[Various] AMD Ryzen 7600x/7700x/7900x/7950x Reviews

[jaybee83]

14 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

THIS

 

Currently we are being taken for a ride by SSD manufacturers and if you are getting a laptop they now basically force everybody to get that ultra expensive stuff if they want more storage or they have to get crappy QLC. By reducing the max number of drives to only two in all but the biggest systems you have to pay even more if you want more than a few TB of storage as then it quickly gets VERY expensive.

 

If it has to be below 100 per TB and not crappy then at 4TB there is only the 2.5" form factor with indeed Samsung and WD offering the best combination of durability and life expectancy and a relatively modest price.

 

 

thats actually what im currently doing with my SATA drives: previously in my Clevo i had the 2x4TB 860 Evos set up as JBOD, but now in Hyperion i switched to RAID 0 for better sequential performances. makes sense since all the data on those drives are media, so tv shows / movies / games, etc. thus i can profit from the improved seq speeds. once theyre full i can add a third sata drive and bam, 3x the single drive performance with 50% more capacity 😁

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

thats actually what im currently doing with my SATA drives: previously in my Clevo i had the 2x4TB 860 Evos set up as JBOD, but now in Hyperion i switched to RAID 0 for better sequential performances. makes sense since all the data on those drives are media, so tv shows / movies / games, etc. thus i can profit from the improved seq speeds. once theyre full i can add a third sata drive and bam, 3x the single drive performance with 50% more capacity 😁

 

I have a RAID 0 exactly for improving sequential speed, giving me about 700 to 900 MB/s over network. It is only 2 x 2TB WD blue in my MSI GT75 as it only have one 2.5" slot and the cheap M2 version is limited to 2TB and all slots are already occupied so that will have to do. You might be disappointed by the way if you add another drive as the speed increase will be more like another 20% on top from what I remember when I tried this once

 

And I hope you got a proper backup for all that stuff as RAID 0 without a backup is not something I would recommend 😄

 

[1610ftw]

Tom's hardware article about the issues:

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7000-performance-advisory

 

Supposedly not due to Windows 11 but then it has only been confirmed to have happened on W11 systems from what I have seen?

 

Looks like there is a lot of tiptoeing going on and I can imagine that if W11 is the culprit they do not want to expose it as it is already on too many systems. If it is due to the new 40xx cards causing issues only because of bandwidth then it may still only be a windows issue.

[jaybee83]

21 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

I have a RAID 0 exactly for improving sequential speed, giving me about 700 to 900 MB/s over network. It is only 2 x 2TB WD blue in my MSI GT75 as it only have one 2.5" slot and the cheap M2 version is limited to 2TB and all slots are already occupied so that will have to do. You might be disappointed by the way if you add another drive as the speed increase will be more like another 20% on top from what I remember when I tried this once

 

And I hope you got a proper backup for all that stuff as RAID 0 without a backup is not something I would recommend 😄

 

 

aw man, really only 20% uplift? that would suck! was it software or hardware raid when u tried that?

and yeah no worries on the backup, will be getting an 18TB spinning rust soon for exactly that purpose. plus, worst case, since its all just media its not highly unique personal data. that high priority data i always keep on my highest reliability / newest drive for added peace of mind.

 

15 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

Tom's hardware article about the issues:

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7000-performance-advisory

 

Supposedly not due to Windows 11 but then it has only been confirmed to have happened on W11 systems from what I have seen?

 

Looks like there is a lot of tiptoeing going on and I can imagine that if W11 is the culprit they do not want to expose it as it is already on too many systems. If it is due to the new 40xx cards causing issues only because of bandwidth then it may still only be a windows issue.

 

oh highly interesting, thx for linking! ill get to reading that right away, really wanna know wtf is going on with zen 4 perf on win11...

[1610ftw]

3 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

aw man, really only 20% uplift? that would suck! was it software or hardware raid when u tried that?

and yeah no worries on the backup, will be getting an 18TB spinning rust soon for exactly that purpose. plus, worst case, since its all just media its not highly unique personal data. that high priority data i always keep on my highest reliability / newest drive for added peace of mind.

 

I went software RAID because I had read up on it before and it was predicted that it would be faster and easier to handle.

I looked it up back then and saw similar results from others and was a bit disappointed, too but it was on a laptop so there was no way to try different stuff. As I assume you would try that with your brand spanking new motherboard you may end up with much faster speeds so I would say go for it when your two drives are full 🙂

 

18TB is a nice size for a backup drive and I always try to have backup for everything because even a collection of recordings and movies may take days to restore when one SSD / drive in a RAID 0 fails and I simply do not want to spend time on that. Also  I have more than once accidentally erased something but I was able to restore it from a backup - never discount the possibility or user errors that I am told are often more frequent than hardware errors 😄

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

oh highly interesting, thx for linking! ill get to reading that right away, really wanna know wtf is going on with zen 4 perf on win11...

That surely is all quite strange - not that I would be affected much if it was only an issue with W11....

 

[Papusan]

What is this? No performance gain in  productivity/workloads with the mid cycle re-freshed Cpu? Yep, you will probably have a gain in gaming but AMD should also offer higher overall performance in other tasks.... @Mr. Fox would you be happy with a Cpu refresh that offered nothing more than uplift in gaming? If you are not a gamer, then whats the point with the mid cycle refresh from AMD? A possible slightly better bin but with same clock speed? Hmmm.

 

This information originates with Tom Wassick, who does semiconductor packaging stuff for IBM.

One thing we shouldn't expect from the Ryzen 7000 "X3D" processors is improved performance in productivity apps. While AMD's had a solid lead on Intel for the last couple of CPU generations in productivity, Intel's more-or-less evaporated that lead with its latest 13th-generation processors while taking a small lead in gaming, too. It will be fascinating to see if AMD can blow past Intel in gaming with 3D V-cache once again.

 

Zen 4 Delidding Hints At A Big Bandwidth Bump For Ryzen 7000 3D V-Cache CPUs hothardware.com

 

 

AMD want to get rid of the 5800X3D chips so they can push people/gamers/creators over on the much more expensive AM5 platform. The soon EOL 5000 serie (X3D) chips have stolen all the thunder from 7000 series chips and AM5 platform. Lower profits due people want the much cheaper 5000 series chips need new thinking. I as well would try something like this 🙂

 

Lower the prices on the brand new Zen 4 and AM5 would in the end cost AMD a lot more. Many ways to keep up prices (manipulating the market to keep up ASP isn't something new). But this can hit back. 

 

Ryzen 7 5800X3D price slashed to US$329 as AMD discounts Zen 3 CPUs in the US
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Ryzen-7-5800X3D-price-slashed-to-US-329-as-AMD-discounts-Zen-3-CPUs-in-the-US.666023.0.html

 

AMD has also slashed prices for other Ryzen 5000 series CPUs. The Zen 3 flagship Ryzen 9 5950X which was introduced at US$799 now goes for US$549. The Ryzen 9 5900X has also seen a discount and you can now get one from AMD for US$349 (former MSRP of US$549). Finally, prices for the Ryzen 7 5800X and the Ryzen 5 5600X have also been cut by US$200 and US$140 respectively. The chips now cost US$249 and US$159. All Zen 3 CPUs mentioned here also include a free copy of the Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection video game.

[Custom90gt]

I mean I guess I'm not surprised to see no uplift in applications that do not utilize additional CPU cache.  Intel already added additional cache to their 13 series CPU to edge out AMD when it comes to gaming...

[Reciever]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

What is this? No performance gain in  productivity/workloads with the mid cycle re-freshed Cpu? Yep, you will probably have a gain in gaming but AMD should also offer higher overall performance in other tasks.... @Mr. Fox would you be happy with a Cpu refresh that offered nothing more than uplift in gaming? If you are not a gamer, then whats the point with the mid cycle refresh from AMD? A possible slightly better bin but with same clock speed? Hmmm.

 

This information originates with Tom Wassick, who does semiconductor packaging stuff for IBM.

One thing we shouldn't expect from the Ryzen 7000 "X3D" processors is improved performance in productivity apps. While AMD's had a solid lead on Intel for the last couple of CPU generations in productivity, Intel's more-or-less evaporated that lead with its latest 13th-generation processors while taking a small lead in gaming, too. It will be fascinating to see if AMD can blow past Intel in gaming with 3D V-cache once again.

 

Zen 4 Delidding Hints At A Big Bandwidth Bump For Ryzen 7000 3D V-Cache CPUs hothardware.com

 

 

AMD want to get rid of the 5800X3D chips so they can push people/gamers/creators over on the much more expensive AM5 platform. The soon EOL 5000 serie (X3D) chips have stolen all the thunder from 7000 series chips and AM5 platform. Lower profits due people want the much cheaper 5000 series chips need new thinking. I as well would try something like this 🙂

 

Lower the prices on the brand new Zen 4 and AM5 would in the end cost AMD a lot more. Many ways to keep up prices (manipulating the market to keep up ASP isn't something new). But this can hit back. 

 

Ryzen 7 5800X3D price slashed to US$329 as AMD discounts Zen 3 CPUs in the US
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Ryzen-7-5800X3D-price-slashed-to-US-329-as-AMD-discounts-Zen-3-CPUs-in-the-US.666023.0.html

 

AMD has also slashed prices for other Ryzen 5000 series CPUs. The Zen 3 flagship Ryzen 9 5950X which was introduced at US$799 now goes for US$549. The Ryzen 9 5900X has also seen a discount and you can now get one from AMD for US$349 (former MSRP of US$549). Finally, prices for the Ryzen 7 5800X and the Ryzen 5 5600X have also been cut by US$200 and US$140 respectively. The chips now cost US$249 and US$159. All Zen 3 CPUs mentioned here also include a free copy of the Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection video game.

I like those prices, amazon and microcenter seem to have not updated their listings yet. 5800X3D should make for a nice performance uplift over my 2700x 

[Papusan]

An interesting tidbit into AMD's problem. Offer less performance  vs its competitor and increased costs. AMDs problem is... If they lower the prices on the new platform to try compete, this will take a huge hit on profits. Old inventory and too high prices have its cost.

 

Why AMD’s Ryzen 7000 and Motherboards Cost So Damn Much tomshardware.com
By Paul Alcorn published Today

Zen 4 has a pricing problem
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/why-amds-ryzen-7000-and-motherboards-cost-so-damn-much

 

As you can see, the Ryzen 7000 series has a pricing problem. And that’s before we account for overclocking, which brings Raptor’s incredible clock speeds to bear and allows even the cheapest Intel chip, the Core i5-13600K, to beat AMD’s fastest gaming chip, the Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Intel's chips do require more robust cooling due to their peak power consumption, which is higher than all the competing AMD processors in each price band, but AMD's other pricing issues outweigh those additional cooling costs.

 

As a footnote regarding additional cooling costs... You'll need decent cooling also for Ryzen Zen 4 chips. So I can't see this as an huge advantage in any form or shape. If you want the best out of your purchase then you'll need to pay more. Air cooling is out of questin if you go for the higher end SKUs. This regardless if you prefer the blue or the Red pill. 

Regardless of these big performance disparities, AMD hasn’t budged on chip pricing, and there could be several reasons. First, AMD has excess Ryzen inventory on the market. The company recently announced that it would try to burn excess inventory throughout the entire fourth quarter of this year — and it might not be able to sell all of it by then. That means a big oversupply of 7nm Ryzen 5000 chips must be sold, so AMD might wait to adjust pricing on the newer chips until after the inventory drawdown.

[Reciever]

Looks like prices went up instead of down. ebay/microcenter are at 400 versus 329 and 379 from yesterday lol

[jaybee83]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:12 PM, Custom90gt said:

I mean I guess I'm not surprised to see no uplift in applications that do not utilize additional CPU cache.  Intel already added additional cache to their 13 series CPU to edge out AMD when it comes to gaming...

 

this. the X3D tech is just meant for gaming or productivity apps that profit from increased cache. for intel's side, their midcycle refresh in the form of the KS doesnt bring anything much to the table either, aside from maybe 1-200 mhz more 😋 so its not like these refreshes mean much aside from specific use cases (gaming for AMD, overclocking and benching on intel). 

 

On 11/3/2022 at 3:14 PM, Papusan said:

An interesting tidbit into AMD's problem. Offer less performance  vs its competitor and increased costs. AMDs problem is... If they lower the prices on the new platform to try compete, this will take a huge hit on profits. Old inventory and too high prices have its cost.

 

Why AMD’s Ryzen 7000 and Motherboards Cost So Damn Much tomshardware.com
By Paul Alcorn published Today

Zen 4 has a pricing problem
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/why-amds-ryzen-7000-and-motherboards-cost-so-damn-much

 

As you can see, the Ryzen 7000 series has a pricing problem. And that’s before we account for overclocking, which brings Raptor’s incredible clock speeds to bear and allows even the cheapest Intel chip, the Core i5-13600K, to beat AMD’s fastest gaming chip, the Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Intel's chips do require more robust cooling due to their peak power consumption, which is higher than all the competing AMD processors in each price band, but AMD's other pricing issues outweigh those additional cooling costs.

 

As a footnote regarding additional cooling costs... You'll need decent cooling also for Ryzen Zen 4 chips. So I can't see this as an huge advantage in any form or shape. If you want the best out of your purchase then you'll need to pay more. Air cooling is out of questin if you go for the higher end SKUs. This regardless if you prefer the blue or the Red pill. 

Regardless of these big performance disparities, AMD hasn’t budged on chip pricing, and there could be several reasons. First, AMD has excess Ryzen inventory on the market. The company recently announced that it would try to burn excess inventory throughout the entire fourth quarter of this year — and it might not be able to sell all of it by then. That means a big oversupply of 7nm Ryzen 5000 chips must be sold, so AMD might wait to adjust pricing on the newer chips until after the inventory drawdown.

 

well duh, they barely just introduced AM5, of course theyre not gonns drop prices right away 😄 no company in their right mind would do that unless something cataclysmic happened (i.e. mining crash).

dont forget, AM5 is a long-lived platform vs. deadend RPL platform. any changes amd implements now theyll have to continue for the rest of the platform lifetime. besides, with AM4 cpu sales skyrocketing currently,  think AMD is bothered by that? the money STILL goes to their pocket! 😄

[saturnotaku]

17 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

well duh, they barely just introduced AM5, of course theyre not gonns drop prices right away 😄 no company in their right mind would do that unless something cataclysmic happened (i.e..mining crash).

dont forget, AM5 is a long-lived platform vs. deadend RPL platform. any changes amd implements now theyll have to continue for the rest of the platform lifetime. besides, with AM34 cpu sales skyrocketing currently,  think AMD is bothered by that? the money STILL goes to their pocket! 😄

 

Having two platforms available is a smart strategy, IMO. While the profit margins on AM4 are probably not as high, they can make up for it with sheer volume as the value proposition remains very strong. Any incremental AM5 sales they can get from early adopters are icing on the cake. Further, if they can hold the line on pricing, Radeon 7000 should also do very well for them. 

[Papusan]

56 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

this. the X3D tech is just meant for gaming or productivity apps that profit from increased cache. for intel's side, their midcycle refresh in the form of the KS doesnt bring anything much to the table either, aside from maybe 1-200 mhz more 😋 so its not like these refreshes mean much aside from specific use cases (gaming for AMD, overclocking and benching on intel). 

 

 

well duh, they barely just introduced AM5, of course theyre not gonns drop prices right away 😄 no company in their right mind would do that unless something cataclysmic happened (i.e..mining crash).

dont forget, AM5 is a long-lived platform vs. deadend RPL platform. any changes amd implements now theyll have to continue for the rest of the platform lifetime. besides, with AM34 cpu sales skyrocketing currently,  think AMD is bothered by that? the money STILL goes to their pocket! 😄

If the sales of AM5 don’t make a huge sales this year and only will increase next year, AMD has only a few months to do it before Intel is out with a brand new platform. The longer AMD will wait for price reductions will only gain Intel. 

[jaybee83]

2 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

 

Having two platforms available is a smart strategy, IMO. While the profit margins on AM4 are probably not as high, they can make up for it with sheer volume as the value proposition remains very strong. Any incremental AM5 sales they can get from early adopters are icing on the cake. Further, if they can hold the line on pricing, Radeon 7000 should also do very well for them. 

 

agreed. fpr AMD its about holding market share and expanding on it. every customer staying on AM4 is a loss for Intel.

 

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

If the sales of AM5 don’t make a huge sales this year and only will increase next year, AMD has only a few months to do it before Intel is out with a brand new platform. The longer AMD will wait for price reductions will only gain Intel. 

 

yes and no, depends how u look at it. look at it this way: if AMD is able to keep AM4 owners on AM4, thats a win. anyone else wanting to switch from AM4 will likely choose AM5 due to platform longevity. so that only leaves intel 12th gen owners who want to upgrade to 13th gen. 

AMD has shown that for them its more about the long game rather than short term profits. as you said yourself, in the current economy, the number of ppl going for platform upgrades every single gen will be super small. not everyone goes out running to buy RPL just because it benches a few % faster, makes no sense whatsoever for most ppl due to it being a deadend platform.

 

later on, once AM5 has been out for a bit and prices have fallen, those same AM4 owners who enjoyed the platform longevity will likely switch to AM5 rather than buy a new platform every other gen with Intel. again, its a long game. AMD just cant compete otherwise due to their tiny size compared with Intel, so they gotta choose their battles wisely.

[Reciever]

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

agreed. fpr AMD its about holding market share and expanding on it. every customer staying on AM4 is a loss for Intel.

 

 

yes and no, depends how u look at it. look at it this way: if AMD is able to keep AM4 owners on AM4, thats a win. anyone else wanting to switch from AM4 will likely choose AM5 due to platform longevity. so that only leaves intel 12th gen owners who want to upgrade to 13th gen. 

AMD has shown that for them its more about the long game rather than short term profits. as you said yourself, in the current economy, the number of ppl going for platform upgrades every single gen will be super small. not everyone goes out running to buy RPL just because it benches a few % faster, makes no sense whatsoever for most ppl due to it being a deadend platform.

 

later on, once AM5 has been out for a bit and prices have fallen, those same AM4 owners who enjoyed the platform longevity will likely switch to AM5 rather than buy a new platform every other gen with Intel. again, its a long game. AMD just cant compete otherwise due to their tiny size compared with Intel, so they gotta choose their battles wisely.

I suspect this to be largely true, save for they also set the precedent for failing to do anything with the HEDT market. Sadly, this means they have precedent for two truths to be in play. Supporting a platform for the masses such as AM4, of which I benefit from personally (my bias) and also ditching HEDT which also expected (whether justified or not, I dont know) that support. Though, its also true (sadly) that most of the AM4 market will not know this or care, while the HEDT market is probably pretty miffed since on an individual level, invested much more into that platform by comparison.

 

This isnt to throw shade on AMD, just that I was hoping for them to have a cleaner record generally.

[Papusan]

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

agreed. fpr AMD its about holding market share and expanding on it. every customer staying on AM4 is a loss for Intel.

 

 

yes and no, depends how u look at it. look at it this way: if AMD is able to keep AM4 owners on AM4, thats a win. anyone else wanting to switch from AM4 will likely choose AM5 due to platform longevity. so that only leaves intel 12th gen owners who want to upgrade to 13th gen. 

AMD has shown that for them its more about the long game rather than short term profits. as you said yourself, in the current economy, the number of ppl going for platform upgrades every single gen will be super small. not everyone goes out running to buy RPL just because it benches a few % faster, makes no sense whatsoever for most ppl due to it being a deadend platform.

 

later on, once AM5 has been out for a bit and prices have fallen, those same AM4 owners who enjoyed the platform longevity will likely switch to AM5 rather than buy a new platform every other gen with Intel. again, its a long game. AMD just cant compete otherwise due to their tiny size compared with Intel, so they gotta choose their battles wisely.

If AMD struggle to sell out their AM5 platform and Zen4 chips this year and instead hope it will increase into 2023 then you'll have Intel with a brand new platform who will run into 2025. And new tech is out then. AMD need to do something now... Not late spring next year or coming summer. Then it's too late. Also don't forget that many will keep their platform up to 5 yerars without the need for change. They just put in a new graphics card and keep on. I know... My sons do the same. And they are both gamers. Not as old pa😄

 

You won't be able to sell much of the new expensive platform if you continue pump out old hardware as below. And low sales of the new AM5 platform means AMD/partners have to pay more for the parts for the MB (see article above). Aka low sales of the new MB's means they are stuck at high prices and can't sell it cheaper than it is.

 

One of AMDs problems... People don't want to pay for overpriced HW.

 

"This is fantastic news for those on the AM4 platform that were dreading the prospect of not only having to buy a +++$400-ish processor, but also a $200+ motherboard and optionally new DDR5 memory."

 

RTX 4090 & 53 Games: Core i9-13900K vs Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review

REVIEW GRAPHICS CARDS

Intel's new 13900K offers amazing gaming performance, thanks to improvements to caches, IPC and higher operating frequencies. But is that enough to beat the 3DV Cache-powered AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D? What about platform cost?

 

 

 

 

[jaybee83]

19 hours ago, Reciever said:

I suspect this to be largely true, save for they also set the precedent for failing to do anything with the HEDT market. Sadly, this means they have precedent for two truths to be in play. Supporting a platform for the masses such as AM4, of which I benefit from personally (my bias) and also ditching HEDT which also expected (whether justified or not, I dont know) that support. Though, its also true (sadly) that most of the AM4 market will not know this or care, while the HEDT market is probably pretty miffed since on an individual level, invested much more into that platform by comparison.

 

This isnt to throw shade on AMD, just that I was hoping for them to have a cleaner record generally.

 

yeah well...in the end theyre all just companies trying to make a profit and not friends for gamers / professionals 😄 so sadly, developments like these are to be expected.

 

18 hours ago, Papusan said:

If AMD struggle to sell out their AM5 platform and Zen4 chips this year and instead hope it will increase into 2023 then you'll have Intel with a brand new platform who will run into 2025. And new tech is out then. AMD need to do something now... Not late spring next year or coming summer. Then it's too late. Also don't forget that many will keep their platform up to 5 yerars without the need for change. They just put in a new graphics card and keep on. I know... My sons do the same. And they are both gamers. Not as old pa😄

 

You won't be able to sell much of the new expensive platform if you continue pump out old hardware as below. And low sales of the new AM5 platform means AMD/partners have to pay more for the parts for the MB (see article above). Aka low sales of the new MB's means they are stuck at high prices and can't sell it cheaper than it is.

 

One of AMDs problems... People don't want to pay for overpriced HW.

 

"This is fantastic news for those on the AM4 platform that were dreading the prospect of not only having to buy a +++$400-ish processor, but also a $200+ motherboard and optionally new DDR5 memory."

 

RTX 4090 & 53 Games: Core i9-13900K vs Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review

REVIEW GRAPHICS CARDS

Intel's new 13900K offers amazing gaming performance, thanks to improvements to caches, IPC and higher operating frequencies. But is that enough to beat the 3DV Cache-powered AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D? What about platform cost?

 

 

 

 

 

sure intel will have new tech, but that will require a whole new platform. with AMD, theyll release their X3D parts followed by Zen 4+ / 5 and guess what? can still go and grab an X670 or B650 mobo which will be way more competitive than Z890 or similar from Intel. argument of platform longevity still stands, as we can currently see with AM4.

 

as for hardware cost, HUB just published a comparison of best midrange cpus, and guess what? Intel came out pretty expensive actually 😋 so the differences between AM5 and RPL aint really that significant anymore. same for gaming performance, very similar. what does that leave as a deciding factor? u guessed it: platform longevity! 

 

 

[Papusan]

6 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

yeah well...in the end theyre all just companies trying to make a profit and not friends for gamers / professionals 😄 so sadly, developments like these are to be expected.

 

 

sure intel will have new tech, but that will require a whole new platform. with AMD, theyll release their X3D parts followed by Zen 4+ / 5 and guess what? can still go and grab an X670 or B650 mobo which will be way more competitive than Z890 or similar from Intel. argument of platform longevity still stands, as we can currently see with AM4.

 

as for hardware cost, HUB just published a comparison of best midrange cpus, and guess what? Intel came out pretty expensive actually 😋 so the differences between AM5 and RPL aint really that significant anymore. same for gaming performance, very similar. what does that leave as a deciding factor? u guessed it: platform longevity! 

 

 

You get a board for 200$ if you have to upgrade every year. This if you absolutely want stay on latest tech all time. And you can trade in your old MB to offset half of the costs. I can't see this is a huge problem. And you don't need high end MB for gaming. Neither do you need it for content creation/normal use. Your normal costs will always be around half of what you have to pay on the Store.

 

If you want to go cheap then look after proper deals... They will always pop up 🙂 

 

 

If you have to pay for ram you'll come sub 500$. Or cheaper if you buy used memory or have it from before. Use it one or two year, then pop in an cheap used 13900K (if you need more power) and ride it out. Can't be much cheaper than this. The worst cost will be a graphics cards. Not the platform.

 

And you can still get a few cash back if you sell the well used old platform on the used market as long the pc still works as intended (here home... We don't have to pay a penny for selling our used items). I buy a lot used stuff for my hobby. And you don't have to or need to be with the newest all time 🙂

[cylix]

Interesting looks like 105W eco mode is the way to go for daily use.

 

[jaybee83]

On 11/5/2022 at 3:32 PM, Papusan said:

You get a board for 200$ if you have to upgrade every year. This if you absolutely want stay on latest tech all time. And you can trade in your old MB to offset half of the costs. I can't see this is a huge problem. And you don't need high end MB for gaming. Neither do you need it for content creation/normal use. Your normal costs will always be around half of what you have to pay on the Store.

 

If you want to go cheap then look after proper deals... They will always pop up 🙂 

 

 

If you have to pay for ram you'll come sub 500$. Or cheaper if you buy used memory or have it from before. Use it one or two year, then pop in an cheap used 13900K (if you need more power) and ride it out. Can't be much cheaper than this. The worst cost will be a graphics cards. Not the platform.

 

And you can still get a few cash back if you sell the well used old platform on the used market as long the pc still works as intended (here home... We don't have to pay a penny for selling our used items). I buy a lot used stuff for my hobby. And you don't have to or need to be with the newest all time 🙂

 

but now ure contradicting urself uncle Papu 😄 on one hand its this: ppl dont upgrade their system (i.e. your sons) and dont have money to splurge on hardware due to recession.

on the other hand, you say: hey look! u dont need much money on upgrading your whole platform every year, use cashback, promotions, etc!

and then thirdly, we see the INSANE amount of AM4 cpus being sold, outpacing both Zen4 and RPL combined! and lets not kid ourselves, those aint customers buying and building whole new AM4 systems, these are upgraders.

 

so, which is it? people seldomly upgrade but they switch their whole platform every year? we are in a recession but ppl do upgrade their systems frequently? and AM4 sales are high because nobody cares about platform longevity (as argued against AM5)? doesnt make sense man, u gotta decide what ur message actually is 😄 cant just switch everything just to make Intel look good and AMD look bad 😋

and yes, ive already said previously that depending on what your priorities are, either RPL or Zen4 is for you, so its not like im rooting for any "team" here in particular.

 

11 hours ago, cylix said:

Interesting looks like 105W eco mode is the way to go for daily use.

 

 

yep, sounds interesting indeed. ive bookmarked it but not watched yet.

[Papusan]

Intel Claws Back Notebook and Desktop PC Market Share From AMD In Latest Mercury Research Report
 

 

This should worry AMD. Offer the most expensive platform don't pay off. Greed at the expense of market shares will reduce possible profits forwards. If you can't offer the best performance then you can't charge more than your competitor. Neither should you if you offer equal performance or features. This was doomed to happen.

 

I really hope for AMD's part that they don't fall for their own complacency, and do the same for the server side... Because this will hit AMD much harder. Yep, greed doesn't always pay off in the long run. There is still some time to turn the tide but I am afraid it is too late. Which is sad for consumers. Competing on who offers the most expensive gear is not something we should expect from AMD. But the 5000 series Ryzen 9 5950X

 

should have been a wake-up call to us all of what was to come. Yep, AMD shot themselves in the foot with a connon.

[jaybee83]

13 hours ago, Papusan said:

Intel Claws Back Notebook and Desktop PC Market Share From AMD In Latest Mercury Research Report
 

 

This should worry AMD. Offer the most expensive platform don't pay off. Greed at the expense of market shares will reduce possible profits forwards. If you can't offer the best performance then you can't charge more than your competitor. Neither should you if you offer equal performance or features. This was doomed to happen.

 

I really hope for AMD's part that they don't fall for their own complacency, and do the same for the server side... Because this will hit AMD much harder. Yep, greed doesn't always pay off in the long run. There is still some time to turn the tide but I am afraid it is too late. Which is sad for consumers. Competing on who offers the most expensive gear is not something we should expect from AMD. But the 5000 series Ryzen 9 5950X

 

should have been a wake-up call to us all of what was to come. Yep, AMD shot themselves in the foot with a connon.

lulz, just another strat right out of Intel's playbook my man. tell me, how many times have Intel pulled exactly the same thing? now for the first time in ages Intel is finally competing on value cuz they didnt have any other option left. but investors are already angry because they dont like the smaller margins... that should tell you Intel will not be able to keep this up for long

 

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/intel-ceo-says-job-cuts-are-on-the-way-as-costs-are-too-high-and-our-margins-are-too-low/

[Papusan]

47 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

lulz, just another strat right out of Intel's playbook my man. tell me, how many times have Intel pulled exactly the same thing? now for the first time in ages Intel is finally competing on value cuz they didnt have any other option left. but investors are already angry because they dont like the smaller margins... that should tell you Intel will not be able to keep this up for long

 

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/intel-ceo-says-job-cuts-are-on-the-way-as-costs-are-too-high-and-our-margins-are-too-low/

HaHa. I think own fab + own packaging is cheaper than have to buy everything from 2nd hand factories. This is the reason AMD needed higher prices for own products. With worse times it will be harder for both make huge profits from less sales. And if you have too much staff, then you have to adjust it. The whole tech sector is in deep problems now. People have to buy bread and butter before they spend money on thing they may not need. So higher margins doesn’t help much if the volume is low due less sales (less people want to spend money). It’s about finding the right balance. Too expensive will only push people away from spending money. Nvidia etc sell out their new stuff. But this won’t last. New is only new with launch. And not all will buy cards around 2000$. 

[Papusan]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:52 PM, jaybee83 said:

anyone else wanting to switch from AM4 will likely choose AM5 due to platform longevity

Will AMD screw up once again and offer high core counts processors every second year forwards? Mid-cycle upgrade will be for gaming and low end processors. If so, the AM5 platform longevity will be less of a value for those that prefer high core count AMD processors. And 8 cores Ryzen x800 series processors are replaced with x700 SKUs. 

 

AMD Ryzen 7000 3D V-Cache CPUs Rumored To Come In 8 & 6 Core Flavors, A620 Chipset & Next-Gen APUs Planned For Mid To Late 2023
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7000-3d-v-cache-8-6-core-cpus-ryzen-7000g-apus-a620-chipset-2023-rumor/

 

The first and most obvious one is the Ryzen 7000 3D V-Cache lineup that was confirmed by us to be unveiled at CES 2023. It is reported that the lineup will have only two parts, an 8-core, and a 6-core variant. So it looks like we will be getting the Ryzen 7 7800X3D and the Ryzen 5 7600X 3D more or less.

[jaybee83]

On 11/12/2022 at 8:39 AM, Papusan said:

HaHa. I think own fab + own packaging is cheaper than have to buy everything from 2nd hand factories. This is the reason AMD needed higher prices for own products. With worse times it will be harder for both make huge profits from less sales. And if you have too much staff, then you have to adjust it. The whole tech sector is in deep problems now. People have to buy bread and butter before they spend money on thing they may not need. So higher margins doesn’t help much if the volume is low due less sales (less people want to spend money). It’s about finding the right balance. Too expensive will only push people away from spending money. Nvidia etc sell out their new stuff. But this won’t last. New is only new with launch. And not all will buy cards around 2000$. 

 

hmm not really sure about that @cheaper to have own fab & packaging. reason why Intel is considering to offer their process nodes to external customers in the future (like TSMC) is exactly because having their own fab and doing additional R&D for node advancement is so friggin expensive. on the plus side, u can customize the process fully to fit your design instead of having to make compromises when outsourcing the manufacturing like AMD or Nvidia. and, of course, u always get fab time because its your own fab 😄 so u dont have to compete with other customers on manuf time. id say its a give and take, no real overall winner here. just have to make the strategy work for your products.

 

20 hours ago, Papusan said:

Will AMD screw up once again and offer high core counts processors every second year forwards? Mid-cycle upgrade will be for gaming and low end processors. If so, the AM5 platform longevity will be less of a value for those that prefer high core count AMD processors. And 8 cores Ryzen x800 series processors are replaced with x700 SKUs. 

 

AMD Ryzen 7000 3D V-Cache CPUs Rumored To Come In 8 & 6 Core Flavors, A620 Chipset & Next-Gen APUs Planned For Mid To Late 2023
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7000-3d-v-cache-8-6-core-cpus-ryzen-7000g-apus-a620-chipset-2023-rumor/

 

The first and most obvious one is the Ryzen 7000 3D V-Cache lineup that was confirmed by us to be unveiled at CES 2023. It is reported that the lineup will have only two parts, an 8-core, and a 6-core variant. So it looks like we will be getting the Ryzen 7 7800X3D and the Ryzen 5 7600X 3D more or less.

 

depends how u look at it. for intel, its 2 years and ure done, with RPL specifically ure EOL right away regarding the platform. for AM5 its currently "2025+" so were talking minimum 3 years, likely longer. of course we cannot foresee what kinda products will launch during the whole AM5 lifetime, so naturally its a bit of a gamble.

but following your kind of argument is dangerous: because then we might as well just go all BGA or stick to one platform + 1 cpu gen and thats it. do you want choice and longer platform support or do u want less of both? id go the former any time, any day! 🙂