[Various] AMD Ryzen 7600x/7700x/7900x/7950x Reviews

[jaybee83]

33 minutes ago, Sandy Bridge said:

Congratulations on that 7950 purchase!

 

The cheapest AM5 mobo at my local MicroCenter is $260, with a $20 discount if you buy it at the same time as a CPU, so effectively $240.  I paid $130 (before a $20 MIR, which was honored) for a Z68 mobo back in 2011.  So X670/X670E is expensive, even after being adjusted for inflation.

 

I'm thinking wait till B650 and put the savings towards more SSD, as those have come down nicely in price.  $165 for a 2 TB PCIe 4 TLC SSD is not bad at all, I think I'd rather put the mobo savings towards more fast storage.

absolutely more sensible and logical approach, kudos to that!

 

only reason im going balls to the wall with this build is cuz ive been saving up for 3 years now, its my first desktop build in 15 years and my gaming days are numbered (got my first kid on the way 😁)

 

btw, build thread is open! but not finished yet, its a WIP:

enjoy!

[Reciever]

Looking forward to watching it unfold :) I need these chips to do really well and maybe it will drive the price down further for the X3D :3

[Mr. Fox]

 

[jaybee83]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

boy am i glad that i opted for the beefiest AiO out there... and pimp it up with push/pull 6x Noctua IPPC 3000rpm fans 😛 

in any case, Jay still hasnt tried or mentioned the option to switch off that automatic scaling to 95C. i dont think hes even aware of it...

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, jaybee83 said:

boy am i glad that i opted for the beefiest AiO out there... and pimp it up with push/pull 6x Noctua IPPC 3000rpm fans 😛

in any case, Jay still hasnt tried or mentioned the option to switch off that automatic scaling to 95C. i dont think hes even aware of it...

He mentioned how worthless the ASROCK firmware is on the system available to him. Maybe the option is missing.

[jaybee83]

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

He mentioned how worthless the ASROCK firmware is on the system available to him. Maybe the option is missing.

true. Asrock was out of the question right from the get go for me, alone judging by their childish behaviour in blacklisting reviewers like HUB / GN, as well as cheating and cheaping out on the lower end boards...

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

true. Asrock was out of the question right from the get go for me, alone judging by their childish behaviour in blacklisting reviewers like HUB / GN, as well as cheating and cheaping out on the lower end boards...

I scratched them off my list a long time ago. My first and last Chai Tea mobo cured me. I've blacklisted them in my mind. It's always possible that they can do something to earn their way off of that list, but right now I am not aware of a way. They deserve to be blacklisted if for no reason other than their warranty terms are unusually hostile toward customers.

[1610ftw]

Wow, these things run HOT!

Nothing that I would want anywhere near a laptop, especially these days.

 

And while I admire what der8auer is doing it should not be almost mandatory to delid in order to compensate for a manufacturer failing to get basic things right in designing a CPU.

[cylix]

 

[jaybee83]

7 hours ago, cylix said:

 

 

very cool, i had already seen that it was possible to adjust or disable the temp target away from the 95C, and here it is!

 

but lets be honest guys: dont we do exactly the same when overclocking manually? we maxx out power, amperage, cooling, voltage and then either hit a brick wall with silicon quality of with thermals. AMD is now basically automating this so that everything is maxxed out until it hits the temp target.

yes i know, we prefer to do stuff manually and have BOTH max clocks AS WELL as ice cold temps. but for the everyday user this is pretty neat to have.

[Papusan]

Look from 11:20

 

Zen 4 sell horrible. Maybe the need for the  full package is too much to swallow? Next on the list who will have horrible sales... Nvidia? Yep, hope so. People have less money nowadys and this will of course stop you from spending all too much on the most expensive tech. And the "new normal from AMD" as 95C wasn't very tempting.

 

 

 

A year old Alder lake is still a thing.... 

 

AMD Ryzen 7 7700X Review: 8-Core Zen 4 Can't Quite Top Its 'Alder Lake' Counterpart pcmag.com

 

[Ashtrix]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:29 AM, 1610ftw said:

Wow, these things run HOT!

Nothing that I would want anywhere near a laptop, especially these days.

 

And while I admire what der8auer is doing it should not be almost mandatory to delid in order to compensate for a manufacturer failing to get basic things right in designing a CPU.

 

The thing is why AMD went with Thicker IHS is many reasons one is the LGA1718 backplate and ILM retention system. If you see Intel's LGA1700 has a bending CPU / Mobo behavior to which Intel said nothing and was like it is intended and only fix is to get an aftermarket part for DIY. But with AMD's IHS it's strong and thick. Second is cooler compatibility. And AMD's IHS is also rock stable with zero flex on motherboard PCB, CPU PCB+IHS and Backplate tested by Igor's Lab as well.

 

Der8aur's method won't be easy for 99% of the users, he is using Direct Die cooling + a Delid with a custom LM on top plus entire AMD's ILM and Backplate are totally removed as well. So how does it impact the long run mechanical aspect of the AM5 board in use ? Nobody knows. If we watch the video of his i9 11900K it also saw a reduction of temperatures by similar amount because again that's a direct die.

 

Plus note how Ryzen 5000 delid is a total failure, we even saw one chip getting wasted in the process here in the Benchmark thread that too performed by Rockit themselves. Because of various factors esp  how AMD's CPUs have MCM design, the proper heat distribution from IODie 6nm chiplet and Zen 4 5nm chiplet it must happen in a very natural matter not influencing the other by thermodynamics heat transfer behavior and ruin the performance. 

 

All in all its a design engineering from AMD on all fronts - Therodynamics, Mechanical stress, MCM factor and more. I really cannot think of AMD failing on designing such a high tech component, they also make the world's fastest HPC / Datacenter x86 processors which are ofc LGA only. I personally think that method of his is for strict OC and those Extreme Enthusiasts only and not to be considered as a realistic option for retail.

 

The Curve Optimizer is a cool feature to tame but Optimum Tech's video is -30 offset, that is unrealistic by monumental proportions. If we see the Zen 3 behavior on OCN threads with Curve Optimizer, there's a swath of reports on it being unstable even with -20 to -15, and the heavy high core processors with individual CO offset plus stability testing = ultra work. Add the Core Recycler too. I would say a mild voltage offset undervolt along with a custom TDP by a few 10-20W would be better approach, since many of the silicon be it CPU or GPU are higher voltage out of factory, for that mean distribution of nominal boost / default settings so getting that best spot would improve things... I could be wrong, since it's just my thinking.

 

[jaybee83]

On 9/30/2022 at 2:46 AM, Papusan said:

Look from 11:20

 

Zen 4 sell horrible. Maybe the need for the  full package is too much to swallow? Next on the list who will have horrible sales... Nvidia? Yep, hope so. People have less money nowadys and this will of course stop you from spending all too much on the most expensive tech. And the "new normal from AMD" as 95C wasn't very tempting.

 

 

 

A year old Alder lake is still a thing.... 

 

AMD Ryzen 7 7700X Review: 8-Core Zen 4 Can't Quite Top Its 'Alder Lake' Counterpart pcmag.com

 

 

still too early to tell, most people willing to upgrade are likely waiting for RPL, GPUs and B650 for AM5 (which MLID mentions, as well). but in general this is not surprising, after the pandemic craze where EVERYONE and their dog bought hardware nobody is willing to upgrade again already (except the crazy few here at NBT haha). 

 

also, regarding that 95C, its just a temp target that u can disable or adjust as you see fit. most reviewers just dont mention that part 😛 

[Papusan]

11 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

also, regarding that 95C, its just a temp target that u can disable or adjust as you see fit. most reviewers just dont mention that part 😛 

Yep. Dell was one of the first that offered crippling of Intel processors... Google TCC Offset. You can also castate Intel chips.

 

If you need to cripple the Cpu... Maybe buy an different lower end SKU.  Oh'nooo. Even the weaker lower core Zen 4 chips run 95C, HaHa 🙂 

 

Gone is the days you could use an mid range air-cooler for modern desktop processors.

20 hours ago, Papusan said:

Look from 11:20

 

Zen 4 sell horrible. Maybe the need for the  full package is too much to swallow? Next on the list who will have horrible sales... Nvidia? Yep, hope so. People have less money nowadys and this will of course stop you from spending all too much on the most expensive tech. And the "new normal from AMD" as 95C wasn't very tempting.

 

 

 

A year old Alder lake is still a thing.... 

 

AMD Ryzen 7 7700X Review: 8-Core Zen 4 Can't Quite Top Its 'Alder Lake' Counterpart pcmag.com

 

The sales of Zen 4 goes so slow that retailers need to offer free parts, LOOL

 

U.S. Retailer Gives Free 32GB DDR5-5600 Kit with Ryzen 7000 CPU tomsshardware.com
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/us-retailer-gives-free-32gb-ddr5-5600-kit-with-ryzen-7000-cpus

[Mr. Fox]

On 9/28/2022 at 2:03 PM, jaybee83 said:

yes i know, we prefer to do stuff manually and have BOTH max clocks AS WELL as ice cold temps. but for the everyday user this is pretty neat to have.

There were a lot of things I despised about the 5950X, but PBO was enough that had it been the only thing wrong with it I still would want nothing to do with it. It sucked real bad. I know the lazy gamer kids that don't want to learn how to overclock the right way like it, but it makes no difference to me what the everyday user/gamer likes. It's AMD's job to care about that. That they do like it sends a strong message about it. I hate Intel TVB just as much, and for the same reasons.

 

I overclocked it manually and got much better results, but some of the fanboyz seemed irritated that my results destroyed their hypothesis that PBO mediocrity was better.

[jaybee83]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

There were a lot of things I despised about the 5950X, but PBO was enough that had it been the only thing wrong with it I still would want nothing to do with it. It sucked real bad. I know the lazy gamer kids that don't want to learn how to overclock the right way like it, but it makes no difference to me what the everyday user/gamer likes. It's AMD's job to care about that. That they do like it sends a strong message about it. I hate Intel TVB just as much, and for the same reasons.

 

I overclocked it manually and got much better results, but some of the fanboyz seemed irritated that my results destroyed their hypothesis that PBO mediocrity was better.

nah no one said PBO is better than manual. at least so far absolutely none of those "automatic" oc algos are better than good ol' manual elbow oc grease 🙂 its about how much of the whole potential oc range u can make accessible to the every day joe user without him/her having to do any manual tuning.

and just because the leftover oc headroom gets smaller because of that, us manual tuners cannot get mad at the chips being "worse overclockers". its just that less headroom is left for us to tickle out of it via manual tuning. thus, less additional range to make us stand out from the average crowd. but that shouldnt be the overall goal, cuz that would just be aristocratic elitism and trying to leave out as many users as possible from getting max performance.

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

nah no one said PBO is better than manual. at least so far absolutely none of those "automatic" oc algos are better than good ol' manual elbow oc grease 🙂 its about how much of the whole potential oc range u can make accessible to the every day joe user without him/her having to do any manual tuning.

and just because the leftover oc headroom gets smaller because of that, us manual tuners cannot get mad at the chips being "worse overclockers". its just that less headroom is left for us to tickle out of it via manual tuning. thus, less additional range to make us stand out from the average crowd. but that shouldnt be the overall goal, cuz that would just be aristocratic elitism and trying to leave out as many users as possible from getting max performance.

 

My experience is that when manufacturers give us something automatic they also have the arrogance to take away customizability as they deem not necessary anymore. There rarely are examples of both coexisting.

 

So I understand @Mr. Fox who possibly has observed that, too. I couldn't care less about lazy underachievers getting better performance out of their chips and those who really care about that are getting limited by the manufacturers because they deem their automatic options to be good enough.

 

And if a manufacturer really manages to do extremely well compared to an experienced overclocker/tweaker despite allowing him all the tools that he needs then I will be the first to recommend their products but do not expect too many examples of this any time soon.

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

thus, less additional range to make us stand out from the average crowd. but that shouldnt be the overall goal, cuz that would just be aristocratic elitism and trying to leave out as many users as possible from getting max performance.

But, I am actually all for this, LoL. Seriously, I am for real. I am opposed to normalization and forced equality in any form it takes. If there is no opportunity to establish superiority, rise above the herd, be remarkably better than average, take a dominant position and send the gamerkidz away crying because they want to and don't know how, then I have no interest in it. The joy of overclocking is lost no matter how good the "normal" performance looks when everyone gets roughly the same experience. It might be good for ordinary consumers, but it is no longer exciting to own for an overclocker because it becomes ordinary.

 

Using chilled water with the 5950X provided little benefit because the silicon was already close to maxed out, which made owning it very boring and unstimulating to me as an overclocker. It irked the snot out of me that I could not get it past 4.9GHz stable on all 16 cores/32 threads on chilled water even though the 7980XE was stable at 5.3GHz. That made it feel inferior even though its clear improvement in IPC gave it an edge in benchmarks over the much older CPU.

[1610ftw]

I think there is a place for pre-maxed out hardware and there is a place for hardware with more room for improvement. Intel usually excels in the second domain and AMD more in the first - boring but too close to max performance out of the box. I had a BGA book over with really bad out of the box performance with its 12700H but with a little bit of playing around increases of 20 to 25% in multicore performance were achieved which is a lot more satisfactory then getting something in that cannot be improved even if the performance end result is the same.

 

Ultimately there was no way to adjust voltages and multipliers which is a big no-no but at least a bit of fun could be had with increasing and decreasing power limits to find the sweet spot for multicore benching.

[jaybee83]

19 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

My experience is that when manufacturers give us something automatic they also have the arrogance to take away customizability as they deem not necessary anymore. There rarely are examples of both coexisting.

 

So I understand @Mr. Fox who possibly has observed that, too. I couldn't care less about lazy underachievers getting better performance out of their chips and those who really care about that are getting limited by the manufacturers because they deem their automatic options to be good enough.

 

And if a manufacturer really manages to do extremely well compared to an experienced overclocker/tweaker despite allowing him all the tools that he needs then I will be the first to recommend their products but do not expect too many examples of this any time soon.

agreed, more options is always better. but as far as im aware, implementation of PBO did not take away any manual tuning possibilities. naturally, every arch has its irks and custom stuff that needs to be considered.

 

19 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

But, I am actually all for this, LoL. Seriously, I am for real. I am opposed to normalization and forced equality in any form it takes. If there is no opportunity to establish superiority, rise above the herd, be remarkably better than average, take a dominant position and send the gamerkidz away crying because they want to and don't know how, then I have no interest in it. The joy of overclocking is lost no matter how good the "normal" performance looks when everyone gets roughly the same experience. It might be good for ordinary consumers, but it is no longer exciting to own for an overclocker because it becomes ordinary.

 

Using chilled water with the 5950X provided little benefit because the silicon was already close to maxed out, which made owning it very boring and unstimulating to me as an overclocker. It irked the snot out of me that I could not get it past 4.9GHz stable on all 16 cores/32 threads on chilled water even though the 7980XE was stable at 5.3GHz. That made it feel inferior even though its clear improvement in IPC gave it an edge in benchmarks over the much older CPU.

hm, difficult topic. i 100% get where ure coming from, ive known u long enough in the forums haha. but if were being honest, in the end it all comes down to a pay to win mentality. all the oc skills in the world wont help u if u cant afford to purchase extreme pre-binned hardware of get hundreds off the shelf items to bin urself in the first place. add to that connections to the industry and getting access to hardware early, being able to purchase exotic cooling gear, etc. 

and yes, i get that its possible to get "creative" like brother @Papusan is currently doing with combining older with current hardware to collect oc points on the bot, but even that takes a lot of disposable income.

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

agreed, more options is always better. but as far as im aware, implementation of PBO did not take away any manual tuning possibilities. naturally, every arch has its irks and custom stuff that needs to be considered.

 

I would be fine with that but as I mentioned I always fear that we might lose certain capabilities when companies think that automatic is good enough.

[Reciever]

Since a huge factor of the temperature stems for om the thick ihs I wonder how the next generation of products for mobile will behave? Particularly if they are bare die and/or with ihs (though I can't recall how often amd uses annihs for mobile). 

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Reciever said:

Since a huge factor of the temperature stems for om the thick ihs I wonder how the next generation of products for mobile will behave? Particularly if they are bare die and/or with ihs (though I can't recall how often amd uses annihs for mobile). 

If they run colder be you sure the OEM will either shrink the chassis or save money on the cooling. I saw for a few days ago a video with Travis North (Dell’s thermal engineer) and Intel’s engineering team, said over capacity coolers is wasted money if you can run HW at specs with less powerful cooling. He said etc processors is meant to run at tj-max. 24/7. Because of TAU the boost won’t last forever. Boost clock is for burst loads. Long term load is base clock speed (lower TDP).

[jaybee83]

i wonder if the thick ihs discussion is bad enough, would AMD consider making the package thicker instead for future cpus not to lose compatibility? one could dream haha

[Sandy Bridge]

Ryzen 7000 has not sold out on day 1, but I for one am glad that is the case.  After years of everything selling out except perhaps GTX 1050s, it's refreshing that it's totally unnecessary to stand in line all night to have a chance to buy a new processor.

 

I agree with jaybee83 though, it's too early to say that Zen 4 isn't selling well.  Maybe AMD really did get tons of chips to retail now that TSMC isn't quite so swamped as they were during the pandemic.  Maybe the expensive mobos are slowing sales and once B650 arrives the floodgates will open.  And I agree with jaybee83, 90% of people bought a rig of some sort during the pandemic, so even though it's a good uplift over Zen 3, it's a bit of a tough sell.

 

I'll also admit that I'm in the lazy gamer kid camp when it comes to overclocking these days.  I had fun with manual overclocking and undervolting on my old laptop, both CPU and GPU, but hardware speed improvement has so exceeded my need for speed that I just don't get excited by overclocking like I used to.  Yeah, I'll install Ryzen Master Tuner and play around with the wattage limits, but I doubt I'll go much beyond that.  And that's okay, it's more time that I can spend posting at EFGXT, or pursuing other interests.

 

Still, it's good to know someone's keeping the flame alive.  There's something to be said just for the sake of being able to tune a CPU manually, even if I'm not personally going to push the limits.  I'm still mildly annoyed at my laptop's 2.2 GHz base chip that will overclock all the way to 3.9 or 4.0 GHz on its own without me even telling it how fast it should go.  Yes, it's nice, and it chews through work quickly.  But it was exciting back in the day when Turbo Boost was brand new and you really didn't know how high things could go until you put the numbers in and tried it yourself.