Mr. Fox

I prefer the clear tubing so I can easily see what is going on inside of it. I have some tubing that has been in use for more than 2 years and I am not having any issues. But, if you get really cheap tubing it might not hold up as well. The Corsair tubing is too soft and easily collapses or gets kinked from bending. I use tubing that is fairly stiff and designed to stand up to chemical exposures. In fact, what I usually use is an industrial product and I usually buy it from Home Depot, LOL. It is a bit stiff and unwieldy but it works well considering that most of my loop is external. The runs of tubing inside of the case are fairly straight and flexibility is not as important if everything was kept inside of the case.

Good question. Short answer: no. But, that depends. Case-by-case. Might need to be more often or less often. It depends on what kind of coolant you are using, how clean the loop was at the start, whether you use in-line filters (I do) and how often you take things apart, dump out some of the coolant and replace it with fresh coolant. If you are using straight distilled water it will require more maintenance than something with a biocide and corrosion inhibitor. If you run colored coolant or use aesthetic coloring additives it will plug things up and get kind of nasty. I have very little maintenance using automotive antifreeze/coolant (50/50 premix). It has additives that help it stay clean. It might increase the temps 1-2°C over pure distilled water, but it is definitely worth it. You will start noticing temps getting higher as the fins in the waterblock jet plates get clogged up. That also happens with an AIO, but they are not as user-friendly in terms of ease of maintenance.

7960X and 7980XE ranged between 900W and 1100W from the wall running Cinbench at 5.0GHz all core on chilled water. I had to buy a new circuit breaker and move up to the next amp size just to keep the lights on when benching that monster setup. The lights would still dim a bit, but the circuit breakers held. And, it did slightly melt the insulation on my EPS cables. It was awesome. That was a real metal test of the EVGA SuperNova 1600 P2 and X299 Dark. Both held up like a champ.

Well, the one from NewEgg arrived and I am not impressed. SP92 overall, P99, E80, MC82. Hopefully, the one from Amazon will be better so I can send this crappy sample back to NewEgg to sell to a gamerboy. That is at the bottom of the barrel from the samples the Igor's Lab binned. 100%. They're easier and better if you set them up right from the start. If you build it closed loop like an AIO you're not doing yourself any favors.

While the precise cause is speculation, there does seem to be a direct correlation to using an AMD GPU. He installed an old 1070 Ti and the stuttering problem disapeared. He then installed his old 6700 XT and the problem returned. He used DDU to remove the AMD drivers and installed his new 7900 XTX using an older driver. It seemed like everything was resolved, but he installed the latest AMD driver a couple of days later and the stuttering returned to his 7900 XTX. So, it does seem to be GPU/AMD driver related. I also had some stuttering with the 6900 XT in some games, as well as other goofy glitches with desktop icon rendering and rendering of text in Micro$oft Office products. What I think, and again only speculation, is that AMD is following the silly path of Micro$lop and focusing way too much on power management instead of allowing the GPU to do what is best for performance at the exclusion of all other considerations. Focusing on using as little power as possible almost always results in undesirable performance behaviors. Trying to have it both ways is generally a fool's errand. Striving for dynamic clock behavior algorithms often produces undesirable results as well.

The guy that bought my Z690 Dark purchased a 7900XTX to use in it and he has been pulling his hair out with stuttering problems with games. Trying to help him out, came across this that might help. https://community.amd.com/t5/drivers-software/here-is-a-solution-for-stuttering-issue-on-radeon-cards/td-p/653693

"Security" and "vulnerability" patches have never been something that I burn any calories fretting over. The best protection is to not be stupid, but the notion that being secure is possible with computer technology is on the same level of dumb as Santa Claus and the Easter Binny. Probably hmscott When crApple fanbois cry "OUTLIER!!!" the best approach is to respond "Out liar" and point towards the door.

Honestly, the MC SP rating is not all that meaningful on 13th Gen. Among the 13900K/KS chips I have had they ranged from SP78 to SP87 and all of them overclocked the memory stable using the same timings and voltage, so unless you are trying to run 9000+ with tight timings I don't know that the MC SP rating is that critical. I can't see any behavioral difference in the MC SP78 than I do with the SP87. Since I had not intended to buy a 14900K at this point in time I have not paid a lot of attention to know if the MC SP rating matters more on 14th Gen than it does on 13th Gen. As often as I see variance in SP ratings for the P- and E-core randomly on both of my ASUS motherboards I don't have a huge amount of trust in their importance. I've seen my SP ratings sudden tank for no reason while the CPU is running the same, then powering down and switch to a different BIOS chip it goes back to normal. I may have to flash up or down to a different firmware version and then back again for the SP ratings to return to their previous values, but in the meanwhile nothing changed with the behavior or performance of the CPU in conjunction with an erroneously reported SP rating. There is definitely some truth to that. With an AIO you get an inferior waterblock cold plate, comparatively very weak pump, very low flow rate and minuscule coolant volume. Better than air cooling by a little bit, but no comparison to a custom loop with a well engineered cold plate, strong pump, high flow rate and much, much larger volume of coolant. If they made an AIO that worked the same as a custom loop it would take up a whole lot more space and be so expensive that you would be better off building a custom loop instead.

I won't pay the EK GPU block premium or the Optimus premium. Not worth it at all. You're paying for a brand name and slightly different aesthetics and gaining little or nothing in terms of results unless you buy something that was poorly designed and below average to begin with. In that case you're making major sacrifices just to save a buck, which is also not a respectable option. If you're going to make sacrifices to save a few bucks, then just stick with the stock air cooler and spend nothing. For me it needs to be about $200 or less or it represents poor value. The Bykski blocks and the Alphacool block I just purchased for the Gigabyte 4090 have all been under $180. I hope it does not turn out that way. That would really suck. I've really viewed the 14900K as a meaningless sideshow if you own a decent 13900KS. That being said, I am not willing to pay an extra $200 for a brand new 13900KS at this point. The 14900K makes good sense as an upgrade from something less than a 13900KS, but not really an intelligent purchase for good bin 13900KS owners. If the 14900KS costs as much or more than the 13900KS did, I will skip the priviledge being offered to throw money in the toilet and just wait until I can buy a used one that has a known good SP rating for less money. Better to buy a nice used car and let someone else take the loss on depreciation. I apply the same logic to CPUs now. I forgot that I had a $200 credit waiting for me at NewEgg when I ordered the 14900K from Amazon last night, so I ordered one from NewEgg after requesting to cancel the Amazon order. Now Amazon said it is too late, so it seems two will be arriving tomorrow. I guess I will check which one is better and return the one that is inferior. Unless I somehow get lucky on both, in which case I might just keep both and sell the SP108 13900K or save it as a spare. The delidded SP117 would run nice and cool in the mini-ITX setup. IceMan Cooling also has LGA 1700 bare die frames now, so I might even be able to run it bare die with the AIO. Funny observation. The Celeron max core temp under a stress test on the Apex with the big custom loop was 28°C. The min/max core temps were within 2°C of idle temperature, LOL.

I would if it were a two-DIMM mobo, but I won't purchase another four-DIMM motherboard unless it is HEDT and each stick is a discreet memory channel. The two per channel sucks. For some reason there are hardly any two slot enthusiast mobos, which is idiotic because those with four suck at memory overclocking and are the exact opposite of an enthusiast product. The Tachyon is like the Unify-X. They made enough for people to want one, then quietly vanished. Seems almost like a publicity stunt. The code 00 has generally meant a dead mobo for me as well. The last one was the Z490 Apex and when the mobo died it took that 10900KF with it. The 13900K that died in the Z690 Apex has code 55, so I am guessing the mobo did something to fry the memory controller on the CPU. Code 55 is memory not detected. Just for giggles, I tried that 13900K and it still shows code 55 in whatever mobo it is installed in. I'd even entertain trying another AssRock mobo again if it were a two-DIMM model versus going with ASUS again the next time. ASUS is just a sucky company that makes overpriced half-assed garbage. I ordered a 14900K on Amazon. I hope it's a decent silicon sample. It will be here tomorrow. I really didn't want to waste $500+ on a relabeled 13900KS. @tps3443what's an average or better P/E/MC SP rating for 14900K? What are your SP ratings @Papusan and @Talon?

I bet you won't use it any more. 😞 You can bet your booty I will never use or install it ever again. And, you know the goons at ASUS would never in a million years accept responsibility for it. When the Z490 Apex died and killed the 10900KF they replaced the motherboard and blew me off on the CPU it killed. Wasn't their problem. Intel paid for the CPU (refunded my purchase price because none were in stock to replace it). I wonder if that is what killed the last one in the Z690 Apex. I had TurboV Core on that system as well.

I dropped my Celeron test CPU into the Apex and it is running, so it is the SP112 CPU that it killed. The SP108 is in the mini-ITX system. I wish it would have been that one. The SP112 has a 120 P-core SP rating the same as the SP117. ASUS sucks. I wish it would have been the motherboard as well. Easier to replace than a nice CPU sample. I will try putting the 13900KS back into it again tomorrow and pray for a miracle. If no luck I guess I will have to waste money on a 14900K that would not have been necessary and hope it's not a worse silicon sample.

I think TurboV Core just killed the SP112 13900KS in my white Apex. 🤢 I launched it and tried to move the voltage a bit and when I clicked apply the system powered off and now I get Q-code 00 and the red CPU light comes on. I did the BIOS flashback from a USB drive after clearing CMOS did nothing. It flashed successfully and when I powered back on it still has 00 and red light. This really sucks. This is the second 13900KS that has died when installed in an ASUS motherboard. In fact, every CPU that I have owned that died, if memory serves me correctly, was installed in an ASUS motherboard when it died. My 10900KF golden sample died while installed in a Apex. Edit: I guess I am not the only one. I think in this case it killed the guy's CPU and mobo. https://rog-forum.asus.com/t5/intel-700-600-series/asus-turbo-vcore-killed-my-z690-asus-apex-and-12900k/td-p/874202 I hate ASUS. I guess I will try the CPU in another system and see if it boots.

Yes, that is definitely likely as well. Following the thread at Overclock.net, if I tune my LLC the way most of them are suggesting (which I did on the Encore) so that the VID and VCore match under load my power draw goes way up. It may not be accurate, but tuning it that way may cause the sensors to have false readings. If I put AC and DC LLC at 0.01 each the power draw readings are like 100W less and the VID is higher than the VCore under load.

Correct. It may not be accurate, but it is what the BIOS is telling HWiNFO64. I don't have any control over that. I do remember posting that, but it might have been when the CPU was still in the mini-ITX motherboard. I can't recall now. For perspective, here is the white Apex with the chiller cooling the water to 16°C. Note the wattage. This is the SP112 CPU so it pulls 1.300V under load versus the SP117 only needing 1.270V. Other than the extra 0.030V needed, the rest of the BIOS settings are the same as the Encore without chilled water. Power draw is the same (according to HWiNFO64). Can't tell you if that is accurate or not, only what it reads. And, Benchmate gets the info from HWiNFO64.

As best I can tell from your screenshots, your VID and VCore load values are nearly identical to mine. About 1.270V under full tilt load.

Not sure how you are able to do that other than with chilled water. As mentioned, under load my CPU is drawing 1.270V.

No, with manual voltage. Auto voltage is out of control sky high and dangerous, and extremely hot.

It's totally normal. Are you capping your power limit? Every single 10th, 12th and 13th Gen CPU I have owned hits power draw numbers like this in Cinebench R23. So did the 5950X, at much lower clock speeds. At 6.0GHz all P-core sync is it over 600W.

Yes. With the IHS it will go to like 105°C and blue screen running the same BIOS settings in Cinebench R23. Anything above 57x all P-core was unstable in Cinebench R23 due to extreme heat before delid and bare die. This is on the system with the Nova 1080 radiator, no chiller and no 5-gallon reservoir, so it has to work a lot harder than our systems with 5-6 times more liquid.

No, look again. It is 1.270V under load. It goes up to 1.380V at idle, which is normal. Benchmate grabs the highest voltage, not the accurate voltage. (Benchmate is not as special as some like to pretend it is. But, it makes pretty screenshots for HWBOT, LOL.) My water is 29°C, so about 3-4°C hotter than ambient. I might have added the second screenshot before you refreshed the page, so maybe you did not see it. This is on the system with the Nova 1080 radiator, no chiller and no 5-gallon reservoir, so it has to work a lot harder than our systems with 5-6 times more liquid.

No. Totally normal. You've forgotten what it is like to run a system without chilled water. Voltage, power and temps are all MUCH higher even with a golden silicon sample. With chilled water even a mediocre CPU can do things a golden sample can't do if cooling with ambient water temperatures. I just ran this. My ambient temperature is 74°F (24°C). 561W and 92°C, and that's bare die. My AC and DC are fully tuned and run exactly the same value under load. Only using 1.270V under load.

Easily above 550W and over 100°C. Without even trying. Even with my SP117 CPU running the lowest possible borderline stable voltage. Ambient cooling (air or water) within an air conditioned room (70-73°F) won't get you anywhere. It's nice being able to use chilled water 24/7 if you have that ability, but that's not a normal real-world scenario. The best SP-rated CPU in the world won't run low power and low voltage if cooled using ordinary measures in normal ambient temperatures. As soon as the water in the loop normalizes it will become unmanageable and start breaking 100°C and chugging close to 600W with an all P-core 60x overclock. And, that's one of the things that makes it awesome. Simply because it can.

This isn't for points, just a down and dirty run to confirm overclocking ability of the Gigabutt Gaming OC GPU. The stock vBIOS is voltage knee-capped at 1.070V like all of the new cancer GPU firmware. *SMH* BUT, nothing that a quick flash to the Galax vBIOS can't fix. Now it has a less castrated 1.100V voltage limit. Before it would crash above about 2950MHz on core, but now 3000+ is doable. Memory has no problem with +1500 so far. Don't know if it can run +1700 like the Suprim can, but I will find out when I have time to test it on chilled water. So far everything I can see tells me this is a good GPU. Max and Average on clocks and voltage...