort of like older MacBook touchpads before they switched to haptics).  By default, "clicking" in the lower right corner of the touchpad performs a right-click.
• As much as I like having the speakers above the keyboard / under the display (M6700, 7560)... the speaker grill up there does tend to accumulate dust and debris which is difficult to clean out, and that's not an issue when the speakers are located in the very front of the system like they are here.
• I noticed the battery light turn on while I was running the Final Fantasy XV benchmark which is a bit more CPU-intensive than 3DMark.  I think there may be circumstances where the system will draw from battery power if both the CPU and GPU are under load.

I do really like Alder Lake.  It's the reason I held out for the 7770; I've been ready to upgrade from the M6700 for a couple of years now.  I've been working with Process Lasso to make sure that background processes are stuck on the E cores, which seems like it should help with power use / noise / heat, and also leaving the P cores idle and fully available for "real work".  Pretty good success.  (I have a fair amount of background stuff that lightly uses the CPU; built in Windows services, game clients like Steam/Epic/GOG, Discord, file sync clients like OneDrive and iCloud, Adobe's random background crap, .....)

 

 

Benchmarks

 

These were run with stock settings on the Windows 11 image included on the system.  (No tricks like undervolting, CPU power limit adjustments, etc.).  Optimus enabled.

 

3DMark Fire Strike

"Optimized" power profile – 17414 – https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/77960522?

"Performance" power profile – 18526 – https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/77960816?

 

3DMark Time Spy

"Optimized" power profile – 10851 – https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/77960850?

"Performance" power profile – 11064 – https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/77960871?

 

The NVIDIA control panel shows that the max power for the GPU is 150W, but according to HWiNFO64, the max power draw was 130W while running the 3DMark tests.  GPU-Z shows that the GPU is connected via PCIe4 ×8, not ×16.

 

Cinebench:

Single core (optimized) – 1776

Single core (performance) – 1800

Multi core (optimized) – 14823

Multi core (performance) – 15029

Screen shots, in order, right here:

Spoiler

 

 

Photos

 

I feel like there are already enough photos of the system itself, so for now I just have these, but let me know if there is anything that you are interested to see up close.

 

Bottom cover open, all NVMe slots populated (with heatsinks off), 128GB CAMM card present.  No issue fitting a "double-sided" NVMe drive into any of the slots.

 

Left side Ethernet and power jacks.  I was a bit concerned about having these on the left and not the back.  I do have a "right angle" adapter for the power jack that points the cord backwards which I use at my desk.

 

Here on my couch folding table, I find that the cords bend around under the table well enough that I don't need to do any more trickery.  I actually do like that these ports are right next to each other.

 

 

I'm working on an in-depth review which will be posted separately in the future.  Though for now, happy to do Q&A while others are still waiting for their systems to come in.  (I have a few outstanding questions already that I will try to hit this weekend.)

 

[Edit]

Did just notice a small cluster of stuck pixels on the display, so I guess I'll be calling to have it swapped out next week.  Similar things happened with the last two personal laptops that I purchased, just my luck...

[yslalan]

Amazing! Congratulation that you have received your new laptop, and thanks for sharing your experience. I am hoping to see more performance analysis from you.

 

From the link you posted, the results are not public due to some reason, can you post some screenshots?

[SvenC]

How big is the new power adapter?

[yslalan]

11 minutes ago, SvenC said:

How big is the new power adapter?

https://www.chiphell.com/thread-2431029-1-1.html, the smaller one comes with the 7770, the larger one comes with previous models

[microdou]

9 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

I'll be calling to have it swapped out next week

How does the swap work? Onsite replacement of the screen, a new shipment from China, or a new laptop from local inventory?

[Aaron44126]

5 hours ago, yslalan said:

From the link you posted, the results are not public due to some reason, can you post some screenshots?

 

Sorry, didn't realize this but I see now if I check from a different browser.  The results are not marked "hidden" when I log in from my account, but maybe 3DMark doesn't want to make them public because it can't recognize the 7770's GPU yet?  (It says "unknown/generic GPU" on these results.)  Anyone know if there is some button I need to click to make these public?

 

I'll just include the results files here, you can open them right in 3DMark.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsIwJHFk4EFdqMcIYBj-2OPxTSBXNg

 

4 hours ago, SvenC said:

How big is the new power adapter?

 

Here it is compared to the old PA-9E 240W, which was used in M6600-7720, and I think might still be included with docks that have 240W PSU.

 

The one from @yslalan‘s photo above was included with 7730-7760.

 

53 minutes ago, microdou said:

How does the swap work? Onsite replacement of the screen, a new shipment from China, or a new laptop from local inventory?

 

They "should" have a local inventory of parts so they can dispatch one to my location and then a tech can just swap out the display panel on-site.  I realized that ProSupport Plus is available 24/7 so I will be calling them today, no need to wait until Monday.  (But the soonest I think that they'll be able to swap out the display is Tuesday.)

[Aaron44126]

[Edit] Update: Display panel was replaced August 23, no more stuck pixels.

 

Sat down to take a photo of the display defect... and found two more.  The one that I saw originally is in the middle and I found two more off to the right.

 

(center)

 

(right side)

The brighter spot here looks like it might actually be panel damage and not just stuck pixels.

 

Just got off the phone with ProSupport; they did want me to send over photos, but in the end they agreed to replace the panel but warned that it is "barely outside" of the acceptable manufacturing defect criteria and they might not replace it a second time.  (...In which case, as much as it pains me, if the second panel had issues and they refused to replace it, I'd probably have to return the entire system, reorder, and wait for the replacement.  I'm not going to take visible display issues in a machine this expensive.)

 

Panel replacement should occur on Tuesday as long as the part shipment and tech availability goes as planned.

[Edit] Just got notice of a part delay.  Probably won't be swapped out Tuesday.

 

[Edit 2] @Conan11 pointed out below that Dell's Premium Panel Guarantee guarantees zero bright subpixels in Precision Mobile Workstation systems with 900p or better resolution.  (This doesn't square with what the rep told me on the phone but I will certainly point it out later if I need to...)

[Aaron44126]

Cinebench:

Single core (optimized) – 1776

Single core (performance) – 1800

Multi core (optimized) – 14823

Multi core (performance) – 15029

 

(Also added to first impressions post above, with screen shots.)

[win32asmguy]

3 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Sorry, didn't realize this but I see now if I check from a different browser.  The results are not marked "hidden" when I log in from my account, but maybe 3DMark doesn't want to make them public because it can't recognize the 7770's GPU yet?  (It says "unknown/generic GPU" on these results.)  Anyone know if there is some button I need to click to make these public?

You probably need to contact their support team so they can whitelist the new card device id. Same thing was needed for the 3080 in the 7560 last year.

[Pultzar]

Those Cinebench numbers are lower than I was expecting (or hoping for)

[win32asmguy]

26 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

Cinebench:

Single core (optimized) – 1776

Single core (performance) – 1800

Multi core (optimized) – 14823

Multi core (performance) – 15029

 

(Also added to first impressions post above, with screen shots.)

That multicore score makes it seem like it is power limit throttling at 55W or so. Is it with the most recent bios installed?

[1610ftw]

2 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

That multicore score makes it seem like it is power limit throttling at 55W or so. Is it with the most recent bios installed?

 

It seems like the 7770 still needs some optimization to improve both CPU and GPU performance. Even with more limited cooling capability it should be possible to hit at least 19K on CR23 and 12K on Time Spy. I just hope that the new heatsink design isn't a limiting factor.

[Aaron44126]

35 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

Is it with the most recent bios installed?

Yes.

I’ll do another run later and see what CPU temps and power draw looks like…

[win32asmguy]

2 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

It seems like the 7770 still needs some optimization to improve both CPU and GPU performance. Even with more limited cooling capability it should be possible to hit at least 19K on CR23 and 12K on Time Spy. I just hope that the new heatsink design isn't a limiting factor.

Yeah I had a few general ideas:

 

Conservative LLC settings for current bios;

Something related to 128gb memory in use;

Poor thermal contact with heatsink;

Something related to all m.2 drive slots populated;

Something related to windows 11 memory protection or such;

Initial thermal throttling because fans need a minute to ramp to max;

Poor silicon quality that would be consuming up to 50W more due to higher stock voltage curve or current leak.

[Conan11]

6 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

"barely outside" of the acceptable manufacturing defect criteria

Isn't it a bright pixel/subpixel? Dell advertises their policy to replace a panel with just a single bright pixel

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000126004/dell-display-pixel-guidelines#premium-panel-guarantee
The definition they use is "a white or colored (red, green, or blue) dot on a black background"

 

18 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

When the 7770 fans kick on, they rev up to a high level before quickly settling back down to silent

This is actually disappointing for a system advertised as "quiet". There are situations where even a short period of fan noise can be very undesired, think of a meeting, studying at a library, audio recording... perhaps this is something they can improve in firmware or software? Do you plan to report this to Dell?

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, Conan11 said:

Isn't it a bright pixel/subpixel? Dell advertises their policy to replace a panel with just a single bright pixel

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000126004/dell-display-pixel-guidelines#premium-panel-guarantee
The definition they use is "a white or colored (red, green, or blue) dot on a black background"

 

This is actually disappointing for a system advertised as "quiet". There are situations where even a short period of fan noise can be very undesired, think of a meeting, studying at a library, audio recording... perhaps this is something they can improve in firmware or software? Do you plan to report this to Dell?

 

Thanks for that link.  I actually wrote back to the guy who I spoke with earlier and pointed this out.  I'll keep this on hand in case they give me grief about a second replacement (if the replacement comes in and still has an issue).

 

Regarding the fan, it is a bit disappointing that this is a "regression" in fan behavior from Precision 7X60, but in reality I doubt it will be much of a problem in practice; the fans likely won't often turn all of the way off unless you are limiting the CPU speed.  In any case, I don't know if it could be fixed in firmware but I'm sure that @Dell-Mano_G will stop by eventually and take note of the feedback.

 

[Edit]

6 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

You probably need to contact their support team so they can whitelist the new card device id. Same thing was needed for the 3080 in the 7560 last year.

 

I submitted a support ticket.

[Aaron44126]

This is what things look like a few minutes into a multi-thread Cinebench run.

 

 

 

 

I'll let you guys help with interpretation, but...

• CPU (P cores) went up to almost 4.9 GHz but then settled down at around 2.6 GHz.  Similar story with E cores, just lower frequencies.
• Temperatures in the low 90's for most cores, seems like there is a little bit of thermal headroom (but a few cores are up around 100 °C).
• ...Is "CPU package power" what I want to be looking at for the CPU's power use?  It never went much above 75W.

(Fans were running full tilt even if it took about a minute for them to get there.)

[Aaron44126]

16 hours ago, yslalan said:

From the link you posted, the results are not public due to some reason, can you post some screenshots?

3DMark links should work now.

[drnoob13]

Excellent post! Thanks very much @Aaron44126 for all the details and benchmarks!

 

I just wonder if you can share couple of other things (sorry if it's too much to ask :P):

1. A comparison with previous gen, e.g. 7760 or 7560. (I know you have a 7560 at work that's why I ask.). I have a 7560 and wonder if I should upgrade to a 7570.
2. How do you think about the drastic change of the internal design and layout of the 7x70 models? The two fans now sit next to each other instead of situating on the 2 sides. Does that really improve the heat dissipation compared to the previous generation (some stress test required may be)?
3. How did you get the 3080 Ti? 🙂 How much does it cost compared to the available options, e.g. A4500 and A5500?

In addition, it'd be great if you could include the specs of your systems on top of your detail post.

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

This is what things look like a few minutes into a multi-thread Cinebench run.

 

 

 

 

I'll let you guys help with interpretation, but...

• CPU (P cores) went up to almost 4.9 GHz but then settled down at around 2.6 GHz.  Similar story with E cores, just lower frequencies.
• Temperatures in the low 90's for most cores, seems like there is a little bit of thermal headroom (but a few cores are up around 100 °C).
• ...Is "CPU package power" what I want to be looking at for the CPU's power use?  It never went much above 75W.

(Fans were running full tilt even if it took about a minute for them to get there.)

Those temps are quite high!

Can you please check how high both with regard to the score and the temps with just one CR23 multi core run?

 

Probably not that much if indeed the CPU never draws more than 75W. 

The issue seems to be that even with only 75W the 7770 currently goes right up to 100°C and beyond.

 

To make better use of the superior multi core performance of the 12950HX I would expect the 7770 to be able to sustain a draw of 100W for the longer CR23 run and at least 125W for a single run.

 

For comparison my 7760 draws up to 110W in a single CR23 multi core run and I would guess it should be able to sustain at least 90W.

 

That is also with 128 GB memory and 4 SSDs.

 

By the way: That CAMM module is huge 😄

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

This is what things look like a few minutes into a multi-thread Cinebench run.

 

 

 

 

I'll let you guys help with interpretation, but...

• CPU (P cores) went up to almost 4.9 GHz but then settled down at around 2.6 GHz.  Similar story with E cores, just lower frequencies.
• Temperatures in the low 90's for most cores, seems like there is a little bit of thermal headroom (but a few cores are up around 100 °C).
• ...Is "CPU package power" what I want to be looking at for the CPU's power use?  It never went much above 75W.

(Fans were running full tilt even if it took about a minute for them to get there.)

 

There is absolutely no reason a system of that caliber with that chip should be thermal throttling at ~76w and hitting 100c everywhere.

 

 

[1610ftw]

35 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

There is absolutely no reason a system of that caliber with that chip should be thermal throttling at ~76w and hitting 100c everywhere.

 

 

Indeed an overheating and throttling CPU's seems to be a regular occurrence these days even with top of the line products and I hope that @Aaron44126 gets his 7770 sorted out within the return window. 

[Aaron44126]

2 hours ago, drnoob13 said:

I just wonder if you can share couple of other things (sorry if it's too much to ask :P):

1. First off, note that the smaller system this time around is Precision 7670 and not 7570 (reflecting its 16" display).  I've never been one to recommend upgrading just one generation.
2. ...Seems like we're trying to sort out what's up with the thermals, it's a bit early to know if it is really an improvement.
3. RTX 3080 Ti is not available through the web site but you can get it through a sales rep.  (This was also the case for RTX 3080 in the 7X60 systems.)

(I did add some specs to the top of the post as you suggested.)

 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

There is absolutely no reason a system of that caliber with that chip should be thermal throttling at ~76w and hitting 100c everywhere.

49 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

Indeed an overheating and throttling CPU's seems to be a regular occurrence these days even with top of the line products and I hope that @Aaron44126 gets his 7770 sorted out within the return window. 

 

Thanks for the feedback.  I will say, from my perspective, I've never been one worry that much about eeking out every last bit of performance from a system; I just need it to work for what I need it to do.  So, I'm not anywhere near a point where I am "dissatisfied" with the 7770 and it is not in danger of being returned (as long as the display issue gets sorted).  It is of course leaps and bounds better than my M6700, and even if these Cinebench scores are "low", they top what can be achieved on the prior-gen 11th gen Precision 7760 by a fair margin (as I understand it, 12500-ish before getting into tweaks).

 

My "requirements" for a new laptop are basically thus:

• Alder Lake HX (for hybrid architecture) + high-end NVIDIA dGPU
• 128GB RAM
• Four NVMe slots
• 17-inch display panel strongly preferred

...There are remarkably few systems out there that hit all of these marks; I'm only aware of two, this one and MSI GT77.  I'd prefer to stay with Dell, I have a long history with them and I know what to expect in terms of support (...and GT77's keyboard layout is even worse than 7770's).  Four NVMe slots in particular seems to be hard to come by in the current generation models.  If there are other systems out there that run Alder Lake HX better but don't hit my other bullet points, then I'm not interested in them...  I'll happily trade a bit of performance for the extra storage capacity.

 

That said, I certainly don't want to be leaving performance on the table and if there is something "wrong" here then I would want to address it.  So, what I want to do now is basically wait until some more users have 7770's and we can see if they experience the same thing as me.  If not, I'll take steps to get mine fixed.  If so, then we're looking at something more systemic and maybe an issue with the thermal design.  (...I'll also take a look at benchmark results from other Alder Lake HX models, which some of you guys are probably more aware of than me, just to see if maybe we aren't setting expectations a bit too high.)

[yslalan]

17 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Cinebench:

Single core (optimized) – 1776

Single core (performance) – 1800

Multi core (optimized) – 14823

Multi core (performance) – 15029

 

(Also added to first impressions post above, with screen shots.)

These scores are not as high as what HX series should be. 

I got 13338 multicore score on my precision 5760. There should be a huge improvement on multi-core as intel advertised.