Mr. Fox

And, it looks like AMD has mirepresented the performance. They essentially accomplished nothing in two years. So, long story short, if you prefer AMD and want to move from AM4 to AM5 your best option is to upgrade to a last generation CPU. Our truth remains unchanged @Papusan. Newer is always better newer.

Must be why the price is lower. Lower base clock Only 100 Mhz higher boost clock Poor DDR5 overclocking Dramatically lower TDP Minimal or no performance improvements depending on workload It is a new CPU downgrade. That's pretty disappointing for my friends and family that like AMD. It is sad that so many things suck in the computer space right now. Lots of people are all emo about motherboard BIOS settings damaging Intel CPUs but when you zoom out it is pretty sucky by all measurements.

You cannot have an intelligent conversation with people like that. They are beyond help and they like believing what they want to believe. And he is wrong. They are all equally bad, at least among Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Micro$lop, Crapple, Google, etc. You cannot trust any large company/industry (big tech, big pharma, etc.) or government to do what is best for the people it exists to serve exploit. That is not a conspiracy theory. It's an observation of their behavior.

This is the technology space we are talking about, so there is an underlying agenda or self-serving purpose somewhere. No company that operates in this realm ever does anything because it is the right thing to do for the people that purchase products. The price is lower because they can still make a profit and the lower price is forecast to make them more money in another way. At the very least they will profit on the heels of the calamity the media has crafted and the irrational behavior of consumers that will follow. That is already happening. At least half of what the world believes about everything is untrue, but they believe it because it is on TV and on the internet and at least half of the people are not smart enough to think for themselves.

Lots of new B650 broken gamerboy trash boards hitting store shelves. These motherboard manufacturers should be ashamed for release rubbish like this. They must not care about maintaining a good brand image and reputation.

That is the right thing to do, and extending it to OEM/tray CPUs is above and beyond what they are required to do. I do wonder if they are going to take the "no questions asked" high road approach or take the low road and ask if the CPU had been overclocked, set for eTVB or XMP applied and still declare the warranty void for the users that dare to answer honestly. All of the folks hoping for a microcode update really need to pull their heads out of their butts and be careful about what they hope for. Intel blocked voltage control for turdbook CPUs some time ago and things have never been right since then. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. The answer is not microcode updates or setting restrictions, but safe and sane firmware defaults.

The only reason to not recommend Intel is that most users have no idea how to manually tune their CPU and the mere thought of entering the BIOS is utterly terrifying to many of them. Many of them are buying cheaper CPUs and motherboards that are "good enough for gaming" so the i9 "problem" the media is chirping about may not even apply to many of them. I think there's a small group of them that buy the best even though they don't have a clue how to use it. In their case, it may be like giving a razor-sharp Samurai sword to a child and expecting them to not get hurt, or not hurt someone else, with it.

That's pathetic. Seems like 8000 Royal is about 2 years late to the party. And, the TPU article is 20 pages of worthless information. It is as ugly as it always has been and will overheat with their half-assed approach to thermals. What do you reckon makes this RGB "excellent" compared to others? Maybe the mere fact that is has RGB makes it qualify for being called excellent in the mind of the reviewer? So anything that has RGB is going to be automatically assigned the mantle of being excellent? Nothing to see here, boys and girls... now go clean your room, and don't forget to brush your teeth. Dufus spent a lot more time on this than necessary, but I agree with his thoughts (as usual). Seems like the YouNoob influencers are making this bigger than it should be and taking it personal that a huge multi-billion dollar corporation isn't responding in a way that they think is appropriate. I am starting to feel like I am watching the retarded woke lefty broads on The View with some of their videos.

This is one I had not seen before. Kind of a symphonic techno. Different.

I agree. I do not embrace their solutions, but I thought the issue itself was approached intelligently and not tainted by any kind of emotion or fanboy finger-pointing that Intel went too far trying to beat AMD. I do not agree with that. I think the methodology behind the "AI" and eTVB (and PBO on AMD) overclocking is a flawed and problematic approach that has effectively shown itself to be folly for both Intel and AMD. AMD's response was to limit their CPU overclocking abilities to keep the CPUs from being killed, which is a sucky approach that ignores the real problem, and I sure hope Intel doesn't take this lazy way out. I limit the Vcore max in the BIOS as well, so that any overshoots or spikes are capped. For example, my 13900KS can run 60x all P-core and 48x all E-core synced Cinebench-stable with manual Vcore set at 1.400V. On the CPU power menu I have L7 LLC set with AC and DC LLC set at 0.010 and capped the Vcore at 1.500V. No issues. I find the voltage needed for my other CPUs in the same way and lock it down. No degradation that I can find. Those benchmarks I ran yesterday at 6.0GHz and 8600 on memory were run to confirm nothing has changed since I last went on a number-chasing spree. And, no surprise to me, nothing had changed. While my core and package temperatures end up being a few degrees higher, I think the trade-off is safety and stability. If it gets too hot it will thermal throttle (as has been the case for years) but it won't grenade itself with insane voltage spikes trying to boost off the charts. The early guidance in the ASUS Z790 overclocking tutorials at oc.net suggest capping the Vcore at 1.700V is safe, but I don't see any reason to set it that high. I am also not convinced that tuning LLC to attempt to match the load VID and load Vcore, allowing high idle voltage and crazy load vdroop is a good idea. Way too much variance and wild swings in the highs and lows for me to think that is a smart idea. I'm pretty sure the old school way of doing things is usually the best way, and overclocking is no exception. The new and not-so-improved thermal-controlled dynamic clocking and algorithm-based voltage control nonsense is for the birds.

So, I found a factory heatsink and backplate to allow me to convert the Aorus RTX 2080 Ti Xtreme Waterforce GPU to air so I can use it in place of the much weaker Titan in the Rampage IV Gene system. Ordered from AliExpress.

I don't run these memory clocks very often because there is no real-world benefit, but it still works. 8400 CL38 is my daily driver and the performance is almost the same, but requires substantially less VCCSA and VDD and VDDQ. It looks fancy in screenshots though.

Indeed. It would mark the end of my interest in computers. I would own what I needed for work and spend as little as possible on that. Ultimately, I would no longer contribute anything on YouTube, or in technology-based social media, (which already is the only form of social media I actively participate in,) and probably abandon what little interest I left have in gaming. (The lack of interest has more to do with the repulsive selection of games than the act of gaming.) Literally everything I do for recreational enjoyment is either directly or loosely associated with overclocking in one form or another. It would become a totally pointless endeavor for me. While it is certainly fun to set memory clock and AIDA64 read benchmark records and gather a few points on HWBOT, once that notch is added to your belt there is virtually no benefit that I can identify moving from 8200 to 8400 to 8600. Above 8000 it is hard to measure a difference in anything other than a memory benchmark. Other than maybe Geekbench, the vast majority of benchmarks and games and productivity workloads show virtually no quantifiable or meaningful change above 8000. Running Y-cruncher and Prime95 and memory stress tests for hours (or days for some people) is actually more idiotic and harmful than the current stuff everyone is chirping about with Intel degradation. That is not much different than believe being a wife-beater makes your marriage stronger. Super stupid.

If it is the one I sold him it is a phenomenal sample.

Yup, I agree with that. And, if Brother @electrosoft says it is good, you can generally take that to the bank.

I have never used a TEC before, but they seem simple enough that fixing it should not be too difficult if you can confirm what went wrong. If I had to guess it would be the TEC plate itself probably gave up the ghost. Unless there is something proprietary about it, you might be able to replace it with a generic module. I would definitely look into fixing it. Please keep us posted and let us know if you figure it out. Sorry that this happened.

Stihl are excellent. chainsaws. I agree. That was the brand we always bought back in the day that I actually had a use for them. I also like Husqvarna and always loved their amazing dirt bikes. Here is another amazing repair by Tony at Northwest Repair. I posted a comment suggesting that he reattach the I/O bracket reinforcement to the heat pipes using JB Weld. I am 99.9% certain that will be more than strong enough to hold it forever.

You made the right decision. 😆 Newer is always newer. I was still a mechanic when electronic ignition surfaced. I always used Mallory dual-point distributors in my street rods. I had some friends that "upgraded" to MSD electronic ignition kits. The claimed "they never wear out" and "zero maintenance" and I was happy to replace my points and condensor when they got worn out. Very easy and affordable. I laughed at my friends when their ECM failed and they had to save up or work overtime to buy a new one. They were expensive. I reminded them "no moving parts" and "never wear out" and "zero maintenance" was the reason they felt newer was better.

Yes, I already knew this and I suspect you did as well, but speaking about it is unpopular. AMD is often protected as the meek and lowly underdog, but the fanboys rush to crucify the big, mean evil Intel and NVIDIA when they make mistakes. One of my sons prefers AMD and he has had two Ryzen CPUs die in the past two years. He does not overclock. He sets PBO and plays games. I have had Intel CPUs die as well, but only one that I have no idea why. The others were executed courtesy of the incompetent idiots at ASUS. The way I look at it is this: pick your poison. None are perfect or free of fault. Decide what you want and buy it. Then deal with whatever happens. Expect the worst. All of them suck and all of them are dishonest. None are honorable or trustworthy. And none of them care about you, your PC, or how it affects you. It's not their problem. We should not expect more from Intel or hold them to a higher standard simply because their failure rate is lower or because their faults are more rare. In the end, what we expect from any of them does not matter. We do not matter. They only care about money, market status and shareholders. They all operate on the same business model.

That is pretty cheap. It's nice to see Linus presenting a rational explanation and it really fits with the fact that manual overclockers are generally having none of the issues. Mostly the gamerboyz that try to use the bugged mobo manufacturer "features" and eTVB garbage and misguided sloppy LLC undervolting mistakes. (I don't agree with the advice at the end to install the latest BIOS update. The better solution would be to suggest manual tuning.)

For those who have drank the Kool-Aid and joined the muppet show of Winduhz 11 apostles, here is some fuel for the fire for those of us that despise the new cancer OS. Windows 11 offers no benefit and is actually harmful to performance. The only thing Winduhz 11 offers is a new level of ugliness for those that prefer a less-useful and tackier-looking GUI. The joke is on Windoze 11 users, but it's not a funny one. Utterly worthless OS downgrade. But, everyone is too busy hating on Intel to talk about this right now.

I saw my posts and forum name and avatar several times at both EVGA and OC.net forums. 🤣 No matter what degree of merit any of this new round of psychotic pablum has, all of the negative publicity is going to be harmful to Intel and it could ultimately be more harmful to overclocking enthusiasts if they start locking things down and interfering with user tuning controls. The media is a two-edged sword and they have the power to create more issues than they solve. GN is certainly a trusted source and I do not doubt the accuracy (very well supported by facts) but I do question whether or not any of it is going to benefit anyone and may end up being more harmful than helpful in the long run. One of my biggest take-aways from all of the hype (and it surfaced a few times in the GN video) is the hidden nugget (unintended and inconvenient truth) that refusing BIOS and OS updates when my systems are functioning the way I want them to is an extremely wise personal best practice that I have abided by for more than a decade and I shall continue doing so indefinitely because it has exempted me, almost entirely, from the stupid nonsense that update evangelists have suffered from. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you do, it will eventually get broken. Nothing I have seen so far changes my fondness for my nicely binned 13th and 14th Gen i9 CPUs and none of it makes me pause to consider the possibility of AMD as a viable option. All of these big tech companies are equally dishonest scumbags that are rotten from head to toe and never let an opportunity to cover their own asses with lies and misrepresentations to slip by them. None of them give a rat's butt about their employees or the people that buy their products. We cannot trust any of them to be honest about anything... ever. The current mess with Intel causes too many of us to forget the past messes, missteps lies and scams from AMD and NVIDIA. Some fairly recent. Speaking of lies and missrepresentations, for those who have drank the Kool-Aid and joined the muppet show of Winduhz 11 apostles, here is some fuel for the fire for those of us that despise the new cancer OS. Windows 11 offers no benefit and is actually harmful to performance. The only thing Winduhz 11 offers is a new level of ugliness for those that prefer a less-useful and tackier-looking GUI. The joke is on Windoze 11 users, but it's not a funny one. Utterly worthless OS downgrade. But, everyone is too busy hating on Intel to talk about this right now.

Yes, I agree.

Sad that they would offer it, and sad that some people will actually go along with the program. We live in an era of rampant stupidity where intelligence is rare and idiocy and foolishness are becoming the new normal.

I forgot to share this. Others may find it useful. The Rampage IV Gene BIOS fan controls are poor (very limited) compared to newer ASUS motherboards. I found this application for manually controlling the AIO pump and fans on the Gene. It works fantastic. And, it is inexpensive. You can try the free version before buying. The default configuration is annoying because it has system tray icons (like Core Temp does) showing values for monitored sensors After fussing with the settings to turn them off and configuring he option to minimize to tray I am very pleased with it. I suspect it will work for most systems, including laptops. I turned off everything except the fan controls. I don't need the monitoring for everything because I use HWiNFO64 for that. https://www.argusmonitor.com/