electrosoft

Ugh...lol I was hoping it contained a pair of anti-crocs to consume the crocs..... Apparently it did not contain the anti-crocs as I so hoped for, but at least it contained some hardware goodies. 😁 Oh no.....and it spreads. 🤣 "The Walking Crocs"

What make is it? Throw it up in the for sale forum as detailed as possible with pics and I'm sure you will get some offers.

Does it exhibit the same behaviors at complete stock? It might be buggy (wouldn't be the first time) or it might be rooting out mild little instabilities in overclocks somewhere.

100% spot on. This can not be overstated enough when you're really pushing your memory regardless of CPU platform. When the new gear settings were announced, I posted quite awhile back even calling into the equation motherboard quality as a factor now with frequencies so high along with what real world results we would actually see which so far outside of benchmarks seems to be low/limited for AMD but hey take every bit you can get!

Jufes doing fully tuned, 13900ks vs 7800X3D with tuned memory and OC'd 4090 vs 7900xtx swapping them between platforms to boot.

This would make sense as Fallout 76 with the Creation Engine absolutely loves dual ranked ram too. Just switching sticks from M-die single rank 2x16GB to A-die 2x32GB resulted in a ~13% increase in performance both at 6000 on the 7800X3D with similar timings. I then tightened up the A-die's even more for a ~15% increase overall. Which sticks did you get exactly from g.skill? If Asus progresses like they did from the Z690 Apex to the Z790 Apex with their memory, the Z790M Apex should be a monster and what Intel couldn't do in overall frequency bumps they poured into a much better IMC with 14th gen.

Asus Matrix 4090 unboxing preview.... (no benchmarks). Definitely visually pleasing but I want to know how it performs.

When I find someone's argument has lost logical cohesion and/or it is getting personal, I just stop responding and move on. Many times I have something to say but I choose not to and reserve my brain pan for better pursuits. It's ok to not engage. It is also ok to not need to have the last word. I still consider them my "net friend" and no hard feelings. It is just that the current thread is headed in the wrong/non productive direction. I've adopted this approach for well over two decades now across all platforms and have recently double (or tripled) down on this the last few years and it has worked wonders and made social media so much more fun to use. Notebooktalk is like the kiddie pool compared to the vitriol and rancor that is Reddit and Youtube comments! 🤣

Shirt was the first thing I peeped before even noticing it was Alex.... I don't know if that's a good thing. 😂

*Lol* I'm glad it came free with my 6700xt purchase. 🙂 I haven't had time to really settle in and play outside of an hour or two. Other game stuff, work stuff and project stuff but I'll eventually get in there and play through. It took me a full year to finally play the last Deus Ex. I figure with patches and driver optimizations it can only get better.

Very nice video showing Starfield and memory and CPU tuning / overclocks with 5800X3D, 7800X3D and 13900k. It also shows DDR4 vs DDR5 on 13900k differences from low settings to tighter tuned memory and higher frequencies (up to 8200 tuned for Intel, 8000 for 7800X3D, 4100 on 5800X3D). DDR5 has really come into its own and those early days of DDR4 having pockets of superiority are rapidly drying up. The performance gains can be pretty substantial depending on system tuning. He also shows 7800X3D with memory from 5600 up to 8000 and what I suspected is showing in that 6400->8000 shows hardly any increases in game for AMD (near margin of error results).

Right now, Nvidia is king. You are seeking some type of rule, competition or consumerism to thwart them pricing their items as they see fit? Rule = I definitely do not want the government stepping in unless they are breaking a known law or a true monopoly. Having ~80% market share isn't it. Competition = Tell AMD and Intel to step up their game. It isn't Nvidia's fault they are still so behind. Consumerism = We've covered this already. Free will and buyers can buy what they want based upon their own criteria. A buyer is free to purchase from any of the three or just go buy a console. The market is working as intended. They don't have a monopoly simply because they have the superior product. What they do have is superior market share because of their superior products. Now, if we find out they are using strong arm tactics like Intel did years ago to try and thwart AMD from being sold by Dell and other OEMS/VARS or similar thug like actions, that's another story and is completely unacceptable and they should be punished appropriately.

Yep, I always said AMD is no different and if they were in control of the Golden Rule they would extract as much value out of their products as possible as we saw with AM4 and 5950x pricing. If they suddenly had the dominant GPU, those prices would go through the roof. Brett sums it up nicely here (timestamped for your convenience):

I'm not seeing that as a worthy upgrade. 7900xt 20GB is a hard no and the 16GB capped 4080 is even worse. Stick with your 3090, get 4090 or get a 7900xtx. You get the 7900xt with less vram and basically 3090 raster performance for a game which has sloppy Nvidia code and/or AMD optimizations (Sponsored by AMD) just launched which will undoubtedly get refinements which could go...well...any which way. I would just wait a few months and see how things pan out patch/driver update wise THEN decide if you want to get a new GPU. If... IF you are going to upgrade, grab a 4090 or 7900xtx. Since you say you're never spending more than $1k on a GPU ever again then the answer is pretty clear: 7900xtx. If you go with a 7900xtx, make sure to get a model with max power limits since I assume you're going to block and OC it. Tier 1 favs for me are Taichi, Nitro+, Devil. Id pass on the Phantom and Elite. You can flash the Aqua Vbios on the Taichi and maybe some of the other cards but it might require a programmer for the initial Aqua Vbios flash then you can flash the Aqua Super/Extreme Bios if you want. Blocked and chilled, you would definitely be able to extract some righteous performance from it. If you go 4090, sky's the limit as you just basically get the most powerful, dominant card on the market but it also costs quite a bit more and grossly exceeds your $1k threshold. Best bang:buck is seriously the 7900xtx especially for Starfield atm.... But I suggest taking @Papusan's suggestion:

I lost faith when my original cable failed but I know I would have yanked it early on when burned connectors started popping up. I don't blame MSI for not repairing a card with a burned connector using a third party adapter. I'm ok with the four pronged Tentacled monster of power. 😂

You definitely picked the best 7900xtx of the group IMHO. It is the one I would get (and keep it in my basket on Newegg). I'm really tempted to give it another looksy 8 months removed from my first go around with that XFX 7900XTX (4X gonna give it to ya!) edition Whew, those sticks are still ~$250. Let me know how much you're asking. I'm sure if you picked up a 7900xtx you would block it so fast....lol. Plenty of blocks available. Liquid Devil is close to the Asrock 7900xtx for best VRMs and board design. I believe it only has one or two less stages.

How they choose to conduct business is their prerogative. Nvidia isn't the first nor will they be the last company to purposely make one of their products look like a poor buy to push consumers to another, more expensive one. It is a well known marketing strategy. They are not the first to have overall ridiculously high profit margins. They are in the business of making money while advancing technology. They are the GPU market crown jewel at the moment and they know it and will capitalize on it as much as possible. The golden rule is in full effect. The consumer then reviews their product line and decides what fits in their budget and if they want one of their GPUs or perhaps go elsewhere to AMD which has a pretty nice overall product stack of their own. Like I said, no one is forcing anybody to purchase one of their products. If they choose Nvidia in the end, I would not be so arrogant as to think they are being selfish or myopic just because their criteria is different than yours. As noted before, we can see Nvidia reacting to market conditions and competition with the 4060ti 16GB and I am sure down the line the 4060ti 8GB may be re-positioned price wise in light of the 7700xt and even the 4070 re-positioned to compete directly with the 7800xt. No, I selected capitalism specifically to zero in on corporations (Nvidia in this instance) not the idea of a free market. While they do share many same values, they are not the same: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042215/what-difference-between-capitalist-system-and-free-market-system.asp Jensen is technology and profit driven above all else including us enthusiasts. Shocker. 🙂 News flash: So is AMD and the vast majority of corporations out there. Agreed. Welcome to humanity. See, I actually try to push AMD products even initially skipping the 4090 and trying to go with the 7900xtx but it was a poor performer (Scroll back to January 2023) so I returned it and picked up a 4090. I main rig'd a 5800X and now a 7800X3D. I picked up a 6700xt over a 4060ti for my ITX rig. It has been well known I have a soft spot for them in my heart and always have and I've used their GPUs and CPUs quite frequently over the last 20 years. My main GPU during Turing was even a 5700xt anniversary edition for over a year. If your theory is paper calculations show they are relatively equal in rasterization performance but the discrepancy and vast majority of benchmarks and reviews that show the 4090 is clearly superior overall in rasterization (and then basically everything else) is based upon software and/or Nvidia dev optimizations then I believe you are in error. Feel free to support your theory with hard evidence outside of tech specs on paper. I'm always open to change my mind when presented with hard evidence.

This and more. When I had my 7900xtx it was decent but with RT on it equaled my 3080. Pure raster it was about 26% faster than my stock 3080 10GB which wasn't cutting it for WoW 4k Ultra. I figured you would use AB/RTSS w/ benchmark capture and since your hardware is fixed, determine a repeatable save spot run of your choosing and scale frequency without changing timings from your 8800 settings down in 400mhz increments down to 5200 as initially it would be a pure frequency test and see how much it changes. If you really want to get indepth with timings vs frequency maybe pick a sweet spot for your memory (6000-7200) that really lets you tighten up even more so and test 6000, 6400, 6800, 7200 with loose vs tight timings. You can then bar graph it or screen shots (or both) to see how much frequency matters with everything else fixed and OCd. 1080p, 1440p, 4k. But anything you want to present would be awesome since your system is so OC'd I'm sure for a large bulk of upper end resolution results it will be GPU bound. The most important thing is to have everything remain absolutely consistent (Turn on the chiller!) as possible while yanking your memory to and fro.

This and more. When I had my 7900xtx it was decent but with RT on it equaled my 3080. Pure raster it was about 26% faster than my stock 3080 10GB which wasn't cutting it for WoW 4k Ultra. I figured you would use AB/RTSS w/ benchmark capture and since your hardware is fixed, determine a repeatable save spot run of your choosing and scale frequency without changing timings from your 8800 settings down in 400mhz increments down to 5200 as initially it would be a pure frequency test and see how much it changes. If you really want to get indepth with timings vs frequency maybe pick a sweet spot for your memory (6000-7200) that really lets you tighten up even more so and test 6000, 6400, 6800, 7200 with loose vs tight timings. You can then bar graph it or screen shots (or both) to see how much frequency matters with everything else fixed and OCd. 1080p, 1440p, 4k. But anything you want to present would be awesome since your system is so OC'd I'm sure for a large bulk of upper end resolution results it will be GPU bound. The most important thing is to have everything remain absolutely consistent (Turn on the chiller!) as possible while yanking your memory to and fro.

I would definitely try the 4400 sticks to remove that as a bottleneck and see how far you can push the 5800X3D keeping IF:FSR 1:2 intact. The good thing is that while your CPU will give up the ghost at 3800-4000, you can then tighten the timings on those sticks to really dial them in with the 5800X3D. 3800/1900 was routinely the cap for the bulk of AM4 chips with some dips into slightly higher frequencies. Some could hit 4000 but they basically had golden IMCs. I know my 5800X capped out around 3866 IRC on known, good B-die sticks even in a SR 2x8GB config to lessen the load on the IMC.

Bethesda and their Creation Engine is a great example of the blessing and curse of the 3D cache model. Creation Engine 1 and ES5 along with Fallout 4/76 was a blessing as it was extremely single threaded but more important, instructions and assets were so much smaller since it was basically using a ~12yr old engine that everything could sit in the cache and performance was greatly bumped. Even now, I'd recommend a 5800X3D or 7800X3D system for Fallout 3/4/76. Creation Engine 2 has been massively overhauled and upgraded in regards to multithreaded support and more importantly much larger asset and instructions per thread handling and it clearly can't sit in the cache in a large enough or meaningfully way to impact performance to a major degree. We can see this as the 7800X3D is ~10% faster than the 7700X. I'd like to look more indepth in the 7950X3D vs 7950X and their near identical scores as this may be a case of massive thread utilization and problems with some being on the cache enable CCD and others not or gamebar issues. I'd like to see Lasso at work there just as a checksum. Based on how Starfield feels and plays, they clearly masively overhauled CE1 probably the same way Blizzard overhauled their WoW Engine to modernize it but it still has its roots in its original 2004 design. I'd like to see how some tight 3800 on a 5800X3D along with an optimized PBO and/or CO deals with it but there obviously won't be any miracles to close that massive gap (108fps vs 65fps) I'm sure we'll revisit this months down the road as patches, and upgrades and optimizations (oh my!) are implemented and we may find the 4090 properly moving ahead along with the gap between AMD and Intel CPUs closing.

Whoa but yeah the smallest (or not so small) deviations when running such tight tolerances can derail your setup. See: MSI AIO clogging debacle. I had the same happen to my Hyte R3 13900ks setup and out of the blue crashes and run away temps and I finally had to abandon that chassis. I'll put up a post later about what happened.

HUB confirming What GN found about CPU performance in Starfield....it is a very heavy CPU influenced title and Intel rules the roost. Especially the 5800X3D just gets wrecked.... Seriously, Starfield loves Intel CPUs....that has to be a weird win some / lose some for AMD who sponsored the PC version. (Eyes the SP115 13900KS sitting on the shelf in the MSI Z790i Edge motherboard atm doing nothing) Memory findings in line with GN meaning much smaller gains going from 4800 -> 7200 (but again, I'd like to see 7600 or 8000+. Maybe take a looksy at memory benefits @tps3443 and let us know).

Yep, looks feels and plays like FO4/76. That's not a bad thing. I was able to jump right in. Graphics are clearly updated and I expect many hours of fun when I can fully dive in. As for performance, Steve and GN did a CPU Benchmark/Bottleneck video with a 4090 and a checksum top end with the 7900xtx to show where CPUs give up the ghost. He also did some memory scaling (after the Buildzoid video) showing not much is gained from 6000 up to 7000 (~2fps) but I would have liked to have seen some 7600 and 8000+ testing just because.... This game seems to really like Intel 13th gen CPUs especially 13700/13900 and clearly outpace the X3D models including 7800X3D, 7950X3D and especially the 5800X3D. Dropping resolution down to stupid levels (720p) shows not much of a difference between the 7900xtx and 4090 CPU wise. ~4fps but forcing the 13900k into a bottlenecked situation still shows the 7900xtx winning vs the 4090 at all useful resolutions (IE, resolutions and settings that can force a CPU bottleneck).

I'm focusing on top tier pricing for those who want the best referencing @tps3443 post but this is absolutely true. I still stand by my assessment that the 4070 and 4090 are the only two viable cards price wise in the line up this time around but if the 4060ti 16GB somehow falls to $399.99 it isn't a bad pick. It is an expensive hobby because laws of diminishing returns are grossly in play for the top end same as if you want a Ferrari over a Camry or first class over economy. To be the best you pay the best sometimes crazily so. Nvidia isn't ripping anybody off. Nobody is forcing you to purchase their GPUs. This is a capitalistic world. You look at the product and determine if you want it or not at the price offered based upon your own criteria. All Nvidia can do is offer their goods at their selected price points and let the consumer decide. I don't subscribe to the nonsense that consumers don't know what they're doing. They're making educated purchasing decisions based upon their own purchasing power, preferences and buying criteria. Their preferences and criteria are allowed to be different than yours. It doesn't make yours right or theirs wrong. I never said or intimated there is nothing that can be done. As always, you vote with your purchasing power. Enough have spoken to let Nvidia know their pricing is still acceptable. When it is not and/or they feel enough competition/threat they will adjust accordingly as we just saw the 4060ti drop to $430 with AMDs announcement of their 7800xt along with lackluster sales. Hopefully we see more of this. Just for clarity before proceeding, architecturally speaking, you are claiming the 7900xtx ~= 4090 in raw rasterization and the 4090 overall wins because of software and optimizations? I remember skipping the Voodoo because the Verite was still a relatively new purchase for me so I needed a cooling off period before pulling the trigger on another upgrade! 😄 Games like Fallout 1 and 2 and Arcanum I played back then along with Quake didn't need 3D acceleration. WAY back in the day, I did have a Gravis joystick! 😄