electrosoft

Before a major update enabling what is effectively "Gear 3" for AMD, AMD memory clocking was limited to ~6000-6600 and a proper ratio is tied to FCLK (1:3) and MEMCLK (1:2). This is basically Gear 2 for AMD and was new territory for Intel with 11th gen offering 1st gen Gear 2 albeit on memory that couldn't handle high enough frequencies to make it make sense (aka DDR4) so you stuck with G1 like their previous CPUs. These are carryovers from AM4 with a bit of enhancements for AMD. Now we can effectively open up DDR5 to 1:4 and 1:3 and hit the same memory frequencies as Intel. Let me pre-empt this by stating outside of posting big fancy bandwidth benchmarks, I really haven't seen anything major gains wise in what is effectively G3 (4? 🤔) (since by nature it runs G2 aka 1:2 MCLK:MEM natively. AMD doesn't run 1:1) for AMD with the ability to scale memory up into Intel range. I posited this many months ago when the new memory mode was announced but untested and that it may take next gen AMD 8000 series CPUs or later to really take advantage of it like Intel does with 12th-14th gen and even then Intel leaves a nice chunk of real world performance on the table as you scale past 7200 but still yields tangible gains especially compared to AMD in real world (IE not synthetics) testing. Real world, both scale pretty badly but this will improve with time. AMD just does it worse atm. AMD right now is in Intel 11th gen G2 mode in regards to their G3 and taking advantage of high speed DDR5. It is there and it works but can't really utilize it properly yet outside of throwing up bandwidth numbers showing the memory is indeed running at and processing the expected number of MT/s. 6000 is the "sweet spot" in regards to the natural ratio of AM5 (MCLK:MEM 2:1, FCLK:MEM 3:1) and all IMCs able to hit it 99.99% of the time depending on memory configuration. Almost all AM5 chips can't keep a proper ratio past ~6400 (2133 fclk) on mem and many top out at 6200 (2066 fclk). You can run it async if you want out of the 1:3 ratio (mclk 1:2). Running memory below 6000 is gimping your AM5 platform and at the very minimum this is what you shoot for and tighten your timing as much as possible. My fclk tops out at 2066 but I found testing 6000 up to 6200 sync and 6600 async that 6000 super tight sync provides the best performance that is actually utilized. Still, I'm glad it's there because eventually we will see meaningful performance gains if not this generation then potentially next as it is here to stay....same as Intel where hopefully Arrow Lake can better utilize all that bandwidth DDR5 has to offer than Alder or Raptor. I still need to pick up some competent 8000+ sticks to play with between both my AMD platform and MSI Z790i Edge 2-dimmer + 13900KS. I just haven't done the ground work or asked @Mr. Fox and @tps3443 what are their current flavor of sticks. 🙂

I know breaking down a loop is a PITA, but you're going to need to swap in another to test and/or just send it off to MSI but I would definitely order an identical board from Amazon for their return policy to test out and see if all those little problems go away. Luckily, you and I own the exact same board so you can see it is capable of running just fine even having played around with 3-4 different memory kits, 3 different GPUs and 2 CPUs. I believe it is pronounced: ******MEGA GAMER!!!!****** Only like this can you get +50% on core and +2500 on memory.... ZOMG!!!1111 🤣

I have not had any of the problems you're encountering with my X670e carbon. 😞 I picked it up open box from Amazon Warehouse and it has been rock solid from day one. I would pick up another identical board and see if the problems go away because it might not even be the motherboard (but most likely). If the new test board works fine, RMA the original. If the problem(s) persist, move onto other components (CPU, mem). Have you tried other memory in there? Set everything back to stock (especially memory)?

GN especially gives no quarter with companies. I had no idea EVGA was boxed into a corner even moreso with AMD than Nvidia in regards to being control freaks. In AMD's defense, their 5000 series chips were not nearly as robust as Intel's offerings in regards to overclocking but that may give insight into why EVGA didn't want to bring an AMD GPU to market either. Invest all this time and money only to have to butt heads trying to be different for razor thin margins? No thank you. Go smaller, control your own destiny with no control freaks and just make peripherals and some build components. I've been a fan of MSI ever since their series of 1722 laptops way back in the day. I remember they had a member of MSI on the NBR forums where you could get hard to find or not on the normal market parts for their laptops for all of us that were modding and OC'ing them. That's when I added them to my list of "will buy" vendors. With EVGA exiting the MB and GPU market, for me personally it is MSI and Asus for MB and MSI for Nvidia GPUs. For AMD GPUs = Asrock and Sapphire. MBs = MSI and I'm curious about Asrock MBs. I had washed my hands of them after their Z300 series Taichi's were garbage but I'm always open to redemption since their 6000 and 7000 series GPUs are so well built and have led the market in robust designs across the last couple of generations. Very nice, especially that CPU score!

Best bet if you pick up an EVGA Z790 is to get an EVGA 4090 to assure optimal compatibility...... /s

I'm sticking with AMD for my main rig right now. If this time next year 8000 series drops and Arrow Lake isn't bringing the high heat, I'll just slot in an 8800X3D or 8950X3D and keep on truckin' When I say I've had zero problems with this build, that is exactly what I mean. Such a good experience after the 5800x debacle. I'm glad I gave AMD another chance along with MSI as I was running a Tomahawk x570 on that rig. I've been running this AMD rig for 6 months now. I keep fighting the urge to jettison the 4090, pick up a 7900xtx and go full on AMD (and pocket the difference). I keep an Asrock Taichi 7900xtx in my Newegg saved list to check daily. 🤣 tl;dr AMD all the way** **As always, I reserve the right to tuck tail and jump ship with head held low at any time because that's just how I roll. 🤣

Jay is giving up and abandoning his 7950X3D system and going back to Intel with a 14900k build (time stamped at justification).

lol, well I opted for their "My Best Buy Plus" $49.95/yr program for the free expedited shipping AND generous 60 day return policy. I had picked up one of these back in March but returned it pretty quickly due to so many issues. That was BIOS revision G306 (G301 being launch BIOS). The one I picked up in late August was Rev G317 and subsequent BIOS updates to G318 and G319 fixed a lot of the problems but the Armory Crate BS just did me in. Plus with 14th gen and 4000 series mobile refreshes on the horizon and hopefully other 7950HX3D enabled laptops coming out, it made sense to return it and sit back and wait. I haven't been really gaming much lately. I actually pulled out my MSI Suprim X Liquid 4090 to run some tests and benchmarks on some other cards for baseline comparative data I have and haven't even re-installed it yet. Problem is we've become a full data mining society and that data is worth billions and is a constantly evolving dynamic construct that produces a perpetual revenue stream. As a result, every company now wants to find ways to force or at least strongly suggest you install their software which in turn will gladly collect your personal data as much as they can and then resell it at worst or use it for their own gains at the best. I mentioned it before, but when Asus purposely went out of their way to remove persistent effects on their motherboards where they worked fine before with a BIOS update that was just more writing on the wall. When companies tie software as tightly as possible to peripherals that shouldn't need it or at least the peripherals should store the settings, the writing is on the wall. When M$ has mutated their OSes into store front, data collection, bloated behemoths, the writing is on the wall. No longer satisfied with selling a quality product and support software that enhances the product, companies now look for ways to get their software on your system so they can collect your data and if possible, get you sign up for subscription services. "X as a service" is greedspeak for, "You don't own this product. You license it and if you want upgrades or continue to use it, you will pay fees for it and....oh yeah, we're going to continue to mine your data.....sometimes even if you click 'no'" Just disgusting behavior. I did, but it won't enable the CPU turbo/power mode and it was stuck at 115w still. Fan controls worked. G18 also supports OpenRGB. I tried setting and uninstalling both AC after enabling turbo mode but shut down and restart and the system goes right back into default mode of 115w for the CPU. If you want full functionality and performance, you HAVE to have Armory Crate installed. Hopefully with newer updates it will gain access to higher power states. I know back in March, OpenRGB did not support the G18 but now it does for RGB control. Either way, being forced to have to install their bloated malware was the final dealbreaker. I finally gave up the ghost on your 12900k after delid, the below adjustments and UV couldn't tame it and admitted defeat and put my cool running, low pull SP91 in there and your 12900k in the wife's desktop. Choice silicon along with a -0.125 / -0.65 UV, removing the retention bracket and doing a pseudo direct mount and some strategically placed auxiliary copper heatsinks, the CPU no longer throttles in CB23 or testing WoW for 30-60 min which would always run the temps up to 100c. Now they don't break 86c and if I set fans to max don't break 80c. I didn't even delid it. On the other hand, the system overall pulls 200w now just running CB23 and caps out running Timespy at 237w with the 230w PSU in HWInfo since there is no thermal wall to throttle it. It's ironic and funny, but when I first picked up that 12900k back in Dec 2021 from Newegg while binning several, it stood out immediately from the rest for running so stupidly cool with such low pull to boot. I even commented on the old NBR forums about I hope Clevo, MSI or Alienware drops a 12th gen DTR because it is screaming for a laptop with its characteristics..... .......and ~22months later here we are. 🤣 Hopefully I'll get a crack down the road with this SP115 13900k in the NH55 since it can run full throttle on a 280mm AIO, hit ~42k and stay in the high 70s/ low 80s with no delid just KPx. It may need that aftermarket heatsink. That is what I liked about Prema on the P870 series the best and it looks like the X370 harkens back to those "everything in the BIOS" days. No need to run Clevo Control for anything. I don't run it on the NH55 either. Just TS 9.6. @jaybee83 while a retention frame won't work, you can remove the entire retention lever mechanism and just use the HS direct pressure to mount giving you some of the thermal advantages of a retention bracket (IE, no bending from the original mounting system). I did this and it helps while taming a full bore 12900k in there.

Hollow gesture. China will unofficially get the GPUs one way or the other. I just returned my second Asus G18 (13980HX + 4080) a few days ago to Best Buy. I'll wait for the next wave of laptops to see if I'm going to snag one. My NH55 is holding it down for me right now along with being tinkering central. I couldn't stomach having to use Armory Crate to enable full package power for the CPU and GPU. Without running Armory Crate and setting to Turbo, CPU capped at 115w and GPU around 160w. Bios undervolting still capped to -0.080 and none of the normal Asus BIOS goodies.

It turned out pretty much like I thought it would. If you have a 13900k or ks, hard pass unless you're into binning chips. 🙂 You are going to encounter some cross over with substandard 14900k's and really good 13900ks both frequency and memory IMCs. Definitely cheaper but that doesn't help if the IMC sucks or if it fails to OC as far as a 13900ks in the 5.9ghz+ club. Still, on average, I expect it to be better than 13900ks. ------13900k------ ------13900ks------ -------14900k------ It will be fun to see the data rolling in over the next several months especially with some choice gem silicon lottery specimens float to the top. Just like the 10900k was pushing 14nm+++++ to the edge and we didn't see a 10900ks, I think there's a very good chance we won't see a 14900ks but you never know. The real winners are those who are building out new systems or upgrading 11th gen or below. They get to step right into 14th gen.

14900k vs 13900ks is really going to come down to silicon quality yet again and the disappointing MC on that 14900k shows there will be nothing special there too. It is also at the mercy of the silicon lottery. If I had a 13900k or 13900ks, I wouldn't upgrade unless....UNLESS....you like binning out CPUs and fishing for killer bins both clocks and memory. I always like the first 2-3 months of new chips as the data comes rushing in and we get clarity on how they stack up bin wise. 🙂

New BIOS for MSI X670e Carbon I installed it and looking around it seems MSI lifted the +25mhz PBO cap and tightened up manual OC options a bit. My previous memory OC tuned works fine. I'll play around with it and the potential + PBO boost cap vs manual OC over the next week or so. @Raiderman

Hmmm, I just checked Best Buy on a whim and out of the 9 models they carry they are out of stock on 6 of them so there might be some validity to a shortage. They are completely sold out / no stock of all the $1600 models. The few Gigabyte models they have are all up in price to $1700 and $1750 now. Out of Newegg's 18 models shipped and sold by Newegg, 8 are out of stock and the lone $1599.99 model they carry (PNY) is out of stock. Interesting....

De8auer crapping all over 14th gen.... Please note when he shows the chips side by side you can see thermal residue on both so you know he is speaking from a position of having already tested it and I suspect tomorrow's results are going to show big 'ole nothing burger but on the positive side Intel keeps the pricing the same and gives you a nice bin up from 13900k -> 14900k at no increased cost so I see no problems with this refresh. If you're a new buyer who was going to get a 13900k you now just get a 14900k for the same price and carry on with a very modest performance boost.

AI has become the new catchphrase. A few years ago, we would simply call this, "smart boost technologies" or similar but let's see what AI can bring to the table in regards to extracting more exacting performance from CPUs based upon each CPUs characteristics. I have yet to encounter boosting technologies that I was not able to transcend and eek out more performance above and beyond what they can do. I have no problems with companies implementing auto enabled technologies that allow The Average User (TAU) from getting as much performance as possible from their purchased product automatically. That seems to be very pro consumer ....even if it is because Intel is locked in a massive battle finally with AMD so they need their chips to perform as well as possible and AMD was to market first with it extracting the bulk of the performance each chip could provide automatically.

Nice step through all of Asus's refreshed Z790 motherboards so you can really see the differences between all their motherrboard offerings. She goes over each board from low to high in detail if you're looking at Asus for your last hurrah build outs:

That's not bad on an air cooler and a POS Z690 motherboard. It's about what is to be expected. Once he gets his Z790/DDR5 combo (with what I will assume are stronger VRMs) and re-assembles his custom loop it will fly.

I noticed the newest versions no longer support many G.Skill modules including two sets of DDR5 I have. That is probably the reason why it was disabled or removed potentially. Xfinity ruled the roost here and still does to a degree. Fiber is rolling out ridiculously slow and Xfinity's pricing was atrocious along with data caps but suddenly when T-Mobile started offering unlimited Internet up to ~400-600mbps for ~$55/mo they suddenly dropped all their pricing in the mid to lower tiers drastically and made it unlimited. We're going to need Fiber to roll out here for the 1gbps+ packages to drop even further. They keep trying to tie you into all their legacy packages including a land line. I actually cut the cable a little over a year ago, cancelled Xfinity outright and switched to T-Mobile for 3-4 months and was getting 300-500mbps down, 50mbps up and saving almost $200/mo compared to my Triple Play BS. I went to the physical store to cancel and turn in my DVR and CM and when the CS asked what he could do to make me stay with them I said, "Give me unlimited 400-500mbps Internet for $50-60/mo" and the perplexed look on his face said it all as he said, "there is no way we can match that but if you sign up for Xfinity Mobile we might be able to offer a package deal that would bring that into range. How much do you pay for your Cell service?" I said, "$100/mo for 4 lines unlimited everything." And he just smiled and said, "I'll go ahead and cancel your Xfinity service." Right about 3 months in wiith T-Mobile, Xfinity shifted their pricing and bombarded me with "come back please!" and just like that they had a package that matched T-Mobile but obviously with much better latency than 5G so I switched back but only for Internet for $55.99/mo and here we are. Honestly, I don't feel much of a difference between my old 1.2gbps and 500mbps 99% of the time unless I'm installing a new game and even then I just set to download, minimize and go do other stuff. They give you a "free" Xfinity streaming box with all tiers of their Internet packages that basically is a glorified version of their DVR and you have to pay for everything to enable services on it. It has been sitting in my cabinet gathering dust since day one hook up when I realized it was just a means to try and get you to sign back up for their classic packages 2.0. I like being able to select which streaming services have enough content for me to turn back on for X months till the well runs dry and I can turn them back off. For example, AppleTV has been off since Feb. I just turned Paramount+ back on after 6 months. Netflix has been off officially for a year now. I'm getting ready to turn Disney+ off and let it build back up. I turned Peacock off last month and won't turn it back on till sometime next year. I do keep Hulu for Fox and ABC.

Newest version of OpenRGB supports many Asus systems and peripherals. Give it a try first for controlling RGB before installing AC garbage. I found with my Asus G18 it even supports it now so I could avoid AC completely. Only downside in classic Asus fashion is you NEED to have AC installed to enable full CPU turbo mode or you're capped at 115w....thanks Asus. I avoid Bios enabled AC and MyAsus and manually download drivers so I can pick and choose not only the drivers I want but the order of installation. Usually when you update your BIOS these conveniently toggle back to "on" you know....for your convenience. 🙄 Only after installing all my drivers and manual installs do I enable Windows update to pick up on anything I might need along with updates.

Unfortunately the F is cut down both hardware and BIOS wise a bit versus the E. 😞

I've always braced my GPUs since Ampere. I even have my Suprim X Liquid 4090 braced. Safety of course but the OCD part of me cringes at a sagging GPU. MSI and Asus follow the card / serial # not the user so their warranties transfer too. I just RMA'd a Ventus 3070 to MSI no problem third hand. Took three weeks but they sent me a new card. Outside of that, you're SOL for warranty transfers and you're at the mercy of the original buyer helping facilitate a repair or the OEM having mercy on you (good luck).

Ask and you shall receive! 🙂

Compared to the previous generation, it is definitely bad value....but not *as* bad so "suck it up and buy it" (Jensen mantra). I still think the 4070 and 4090 are the "not so bad" values out of the entire lot. Luckily at least AMD is putting some pressure on Nvidia to keep them somewhat honest in the lower tiers. I don't know what EVGA is doing but they are definitely focusing on the higher profit margins now both in products offered and shortened warranties. They could actually turn bigger profits overall focusing on high margin peripherals like Corsair. Maybe start to offer other items too. Motherboards and GPUs are tight margins and especially motherboards are lower volume items.

Looks like EVGA has removed all their GPUs from their store front except some 2060s and 700 series. They are also no longer selling directly mainly it seems but have links on their product listings to their product partners (mainly Newgg, Amazon, Microcenter, Canada Computers, Memory Express and Best Buy). Some B-Stock items are available direct No more customized shirts, mouse pads, etc... E1 case is gone. Z790 Dark isn't available anywhere but Z790 Classified is via....you guessed it...product partners. They are all about the PSUs, KB/M and coolers (in that order) now it seems.

The gap between the 4080 and 4090 is significantly larger than the 3080 and 3090. You will get a card right dab smack in the middle with 20GB of memory for $1199 and like it (Said in Jensen's voice 🙂 ).