Mr. Fox

I really do not care for the looks of the Expert. It looks a bit like an FE in some ways and I really do not care for the FE GPUs either. My water block should be here on Monday. This GPU runs freakishly cool for being air cooled, but it should. It is ridiculously huge and takes up way too much space (4 slots) and renders the x4 PCIe slot that I was using unusable. It looks pretty intimidating, too. To be honest I kind of like that, but I don't want to give up using two NVMe drives for the meaningless virtue of it being awesome-looking.

Well, you have to do what makes the most sense for your family and the house it the first priority. You could let the pendulum swing the other way and get an Arc A770, enjoy what a truly fantastic inexpensive GPU it is. You sold your 3090 already and need a GPU right? I can tell you I am as pleased as punch with my A770. When you spend so little and get respectable results it is not hard to lower your expectations. Where that becomes a problem for me is when I spend a lot. It's easier (for me) to be disappointed with the outcome when it wasn't a low-cost option, and easy to feel satisfied when I spent very little on something that just works really well.

I was going to text you and suggest exactly that, but then I just decided to mind my own business and let you do you. I am glad you are thinking that way. We have a similar mindset. I was going to grab a 4080S, then got to thinking about that and changed my mind and bought a second 4090 instead. Do I think the 4090 is a better value? No. In fact, I think the 4080S is a better value. Do I think I would be happy spending less on a second-fiddle GPU? No, I don't. Now, sure... I think buying an Intel CPU for 75% less that performs on par with a 3060 Ti makes perfect sense. That's a no-brainer. But, the 4090 performs substantially better than a 4080S or 7900 XTX. The 4090 will last substantially longer due to the +20% higher performance, creams everything when ray tracing is involved, and it has more vRAM if a person wants to use a GPU for gaming for many years without an upgrade. And, the 4090 will have a much better resale value if an upgrade to 50-series is likely. The way I look at it, the 4080S, and even a 7900 XTX, is similar sitting on the edge of the swimming pool with your legs and feet in the water, scooping up water in your hands and splashing it onto yourself and getting your hair wet, etc... but never actually getting into the pool and swimming. Put a different way... close, but no cigar. Almost is for people playing horse shoes or throwing darts. Nothing wrong with that if it is what floats their boat. But, almost is not my thing. If I am going to save money, it needs to be more than a little bit. I like saving money, but only when it is enough to be meaningful. If it's just a little bit then it feels like a silly compromise instead of a sound decision. I love my Arc A770. It's amazing. And, I love how little I paid for it. I am looking forward to finding out what Battlemage looks like and how much sense it will make financially. The $1500~ decrease in cost is more than meaningful and makes compromising such an easy decision if it gets the job done.

Big-box retailers might be more inclined to fall in line with MSRP recommendations, but I do not believe "marketplace" sellers on Amazon, NewEgg and fleaBay will ever conduct business in an honorable fashion and they will always have a place in the scalper hall of shame until stupid people stop opening their wallets and helping them thrive. If people will stop being stupid, the scalpers won't be successful and will have no option other than finding another shady way of making a buck. Right now we are probably seeing some degree of "monkey-see, monkey-do" shenanigans playing out at the retailer level. If dummies are willing to pay scalper ransoms, the retailers (at least some of them) are going to juice their prices a little bit, just because they can, while not resembling the absurd scalper pricing. The only common retailers that are consistently above-board and respectable with pricing are Micro Center, NewEgg (sold and shipped by NewEgg, non-marketplace), B&H and Best Buy. As a result, they are often sold out on popular products. Micro Center is arguably the best of the best, but they're of zero value to anyone that doesn't live within driving distance of a store. They don't allow online purchases and do not ship products most of us are interested in buying. The most unfortunate thing with Best Buy is they almost never sell enthusiast-level computer components like mobos and GPUs. They cater to mainstream mid- and low-range hardware buyers and their selection of products in the mid- and low-range is also limited. Once in a while Amazon has something on offer (sold and shipped by Amazon, non-marketplace) at the correct price, but they sell out quickly, leaving only the marketplace scalpers with stock available for purchase. Sometimes it is difficult to even find the correctly-priced items on Amazon because they often do not appear in search results and they are eclipsed by the plethora of scummy scalpers.

Yes, it is interesting. GPU prices aside, I would love to see AI development fail hard and cause losses for those that sank their money into it. People that play with fire need to get burned.

Whether or not they are deserving of our respect will be determined by their response. I look forward to finding out how they handle this for you. I am optimistic they will give you a replacement, but that is based on an assumption about their integrity at this point. Adapter flaws aside, Cablemod set the bar on how a company needs to take ownership of their failures. It shouldn't cost the consumer/victim a dime. Yeah, I don't blame you for not wanting to use the pigtail adapter. It is inconvenient having to change out the cables on top of being a butt-ugly contraption. The person(s) responsible for designing such an abortion should find a new line of work. They're obviously not very good at their current job(s).

I found an Alphacool block on sale at Titan Rig and ordered that instead of the Bykski block. It's about $25 less. I've not owned an Alphacool GPU block before, so I am hoping it works as well or better. GPU runs very cool for being on air, but it should because of having a massive heatsink, 7 heat pipes and vapor chamber. Maybe they will send you a replacement cable. Hopefully they will not give you the run-around. How they address this issue will show us if be quiet! is actually worthy of the reputation they have developed. Can you use the insanely ugly stock 12VHPWR adapter with 8-pin connections in the meanwhile? I don't think there is any good way for this connector to be made. It's simply too small and too fragile to ever be good no matter what brand one buys. It has always been an idiotic idea, but we expect nothing less from idiots, so I digress.

No 4090s anywhere. Then the newer and cheaper/better 4080S shows up, scalper prices mostly, in limited stock and then unavailable/sold out within 24 hours of launch. Now, suddenly, 4090s become available again (at least a few days ago) at near MSRP prices. Meanwhile, either nobody wants something less than a 4080 or they have overproduced the inferior budget cards like 4070 Ti Super and below because there is no shortage of them, and never has been. This smells like a scalping scam and market manipulation to me.

Norway is an absolutely beautiful place if you like beautiful scenery and you can tolerate cold weather. One of the prettiest places in the world. Their government is wealthy because they rob their citizens blind. One of the most abusive tax systems in the world. Like California high on Acid and drunk at the same time, with VAT on top. Insane. As much as the US Dollar has declined under failed leadership, wasteful spending, frivolous socialist programs, and mismanaged pork barrel agendas, the exchange rate still has the dollar worth nearly ten times and the Euro around nine times the value of one Krone. The cold weather is definitely a plus for benching. The dark winters are hard on some people that have mental illness problems (and there are many) due to the lack of sunlight. In most ways the scenery and climate are the same as Northwestern Canada and Southern Alaska. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference based on weather and scenery.

And, when you compare this hobby to others that guys are normally into (antique, classic and exotic cars, street rods, motorcycles, boats, ATVs - maybe even more than one of those) it is comparatively inexpensive. You can easily spend 6 digits on some of those things if you are playing for keeps. OK, it's up and running. Once I determine it is a keeper, I will either block it or peel the plastic off and keep the air cooler. I had to remove one of my dual NVMe x4 cards because this behemoth covers the lower x4 PCIe slot. So, there's a good reason to block it even if the temps are fantastic. Because of the Encore moving the x16 slot at the top down and adding a x4 slot above the GPU I was able to keep that one dual NVMe card for now. But, lowering the x16 slot made the excellent GPU support bracket included with the GPU not work. So, the pogo stick is the only option at this time.

When it comes to a flagship/halo product, they are not a "good deal" and they are absolutely overpriced and a horrible value. It's like picking your poison. You choose between lowering the bar and settling for something inferior, or bending over and taking a shot to the wallet. This applies to all flagship components. Mobos, processors, PSUs... the most desirable models offer the poorest value. The pricing doesn't scale well with features and performance.

Why not send that 2080 Ti to Northwest Repair? It probably has something simple wrong with it. I sent him the 2080 Ti FTW3 I used to have for repair due to artifacting and it had one bad memory chip. His prices are reasonable. Go to the info tab on his YouTube channel for the repair request info. I do not know if the same applies to the 4080S, but the 4090 OC Gaming and 4090 Master are the same PCB and essentially the same base GPU. The Master has a larger cooler and an LCD display feature. Alphacool and Bykski use the same block for both of them. The Windforce models are different PCB, take a different block and are a lower tier. Personally, I would not pay double for an EK GPU block. I do like how they look, but they seem to be very overpriced compared to the other options.

This is not my favorite brand, but this is their chance to change my mind. The Aorus 2080 Ti Xtreme Waterforce has shown me they can do things right if they want to. The revision numbers are not fundamentally different from what we've seen with other brands including the Z690 Apex and Z790 Apex both having midlife revisions. From what I understand the difference on this GPU is the newer cooler has an added heat pipe. I will use it a week or two, maybe longer, with the stock air cooler. I had to redo the placement of a couple of things to make room for how long it is. The 3.5-inch HDD caddy and water meter were in the line of fire. The 12VHPWR cable is installed and sitting on the floor, waiting for the 4090's arrival. Yes. The Apex brothers. Battlemage will be an A770 upgrade for their baby sister. Isn't it interesting that you couldn't buy a 4090 if your life depended on it until after 4080S showed up with inadequate stock and instantly sold out everywhere. Now there are several models available at NewEgg, B&H Photo and Amazon with lowered prices. It should be interesting to see how this shenanigan plays into Skynet's plan for the human race.

Well, this deal was too good to pass up. Will have it tomorrow. Price is right and worth the extra IMHO compared to 4080S. This is the same PCB as the Aorus Master GPU, just a different cooler, not the absurdly gigantic Master-size... but Byksi is going to solve that for me. The $200 price drop covers the cost of the $204 Bykski block. https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-4090-gv-n4090gaming-oc-24gd/p/N82E16814932550?

There are also those that do not have disposable cash, but somehow end up with a disposable amount of credit, which they abuse to live beyond their means.

I had been using it in the ITX munchkin PC for about a week, but it was just too darned hot (due to no delid and such a small (360 AIO) thermal solution. Word on the price:performance thing. That's why some of us buy a 4090. Going to the opposite end of the spectrum is actually more attractive to me than settling for something somewhere in the middle. If I can't (or don't want to) pay for the best, then I might as well spend as little as possible and only as much as I have to in order to get the job done in a palatable way. If I can't win, then I am not interesting in playing. No point in it. That's not how everyone thinks, but it is how I do. Messed up? Yeah, probably.

I still haven't delidded it, but I moved the SP117 13900KS to the Apex Encore. I relidded the SP108 13900KS and installed it in my little Munchkin PC. Moving the delidded SP108 CPU to the baby beast made a huge improvement in thermals. Not too shabby for such a little guy with only a 360 AIO. I think I have enough headroom now to bump the multis by 1x for P and E cores. But, the SP117 defintely needs to go bare die to stretch its legs properly. Even with lower voltage it is running hotter than the bare die CPU did with higher voltage, which is certainly to be expected.

Sorry to hear at least a couple of your reasons. Yeah, Jensen needs to be booted. He can go to work for the CCP and then let's see how his outlook changes. The root problem is dishonesty and greed, not "market forces" unless you count manipulation and racketeering as market forces. (They are not.) Things have gone down the crapper here as well due to lack of leadership and extremely poor decisions made by idiots and losers making decisions for the rest of us. I came very close to buying a 4090 Aorus Master today, for the correct price. I put it in my shopping cart and waited, then removed it. I thought about Battlemage and decided I can wait to see what happens next. But, it was very tempting. Munkin is back in the office, on a small wheeled platform. I put Banshee back where she belongs (not on the floor) and now use a KVM to switch between them. I haven't used a KVM in years. I managed to find one with three DisplayPort outputs so I can use all three of my work monitors without having to unplug or downgrade to 60Hz HDMI on one of them. So, all three running 144Hz+ for both PCs. Simple press of a button to flip between the two computers. It works flawlessly. All of my USB hubs and everything work the same as if they were connected to just one PC. This is the KVM switch that I bought. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CLRRH9Q9 Most of them are 2xDP + 1xHDMI or only support two monitors. This was the only one I could find that supports three DP with 4K@120Hz that was not an outrageous price.

Maybe in UK, but the only place you can find them in the US is from eBay and Amazon scalpers charging 125-150% of MSRP. You can pre-order from BLT or Provantage and wait an undisclosed period of time for the manufacturer to ship it, but otherwise there is no stock. The dual 12VHPWR is the best thing about it. It should be standard for all brands on 4080 S and 4090. It would have likely eliminated the melting connector problem almost entirely unless both connectors where not properly seated. It's unfortunate that Galax charge a lot and sell inferior silicon samples. I'd go a step further and call it unethical. Overclocking is the only reason to buy one, and if it doesn't deliver on the reason you bought it, then... well... you got screwed. Real bad. Unique aesthetics aside, AIRO Extreme has more phases than the average 4090 and is a better product than the typical gamerboy GPU. The Trinity is the gamerboy Zotac GPU. It's no better than an entry level MSI, Gigabyte or PNY card. For just playing games, or doing other normal everyday things that use a GPU, the build quality doesn't matter as long as it meets NVIDIA's minimum spec standards. The effectiveness of the air cooler and how much coil whine you have to deal with is probably the only thing that distinguishes one versus another for normal daily use scenarios. The majority are just belly-button GPUs and all of them have gimped firmware.

I chose the Suprim specifically because it has more power phases for core and memory, and better quality components for the VRMs than the other 4090s (excluding Galax HOF). It is built better than the Strix or the FE, which are second and third, respectively. None of that is going to keep a GPU from failing due to improper installation and allowing the GPU to twist or hang in the slot without proper support. They all have a PCB that fits into the PCIe slot, so they can't make it thicker than the slot allows. The heavier the GPU is, the more likely it is to end up with torn pads on memory ICs and under the GPU core. Supporting the weight of it to prevent twisting and flexing of the PCB is essential. Failure is likely and predictable if these measures are not taken.

it is sized right for that, but it just doesn't "feel" right. It feels like something is wrong using it this way.

It is sized right for a living room TV PC/console replacement. My little hotbox would be good for that, too.

Excellent review, brother. Very detailed and professionally written. It does not look like Enterprise has created the associated thread yet. Once he has I will post there. It would be interesting to see a 360 radiator mounted to the outside of it. Or, a completely self-contained custom loop like my other desktops. I cannot tell if there is a good place to have tubing exiting that chassis. It looks really good though. Seems they put a lot of thought into the design of it. Looks like the 4080 Super is going to be as scarce as the 4090. Sold out everywhere other than the dishonest Amazon scalpers ready to screw anyone dumb enough to fall for it. There was a PNY 4080S for $999 that the seller has jacked the price up $150, probably because he saw his peers are screwing the Amazon customers irrational enough to pay more than MSRP for a GPU. They're basically selling 4080S for the 4090 MSRP. Seems there is never a shortage of stupid people willing to act like an idiot with their wallets. It isn't "what the market bears" so much as what morons are willing to allow scalpers to get away with. Like Forest Gump said...

A new masterpiece from Brother Tom... sweet. Loving the message and the good men behind the message. And a couple of good recent releases... especially like the first one.

Amen to that. Less government, less regulation and more autonomy is the solution, not more. We already have too many laws that we shouldn't have, don't need to have, and don't enforce those that should be. Over-regulation and governmental overreach is one of the reasons why things are as screwed up as they are. It applies to technology as well as nearly every other aspect of our lives.