Mr. Fox

From what I understand, things are really funky now with the NPU and fabric crap but the E-core voltage is adjustable independently from the P-core voltage. The tiled nonsense sure does jack up the memory latency though. Very much like Ryzen in that respect, unfortunately. It is very intriguing while pretty disgusting at the same time. Microcenter get any 285K in stock yet? Seems like this happens every time. The part most in demand isn't available on launch day except in single-digit quantities with merchants, or not even at all. I am still tempted to buy a Taichi OCF. If I do (still not sure I will) it won't be until 285K is available. The Z890 platform looks great and I love a lot of things about that motherboard, but I am not very keen on Core Ultra so far. I don't really give a rat about gaming performance. The compute performance looks really good even though the memory latency looks pitiful compared to Raptor Lake. It is sad that Intel caved in and moved to a glued together mess like AMD. That monolithic design, even with the crappy E-cores, was one of the things that set them apart as superior. Now their part of the belly-buttons and buttholes club, doing what is popular instead of what is good, and stooping to partnering with TSMC. Today Mrs. Fox and I celebrate 38 years of marriage. Seems weird to even say that. Sometimes I forget that I am not 38 years old, LOL.

So, I had to step in and defend Mr. Potty-Mouth... LOL... https://www.overclock.net/posts/29385760/ I am not aware of any American sites that had any 285K stock that they could "sell out" because it was never in stock. Hardly anyone owns one. I guess if you have 10 and sell all 10 that qualifies as selling out, LOL. I am not sure if that is accurate about other places. It seems like the only group that have most of them are Asian countries. I only see a few rare and random scalper offerings on the 285K that are priced for idiots.

I don't really pay much attention to either of those guys. Most of their videos are clickbait and merely a platform for their expressions of personal bias and speculation. I don't have much respect for them anymore. Even when what they are saying is true, it's really slanted and framed in such a way as to stir up controversy. Stop and think of how many similarities there are between now and 30-45 days ago. Everyone hated Zen 5 because the focus was on using less power and not face-melting performance gains. Same game, new target. Who and what will be the next target? There always has to be drama. It seems to be essential.

This is probably accurate with respect to the Core Ultra line as a whole, but I don't see any market having 285K availability. Only the 285K really matters and it's not available for the most part. Most people in most places can't buy it even if they wanted it because nobody has any stock. If the extremely limited and nearly non-existent supply of 285K processors are only listed for purchase at inflated scalper prices it makes perfect sense that nobody is buying them. They shouldn't buy them and would be silly to do so. (The only 285K CPUs that I see for sale are few and far between, for asinine prices, and primarily from sketchy sellers that shouldn't be trusted.) I could see there being little or no interest in the lesser CPUs. If someone already owns a mid- or low-range CPU from 13th or 14th Gen there is no reason I can think of that they should want to spend money on something newer in the mid- or low-range. A month ago the media mantra was the same, except nobody wanted Zen 5. Now the popular story is nobody wants Core Ultra. This is becoming a pattern with the media. I would apply the same logic when the media was buzzing about Zen 5 sales being in the toilet. Only the flagship really matters to enthusiasts. And, gamers truly don't need any new hardware to game unless they own an antiquated system. A CPU and motherboard upgrade are too expensive and would yield little benefit to anyone if the pursuit is gaming. It irks me that system builders have stock and people can buy a prebuilt with the newest hardware, but the components are often not available in retail channels. This has been frequently true since the days of 8700K. That's messed up and I think it is indicative of inter-industry collusion.

Yes. Seems like a trend whenever next gen parts hit store shelves. Was an issue with most recent Intel, AMD and NVIDIA product launches. It is usually the flagship or halo SKU that is most affected. I think demand is never as massive as the media plays it to be, but low supply gives the impression of high demand and creates a feeling of success that may be exaggerated and more perception than reality. It does seem like supply is often an issue when TSMC is involved as well. Supply of low- and mid-range components (where poor silicon quality is less of a factor) is always better because they know the sheeple like cheap and they produce more of the cheap stuff for the zombie horde. If there was a 14th Gen CPU with 16 hyperthreaded P cores (32 thread) or a 15th Gen Z890 option that was equivalent P-cores (32 thread) and no tiled feces I would jump on either one in a heartbeat. Heck, I would even consider a monolithic 15th Gen with 32 E-cores and not even one P-core since the new E-cores overclock better than the crappy new Arrow Lake P-cores do. It is the hybrid/tiled/chiplet/fabric nonsense that sucks the most. Rubbish.

I think they don't have enough to sell is the primary issue. But, this isn't the first time we have seen this from Intel, AMD or NVIDIA. Being sold out isn't an accomplishment when supply is insufficient to meet demand, not to mention that is fosters scalping and overpricing. I think in this case they might have anticipated the decreased stock turbo clock speeds, poor overclocking and lower core/thread count and removal of hyperthreading would be poorly received by many and the poor availability could be a calculated and deliberate move to avoid having excessive stock sitting on store shelves. Since they have farmed out the chiplet/tiled abortion to TSMC they need to be even more careful that production doesn't outstrip demand and force them to lower prices or sell product at a loss.

You are looking through rose colored glasses with that HEDT hexachannel beast. 4-DIMM DDR5 may improve a little bit, but it will always be inferior to 2-DIMM, frustrating and a waste of time. Predictable. Nobody wanted or asked for the slower tiled turd CPUs. Almost nobody gives it a rat's ass about the efficiency and laughable overclocking. AMD has a big head start selling chiplet crap and they've been doing it long enough to prove it to be an inferior approach overall, so Intel is peeing into a headwind while pissing off almost everyone that preferred their brand in the process. Seeing them do this tiled/fabric nonsense in spite of seeing how it turned out for AMD isn't exactly confidence-inspiring. I wonder if they haven't sold any because they don't have any to sell. I find it hard to believe nobody in Germany would not buy it if it were available for purchase. Being inferior has never stopped some people before, even when they are in the minority in terms of acceptance. I could see some valuing the Z890 platform more than the downgraded CPU product lineup. Then there are guys like Wendell at L1 saying how good Core Ultra is because of the good compute performance and massive power reduction, only lackluster performance because of Winduhz 11 (no thread scheduling issues on Linux). He has praised the same power efficiency thing about Ryzen and preferred them because they pulled less power. Clearly not an overclocking enthusiast, but at least his perspective remains consistent.

Have you had the opportunity to install and test the 285K from Provantage yet? Or was it delivered while you were on a trip? (Curious what the 285K SP ratings looked like. I will check to see if you already posted it.)

From what I have seen on oc.net that is better than many. Not a lot of examples yet, but SP ratings are all seeming to be low numbers so far. Probably makes more sense to look at voltage values on the VF curve.

Based on the limited sample size I have seen, it looks like that might be a good one. Even though the design of the new tiled CPUs and low core count leaves a lot to be desired, the Z890 platform seems to have a lot of things going for it.

@Talon https://www.overclock.net/threads/intel-core-ultra-9-285k-arrow-lake-processor-24-cores.1812877/ 285K for sale on oc.net (new, sealed) if you're looking for one. Hi Brother John. Nice to see you. I look forward to seeing what you can extract from that CPU.

There seem to be none in the US. At $630 it is a grossly overpriced ripoff on a downgrade. It should be priced the same or less than last gen 24 thread, not same as last gen 32 thread. They're probably counting on the newer is better early adopter people to jump on it at any price no matter how absurd, because that is how silly people roll, rather than pricing it based on logic and equity.

This does not seem too far fetched to me. Micro$lop wants to sell their scummy disposable e-waste Surface turdbooks with soldered RAM and smartphone CPUs in them. Why would they give a rat's butt if the newest AMD and Intel CPUs worked correctly? The dumb-dumbs at Micro$lop do not care about Intel or AMD, and probably not NVIDIA. And, since most brand new computers run on a Winduhz 11 platform now by default (all prebuilts on top of what silly people elect to use for an OS) they essentially have no skin in the game and do not need to care if new processors function correctly as long as their cancer OS is the platform that gets chosen for it to run on. It is interesting the AMD was usually the brand hindered the most by sloppy OS coding and now that Intel has a glued-together mess they are having optimization problems, too. It also gives Micro$lop the power to decide what OS gets updates to make the new CPUs work right. If they do not want an AMD or Intel CPU to function correctly on anything other than their latest trashy OS they get to decide whether or not to provide an update for anything else. Better for them if the new tech is broken without their latest malware OS.

I think one of the problems our industry is suffering from is unfortunately a problem with AMD, Intel and to some degree NVIDIA. None of the people making design and engineering decisions are true overclocking and performance enthusiasts and most are probably not avid gamers. NVIDIA is probably not as badly disconnected with the gamer community as Intel and AMD have proven to be, but they're all out of touch with overclocking enthusiasts. They release things that have some redeeming qualities that general consumers might find useful. But "features" that overclockers, and probably most gamers, do not care about and find unimportant or even counter-productive as it relates to their passions. Then they label it as "for gaming" and insinuate it is suitable for overclocking endeavors when it isn't actually great at either thing. In the case of X3D, good for gaming, but not great for many other things and poor at overclocking. Now the tiled mess from Intel. This happens because the people that made it are clueless, out of touch or ignorant as it relates to overclocking and/or gaming. So, it uses less power... well, whoopty-doo.

Wow, that would be a really hard decision. They both have their pros and cons. The black Apex Encore looks better by a lot and something about it seems better in ways difficult to pinpoint. That being said, I would keep the white Apex if for no reason other than I can use all of the NVMe slots without cutting the GPU back to x8 because there are no Gen5 M.2 slots. I really like being able to use the M.2 slot above the GPU and I cannot on the Encore because the idiots at ASUS made it Gen5.

I think I am good for now. Four very nicely binned Raptor Lake CPUs running like a Swiss watch. With the SA bug gone now the 14900KF SP106 in the Apex Encore CPU is functionally near identical to the wonderful 14900KS SP108 that I bought from @tps3443. Raptop Lake CPUs in the Z790i Edge (13900KS SP112) and Z790 Velocita (14900KF SP102) I am good to go for now. No need for a more efficient CPU crippled by no HT and a lower thread count.

I'm not sure if it's actually a lot of people or if it's a small group of the same talking heads talking a lot more than they usually do. I have seen numerous people comment that they've cancelled their pre-orders because the 285K is a downgrade. I have never seen this many disappointed and salty people emerge during an Intel product launch. And it is justified. But the only way Intel is going to get the message from this is if they get punched in the nuts so hard they can't stand up straight for two weeks. These namby-pamby pathetic turdbook grade CPUs need to be rammed so far up their butt that surgical extraction is required. One of the things I like about Intel fanboys is there is seldom any hesitation to bite the hand that feeds them. Being preferred doesn't exempt them from hate-fueled wrath or ridicule from their biggest advocates.

No I cannot. Either one of those sucky companies would utterly ruin everything Intel stands for and then AMD would have no competition and become even more complacent. This would literally destroy the entire industry. I cannot identify any technology company that I loathe as much as I hate crApple. They're literally worse than poop splattered under the rim of a public toilet. Nobody would ever have anything nice again from Team Red or Team Blue. Even the thought of it is about as ridiculous as the elderly woman that lives next door to me buying Walmart or Amazon. I don't know. There isn't a whole lot there to be tempted by. Pretty disappointing. It seems like they did not even make an effort to do anything right. I do love the ASRock Z890 Taichi OC Formula, but that doesn't mean much if the best CPU you can buy to install in it is a disappointment. If there is a refresh for Arrow Lake and they correct some of their poor design decisions, at that point I might seriously consider it. The reduced core count and P-cores that can't handle more than a about 100-200MHz overclock is a non-starter. They need at least 32 threads or it is a downgrade. I'd even settle for the idea of 32 E-cores and no P-cores on a monolithic chip because it seems like Arrow Lake E-cores overclock beter than the P-cores do.

It would be interesting to see what the gaming results would look like and if they would be more consistent if it is possible to disable P-cores in the BIOS and run only off of the 16 E-cores. @Talon will the BIOS let you disable all P-core and use only E-cores? If not, maybe try Process Lasson and associate only E-cores with a game executable and see how performance changes?

The 2 bin overclocking and limitations on the P-core for Arrow Lake, combined with the castration (no HT) make this release completely unacceptable and unforgiveable to me. Yes, 4-8 bin overclock of more E-cores is the lesser evil to me as well. But, my preference would be something that is actually awesome rather than a half-baked piece of crap like they have provided now. If we wanted half-baked crap there were already options available to settle for that before Arrow Lake. And, I don't care what they want to call P-cores and E-cores as long as they perform up to my expectations and there are enough of them. If they do away with hyperthreading then they need to double or triple the core count of whatever they decide to use. Mixing the core types is idiotic and unnecessary. They should pick one and go with it... make it all it can be. It is like an oxymoron to call something "Performance Cores" and then not provide enough of them to actually perform. It is kind of sadistic and hyperbolic to call something "Performance Cores" and then have them suck at overclocking and not provide enough of them to actually deliver meaningful performance.

Better to get saved by the baby cores than left for dead, LOL. If there was a 15th Gen Core Ultra with 32 baby cores on a monolithic die and no tiled nonsense I would probably consider going that route. The P-cores look like they're garbage this go round. Beautiful new home, Brother T. Very happy for you and your family. I hope you build a lifetime of wonderful memories in it. Papusan Plaza is looking nice! Maybe they will listen to all of the unhappy people and release a refresh with proper quality P-cores and bring back hyperthreading. If not they should go with 24 P-cores or 32 E-cores and stop doing a idiot cocktail of both. They are taking a TON of crap from very unhappy and angry customers and reviewers, so they can't claim ignorance. If they do not have a second generation CPU line that is just going to make the people that moved to Z890 more angry than they already are. The Z890 motherboard platform has a lot going for it, but the CPUs leave a lot to be desired.

It is sad that our world revolves around so many agenda-drive bald-faces lies. It has never been harder to find truth in what we read and hear and assuming everything we read and hear are lies is actually a best practice. Politics, science and medicine... less relevant than ever and built upon fabrications and misrepresentation propped up by the media lying machines. This is really dangerous. Keeping big pharma rolling in money is all that matters. https://youtu.be/aUWSlsivFhM

That is really good. You need to buy an AIDA64 key, bro. You get updates for however long you purchase support but the key lasts forever and it works forever after the period of support for included updates expires. Updates don't matter unless you purchase hardware manufactured after the version release date. And, unless something has changed you can manually download a newer zip version and extract it over an old version with the support period expired and not lose your license. Just no automatic updates after the support period ends. I always only use the zipped version. It's totally portable. I do not use the installer version of any software like this (AIDA64, HWiNFO64, CPU-Z, GPU-Z, etc.). Portable apps are always best. And, most portable apps are buy once (if not totally free) and use it forever. https://www.aida64.com/downloads/MGY1ZmE4MGU=

I almost think the CPU would have been better with 32 Atom cores on a monolithic die and no P-cores since you only get 8 with no HT and they have no overclocking abilities to speak of and the baby smartphone cores overclock better. Then there wouldn't be any glued together tile chiplet crap. Huge mistake for them to involve themselves with TSMC as well.

ASSzeus is becoming famous for being stupid. They do many things wrong and many things that make little sense. The only Z890 board I would buy if I were buying one is the ASRock Taichi OC Formula. It is also comical that so many companies are making motherboards that are grossly overbuilt compared to Z790 for CPUs that are crippled and incapable of taking advantage of the power delivery design. I guess they think they will come out ahead by offering VRMs and phases that would be needed for a CPU that pulls two or three times the power that Arrow Lake is capable of. A wasteful excuse that justifies charging inflated prices for stuff not utilized.