electrosoft

It could be the worst product in the world, certified and most always sell out on launch for at least a month or so and then supply catches up. Next thing you know, there is an abundant supply and then the prices trend down. Some just can't wait. They have to have it NOW NOW NOW. Some are even willing to overpay by a pretty disgusting amount versus wait a few months at most. I will never understand this mentality. I'm definitely not writing the 285k off by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just taking a wait and see approach while I finish selling off some hardware (75% sold off by this point) and hunker down for the potential 5090 pricing onslaught if I decide to pick one up. I think even in its best light down the road, the 285k will at best beat the 14900K/KS stock for stock in many if not most productivity applications and if they can sort out scheduling/latency issues it will trade blows in gaming. We've already seen it beat every CPU, including X3D, in Starfield so the potential is there. I'm of the mindset it can only get better as we continue to explore the CPU and learn its nuances and quirks along with Intel , MB makers and M$ continuing to provide updates. It is new enough and different enough that it is definitely on my radar for a pick up as I'll have two clear workbench cases itching for something in them sooner than later. My curiosity lies with APO+WoW along with those Starfield results and how that would translate to Fallout 76 performance improvements and subsequently general tinkering and some chip/memory OC because that's fun.

Nice! Patiently waiting for you to get your mitts on a 285k bro! 🙂 Even delidding is now a more complicated process with the new tile/chiplet design for 285k:

BRO! That looks fantastic and I love the seclusion and location! Congrats 🙂

Yeah, I've officially decided to sit back and wait till Jan/Feb at the earliest if I decide to tinker with a 285k while a lot of the bugs/issues/problems are fleshed out. It will also let us clear the air for SP/bins as right now it looks like it is a reset of Alderlake SP ratings (giving newer chips on the same socket room to grow) and we're back to Sub 80s being bad and 90+ being good and probably ~96+ being golden. Prices will also come down a bit too. Hmmm, in hindsight this is what I did with 13th and 14th. 🙂 It will also give Intel a chance to clean up APO a bit with some more updates. This also gives a big window for 9000X3D chips to flex and see what they bring along with potentially getting ready for the 5090 seeing as it would cost $1300+ to get a 285k+MB+proper mem and we have no idea how much the 5090 is going to be. Final straw is this 14900KS is just running SO dang smooth @ 5.9 all core w/ APO on 24H2....I'm going to give the wife's system a clean 24H2 install and get APO up and running on her 12900k this week because she plays WoW even more hardcore than I do (crazy). She's been hooked since September of 2020 during the Pandemic and looking for a new game to play to pass the time....WELP....she found it! 🤣 One thing I see Jufes do is spin around real fast to cause the AMD chips to chunk. I could do that with my 7950X3D in certain areas that were asset and computationally heavy especially raids even only running the single X3D CCD. That is basically gone now with my setup.

You say this like it's a bad thing lol.......

This is a strawman or at the very least moving the goalposts. 🙂 I'm talking about brute power overall. You're talking about latency, responsiveness, smoothness and OS snappiness. With that out of the way, you aren't the first to note these new tile/stacked and/or hybrid designs seem to inject a bit of hesitancy and responsiveness degradation into D2D operations vs older monolithic designs. I will say when I've had to use older laptops or desktops, the desktop itself seems to be a bit snappier and smoother even if the chip itself is much weaker versus newer designs in computational performance. I prefer monolithic designs too but I understand limitations and embrace change and try to look at the big picture. AMD and ARM embraced a chiplet/tiled approach because of limitations. AMD even extended it across their GPUs. Intel was up against a wall with limitations. Ultra 200 is the first step in overcoming those limitations and they are just going to get better from here on out. Even Nvidia is rumored to be eventually going chiplet based. It is the future of computing and it is what it is. All we can do is hope refinements allow us to have our cake and eat it too.

Hmmmm, surprised to see the 285k top even the X3D in Starfield. X3D is a monster in Fallout 76 and Starfield uses the much improved engine version used in FO76. I'm very curious to see how the 285k performs in FO76 since the 4090 is perpetually bottlenecked by the CPU in there and the 7950X3D dominates in that game.

It doesn't really matter in the quest for Multithreaded scores/benchmarking. A score is a score is a score. If 1 P-core and 23 E-cores swoop in and take the record of fastest CPU for multithreaded consumer level workloads, so be it. 🙂 Falk also uses an AIO. So AIO, not delidded vs Mora + delid. Bin will only get you so far depending on what you seek. slightly sub ~10% uplift on P-cores is nothing to scoff at. I personally think eliminating HT will pay dividends long term but that remains to be seen. I do agree E-cores got the majority of the love this time around vs P-cores. It is a tinkerer's chip IMHO. Again, Rocketlake 2.0. For those questing for monster multi scores, there is a lot to like with it and room to grow. For gamers? I'm cautiously optimistic considering how 14th with refinements and APO was able to pull ahead of X3D quite comfortably in lows and smoothness of play. Now we're starting to see some good stuff. This is why I didn't just dump all over it and call it a wrap. I wanted to and will continue to watch the OC'ers start to learn their way around it and start extracting real results as BIOS/Windows updates/MC/Drivers slowly work their magic on what is a brand new chip architecture. It can only go up from here. I hope I don't pull an 11th and talk about how I'm gonna wait and see then suddenly a few days later show up on this thread like over on NBR with an MSI z590 board and a shiny new 11700k to play with. 🤣

Might come down to cooling and skill too. Is Falk's delidded? As always, gear, silicon lottery always in play but what we DO know this early on is 50k is achievable on a non chiller nor DD depending on chip quality. Imagine these CPUs fully opened up delidded, DD, chilled and with continual incoming BIOS refinements.

Looking at Sugi's numbers, 285k is hitting 50k in CB23 already basically out of the block with some tweaks. Delidded but not even on DD yet and using a Mora 420 not even a chiller. Not to shabby! That single core score is pretty beastly too! Unfortunately it's gaming prowess is going to be a game to game thing and things are not looking good atm overall. For me, I think I'm going to sit back a smidge (same as I did for 13th and 14th) and watch and wait before I do anything.....why? I spent a week+ swapping back and forth between my 7950X3D rig and 14900KS rig playing a crap ton of WoW and the 14900KS @ 5.9 all core, 8200 tuned w/ APO was just superior in every way especially with the lows and smooth game play. Any and all occasional chunk I would hit (I'll begrudgingly admit it might be a bit of "dip") with the 7950X3D was just gone with the end game 14900KS setup. Having logged 30hrs+ on each setup running the same raids/questing/PvP, the 14900KS once tuned across the board is the superior answer. I would swap my 4090 back and forth with a clean install of 24H2 running the same raids and TWW outdoor content and the fluidity and game play was just superior on the 14900KS. That is why I sold off the 7950X3D and X670E Carbon. I can't envision the 9800X3D or 9950X3D providing this as smooth of a gaming experience in WoW but I'm always open to change. 🙂 I am to a point now, playing WoW, where I say back last night and just went, "I don't see why I need a 5090 or a CPU upgrade," and that has never happened in tandem. If I do buy a 5090, it is just pure leisurely fun. After I finish selling off the rest of some of this gear (we're in the homestretch!), if I pick up a 285 setup, again, it will be for pure tweaking and optimizing fun. If somehow it can bring the pain for WoW, I would as mentioned before just swap it into the wife's system and run the 285 as my main. I agree. Seeing Sugi's numbers this early on with what is a good CPU (His SP=91, for example Debauer was using an SP=75), I think this is going to be a tweakers paradise chip especially with DLVR disabled and switching more to a normal approach for overclocking. Memory is coming out of the gate hitting nicely too. It is Rocketlake 2.0 in what I feel is an ok way.

I figure things can only go up from ground zero launch as the kinks are worked out. Alderlake launch was just such a monster improvement over 10th and 11th even from launch maybe we were expecting too much. 😞 11th gen all over? Ugh, let's hope not I say this having enjoyed 11th gen tinkering. I probably binned more 11900k's than any other chip lol. Definitely looking forward to your 285 work @Talon.

Probably, but I'll wait for the final data moreso in games than CB23 especially early memory results and room for growth.

I'm waiting for the real deal..... BRING ON THE 285! 🙂

Yeah, I'm still waiting but I sold off my 7950X3D and MSI x670E Carbon to open up a "what if" slot for a 285 if I like what I see. Still have the 7600x/Prime B650/6000 Mdie 2x16GB combo to sell off. Right now: If 285 is a go, sell off the rest of my 12th/13th/DDR4 stuff, move my Asrock Z790i+14900KS into the wife's system. Pick up a Z890+285 for my main rig. If 285 is a no go, ride the 14900KS till next gen (Zen6/16th gen).

Good to know a variation of ye ole Nintendo Cartridge boot process is still alive and well..... 🤣 Oh man, this thread would have been filled with some serious fire and brimstone from you if you made that purchase! Ugh, this is NOT what we wanted if you enabled DLVR. Personally, I think this is part of a knee jerk response to the whole 13th/14th response and over compensation to make sure there are no more vmin shifts, mc code problems and other issues. Ugh..... Remember when 13th dropped and the new battle cry was, "memory OC is the new Meta?"....Prophetic....

I've got it queued up to take a looksy later. I spent the bulk of last night pulling my AMD hardware and switching my main rig to the SP109 14900KS setup. 5.9 all core and Intel APO w/ World of Warcraft is just a game changer versus the 7950X3D on the 4090. EDIT: Just watched it. It will be interesting swapping back and forth between your 3175 and 13900ks systems with the 4090 and various games to see what you get across many scenarios/locations.

So what is your main rig now that you sold off your SP108 and traded Apex+8200 kit and some other goodies?

Yup, I've been saying it since mid Summer! 🙂 Enhancements everywhere but performance. Hopefully it will pay dividends for 16th. My big issue is 15th gen still looks to run pretty hot and heavy and that's without HT if some of those "unlocked" MSI slides are valid which I would tend to think they are. Me thinks a little bit of removing HT was because it would run just as hot and heavy, if not more, than 14th.

Jufus predicting 285k is DOA for gamers and basically Rocketlake 2.0 (which I had already claimed lol):

Maybe they tested some of that "secret sauce" in the Asrock Z790i Lightning since it is a beast for a really good price.

Whoa.... I just don't see how this can be possible for a consumer level card, but Nvidia is all about AI atm and with AMD bringing absolutely nothing to the table next round to compete, maybe Nvidia figures why not? Worse case scenario, those will just go to the AI sector for even more $$$. If that is the new pricing going forward for the flagship/halo product, that has effectively priced me out and I will ride the 4090 for another generation and adjust down accordingly in the future. I still say the 5090 will be $1999 starting and even that now seems crazy priced but if the 5080 is roughly half its price for $999 and can still trade blows with a 4090.....

This and the last microcode updates seem to have fixed a lot of SA/memory issues down the stack. My previous 12400 which topped out at 3333 now runs 3600 no problem on DDR4. I was updating the 12400 box for resale/listing on fleabay and on a whim just decided to set it to 3600 to see if it yet again would black screen and boom, it boots and passed TM5 90 min no problem. Also Finally got around to installing the new microcode/BIOS on the Z790i Lightning and recertifying everything. CB23 newest BIOS = 35k. Just retesting my 8200 and 8400 profiles first then go back in and fine tune some OC/clock profiles to see where it lands.

Agreed. I am still holding out to see what Intel brings to the plate, but it will have to be something meaningful. I had fun with 11th but a lot of it was the iterative rehash of skylake that had dragged on for far too long (6th->10th) and it was something new and different. I don't know if I have the $$$ and patience this time to do it all over again for minor gains. Then again, I'm not expecting a barn burner from 9000X3D either but I could be pleasantly surprised on both fronts. I'm slowly starting to list and divest myself of a lot of my hardware. Just too much laying around and I'm not doing backflips for the next gen. Listed a few systems already. Got a few more in the weeds to list. Listed my 7900xtx for $725 shipped ($800 on fleabay soon). Up next is my golden 4090 for $1850 ($1950 on fleabay soon). Like I said, whichever one sells, I'll ride out the other. Might list my 7950X3D and ride my 14900KS to 9950X3D. Still have some 12900k chips to list and a few laptops. Just nothing is exciting me atm. I think I might be a bit.....bored? 🤣

I'm still going to wait to see it in the hands of those who know what they're doing before passing judgement. 14th gen has had the luxury of almost two years of tuning under its belt. And I have yet to see day one reviewers get anywhere close to what the OC community achieves within even just a few days let alone a few weeks or a month. We're either going to see a 10th->11th gen scenario (Not much of an uplift overall in games and in general but still there) or we're going to see an 11th->12th gen scenario (massive uplift once tuned). My biggest concern is if this socket is a stopgap one off to Intel's real deal for 16th gen. Something like this where 10th->11th was marginal but 11th to 12th was massive: